scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/8ja44s.md

Rational Wakanda

• Author: u/None *

• URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/8ja44s/rational_wakanda/

• Score: 28

• Created: 2018-05-14T06:10:58

Post:

So...now that Black Panther is out on Blu-Ray...

You're basically T'Challa at the end of the BP, right before he decides to announce his kingdom's existence.

Does it make sense for him to do so? Should he avoid it or should he wait until Wakanda has made necessary changes before doing so? What would you change before revealing the truth were you in his shoes (imo that military has to go; it's horrific)? And how would you leverage vibranium in the MCU!Earth economy? Sell it raw? Only in tech?

I guess two questions:

1. Would you reveal Wakanda?
2. If you were forced to, what changes would you make to the country before doing so to maximize its chances of global success?

Comments:

u/narfanator [+28] (3 hours later)

Strictly speaking, I don't think he does reveal Wakanda. He just says "we're gonna start doing shit now", and then starts doing it (Oakland).

I'd do the same thing, seems reasonable. "There's changes I'd like to see in the world. I'm going to start making them".

In terms of changes to Wakanda, we don't actually know enough about them to say. We know what virbanium mining looks like (sortof), but not what any of their manufacturing or media, or software, or financial institutions look like.

It seems very reasonable that they have a substantial ability to interface with the rest of the world's economic system, and that they've had that capability for a long time, it's just that now they're starting to exercise it.

I would not open up tourism, and it seemed like Wakanda already had open borders to their citizens. That'd be too much to fast, or limited to elitism, etc.

Instead, I would seriously consider a trade city. Start a place specifically for the blending of cultures.

It doesn't seem like Wakanda needs to leverage vibranium to meet any of their goals, although maybe there are ecological or space-related goals that would make sense. Key bit here is that Wakanda doesn't seem to need anything from the rest of the world (at least, not that it can't already get), so it really gets to make free choices about what, and when, and how to get involved.

The military doesn't have to go. We see them capable of extremely effective surgical strikes, and we see a host of technology that would be extremely capable at national defense. The civil battle, given how close the various groups ere, seems reasonable to assume was "ritualistic". In other words, they weren't actually fighting to kill each other - the people who were were Killmonger and BP, and the aerial battle. In both of those cases powerful weapons were deployed without restriction.

In other words, again, it seems like their military suits their purposes just fine.

u/None [+22] (3 hours later)

Strictly speaking, I don't think he does reveal Wakanda. He just says "we're gonna start doing shit now", and then starts doing it (Oakland).

There's a mid-credit scene where he does reveal it to the UN.

u/scruiser [+10] CYOA (10 hours later)

It wasn’t 100% clear how much he was revealing.

u/None [+13] (21 hours later)

Considering that he straight up revealed the Royal Talon in the middle of Oakland I'd lean towards more disclosure instead of less.

u/narfanator [+2] (a day later)

Sort of. That's the scene I'm referring to; AFAIR he doesn't show off any tech or anything, which is why the other officials are dismissive of his announcement. But, maybe I'm forgetting something?

u/None [+9] (a day later)

The scene cuts off before he reveals anything but he wasn't done speaking, and the implication is clear, given both the speech before and him brazenly revealing his high-tech spaceship in the middle of an American city a scene or two earlier.

u/None [+5] (21 hours later)

I would not open up tourism, and it seemed like Wakanda already had open borders to their citizens. That'd be too much to fast, or limited to elitism, etc.

Frankly, unless you need really cheap labor opening one's borders seems like a horrible idea, given their geographic position.

The military doesn't have to go. We see them capable of extremely effective surgical strikes, and we see a host of technology that would be extremely capable at national defense. The civil battle, given how close the various groups ere, seems reasonable to assume was "ritualistic". In other words, they weren't actually fighting to kill each other - the people who were were Killmonger and BP, and the aerial battle. In both of those cases powerful weapons were deployed without restriction.

Infinity War basically establishes that it wasn't a "counting coup" situation; the military is as horrible as it looks.

u/narfanator [+2] (a day later)

I haven't seen IW yet, but I'll take your word for it.

u/ArgentStonecutter [+13] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (3 hours later)

Dang, I thought this was going to be an attempt to rationally explain Wakanda. Or how rational Wakanda would differ from movie Wakanda.

u/alexshatberg [+28] Mouse Army (5 hours later)

An obvious one: revamped laws of succession. The ones in the movie were as far from rational as you can get.

u/Ratseye [+4] (6 hours later)

what do you propose? they are warring tribes led by a single person, meant to be the strongest of all the leaders. having the strongest lead a tribe makes sense from a charismatic perspective.

(not referring to the outsider guy becoming king; i disliked that)

u/alexshatberg [+28] Mouse Army (7 hours later)

At the very least you could replace the one-on-one hand combat (prowess in which quite clearly has no correlation with being a good king in a clandestine technocracy), with something like an elaborate Battle School challenge that would test the contenders for a variety of skills and personal qualities.

u/PotentiallySarcastic [+9] (14 hours later)

The implication is that the tribes only allow challengers that they have groomed to be leaders and the H2H combat is just the best way to figure out the king and Black Panther role and hearkens back to their past.

The right of the royal family to mount its own challenge points to this but obviously has some negative side effects if you allow your radical brother to have a kid and leave them out in the wider world.

u/Ratseye [+8] (7 hours later)

Yeah that makes sense. I suppose they went 1v1 route cuz the king was also the panther, and they wanted the absolute strongest to be that.

u/FenrirW0lf [+6] (8 hours later)

And since all the heart-shaped herbs are gone by the end of the film (meaning there can be no successor to the Black Panther anymore), they might as well seize the opportunity to redo the whole process.

u/Draconomial [+2] Sunshine Regiment (11 hours later)

They can get those back with time travel though

u/FenrirW0lf [+11] (11 hours later)

Oh, they definitely can do that. Or maybe they'll just stumble upon some more growing in a random cave somewhere.

But even in that case they should still seize the opportunity presented by the (possibly-temporary) absence of the plant to change the rules of succession anyway. Any die-hard traditionalists would probably be upset by the change, but if they believe the ritual is no longer physically possible then they're more open to begrudgingly accepting a new set of rules. Plus there's the whole "barely avoiding a hostile takeover of the kingdom by someone who's basically an outsider" thing that would already be swaying many opinions.

Then if the wakadans one day discover or otherwise acquire more of the plant at some point, maybe they can just keep that under wraps until the necessary changes are made. Then at some point in the future they'll be like "oh I guess we have more of it after all lol" but by then it will be too late to reinstate the old rite of succession.

u/WTFwhatthehell [+2] (29 days later)

having 100% of a plant essential to national security in a single chamber when that plant is also highly vulnerable to fire... seems unreasonable.

My first thought was of a data center where someone shouts "burn it all" and does but doens't even consider that there might be off-site backups.

For the herb that would mean secure seed banks around the country with samples.

u/EliezerYudkowsky [+17] Godric Gryffindor (2 days later)

Professor Quirrell wishes to note that this would be an improvement over your own stupid system as well, and that Wakanda failing equally cannot be called unrealistic.

u/alexshatberg [+9] Mouse Army (2 days later)

To be fair, "2016 is decided by thousands of Battle Royale simulations" is a crackfic I'd read.

u/SimoneNonvelodico [+3] Dai-Gurren Brigade (3 days later)

Why simulations though?

u/hoja_nasredin [+2] Dai-Gurren Brigade (4 days later)

I totally see Quirell getting behind Thanos plan in IW if he agreed to kill the stupid half of population.

u/Silver_Swift [+15] (7 hours later)

They are warring tribes led by a single person

They were warring tribes led by a single person, by the time the movie starts they are a unified, modern country that is for some reason still led by an autocratic ruler that is selected for his ability to punch people to death on top of a waterfall.

u/RynnisOne [+9] (10 hours later)

To be fair, they weren't. The leader wasn't chosen that way, that was merely a method of determining succession when it was contested by viable challengers. For thousands of years this wasn't a problem.

It was only a problem when an heir was born in another countr and had never been raised by Wakanda.

If anything, the succession fight stops potentially years of argument within the legislature equivalent and in most cases was easily resolved. The problem isn't their laws on succession, the problem is their laws on CITIZENSHIP.

u/None [+12] (21 hours later)

It was only a problem when an heir was born in another countr and had never been raised by Wakanda.

I mean...that's just not true. It's a problem right in the movie, in the first challenge.

That's the problem: it's not that the challenge system is necessarily disastrous (though it's really not good); it could function as a check on a king's dynasty and a way to force him to take the interests of each tribe into account. Unless the King is horrible you don't want to try to kill him and run the risk of reprisals and he doesn't want to piss you off enough to make you want to do it.

The problem is the Jabari. They have no stake in the system. And, as we saw, this led to them challenging for the throne. You can't have a system like that and a pissed off minority that's totally willing to be pissing outside your tent or fucking with your apple cart constantly.

u/RMcD94 [+1] (2 days later)

Thousand of years it wasn't a problem hence why everyone uses this system in our own world

u/EthanCC [+3] (17 hours later)

Traditional feudal societies seem to have risen from a situation like that. In that case, the king is a military leader and real governing and economic power lies with nobles (or the tribes in this case).

u/SimoneNonvelodico [+1] Dai-Gurren Brigade (3 days later)

having the strongest lead a tribe makes sense from a charismatic perspective

Their entire well-being is founded upon mining, refining, and using in the most creative way an alien metal. By all means, they should venerate knowledge, and choose the greatest scientist of the country as their leader. It makes no sense that they have that kind of social structure with that kind of economy and history. It was just a way to make them feel "more African". Law of the strongest holds when physical strength rules the land and is the driver of the economy. Hunter gatherers do that. Technological societies, not so much.

u/Silver_Swift [+13] (5 hours later)

It definitely makes sense to reveal Wakanda to the world, with everything that is happening in the MCU world it is pretty much inevitable that Wakanda gets revealed sooner rather than later (even before IW), better to get out in front of it.

I'd focus on steering the world into a post-scarcity future. Technology wise, the MCU is pretty close already, so start big education project all over the planet and offer scholarships to every future Tony Stark and Peter Parker on the planet (especially those that don't have the means to go to existing centers of research) to come to Wakandan universities to learn about all the bullshit that vibranium tech is capable of. Aside from that, I'd keep your borders mostly closed to outsiders initially. Wakanda has a very xenophobic past and it takes time for a society to shake off that kind of history.

Meanwhile, use outreach programs and economic incentives as well as your considerable network of covert intelligence agents to get your neighboring countries to modernize and reform both economically and sociologically. At the world stage, make sure you are seen as 'one of the good guys': stick to climate accords, help with international crisis, contribute to boycotting countries that are being assholes, etc. In addition to just being generically helpful to the world that sort of behavior keeps popular opinion on your side and makes it harder for other world leaders to interfere with your plans and gets you some moral high ground to push other countries around.

As for changes I'd make before revealing Wakanda, if at all feasible I'd get rid of the ritual combat portion of electing a new leader and separate the role of Black Panther from the role of king, though I'd want to do that regardless of whether or not Wakanda gets revealed to the world. Combat prowess does not correlate very well with leadership ability (as we've seen with Killmonger) and the requirements for being a good Black Panther are different from the requirements of being a good king. Moving to democracy too quickly is also dangerous though, especially during a period of rapid reforms, so maybe put something in place that means Wakanda moves to some kind of democracy during the next transfer of power (ie. your death or abdication), that gives you plenty of time to sort things out and prevents another killmonger from messing things up.

u/None [+4] (21 hours later)

As for changes I'd make before revealing Wakanda, if at all feasible I'd get rid of the ritual combat portion of electing a new leader

That's a bit like saying that, as President of the US, you'll get rid of this "electoral college thing" no?

u/Silver_Swift [+7] (23 hours later)

A bit, yes, but the US president doesn't operate as an absolute monarch and you can use the fact that public support for the system will be at an all time low given what Killmonger just did.

Also (as a complete outsider to us politics) I suspect that if a US president did come out strongly against the electoral college, they could get a long way towards changing things.

u/SimoneNonvelodico [+2] Dai-Gurren Brigade (3 days later)

As for changes I'd make before revealing Wakanda, if at all feasible I'd get rid of the ritual combat portion of electing a new leader and separate the role of Black Panther from the role of king

Politically speaking that could only work one way: T'Challa keeping the title of Black Panther but stepping down as king, possibly in Shuri's favour. Otherwise it'll be perceived as a power grab.

u/Silver_Swift [+1] (3 days later)

That's an option, but I think leaving the current system in place until the next change of power isn't really a power grab, as Wakandan kings can already rule for life right now anyway (I believe Killmonger was the exception in that he was allowed to challenge the king during his reign, normally challengers get one shot at the coronation and that's it).

u/SimoneNonvelodico [+1] Dai-Gurren Brigade (3 days later)

Well, power grab for his dynasty, if not for him.

u/eroticas [+18] (8 hours later)

It depends on whether Wakanda's power is due mostly to superior tech level and an abundance of infrastructure and human capital, or mostly just due to the magic properties of vibranium, and also whether we're in the Marvel universe or just inserting black panther stuff into the real world.

The Heart-Shaped Herb is also very important as a source of mass produced superpowers, but realistically, in a rational Marvel Universe, superpowers and freaky tech would have already been mass produced by other peoples. So if it's really just the Vibranium, Wakanda is actually in a pretty precarious position.

And honestly, as Killmonger himself demonstrated in canon, Wakanda itself has an unrealistically unstable power structure. Hand-to-hand combat to decide the leader? Really? I understand trial by combat but are there any groups of people in the real world who appoint leaders by combat, save cliques of middle school boys who have watched too many movies about leaders being appointed by combat? Broke my suspension of disbelief at least. That would need to be entirely reworked immediately. It's also a blatantly contrived primitivism as an aesthetic literary choice.

u/None [+5] (21 hours later)

And honestly, as Killmonger himself demonstrated in canon, Wakanda itself has an unrealistically unstable power structure. Hand-to-hand combat to decide the leader? Really? I understand trial by combat but are there any groups of people in the real world who appoint leaders by combat, save cliques of middle school boys who have watched too many movies about leaders being appointed by combat? Broke my suspension of disbelief at least. That would need to be entirely reworked immediately. It's also a blatantly contrived primitivism as an aesthetic literary choice.

The problem with the system is not Killmonger, who is a once in a century event. It's M'Baku.

The other tribes...you can explain it as them essentially being bribed off by the King.' It's an armistice. The king doesn't piss them off, and they don't try to kill him and he doesn't -if he wins- enact reprisals.

But the Jabari...it makes no sense. How is it possible that no king has gone to cater to the Jabari if they can literally kill his children at any challenge? There's no incentive for the Jabari to ever avoid challenging for the throne. They have nothing to lose.

u/chaos-engine [+2] (a day later)

Maybe that's precisely why the kings don't visit them. They once made a challenge and they're being disgraced because of that

u/None [+3] (a day later)

That's not a sustainable position since there's no reason to ever stop having challenges then.

u/CFCrispyBacon [+3] (9 hours later)

Depends on if their military is based on what we've seen, or if that was mostly ritual combat-a phalanx is a TERRIBLE idea versus fighting in entrenched positions, let alone the lack of artillery and air support. Also depends on how much deep their tech advantage goes-is it just medical and vibranium-based, or is it across the board?

Generically, I'd reveal Wakanda to the world, but have limited interaction for the next generation.

For the rest of the world: Make a deal for vibranium-based energy production, in exchange for an international agreement to either not use vibranium weapons, or starkly limit their use (accepting that everyone that gets some is just going to use it for a futuretech division, and setting your goal as "not being the world's arms dealers"). Leverage that soft power into uplifting the rest of the world-educational outreach, incentives and penalties to encourage stability and growth, aggressively invest in the communities you want to see grow, etc.

For Wakanda: Find out if the heart-shaped herb is actually gone, or can be resurrected/cloned/found somewhere in the forests/etc. Encourage Wakandans to go out and see the world, and discuss how they would like to change your system of government so that someone like Killmonger can't murder his way to tyranny. Good news is you have an heir and a spare that are pretty sane, so you have some time to talk it over. Maybe have the chieftains eligible for the throne be approved/disapproved by their tribes? Maybe have a system in place where a king is overthrown by the ruling of a majority of the governed? Wakanda is small enough to not need THAT much changing in the immediate future, but the time to discuss how you want to adapt to being in a bigger world is NOW, to prepare for the eventuality.

u/SvalbardCaretaker [+5] Mouse Army (16 hours later)

Also depends on how much deep their tech advantage goes-is it just medical and vibranium-based, or is it across the board?

Have you seen their nanotech suits? Nanotech on that level, even if its vibranium based, changes everything. Also apparently some form of direct neural interface system. ... (Heck forget vibranium, just use that nanotech for, well, everything. So broken.)

Stark still needs a trunk to deploy his suit from and AI/voice control/kinesthetic interfaces to control his tech, and uses that on a personalised 1-person basis. Wakanda can mass produce that stuff!

u/CFCrispyBacon [+3] (17 hours later)

True...in that case, fuck all that. Leverage their futuretech nanobullshit to bootstrap the world. Anyone who doesn't get on their social programs gets cut off.

u/WalterTFD [+3] (9 hours later)

How much Panther Spirit are we putting into our Rational Wakanda?

Like, obviously the hand to hand leadership is dumb, so presumably that is a constraint imposed on us by the Spirit.

Heart Shaped Herb is similar, can we give super powers to any/everybody, or only those that the Spirit approves of as part of its arcane leadership tests?

u/RynnisOne [+6] (10 hours later)

Rational Spirit: The panther spirit came from the first King who was also a superhero whose power was that he could exist in a disembodies state and fuse with others. Each generation of King was taken away at the moment of death by the First King, all merging into a gestalt that grows greater and more knowledgeable over the years. The Herb Quest allows one to temporarily fuse with the spirit while still alive so that it can advise/judge the next King, although one with sufficient willpower van still resist.

Why isn't this thing in charge? Well, for one, it's rather forgotten a lot about mortality, which is why each King is advised primarily by the previous one. More importantly, it sees itself as an advisor, slowly educating and nudging it's descendants toward some great goal that requires it not to reveal it's existence to the world or universe as a whole until it's plan to save it's people can come to fruition.

The hand to hand combat is ritualized, serving more as a test for the King,one of many. There are tests of intelligence, skill, history, etc, and a prospective king must pass them all. Fighting is necessary to determine the physical hardiness of the King, his ability to survive the Vision Quest, and as his role as the Black Panther itself.

u/FenrirW0lf [+3] (11 hours later)

Killmonger's dad wouldn't have been incorporated into such a being though, so I don't think that scenario would adequately explain why K saw him during his own Herb Quest.

My guess is that the Quest doesn't involve any supernatural interactions with the dead at all; it just induces a hallucinogenic state in those who undergo it, and the things they see are guided by their expectations of what the ritual does.

u/RynnisOne [+3] (12 hours later)

I assumed Rational Wakanda would deviate from the movie significantly. Im not trying to make it fit 100% because, being Rational, it wouldn't.

Plus, what expectations did Lilongwe have? Surely nothing like what he got.

u/FenrirW0lf [+3] (12 hours later)

Right. The OP seems to be talking about how to act rationally given the premise of the film as it happened, but your take on the Panther Spirit is definitely cool from an AU perspective.

As to what expectations he might have carried into the ritual, that's a good question. I'm guessing he knew something about what the quest involves since he clearly researched enough to engineer a successful takeover of the kingdom. And he did believe that he was the rightful successor to the throne so it's not like he was expecting to be rejected by the test.

u/hoja_nasredin [+2] Dai-Gurren Brigade (4 days later)

liking this a lot. Ancient beings able to let go and just observe future generation is a pretty rare trope.

u/None [+6] (11 hours later)

Go with the film. There doesn't seem.to be any panther spirit in it nor does the herb show any signs of being discriminating.

u/boomfarmer [+1] Trying to be helpful (5 days later)

The herb doesn't show any signs of being discriminating, sure, but our sample is two (2) very fit men, both of whom are sons of the previous king and both of whom de facto won the ritual combat.

u/None [+3] (2 days later)

You should only sell tech. China is doing this with Neodym (Is for powerful magnets important.)

1. Not reveal Wakanda (I love secrets too much). But start plans in case it gets revealed. (If you want to be rational, you should reveal it.)

2. Give my citizens fucking pants. And flying cars. I would only sell so much Vibranium (and only in tech) that they wouldn't develop an alternative to it. And I would talk with other countries before I reveal it. Starting with the ones, that already know about Wakanda. I would try to play it cool. Like pretending Wakanda was always there, and always that powerful. I wouldn't give a press conference.

With more influence because of Vibranium sales and healing magic tech, I would try to stabilize other countries (starting nearest to Wakanda) and uplift them. At the same time giving my military time and oportunity to adapt to modern warfare. I would try to start an African Union (Wakanda is in Africa?), to get more influence.

I assumed T'Challa wants the best for his country and not fuck over other countries, maybe benefiting them.

But anyone else sees a problem with telling afro-american kids they should identify with a foreign king who hides healing magic tech and other techs from their country and plans to leave the USA to go to Africa. Euro-American kids get Captain America. (And spiderman, ironman, dr strange, hawkeye, blackwidow, antman,...)

okay I know black panther was made in the 60s and then the back-to-Africa-movement was popular among African-Americans (so BP wasn't in mean spirit). But still, I think that BP is very dubious. Still better than 6 of the 8 new spiderman movies.

u/SimoneNonvelodico [+7] Dai-Gurren Brigade (3 days later)

Give my citizens fucking pants.

That's just prejudicial. They're in central Africa. It's fucking hot. Why do you want to inflict such torture on them? They like their clothes pantless, and so would I if the climate and social customs allowed it, thank you very much.

u/None [+1] (3 days later)

yeah maybe I should say, clothes that make them look like they are from this century.

Give everyone a blackpanther suit. Or an iron man suit (and show tony how overpowered wakanda is).

u/SimoneNonvelodico [+4] Dai-Gurren Brigade (3 days later)

I mean... it's still really partial. Clothing is one of the most subjective, cultural things that there are. Every culture finds every other culture's weird or ridiculous, and their own the most natural thing in the world. If they are from this century, by definition, they look like it - it's you who needs to extend his definition of what "looking like they're from this century" entails.

u/None [+1] (3 days later)

really? You look at the gorilla tribe and think 21th century?

But yeah I was over the top. And I thought all of the female soldiers had the belly free dresses, the two at the start of the movie had. If you look at the clothes of people not cosplaying as a primitive tribe (I don't find a foto of ~1:08:20 where Erik Killmonger delivers the body, the 'villagers' still have the excuse their blanket generate forcefields) you will see, they are much more 21th century

btw most wear pants or at least shorts even the gorilla tribe ;-)

u/SimoneNonvelodico [+3] Dai-Gurren Brigade (4 days later)

The Jabari live in the mountains though. It's pretty cold up their place.

Funny thing: before going to Japan last summer, I did not realise just how popular kimonos still are. A distinctly ancient style of clothing, they're now used for pretty much any fancy occasion, like parties or even visits to the temple. And of course new ones have modern, colourful patterns - the making updated with the time, but the cut is still the same as a very old fashioned article of clothing. Apparently, in South Korea, the traditional hanbok is undergoing a similar modern resurgence.

I think Wakanda may be similar to Japan in that sense. Modern but also still very attached to its traditional roots. The Jabari look... silly, true, but mostly because those costumes are just a hodgepodge of stereotypes, and not what would likely result from a natural evolution of old styles into modern ones. For a movie so worried of being anticolonialist, Black Panther surely has some very prejudiced ideas of what makes an African society African - aka funny clothes made with animal skins and tribal duels to the death. Either way, really, people should just wear what they want to. If I ruled a country where people enjoy going around their lives in Naruto cosplay, it'd be their call anyway. There's nothing rational about deciding that one style of clothes is superior to another outside of something like "layers of fur are better than a T-shirt and hot pants if you're walking in the middle of the Siberian tundra". Or clothing habits that can be outright unhealthy such as corsets.

u/buckykat [+4] (13 hours later)

Finish Killmonger's crucial anti-imperialist work.

u/None [+2] (13 hours later)

Good one.

u/SoylentRox [+1] (6 days later)

Since the Vibranium appears to be a substance in extremely limited quantities, at least relative to potential global demands, the immediate future thing for Wakanda to do would be to sell services.

Manufacturing and medical, at a minimum. Even if they aren't willing to export products containing a significant amount of vibranium, their ridiculous bullshit tech should be able to make export products that are almost as bullshit. And of course medical services, that alone would make their GDP one of a firstworld country in terms of hard currency.

I guess it is true that they don't need anything. They seem to be so advanced there is nothing anyone but Tony Stark or other rare, high tech characters in the MCU can offer. Oh, and Dr. Strange probably has all kinds of good stuff, but his organization's magic items do not appear to be mass producible, or something he can just share out even if they could be reproduced.

I guess the problem I have is that the whole concept of a tiny kingdom developing tech far more advanced than the rest of the earth, totally in secret...tech advances just don't happen that way. Except in comic books. But I guess in the MCU's alternate laws of physics, different slightly from our own in some ways with lots of extra stuff, that's just a normal thing.

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