19 KiB
Anyone has Legend of Korra / The Last Airbender recommendations?
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Author: u/CouteauBleu We are the Empire.*
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/7p08jo/anyone_has_legend_of_korra_the_last_airbender/
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Score: 48
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Created: 2018-01-08T17:51:31
Post:
I'm a pretty big fan of the universe; Legend of Korra in particular seems like it would be ripe for a rational rewrite:
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Under-explored flawed hotheaded main character
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Tons of fascinating worldbuilding
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Promising but ultimately flawed villains
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Lots of politics where no side is clearly right or wrong
Does anyone know good Korra rational-ish fic that explore these themes?
Comments:
u/Ozryela [+52] (4 hours later)
Hydrogen. Helium. Lithium. Beryllium. . Tennessine. Oganesson.
Long ago, the 118 nations lived together in harmony. Then everything changed when the Fire Nation attacked.
Only the Avatar, master of all 118 elements, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he vanished.
A hundred years passed and my brother and I discovered the new Avatar, a nitrogenbender named Aang, and although his nitrogenbending skills are great, he still has a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone.
But I believe Aang can figure out what the heck is up with those fire benders. I mean fire is not even an element. And how do they do that lightning thing. What's that got to do with fire? I really hope Aang can figure that out. Oh, and save the world.
u/Sarkavonsy [+21] (6 hours later)
And then the crossover with canon double-recursive fanfic.
u/Trips-Over-Tail [+13] Death of Crabs (4 hours later)
For generations the Arsenic Dominion ruled with world through fear and terror. But when separatists of the remote Plutonium Schism stepped forward with their New Way, the Balance of the world was truly shattered.
Only the Avatar can restore Balance to the World Table. But can he truly beat the Plutonium Schism with the techniques of his own native Hydrogen Combine?
u/None [+9] (18 hours later)
[deleted]
u/ABZB [+5] Count of Real Numbers (20 hours later)
DO IT I WANT TO READ THIS SO MUCH NOW
u/None [+2] (21 hours later)
I can give it a try, I'll report back in half a year and tell you whether or not I’ll actually get it done.
u/None [+2] (22 hours later)
RemindMe! six months
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u/NebulousASK [+2] (8 days later)
with the rarer oxygen benders being paid more for the same job obviously
Somebody needs to address the bender wage gap.
u/None [+2] (4 hours later)
I'd read that!
u/SvalbardCaretaker [+18] Mouse Army (6 hours later)
There is a great Zuko centric fanfic somewhere on Fanfic.net - found it! https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5398503/1/Embers
Been a while since I read it! But hasa ton of really great background details based on canon facts, fantastic worldbuilding.
We follow Zuko in his exile as a prince, and what would happen if he was not as consumed by demons of the past - Zuko is more powerful, plans more, looks out for his people and has more powerful allies. While Aang is still an airhead and screws everything up with his good intentions. Zukos rants at Aangs stupidity are quite entertaining.
u/Alphanos [+12] The Bright Powers (9 hours later)
I've seen Embers recommended frequently. I tried it and could not enjoy it. I felt like it took a really interesting concept, adding nuance to the ethical situation of the people involved in the Fire Nation war, and took it to bizarre extremes. Suddenly all characters in the world agree that the Fire Nation is noble and just, while the Avatar and his few supporters are selfish and evil.
I could understand if this was shown to be the perspective of characters on the Fire Nation's side of the war. But from what I read before I gave up, the author seemed to be attempting to present this as the objective reality of the story, seemingly due to being a Zuko fan and wanting to make Zuko into the world's principal protagonist.
u/Kachajal [+10] (15 hours later)
If I recall correctly, the fic took the cartoon conventions from the show and brought them to logical extremes.
It argues that Aang's technically a pacifist because he doesn't directly kill, only lets people die after putting them in a deadly situation. Which, just, c'mon. That's ascribing some immense stupidity to him and everyone who follows him.
Those fire nation soldiers Aang floods off Zuko's ship in the first episode? They froze to death in the water. That sort of thing pops up again and again, and it did ultimately make me stop reading the fic.
The idea was interesting, and there were some actually decent arguments for the Gaang's lack of responsibility, but the fic rode a relatively small detail - that was pretty clearly meant to make the story work in a children's cartoon format - pretty damn hard.
u/CouteauBleu [+12] We are the Empire. (a day later)
Yeah, I've seen fics that do this kind of thing, and I never like it.
In canon, the idea is that characters never accidentally kill anyone in combat (unless it's part of an arc about how some character is reckless and ready to endanger civilian lives or something). So those fire nation soldiers Aaang throws in the water are perfectly fine. This isn't meant to be realistic, it's meant to be an abstraction: the characters don't kill unless they want to; people do die in the war, and clearly characters like Azula can and do kill people on occasion (offscreen).
You can move away from canon, and go for a more realistic "there's no such thing as a nonlethal weapon", but then you have to update all your characters accordingly, not just your protagonists. So either Aang accepts that sometimes killing your enemy is inevitable, or he goes the extra mile to keep them safe (fish them out of water, or even get them medical attention) and is torn apart whenever doing that conflicts with his greater goals.
Keeping Aang's actions the same while changing the consequences of these actions technically is "bringing conventions from the show to logical extremes", but it feels dishonest to me. I think this is an area where the "If you give Frodo a Lightsaber, Sauron gets a Death Star" principle applies for me. If you make a character more able to detect the setting's inconsistencies, then you have to make the setting more consistent in response; else you're not making a good rational fic, you're just engaging in "I'm right and everyone else is insane" power fantasy.
u/Kachajal [+2] (a day later)
In case it wasn't clear, I completely agree. What you're saying mirrors what I was thinking while making the post pretty closely.
u/adad64 [+3] Chaos Legion (2 days later)
I thought it was just Aang not realizing how deadly arctic waters can be while Katara and Sokka assumed he meant to do it. It wasn't that Aang wasn't a pacifist, it was that he was too naive.
u/Kachajal [+1] (2 days later)
Yeah, if it happened once and lead to character development once someone pointed out his mistake to him, I would've been alright with it.
Instead, if I recall, this sort of thing happens again and again, with nobody in the Gaang wising up. That's just idiot ball, plain and simple.
u/Kishoto [+3] (a day later)
Hmm. I...disagree. Lol. I'm down to elaborate more if you're open to the discussion but it's fine if you'd rather not.
u/Alphanos [+2] The Bright Powers (a day later)
Sorry, but it's been too long since I attempted to read that story for me to be able to discuss it in any detail. Mainly I just have the vague impressions I was left with.
I'm glad that you enjoyed it =). Feel free to post your thoughts on the story if you think I gave people an unfair impression of it.
u/Kishoto [+2] (a day later)
No worries, I understand.
And the reason I disagree is because isn't that kind of the point of rational fiction? To take the conventions of a story and extrapolate them out to their logically consistent conclusion?
HPMOR did this with tons of HP lore that was definitely meant to be there to simply enrich the story, as opposed to being consistent/accurate and it was lauded for it.
Metropolitan Man does this with Superman by throwing in all of the side effects we rarely see in the main stories, such as the political implications, the fact that Lois and Lex are perplexed by his 9-5, etc. Superman being Clark Kent was all for the purpose of story; it was to make him relatable and human, for all that he was not.
Pretty much every ratfic out there is guilty of this; of taking elements of a work that were simply put there to aid/enrich/brighten/enhance/insert adjective here and deconstructing it. So it's a bit unfair to accuse Embers of doing the same thing.
It's also worth noting that the soldiers Aang tossed over didn't die but they definitely came pretty close to it; that's why Zuko was so pissed. Not so much because Aang attacked his soldiers; they were on opposing sides and Embers!Zuko is big on honor and all that, but because of how innately hypocritical his actions are. He claims to be a pacifist and not want to hurt/kill anyone yet throws tanks off of thousand foot cliffs and bonds with a spirit to kill hundreds, if not thousands, of Fire Nation soliders (And it's worth noting that Embers characters, for the most part, looks on using spirits in war the same way we look at using nukes which, if you've seen the end of Book 1 in canon, is a pretty damn accurate comparison)
Again, Zuko's main issue isn't that Aang killed (or tried to kill) so many of his people, though I won't say he's pleased about that. He's angry at the sheer hypocrisy of Aang's ideals based on his actions.
u/None [+2] (11 days later)
that hypocrisy only exists because the author tried to make a setting with more realistic consequences without altering the actions of any non-Zuko characters. If canon Aang lived in a world without cartoon physics, he wouldn't throw people off cliffs or into freezing water. Or if he did, he would treat it seriously, like he did with the Koizilla incident in canon. Basically the author insisted on the Gaang adhering to the Stations of Canon when it wasn't remotely rational in context.
u/batracos [+1] (12 days later)
But Aang is not rational, nor he's meant to be. Both in canon and in Ember. He is a young kid, raised by monks and never exposed to violence and its consequences, who thinks that others kids are the same as him while (in the fanfic) they come from a place where surviving requires killing (animals) and mad and dangerous people are left to die on the permafrost. His friends never feel they have to correct him as they too think he must know the same reality when in fact he does not. It's a much more realistic take on cultural clashes, I think.
u/None [+3] (12 days later)
He's naive and immature, but also wise and genuinely concerned with the well being of other people. Ember exaggerates one side of his personality and downplays the other. It takes away all his virtues and then turns around and bitches about what an awful person he is. When I say his actions weren't rational, I don't mean "he acted irrationally," that's a given, I mean it's not rational to write him acting that way.
u/ToaKraka [+3] https://i.imgur.com/OQGHleQ.png (a day later)
I personally found the perpetual Katara bashing to be a very novel and refreshing perspective. It reminded me of a Harry Potter story (I don't remember which one; it wasn't a particular stand-out, IIRC) in which Hermione was portrayed as a mean know-it-all who actually did deserve to have no friends.
u/Kishoto [+1] (a day later)
No one is saying the Fire Nation's actions are just and noble; what they're saying is that the Fire Lord was nuts and the nation had to follow along with it, for the most part. Even canon does this, showing us more and more that the Fire Nation is just that; a nation. With all kinds of people. But most of them just want to live their lives and be happy as opposed to burn down the world.
No one says Aang is evil. Aang is definitely treated as childish and selfish but, canonically, that's exactly what he is. Especially considering the fic starts at the beginning of Book 2, before a lot of his character development. He's also treated as ignorant and naive which...he is. And that's not a bad thing or unexpected; he's a twelve year old monk from a century in the past. It would be more shocking if he wasn't a fish out of water.
Zuko is definitely the main protagonist of the story but he is by no means the world's principal protagonist.
u/GrizzlyTrees [+3] (9 days later)
I feel like Embers is in some ways like korra, flawed in character while having immense potential in setting and worldbuilding. If anything, maybe it needs a rational rewrite as well.
For those who haven't managed to get through it, Embers has an expanded worldbuilding to TLA, with major focuses being spirit interaction (and old conspiracies), international politics, and cultural differences. I think a lot of the fic is pandering, and the gaang characterization is bad, but the worldbuilding is really good.
u/ABZB [+7] Count of Real Numbers (20 hours later)
I was bothered that there is no faction seeking the obvious solution - make everyone a bender somehow.
It's happened before - all we need to do is lots and lots of science, and possibly Orochimaru-level experiments on Benders and the Avatar and Spirits.
u/MrControll [+14] SG-1 (2 hours later)
Promising but ultimately flawed villains
I agree with this one SO strongly. Amon in particular should have been a much bigger deal than he was in cannon. Sadly, I do not know of any such fics.
u/AmeteurOpinions [+10] Finally, everyone was working together. (9 hours later)
Amon could have been even scarier than the fire lord, a threat for three seasons. Should have been. I was so mad at how it turned out.
u/Psychobeans [+22] (11 hours later)
Blame Nickelodeon for that, they kept changing their minds on how many seasons the show would get, so the writers had to make sure each season was a proper ending in case they didn't get another.
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
Better than getting a season without a proper ending IMO.
u/CouteauBleu [+5] We are the Empire. (19 hours later)
I would love a fic from the point of view of one of Amon's or Kuvira's minions, in a "I don't know if their cause is just, but they'll defend my home and my family when no-one else will" style.
u/Akiryx [+5] (59 minutes later)
I wish, I really want one.
u/Nuero3187 [+3] (6 hours later)
Eugh, would it be off topic for me to rant a bit about the many problems I think Korra has? I want you to know them if you're going to actually make a fic, because... there's a lot.
And I don't just mean story problems, or character problems, no those could be fixed. I'm talking about some problems with the setting itself, and how little it makes sense.
u/CouteauBleu [+5] We are the Empire. (6 hours later)
Wait, really? I thought mostly everyone agreed that Korra was "awesome setting, okay characters, terrible story and storytelling".
u/Nuero3187 [+3] (6 hours later)
Woof. Ok, do you want me to just get into the things most likely pertinent to your fic, I.E. the problems with the setting and backstory, or would you prefer I really go all in on my problems with it(characters mainly, I'll try to hold back on story criticism because it really doesn't matter if you're making a rational fic)? Because I could do either, but I don't want to go too off topic if you don't feel like it OP.
u/None [+8] (6 hours later)
I want to hear everything, even if OP doesn't! Go for it!
u/Ardvarkeating101 [+1] Father of Learning (22 hours later)
Give us all you got!
u/ToaKraka [+2] https://i.imgur.com/OQGHleQ.png (7 hours later)
The three reviews that I've watched (or, at least, the ones I remember watching—I think I may have forgotten one)—The Mysterious Mr. Enter's one video on Season 1 (53 minutes), E;R's four videos on the series in general (89 minutes), and E;R's four videos on the Avatar Wan episodes in particular (103 minutes)—point out many holes in the setting, IIRC.
(After being thoroughly put off by the first three or four episodes many years ago, I never bothered to seek out any other episodes, so I have no independent opinion.)
u/Trips-Over-Tail [+3] Death of Crabs (8 hours later)
So you missed out on the spirit-tech WMDs?
u/ToaKraka [+2] https://i.imgur.com/OQGHleQ.png (2 hours later)
The closest I have is West Virginian Yankees in King Bumi's Court.
u/Tetrikitty [+1] (8 days later)
Burning Twice As Bright is pretty good, but deadfic.