22 KiB
[D] Monday General Rationality Thread
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Author: u/AutoModerator *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/8ho6is/d_monday_general_rationality_thread/
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Score: 19
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Created: 2018-05-07T15:06:55
Post:
Welcome to the Monday thread on general rationality topics! Do you really want to talk about something non-fictional, related to the real world? Have you:
- Seen something interesting on /r/science?
- Found a new way to get your shit even-more together?
- Figured out how to become immortal?
- Constructed artificial general intelligence?
- Read a neat nonfiction book?
- Munchkined your way into total control of your D&D campaign?
Comments:
u/xamueljones [+13] My arch-enemy is entropy (10 minutes later)
Where is everyone from? I've been wondering about the ethnic and geographic diversity of the people on this subreddit. Age bracket would be nice to know too.
I'm from New York of USA, Caucasian, and 23 years old.
EDIT: Forgot to add that I'm Ashkenazi.
u/Afforess [+13] Hermione Did Nothing Wrong (2 hours later)
Probably should have asked with a google survey link.
Austin, TX, Caucasian, 27.
u/ToaKraka [+6] https://i.imgur.com/OQGHleQ.png (2 hours later)
Location: New York City metropolitan area (southwest edge)
Appearance: Sub-Saharan
Culture: USAian Oreo
Age: 24 years
u/None [+6] (2 hours later)
[deleted]
u/CouteauBleu [+2] We are the Empire. (20 hours later)
Sorry if it's too obvious or personal, but any thoughts on the whole "independence then annexation" thing?
u/MagicWeasel [+6] Cheela Astronaut (7 hours later)
Age 30, caucasian, female
30 years old, so apparently me and /u/SeekingImmortality are the loveable grandparents of the group, age-wise o_o;;;
Located in Perth, Australia
u/SeekingImmortality [+3] The Eldest, Apparently (a day later)
....And so far I'm still holding the title of Eldest.... C'mon folks. Take my title! I'm too young to hold such a venerated position!
u/DaystarEld [+3] Pokémon Professor (2 days later)
I think the writers here skew on the older side: I'm 30 too, and that seems on the lower bound compared to most of the others I know. So maybe we're just the parents rather than the grandparents :)
u/CouteauBleu [+2] We are the Empire. (20 hours later)
Oh yeah. You're the cool aunt/grandmother.
u/MagicWeasel [+3] Cheela Astronaut (20 hours later)
You think I'm cool!?!?!?!
Also, thankfully some absolutely ancient 32 year olds have come and made me feel less geriatric! Thanks folks.
u/CouteauBleu [+3] We are the Empire. (21 hours later)
You think I'm cool!?!?!?!
Eh. As far as internet strangers go, you're alright.
u/SvalbardCaretaker [+2] Mouse Army (4 days later)
Lets see. From memory:
- Is a cheela.
- immortal. (see cheela)
- Nice to internet strangers
- works in a very non-traditional-for-their-gender field
- does something with engineering
Certified supercool.
u/MagicWeasel [+1] Cheela Astronaut (4 days later)
I appreciate your compliments very much (YOU HAVE NO IDEA), but I need to clarify:
Cheela are not immortal, kind of the opposite, they live about 15 minutes. Unless they do that very risky rejuvenation that requires starvation and excessive muscle tone...
And civil engineering is pretty lady-friendly as engineering goes, not like I'm doing electrical/electronic. And I'm studying to be a dietitian, and I have not seen a single man doing the undergrad feeder degree (I'm sure they exist, but the men in my classes are all studying sports science or something else "manly"). So dietetics is probably even more womanly than engineering is manly, since my undergrad engineering courses were 20-30% women.
does something with engineering
i.e. manages a bunch of projects that are always out of time and somehow manages to get good results anyway despite her pointy-haired boss doing his best to make the projects even later by taking a month to sign a damn form
u/SvalbardCaretaker [+2] Mouse Army (4 days later)
Cheela are not immortal, kind of the opposite, they live about 15 minutes.
Indeed! And seeing as we talked about cheelas a couple months ago (you had to get "dragon egg" via library loan system) you must be one heck of an old cheela.
Dont talk yourself down so much!
u/MagicWeasel [+2] Cheela Astronaut (4 days later)
Geez you have a long memory! Yes, I am a regular exotic-dancer-lady-in-the-second-book-was-because-apparently-nobody-online-wrote-it-down!
The cheela must have worked out immortality hey :P
I will try not to talk myself down but it's hard because I'm so amazing I don't want to end up with a giant rampaging ego
u/SvalbardCaretaker [+2] Mouse Army (4 days later)
I just looked it up and we had our exchange about dragon egg a year ago! Amazing how time flies.
Use your giant ego to counteract your inefficient boss a little ;-)
u/MagicWeasel [+2] Cheela Astronaut (4 days later)
I try :P
Wow, time does fly! It's insane. And I got so much done in that year too. I hope you did too!
Don't worry about my boss, in a month I get my 3 months' paid leave, so if I quit I have a good amount of runway. And there's an opportunity that is at a big step up for me that I'm going to apply for. Probably won't get it, but there's always a chance, and the feeling of hope is the main thing.
u/ben_oni [-3] (22 hours later)
Don't worry, nobody actually thinks you're cool.
u/MagicWeasel [+7] Cheela Astronaut (a day later)
Was that a joke that didn't land, or did you honestly think it would be good to say something mean to an internet stranger for no reason?
u/ben_oni [-2] (a day later)
Oh! You want people to think you're cool. I'm so sorry! I'm such an ass!
u/MagicWeasel [+6] Cheela Astronaut (a day later)
What are you trying to say? That social acceptance is not something that most people yearn for on some level? Are you trying to say that you have risen above the level of us mere mortals who want other people to like us? Or am I completely missing something? Do you just have a strange sense of humour?
u/CouteauBleu [+7] We are the Empire. (a day later)
I think you're feeding a troll here. He's just a jerk.
u/MagicWeasel [+6] Cheela Astronaut (a day later)
Honestly I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt, since I've seen him around and I know he's an intelligent person who might just have an... abrasive personality.
I mean, what troll goes on a subreddit like this and makes long, detailed, emphatic posts just to get 2 or 3 downvotes? Go to twoXC and talk about involuntary celibacy or something if you want to get real downvotes, you know?
Besides as the cool grandmother I need to be a kindly old biddy and invite the school bully in for tea and crumpets.
u/neondragonfire [+5] (8 hours later)
Age: 27
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Origin: Berlin, Germany
u/trekie140 [+6] (an hour later)
California, Caucasian, age 23.
u/SeekingImmortality [+5] The Eldest, Apparently (5 hours later)
Chicagoland IL, Caucasian, 37.
u/callmesalticidae [+3] writes worldbuilding books (2 hours later)
Born in Missouri but raised in Michigan and currently located in California.
Caucasian.
u/Roneitis [+3] (5 hours later)
Australia, Brisbane, Mostly Caucasian, but enough Sri Lankan that I get people asking why I'm brown, 17.
u/gintokifan [+4] (6 hours later)
Lagos, Nigeria - age 26
u/IgonnaBe3 [+4] (6 hours later)
18 years old
Poland
u/XxChronOblivionxX [+4] (9 hours later)
Moorhead, MN, Caucasian, 23 years old.
u/CouteauBleu [+4] We are the Empire. (20 hours later)
Paris, France, 22 years old, extremely average rationalist Caucasian male.
u/phylogenik [+3] (3 hours later)
25/M/CA-USA
(lol)
(but originally from a village just out of Moscow, RU; ethnically slavic)
(I also wonder what people here and adjacent communities look like -- selection bias aside, it feels like half the responses to questions about physical fitness feature off-season competitive bodybuilders, going by the stats)
u/Marthinwurer [+6] (6 hours later)
That's a self selecting group. Would you really want to talk about your fitness if you were a slob?
u/GaBeRockKing [+2] Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857 (a day later)
(I also wonder what people here and adjacent communities look like -- selection bias aside, it feels like half the responses to questions about physical fitness feature off-season competitive bodybuilders, going by the stats)
I'm willing to bet that if we surveyed the fitness level of /r/rational and plotted it on a histogram, we'd have two distinct peaks:
- Average pudgy academic/white-collar-worker
- Bodybuilders
Group one for obvious reasons (we're jam-packed with white collar workers and academics), but group two's presence would be magnified (compared to the population as a whole) because, /r/rational's primary userbase is males in their twenties (disproportionately likely to work out), and because we're more sensitive about health concerns as no doubt many of us hope to live to see immortality and/or the singularity (I certainly do). You can check /r/transhuman for corroboration; they're similarly concerned about health because they plan to be immortal.
u/Veedrac [+3] (3 hours later)
UK, 22, white
u/eternal-potato [+3] he who vegetates (3 hours later)
Moscow, Russian, 24
u/None [+3] (4 hours later)
I've moved so often it's hard to give a from. 29, Ashkenazi.
u/Aabcehmu112358 [+3] Utter Fallacy (5 hours later)
Chicago, White, 21
u/None [+3] (6 hours later)
Canada/Caucasian/17/Male
Unsurprisingly this sub is overwhelmingly male, white, and from the US.
u/xamueljones [+4] My arch-enemy is entropy (6 hours later)
The part I find surprising is how many people are between 20 to 30 years old. I expected more people to be over 30.
u/None [+5] (8 hours later)
Reddit's pretty young still. A lot of people joined in their teens I think and that made it so reddit's culture revolved around what young males are interested in. I imagine in 20 years, if reddit's still around, it'll mostly be used by mid-40s people.
u/CouteauBleu [+2] We are the Empire. (20 hours later)
The part I find surprising is how many people are under 20. oO
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
I agree, that is surprising. Reddit usually is more college-aged based in my experience.
u/ben_oni [-5] (22 hours later)
No wonder this sub feels like it's full of children.
u/alexanderwales [+11] Time flies like an arrow (a day later)
I'm banning you for a week, effective immediately. I'd give you a warning, but I gave you one five months ago for exactly this sort of comment, which is a repeated pattern with you (clearly). If you're thinking of posting something like this in the future, instead, don't do that.
Everyone else, do your part to keep /r/rational pleasant.
u/GaBeRockKing [+7] Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857 (a day later)
You've been pretty negative in this thread so far. You okay man? Did something happen? (And because emotion is hard to get through text, I want to say that this isn't condescension or a veiled insult.)
u/CouteauBleu [+2] We are the Empire. (a day later)
Fuck you too.
u/GlueBoy [+3] anti-skub (12 hours later)
Born: Brazil
Location: toronto
Age: 32 yo
Ethnicity: Brazilian ;)
u/LLJKCicero [+3] (17 hours later)
32, m, half white half Asian (Korean/Japanese), originally from SF Bay area but currently in Munich
u/SimoneNonvelodico [+2] Dai-Gurren Brigade (15 hours later)
Italian but living in UK, Caucasian, male, 32 yo.
u/jaczac [+2] D-Class Subjects (15 hours later)
Austin TX, 19, caucasian
u/TempAccountIgnorePls [+2] (16 hours later)
Caucasian, Ireland, 21
u/lemonkid360 [+2] (21 hours later)
Location: London
Age: 22-year-old man-child
Culture: Icelandic/Jamaican
u/Loiathal [+2] (a day later)
Colorado, 28, White
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)
Cambridge, UK, Indian, 19 years old
u/DaystarEld [+2] Pokémon Professor (2 days later)
checks thread
Yep. I'm still the only rationalist I know in Miami, or even Florida.
u/alexanderwales [+2] Time flies like an arrow (2 days later)
Caucasian, northern Minnesota (USA), 32 years old.
u/SkyTroupe [+1] (a day later)
What's up my NY bro. Im 26 and from NY too.
u/xamueljones [+2] My arch-enemy is entropy (2 days later)
Hello! I'm from Brooklyn myself. Capital of the world! I'll fight anyone who says otherwise!
u/SkyTroupe [+1] (4 days later)
Long Island represent!
u/Shakunato [+1] (a day later)
Oklahoma, white, 28
u/tjhance [+1] (2 days later)
I'm from ohio, currently in pennsylvania. age 26
u/CouteauBleu [+2] We are the Empire. (20 hours later)
The last slatestarcodex article is a pretty good survey of internet arguments, and their common problems. I'm wondering what you thought about it. (especially if you happen to be u/trekie140, wink wink)
u/trekie140 [+7] (22 hours later)
That was an interesting read, but it is no longer relevant to me because I have regained the privilege of not feeling constant anxiety over the constant suffering that morals, cultural norms, and biases are causing.
I have decided that I am better off simply not participating in arguments with people, regardless of how important I consider the disagreement to be, and restrict myself to associating with people who share my morals. It makes me feel more secure and self confident.
Having the privilege to not think about all the evil things that hurt people who lack my social support, economic standing, and cultural inertia of being born white has made me much happier at the expense of others who lack my privileges.
I have reduced the amount of news I consume to the bare minimum that I require to stay informed because I have chosen not to be worried about whether fascists and narcissists will kill and abuse people who I don’t know personally.
Edit: I may not have made it clear enough that I do not think that I am being morally virtuous by doing this, as I have decided the best thing I can do about evil in myself and the world is “don’t think about it”.
u/CouteauBleu [+2] We are the Empire. (a day later)
I may not have made it clear enough that I do not think that I am being morally virtuous by doing this
I think that, theoretically, someone reading the rest of your message might have inferred that. You weren't exactly being subtle. Or even coy. :P
Also, you totally learned the wrong lesson from all this, but... I'm... glad you're not making yourself depressed anymore?
u/trekie140 [+1] (a day later)
I’m not sure what the right lesson was. I had thoroughly rationalized that everyone everywhere is suffering, I was allowing others to experience more suffering than I was just by living the way I do, and there was nothing I could do about it even if I wasn’t afraid of risking what I do have.
I don’t know how I can hate myself less without feeling less empathy towards others, so I’ve decided to just act like a person who does without constantly thinking about what other people are going through. It’s easier on myself if I only think about my moral actions as performative.
That’s not something I want other people to do, I feel like I should be ashamed for doing it at all, but I don’t see any other way to not be so self righteous that I hate myself for all the sins I’ve committed besides accepting that I am selfish enough to hold onto my undeserved privileges.
u/ianstlawrence [+3] (a day later)
I've thought about this problem.
My take on it is that humanity is progressing and things are getting better. This is backed by some evidence, but you have to accept this as a fact before moving to my next thought.
Most of human history has not had the global knowledge that we currently do. Only until very, very, very recently have people been able to be so aware of all of the other things that are happening around the world. It is also true (again backed some evidence, but you can take this as the second assumption I am making) that Good things (up to you to define "good") are reported less than Bad things (again, you make the definition).
My conclusion is that because things have had an upward trend. And because bad things are reported more than good things. My (and maybe your) perception is pretty skewed.
So, what do we do to move forward? Well, we have history to draw upon. It turns out that by being a force of good locally, which is the main thing that humans do, because global presence is a new thing, the world gets better.
Now, there is a hidden assumption in here as well. That is my assumption that history and movements and big revolutions of any kind are not predicated on singular human beings but society reaching critical points, and then eventually there is a single human being that we tend to push, to some extent, the narrative change upon.
So, I think that if I am, generally, on a local level, a Good person, who is helpful and productive and tries, suffering is reduced.
It is even better to do more, of course, but I don't think you are necessarily correct in your perception regarding all of the suffering you are viewing and what that means.
Hopefully, even if you do not agree, this helps in some small way. Feel free to challenge anything I said, as I am still learning my own way of trying to understand what my position actually means in the world and what compulsions I should try to meet because of that.
Also, I am 29, white, live in California, and I work as a freelance contractor in live broadcast.
u/trekie140 [+1] (a day later)
That’s how I felt before events like #MeToo revealed how many ways people are suffering today that I had never realized because of my privileged position as a white man (since then I came out as genderfluid). That means that more pain exists now and has always existed throughout history than I had ever imagined, specifically because of abuse and discrimination by people very much like me.
I believe that simply having been raised in that environment has lead to me thinking prejudiced thoughts that I don’t know are prejudiced and that simply thinking them is inherently harmful to others, but they have been so deeply engrained by culture that I can’t stop thinking them even when I notice them. It doesn’t matter how much self loathing that causes me because that pain is nothing compared to what the victims have gone and are going through.
I have not been convinced that view is inaccurate and I am not especially interested in having it dispelled because it motivates me to be vigilant against evil within myself and in others. I do not think I can understand what disadvantaged people have gone through and that means I doubt I can truly feel empathy for them, so that leaves self hatred incurred by moral debt to motivate me.
That was clearly an unhealthy state of being that resulted in crippling depression and was probably related to anxiety from my financial situation. I was afraid of becoming impoverished and losing the privileges I had, but I still had it way better than so many others who live whole lives feeling this way so I should loathe myself for ever being so privileged to not know that. Now I have regained financial security and the anxiety and depression are gone.
I still believe all the same things I did before, but now I’ve stopped thinking about all the sins I have and am still committing just by living this way. I believe doing this is immoral, but I’m selfish enough to care more about my personal happiness than doing the most good. I was already failing to live up to my moral code, I just don’t feel constant shame and self loathing anymore for failing. I think all that self inflicted pain is completely justified, but I stopped doing it and am okay with that.
u/ianstlawrence [+1] (2 days later)
Well, I hope one day that you get to a point where you are not just "okay with that" but happy and joyous for each new day.
Best of luck!
u/ben_oni [+1] (22 hours later)
I think it uses too many words to say too little.
u/linaeap [+2] (2 days later)
If anyone's interested in audio content, my weekly podcast is mostly me reading Worm and Alicorn stories (though I'm happy to read other things if people are interested). It's also live at 6PM Eastern on WMBC.
Check it out online at: Wingardcast