24 KiB
[MK] The Great CYOA Munchkinry Contest
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Author: u/GaBeRockKing Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857*
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/7v2ee0/mk_the_great_cyoa_munchkinry_contest/
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Score: 17
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Created: 2018-02-03T21:55:00
Post:
note: this is a contest, so do not read spoilered comments until you're read, at the very least, the third section of this post.
For those not in the know, a CYOA (Choose Your own Adventure) is an image where either you make one of several choices (i.e., the pill CYOA of "And I Show You How Deep the Rabbit Hole Goes fame) or where you're given some "points" to spend on either setting up or having an adventure-- buying companions, abilities, enemies, setting details, whatever. (i.e., Worm CYOA).
Your task is to meta-munchkin CYOA's, but not in the way you'd hope. More on that later.
1.) Select a point buy CYOA that either happens in the real world, or has options centered around affecting the real world. (So if the isekai is about sending a hero to another dimension, it's disqualified.) /r/makeyourchoice has plenty, but there are others elsewhere. Be forewarned that if you just trawl the internet for CYOAs, you're pretty much guaranteed to find NSFW ones. You may use a CYOA that is effectively (albeit not explicitly) a point-buy CYOA, like 1997 CYOA, where you're expected to pick multiple options from a pool of options, which could be modelled as spending two points where items cost a point apiece.
- As a semi-exception to this rule, however, if a CYOA about going to another dimension has options that allow you to make the other dimension just like the real world, but with [x] you can treat that CYOA as directly modifying the real world. I.e., if you choose a CYOA set in an urban fantasy environment that's earth but with magic and a fantasy kitchen sink, on implementation, people and animals will be chosen at random to gain magic powers and to turn into elves/vampires/dwarves/werewolves. Expect massive, instant destabilization of the world order. But maybe that's your thing?. Magocracy would be an example. People would be randomly chosen to gain the relevant magical powers.
- Similarly, if your CYOA is a portal fantasy that explicitly includes rules for going back and forth between the "real world" and the fantasy world, that's also OK, providing you pick options guaranteeing permanent contact between the worlds. Magical Realm is an example, although picking Gateways[1] or [2], or Portals (with a control system guaranteed to keep making portals) would be mandatory.
- Also, you're barred from using meta-CYOAs and low-effort CYOAs (no choosing parody CYOAs that instantly break reality, please), as well as any meta-options in otherwise non-meta CYOAs. If you really want to, you could make your own CYOA designed to win this contest, but it must be high-effort (if you're going to put that much effort into it, you deserve to win.)
2.) Comment with the name of the CYOA and a like to it, plus a title for your plan. (This title can be whatever you want)
3.) In spoiler tags, add your choices for the CYOA, including point costs and your personal implementation. As a twist, though, you are only to post the choices that directly affect everyone rather than just you. You must post, for example "Immortality - Everyone [15 points]" or "Catgirls - 5% of population [5 points] catgirls don't have behavioral changes, just aesthetic ones.". You are not to post "Kickass Flamethrower - [1 point]all chrome and shit". This includes any drawbacks you choose, whether personal or setting-wise. You do, however, need to post the tallies for personal benefits and drawbacks, in the line of "spent 36 points on personal upgrades. Gained 12 points from personal drawbacks." Make sure to keep track of your personal options, though.
4.) Post what you intend to do with your newfound (personal) power, and what your intentions for our new, significantly more interesting world are. If you want to, lie like a rug. For example, you can say you have "bestow immortality" when really you spent the points on "mind control", or claim you'll reverse global warming when really you want to make greenland the new bahamas.
The twist to this comes from the fact that this is a contest. During one of the next three discussion threads over the next week (probably friday off-topic), I'm going to link each of the comments and a strawpoll with the titles of the comments, and ask the readers of /r/rational what CYOA plan they would most prefer to live in.
So while you can pick a CYOA that gives you kickass superhero powers, people aren't likely to vote for you (unless they're into that philosopher-king bit). Alternatively, while you can choose to be purely altruistic and choose options that make things fun for everyone, maybe that's not maximizing your personal fun. I know I wouldn't pass up the chance to have superpowers. On the third hand, you can choose "altruistic" options, but secretly intend to twist them to your own ends.
Finally, this is a contest, as inspired by /u/LieGroupE8 's contest post. But I will be a little more lenient than "if you peek you're disqualified." Instead, if you peek into someone's comment prior to finishing your own comment, you're no longer allowed to use their CYOA to make a plan. Otherwise, using the same CYOA is perfectly legal. I'll be posting a deliberately bad example comment a little after I make this post.
Comments:
u/GaBeRockKing [+3] Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857 (17 minutes later)
Below is an intentionally shitty plan meant to display how to make an entry into this context.
Godlike Power
CYOA: Magical Realm CYOA
[Global Choices (this spoiler intentionally broken):]#s "Demiplanes: Area Increase 2 [3 points], Planar Features: Gateways 1 [1 Points] (I'm going to place one gate in my home, and the rest in Belgium.), Population: Population Increase 2 [4 points].")
[Personal Choices Tally (this spoiler intentionally broken):]#s "Personal Benefits tally: 92 points. Personal Drawbacks tally: 0 points.")
Plan: Step 1: Become a god Step 2: invade Belgium Step 3: ??? Step 4: Profit.
u/ToaKraka [+4] https://i.imgur.com/OQGHleQ.png (38 minutes later)
(I assume that this is the meta thread.)
More examples of CYOA images can be found on 4chan (SFW and NSFW) and on r/makeyourchoice.
For those not in the know, a CYOA (Choose Your own Adventure) is an image where either you make one of several choices[…] or where you're given some "points" to spend on either setting up or having an adventure-- buying companions, abilities, enemies, setting details, whatever.
I feel the need to point out, in order to reduce confusion, that the new-fangled CYOA images have very little in common with the old-fashioned CYOA books (descriptions: AllTheTropes, Wikipedia) with which people probably are more familiar.
u/vakusdrake [+2] (an hour later)
Well I feel the need to point out the "obvious" (as in obvious once you've made literally hundreds of munchkined CYOA builds) exploit build for the linked magic realm CYOA. I've made a build for this CYOA before but deliberately ignored the singularity level tech option because it makes everything else secondary, here I won't.
As a meta point I'd like to say that while you can have a winner from a entertainment standpoint, from a munchkin standpoint there's liable to be many ties. Since many CYOA's can be exploited into both kicking off a singularity and getting a source of infinite energy/matter such that posthuman civilization can not only avoid heat death but continue expanding forever with no material restriction. So once you've got that level of godlike power then it's not clear there will ever be any other exploits you could hope to do which would unequivocally beat that.
Singularity Route
CYOA: Magical Realm CYOA
u/GaBeRockKing [+1] Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857 (2 hours later)
Just fyi, you forgot to tally your point totals for personal options.
Discussion spoiled because it might give hints to your strategy.
u/vakusdrake [+1] (3 hours later)
Just fyi, you forgot to tally your point totals for personal options.
I was just guessing that if I didn't include a section for personal options people would correctly assume that I didn't take any since.
u/GaBeRockKing [+1] Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857 (4 hours later)
since any details about non-person choices is presumed to be true right?
Anything establishing setting details is assumed to be true, as you're basically making a precommitment to fill out the actual CYOA like so. Nothing afterwards is guaranteed, however.
All that aside, everything in your post is legal; this is just me speculating about how the final vote will turn out.
u/vakusdrake [+1] (4 hours later)
On a related note I wonder about how fundamentally incompatible human values are, or at least the subset of human values you're ever liable to see from the groups likely to create GAI (that religious extremists have fundamentally incompatible values is unremarkable). As well as how many moral disagreements are rendered moot by nearly unlimited resources.
u/GaBeRockKing [+1] Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857 (4 hours later)
u/vakusdrake [+1] (5 hours later)
u/GaBeRockKing [+1] Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857 (5 hours later)
I did some thinking about it, and I realized why your scenario was rubbing me the wrong way (and incidentally, why I'd prefer your scenario to real life, but still can think of much less optimally munchkin'd scenarios that I'd rather vote for.)
[Unsong spoilers here if you've never read it](#s "Of course, an omnipotent final version of myself would likely copy UNSONG and start instantiating all universes such that good outweighs evil, and therefore "I" would get to experience all of the other CYOA options anyways. Though at this point you get to an interesting meta-level issue where, if the CYOA framework is powerful enough to bestow omnipotence, then even if an omnipotence-granting CYOA isn't picked, the fact that it could have been picked implies that we are ourselves being simulated by omnipotent, omnibenevolent beings at some level, meaning it got picked anyways. But recursing down the simulationist path just gets a little too meta to worry about, so I'm going to shut up now.")
u/vakusdrake [+1] (5 hours later)
Well to address your Unsong point first
[As for the rest of your comment:](#s " I actually basically agree with you, but I just didn't explain the implications of my scenario in enough detail. After all I think being limited in power is necessary for me to have a good time for however many millennia I want to remain a human level intelligence. But one thing about having nearly godlike power is that you can choose to put limits on your power. The way I would want to do this (and encourage others to do so) would be by creating an "advocate" a FAI who looks out for my interests, and relinquishing my power to them. Then they could use their superintelligence to figure out the best way to make my life extremely entertaining and whatnot")
u/GaBeRockKing [+1] Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857 (19 hours later)
Well it looks like a moot point, unfortunately, as no one else felt like participating :(
u/Kishoto [+2] (23 hours later)
I saw this comment and it made me sad so I decided to chime in, as someone who was somewhat intrigued by the title but quickly lost interest in actually participating, with reasons as to why I think this didn't see the success you were hoping for (it's worth noting that I'm not very familiar with this more modern style of CYOA)
I can't speak for everyone (obviously) but CYOA images do seem to be somewhat of a niche activity (which is not bad) and this CYOA contest in particular was narrowing that down to an even narrower niche, based on the rules and limitations you listed, at least from my understanding. In addition, the r/rational subreddit isn't very large. Combining all of those factors meant that the amount of people who would know enough about CYOA to participate, care enough about your topic to put in the needed effort to participate and are on this sub would be a very small amount.
I'm sure that's not really anything you don't already know but I still figured I would point it out anyway, just in case you didn't.
u/GaBeRockKing [+1] Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857 (23 hours later)
Yep. I think my problem was, in trying to mitigate the ability for CYOAs to just be endlessly munchkined, I went too far in the other direction and made the munchkinry uninteresting. It probably didn't help that I can be extremely long-winded when making posts like this too :P