27 KiB
[RT][HF][DC]The Last Sovereign - Deconstructing NSFW game tropes!
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Author: u/SierraLeeTLS *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/8advus/rthfdcthe_last_sovereign_deconstructing_nsfw_game/
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Score: 60
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Created: 2018-04-06T22:58:06
Post:
Hello, r/rational! I won't pretend this isn't a post promoting my (100% free) game, but I do sincerely believe it might be of interest to people who read rationalist fiction. A fan recommended that I post here, but just inform me if I shouldn't in the future.
The Last Sovereign is a game, not prose, but it's story heavy and so I hope it is appropriate for this subreddit. Many people have reported 50+ hours played as of the current version and the wordcount is in six digits (exact number is arguable because you'd have to remove non-plot text and duplicated text for different player choices). All sex is text-based and while there is no built-in skip, the text skip feature could fly past it pretty quickly.
The newest version of the game can be downloaded from its blog:
https://the-last-sovereign.blogspot.com
TLS is basically a deconstruction of certain genres of NSFW games, particularly those where including a bunch of sex overrides any kind of coherent world, logical plot, or consistent characters. This game attempts to construct the world that would be required for many of those tropes to exist, take them to their logical conclusions, and let the player fundamentally transform that world by frequently taking the third option.
Some elements I think might appeal:
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The real main character (not the first introduced) has many traits in line with rationalist fiction. Logically minded, Crazy Prepared whenever possible, and willing to search for unorthodox solutions.
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One of the main elements is breaking down false dichotomies. Good/evil to a degree, but in this world particularly lust/purity.
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Magic is not a mystical phenomena, but a scientific field of study. Exploring those mysteries that do exist is an endeavor similar to high end theoretical physics, and something relevant to both the characters and the plot.
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Attempts to reconstruct RPG tropes in a rational way. For example, there is a reason monsters carry money and a reason it doesn't destroy all economies.
That is not to say that this story is entirely suited for this audience. The effect may be less interesting if you're not familiar with the tropes of certain genres. In particular, I'd note that many of the antagonists made clear so far are explicitly irrational, for reasons related to the setting. There are rational antagonists, but they are smart enough to realize that they don't need to make themselves targets in order to accomplish their goals. However, if the general outlook of the game sounds reasonable to you, then it has a lot of content to offer!
If you think a description from the author is too biased to be useful, there are TV Tropes and wiki pages I had no part in writing. I will also be around to answer questions if there is any interest!
Comments:
u/None [+15] (51 minutes later)
[deleted]
u/HotDropMarble [+18] (an hour later)
While I'm not sure what your definition of a good eroge or good RPG is, I can guarantee that there is zero trash mob grinding in TLS. In general, each enemy appears on the map only once. Once you kill them, they don't respawn. This can make the game pretty difficult because you can't level grind your way to victory. Instead you have to learn the skill system and equip your characters carefully in order to win the harder fights.
It also forces you to make some difficult plot choices. If you skip that tough optional dungeon, you may be missing that exp gain until much later in the story, which can make fights down the road harder. But if you're not good at playing the game, you won't be able to beat the difficult optional dungeon right now.
u/None [+5] (an hour later)
[deleted]
u/HotDropMarble [+15] (an hour later)
Well, I think TLS fits your good RPG criteria. The game has a ton of choices and there are visible consequences (some permanent) to your poor or great decision making. Now, you can't take the main story off the rails, but you can cause some pretty significant ripples in how it plays out.
(Slight Spoilers)
For example, when you end up fighting in a war later in the game, all your previous choices as well as the tactical choices determine which battles you need to fight and who survives. Your previous decision affect which fights you get and which decisions you are allowed to make during the battle. And your in battle decisions will also contribute to your success/failure scores at the end. If your choices were really poor, you still end up winning the war, but it becomes more like a pyhrric victory and it can dog you for the rest of the game.
(Spoilers End)
The number of choices and the extensive combinations of consequences is actually one of the toughest parts about playing TLS for me. I love to be highly optimized in RPG's, but its almost impossible to perfectly optimize the game because of the huge interacting decision trees. I even spent a month of free time looking into the underlying source code of the game to try and map a "perfect" game, but in the end I gave up because of the difficulty.
u/Shi117 [+12] (an hour later)
Many many choices. They don't all branch, but rather most give +/- points to invisible stats the game keeps running in the background like "city stability" or "population unrest" or "siege defence" or whatever and when those bits come up in the plot the game checks for what score you have and things can change from there. Entirely made up example: you're under siege, after having spent time and money investing in building up the city. A siege def of +20= enemy repulsed with ease with massive casualties, future fights with them made easier and you can sally out. siege def 15-20=enemy repulsed and have to pull out of their planned next attack. siege def 5-10=enemy barely repulsed and immediately attack again. siege def under 5, they break through and you have to personally deal with the invaders while the city takes damage.
But the money you invested in the siege defence might have been needed for personal equipment, or sponsoring a religion or helping magic studies or w/e and you can't grind much so money is not limitless so time to make some decisions. Maybe a siege def score of 5-10 is worth it in order to get a better sword for that boss fight coming up, or maybe you accidentally overfunded the mages school before realising wait shit the walls need to be repaired.
u/Mercurylant [+6] (16 hours later)
I'll add another voice here, I'm active in the RPGMaker community, and while there are definitely people who have greater strengths in, say, artistic map construction, there's nobody I respect more in the field in terms of excellent writing and gameplay woven together, or in terms of sheer professionalism and pace of output.
u/SierraLeeTLS [+10] (an hour later)
HotDropMarble has done a good job answering many of these questions. I felt a JRPG was a good match for the type of party system and strength progression I wanted in the game - but as mentioned, grinding isn't possible.
In terms of branching, the game has only some. It's hard to answer this question because you can never be sure about someone's points of comparison. But it's a long story with a lot of moving parts, so deep fundamental branches would quickly become untenable.
In terms of consequences, including many is one of my main goals with the game. Nearly all the player's actions are tracked and have multiple consequences along the way. Rather than trying to laud my own game, it might be simplest to look at the wiki guide for the recent war event: https://thelastsovereign.miraheze.org/wiki/Third_Arclent_War_guide
The "variables" section at the beginning will give you a sense for the kinds of things the game tracks and how they have consequences. There are spoilers if you go lower.
Can't promise the game is to your taste, but thanks for your interest!
Additional links:
https://thelastsovereign.miraheze.org/wiki/The_Last_Sovereign_Wiki
u/lostone2TLS [+1] (a day later)
We are still finishing the guide for the latest update, but I can already tell you other examples:
(Minor spoilers): did you advise your old acquaintance (a nun in a somehow safe church) to leave the safety of the convent's wall behind to help others? Or do you choose to not say anything? She could end dead and missed, or she could choose to join the group and to help (a little) undermining one of the candidates to throne during a Succession crisis. And we are talking about a minor character here.
Do you take the time to examine a small farm of... slimes in a elf city? Maybe that will get you a young, energetic elf as a business partner that down the road will help a worthy candidate.
(Spoilers End)
About the TAW guide it was a TON of work for a good number of people. I'm ecstatic that you mentioned it elsewhere.
u/HotDropMarble [+11] (32 minutes later)
For what it's worth, I definitely recommend The Last Sovereign to any /r/rational redditors who don't mind NSFW games.
I've played about 50 hours in the past and one of the things I like best about it is the worldbuilding and the characters. I find most characters in harem games ( and NSFW media in general) pretty forgettable, but TLS manages to make all of its characters memorable.
The worldbuilding is pretty great as well. I guess this is where the characteristics of /r/rational stand out the most to me in the game, because of how carefully constructed the world and backstory is.
All in all, if you like text based RPG's and you are ok with a NSFW game, you should give this game a solid shot.
u/CouteauBleu [+11] We are the Empire. (7 hours later)
r/rational: now 40% Worth the Candle and 60% various pornographic games. (I jest)
u/Noumero [+15] Self-Appointed Court Statistician (14 hours later)
Indeed you jest. According to my rigorous statistical analysis, it's actually:
- 40% Mother of Learning
- 25% Worth the Candle
- 21% miscellaneous short stories
- 3% blatant transhumanist propaganda
- 2% deep discussions regarding all forms of fiction
- 2% Harry Potter fanfiction
- 2% whale puns
- 2% Worm
- 1% A Practical Guide To Evil
- 1% dirty paperclip-maximizer wish-fulfilment fantasies
- 1% bayesians having sex
Sounds about right. /s
u/CouteauBleu [+7] We are the Empire. (14 hours later)
Man, r!Animorphs doesn't even show up in your list :(
u/xamueljones [+3] My arch-enemy is entropy (17 hours later)
3% blatant transhumanist propaganda
I think this is where it is hiding. ;)
u/Noumero [+7] Self-Appointed Court Statistician (17 hours later)
No, it's just so small a part of this subreddit as to be a rounding error. I'm sorry, u/CouteauBleu, but statistics don't lie.
... Okay, I analysed a second set of 100 top entries, here's the results. But, don't make me push it any further, lest I'll end up with some actual significant results derived from hard time-consuming work, instead of this low-effort joke I have going.
(Also, it's off-topic. I apologize, u/SierraLeeTLS. Should we move this somewhere else?)Edit: On second thoughts, that's exactly what I'll do.
u/xamueljones [+3] My arch-enemy is entropy (18 hours later)
Yeah I was joking around too, but I think the reason for the discrepancy between r!Animorphs' popularity and its frequency is because your list is only counting the number of posts made without taking into account the upvotes any given post has. Which is a perfectly valid measurement to make considering we only needed to know the composition of posts one would see rather than something like wanting to know what the sub enjoys the most or something like that.
Either way, thanks a lot for going to this effort making the list!
u/Noumero [+3] Self-Appointed Court Statistician (18 hours later)
No, it's actually based on r/rational/top/all-time, i. e. on the 200 posts with the highest rating in the subreddit's history. It's obviously biased — for example, a significant part of the subreddit's activity is in weekly threads, and not a single one of them has more than 31 points.
You're welcome, but that really didn't cost me much effort.
u/xamueljones [+1] My arch-enemy is entropy (19 hours later)
Ah! I thought you had just made the list from the 200 most recent posts, not the top-most ones. Thanks for the clarification.
u/edwardkmett [+6] (20 hours later)
1% bayesians probably having sex
u/thrownaway19891 [+8] (6 hours later)
I've actually considered making a post about this game here, so it's neat to see that someone beat me to it, and the author too, no less.
Besides the characters, I really like the game's focus on soft power as a necessary complement to the traditional RPG power treadmill. This is especially true when it comes to economics, and I love how much the investment and economic developments you make play into how the game progresses.
It's something that's woefully neglected in mainstream games, so to see it in a genre that isn't often known for deep thought was a real treat.
To anyone who is not turned off by the thought of NSFW games, I cannot recommend this one enough.
u/xamueljones [+3] My arch-enemy is entropy (54 minutes later)
What would you say are your influences? Any works that you are drawing inspiration from for this game?
Also, the summary on TV Tropes is really cool and makes the game very intriguing to play.
u/SierraLeeTLS [+8] (2 hours later)
Good question; apologies for not being able to give a thorough answer right now.
My primary inspiration and influence for this game was the deconstruction aspect. Playing a variety of other adult games, I often felt dissatisfaction with the worldbuilding and the protagonists' impetuousness. I recognized that I'm not the target audience for those games, though, so I set about making something for myself. That includes both the aforementioned aspects and just going all in on the detail-oriented investment and hidden variable stuff. Fortunately, other people seem to like it too!
The TV Tropes description is a good summary of the game, I think. Glad you like the concept!
u/Tommy2255 [+5] (an hour later)
I'm not sure I'd call the game as a whole particularly relevant to this sub, but Yarra at least does deserve some kind of Rationality Award for how she approaches the needs and limitations that come with life as a succubus.
u/Treacherous_Usurper [+4] (22 hours later)
As a sex game, I'd say CoC/TiTs > MGQ>Your Game (greater than meaning better, >= may be equal) As RPGs, I'd say CoC/TiTs>=Your Game> MGQ. As for an interesting story (i.e. rational), I'd say your game >= MGQ>TiTs/CoC.
May change that later, haven't finished the game yet, but that's my first impression after ~3 hours.
u/Gworn [+4] (10 days later)
I'm really enjoying the game. This is the first time in years that I've been this engaged with a story-heavy game. I'm not even that much into the porn aspects of it. (Playing a game and enjoying porn require different moods for me and I can't switch so quickly between them.)
Still, the world-building and dialog are amazing. The only slightly annoying thing, is that to experience everything, you have to regularly talk with all possible characters to double-check whether they have anything new to say. I'd prefer if there was some visual indication whether a character had something new to say or not.
5/5 from me.
u/SierraLeeTLS [+3] (10 days later)
Thanks, glad to hear you're enjoying it! I hear what you're saying about an indicator of new conversations - it'd be difficult to add this late in development, but it's something I'll keep in mind for the future.
u/Jakkubus [+3] (45 minutes later)
Hmm, I skimmed through the wiki, but I didn't find anything in particular that would make it a rational story, while magic system doesn't look more scientific than magic in D&D.
Though world-weary middle-aged widower as a protagonist sounds like an interesting choice.
u/thrownaway19891 [+9] (6 hours later)
Having played it, I'd say that the rational aspect comes less from the setting, and more from the main characters' response to it.
In particular, there is a strong emphasis on making practical, well thought out choices, and building up soft powers such as economic and political, rather than just follow the standard RPG progression of "kill monster, loot stuff" (though a certain degree of it happens anyway).
u/Throwitover9000 [+3] (8 hours later)
I'd say that the rational aspect comes less from the setting, and more from the main characters' response to it.
Isn't that true for plenty of rational fanfics and whatnot? Example: Even if the HPMOR setting was more sensible than the original, it was far from a rational world.
u/lostone2TLS [+3] (a day later)
As one of the founders of the wiki, I can honestly say that we never give a thought about that particular angle. Maybe the Simon page will help in that aspect.
u/Jakkubus [+2] (a day later)
I am not saying that it's not a rational story, but just that at first quick glance it didn't look like one.
u/lostone2TLS [+3] (a day later)
Ok. I would say then that the main character behaves in most cases in a rational and logical way, but both the situations and a good number of his antagonists don't.
Do this make the whole story rational and logical? No, not really.
But in the context that Simon finds himself, he makes (most of the time) rational and overall practical decisions, no matter how ruthless or distasteful they are .
u/Jakkubus [+2] (a day later)
I'll give it a shot, when I find some free time.
u/Kishoto [+3] (2 hours later)
I would also like to point out that, and this is a very minor nitpick;
u/dmitry106 [+5] (2 hours later)
Don't worry, it is definitely worth losing the few minutes of bait if it hooks you. Kind of impossible to talk about the game without mentioning the spoiler for the intro, and it is very worth playing for the characters alone.
u/necrontau [+1] (a day later)
But the intro is kinda important to the rest of the game IMO
u/Sayf_ullah_al-Maslul [+2] (4 days later)
Kai isn't primarily what's important about the intro, Altina is, her character and what can happen to her is one of the most important OPTIONAL and EASILY MISSED aspects of Act 2.
It's like dragon age origins but occasionally more punishing so playing through again is no problem; I enjoy the writing, interdependent strategic layers, and progression.
We haven't even seen Altina's Custom Staff yet, and to think on my first run I missed her totally, it was a fucking disaster that run, Carina's men got stomped and it really took me by surprise how important the optional stuff is.
The start is slow but provides context and altogether the game forms something that no other RPG maker game approaches.
u/FinetalPies [+1] (a month later)
tbh I'm sorry for your loss. I was honestly just expecting another trashy h-game going in and that twist was the first step of TLS becoming one of my favourite RPGs, all-inclusive.
u/None [+3] (2 days later)
Looks like it's an exe. Is there a Linux version yet?
u/SierraLeeTLS [+4] (2 days later)
Sorry, but it's not supported by the engine. Earlier, ceegheim made a post about making it work that may help. I've heard mixed things about Wine, from those saying it works immediately to those who can't get it to run at all.
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
:(
I guess I'll try to run it on Wine when I get back home. Maybe I can help you find a more cross-platform engine?
u/lostone2TLS [+3] (3 days later)
I shudder to think what a port to the last version of RPG Maker (MV) would entail for a game of this size (MV is cross-plataform: works in Windows, Linux and Mac natively, and it's possible to port to Android too, but that process is more complex).
But realistically, I don't think that it's feasible as it would imply a huge amount of work (among other things they have two different programming languages).
u/None [+1] (3 days later)
Why did you choose to build the game for Windows only?
u/SierraLeeTLS [+3] (4 days later)
When beginning work, I chose an engine based on a very large number of different factors. Cross-platform compatibility was one of the considerations, but it was a fairly small one. Sorry about that.
Most of my other games (Crimson Gray, Ouroboros, Kingdom of Deception) support Mac and Linux. But I couldn't have built TLS in those engines, not under reasonable conditions.
u/None [+2] (5 days later)
What were those factors? And do you care much about whether software is free and open source?
u/SierraLeeTLS [+5] (5 days later)
It would be difficult to list all the factors. In very broad terms, the three most important are:
Support of solid game mechanics that allows me to focus on my writing strengths. This is a complex and subjective one, sorry.
A large library of freely available resources, sufficient to create a diverse world with artistic consistency.
An active community and ongoing development of both engine and resources.
I'm not as concerned with the software being free or open source, though both are pluses.
You're asking because you want to suggest another engine? I don't mind, as recommendations could always lead me somewhere new and worthwhile. But to be clear, I do not intend to throw away several years of work to recreate everything in a new engine.
u/decantra [+1] Anti-Spiral (6 days later)
Wine has worked for some. If you discover any additional trick to getting it to work on Wine, letting people know about it will be of more use to other potential players than trying to get the developer to switch engines at this point in development.
I suppose you could also contribute to a project like https://github.com/mcanterb/JRGSS if you really really care about this issue in general.
u/thrownaway19891 [+1] (8 days later)
I've had ok success running it on Wine. There were a couple crashes, so save frequently, but for the most part following the instructions on appdb let me run it ok.
u/hoja_nasredin [+3] Dai-Gurren Brigade (11 days later)
Due to this thread I started the game.And I must I', liking it. Especially the start.
u/SierraLeeTLS [+2] (11 days later)
Thanks, hope you continue to enjoy it!
u/hoja_nasredin [+2] Dai-Gurren Brigade (11 days later)
currently started chapter2. Trying to stop myself from reading the wiki too much. Damn choices. Do I run after Varia and then do all side quests with her or do them now? in case they disappear?
u/SierraLeeTLS [+2] (11 days later)
I usually try to signpost points of no return clearly, but this one is less clear. While you can technically get a little bit more optimization by manipulating the order of things here, it's not a huge effect. I would recommend leaving Varia for last - and make sure you don't miss the mountain on the area map.
u/Kishoto [+2] (2 hours later)
Based on the comments and your description; this definitely seems like a post worthy of r/rational. If the characters act as you say, in a logical, consistent matter, then I think it fits the sort of content that we're looking for here.
u/ceegheim [+2] (15 hours later)
The game looks pretty fun so far, thanks for making it and reccing it here!
Slightly annoying: Making the runtime work on linux. For other linux users, virtualbox does the job, ie no trouble with the nightmare that is directx pass-through. I did get a couple of random crashes, but this may well be my fault (running a weird setup).
Has anyone managed to make the runtime work under wine? Or, even better, on an arm / android (an arm tablet would be a quite natural device for playing this)?
u/dmitry106 [+1] (2 days later)
I just copied the files of the complete version. Worked with wine without any configuration required although it may have been due to me already having the necessary dependencies. If it doesn't work for you, just scour the debug log and check on google to find out what dependency to install from your distro's packages.
As for ARM, I can't imagine trying to get it to work (nicely) considering it is not native to the architecture. Not really worth the time vs just remote accessing to an x86 computer.
u/Quetzhal [+1] (4 days later)
I can't find a good summary or any screenshots of the game. The premise interests me, so I'll give it a looksee, but - I'm guessing based on the header that there isn't much, if any, content for gay dudes.
I mean, I'm willing to check it out for story regardless, I'm just curious. I'll probably fill that niche myself one day; I'm studying comp sci for a reason.
u/SierraLeeTLS [+4] (4 days later)
Yes, sorry, but you won't find any sexual content that appeals to you. The protagonist isn't an avatar for the player and has a set sexual orientation. Glad you're willing to give it a shot, but didn't want to be misleading about that aspect.
I think the TV Tropes link from my post is best for a summary, while the wiki has screenshots.
u/immute [+1] Secretly Awesome (6 days later)
Is there a version for macOS?
u/SierraLeeTLS [+2] (6 days later)
Sorry, no.