scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/8lpdwu.md

[RT][WIP] Worth the Candle, ch 95-100

• Author: u/cthulhuraejepsen Fruit flies like a banana*

• URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/11478249/chapters/34078007

• Score: 236

• Created: 2018-05-24T02:57:57

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u/cthulhuraejepsen [+55] Fruit flies like a banana (7 minutes later)

I updated Patreon with tiers and goals, most notably 24-hour early release and setting up a Discord; special thanks to my wife for helping with things that I didn't want to spend my own time on, but which probably are necessary steps towards full-time authorship that should be done now, rather than later.

Read after you've gotten to the end of this batch:

u/saitselkis [+19] (an hour later)

Right up there with hpmor and unsong, I'm sorry if the comparison is unflattering, but I'm absolutely loving your work.

u/eroticas [+5] (11 hours later)

Do you not write full time currently? Any tips on how to achieve your speed and quality?

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+16] Fruit flies like a banana (11 hours later)

I'm currently a stay-at-home dad, so writing mostly happens after my son goes to bed, or occasionally when he's taking his afternoon nap (if I don't need to take a nap with him, which I often do). The economic question is sort of whether I can justify writing full-time once he's in kindergarten, or whether it will be part-time work and part-time writing, or just working full-time (probably as a software engineer, which is what I did before).

As for writing, the first thing I'd suggest is that you spend a lot of time writing, and a lot of time thinking about writing. That naturally has to be combined with reading so that you can see how other people write, and pick up as many of their good habits as you can. Writing is a muscle, and you have to build it up, mostly by pushing yourself in different directions and putting in the effort. I was always pretty fast though, and I think if it were easy to be in the top 1% of writers by speed, more people would do it.

Also, I co-host a podcast that's mostly about writing and fiction with Daystar Eld, Rationally Writing, which you can find here or here, so that's about forty hours of me talking about the writing process (though we unfortunately don't have transcripts).

u/None [+8] (14 hours later)

For anyone who missed it the most recent episode is an interveiw with /u/cthulhuraejepsen talking about the thought process behind WTC, which was really excellent http://daystareld.com/podcast/rationally-writing-42/

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+5] Fruit flies like a banana (14 hours later)

Also probably of interest is the episode on the intersection of tabletop RPGs and writing, for obvious reasons (recorded before I started writing this particular story).

u/eroticas [+2] (13 hours later)

Yeah I've been meaning to listen to those! I haven't because the lack of transcript means consuming at listening speed rather than reading speed, if someone is willing to transcribe I'm sure I'm not the only person who'd be more likely to access it.

In between sleeping times doesn't seem like you have a lot of time. How many hours a day would you say you spend writing?

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+5] Fruit flies like a banana (14 hours later)

Between two and six hours, though there are occasional days that I don't write, or I write something that's not Worth the Candle. Six hours of writing essentially means that I'm using absolutely all my free time for the day and staying up later than I should, which happens sometimes if I'm in a groove or really itching to get some specific scene or moment on the page. (I have a bad habit of sacrificing sleep.)

u/Brokndremes [+1] (19 hours later)

For the listening speed bit I've found it's not too bad when playing stuff at around 1.5-2x speed helps.

u/PresentCompanyExcl [+1] The Culture (3 days later)

That same reasoning kept me from listening to podcasts. But I started edging the speed up and got to 1.8x over a couple weeks, and could do exercise and chores at the same time. Might be worth a try for you.

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+2] Fruit flies like a banana (3 days later)

Yeah, I do the same, and don't otherwise listen to podcasts if I can't. 2x speed is a bit slower than I can read if I'm trying to go fast, but not that much slower. I do like something to do with my eyes and body though, like going for a walk or driving.

u/josephwdye [+5] I love you (57 minutes later)

fuck yeah, get that patreon money.

u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (2 days later)

Can I just point out that WtC is now attracting a comparable level of subreddit participation (comments, upvotes) to MoL? So, you know you're doing something right :)

u/Amonwilde [+2] (12 hours later)

Great copy on the tiers. I think you'll see a big difference in income, and that's good for us, too.

u/nineran [+1] (13 hours later)

Ha. >!I look forward to the next batch :)!<

u/PDNeznor [+1] (a day later)

(Spoilers I guess?) A great way to avoid the planning fallacy is to not have any plans at all. I was wondering how you were going to wrap up a whole pregnancy in the last couple paragraphs.

u/CouteauBleu [+53] We are the Empire. (5 hours later)

You know, I really feel like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber should be used for the betterment of mankind, but you're obviously just using it to write your webserial. Shame on you.

u/CouteauBleu [+52] We are the Empire. (7 hours later)

“Perhaps,” said Amaryllis. “The argument,” she grunted again, adding in a little bit of lunge that saw her without any handholds for a fraction of a second, “Is that whatever chance there was for a fruitful partnership between us, we acted in such a way that it could never happen.” She glanced at the handholds. “And at the end of it, we suffered some enormous expenses to kill one of the most proficient soul mages in the entire world. Given that he was in prison when we found him, it really wasn’t worth it.”

The thing that weirds me out about that arc, that they are never discussing, is that Fallatehr (or someone close to him) betrayed them first, when he sent them a void grenade before they even had a chance to talk.

We still don't know for sure whether it was him or one of his brainwashed minions who did it, but either way, it reflects pretty abysmally on him, and it makes aggressive mistrust a pretty rational choice.

But it's weird because it never comes up. Nobody tells Fallatehr "How can we trust you when you already had one of us killed in cold blood!", and when they discuss whether they should trust him / have trusted him, they focus on the potential of soul magic and not the fact that, hey, he already murdered one of them without provocation.

u/Makin- [+22] homestuck ratfic, you can do it (15 hours later)

In Fallatehr's defense, it was likely they were there to kill him, so responding with a grenade is more misguided self defense or paranoia than a betrayal.

u/thrawnca [+7] Carbon-based biped (5 days later)

And after they did let him out, he took the first opportunity to subvert a party member, lied about it and made Valencia do the same. Then he later used Grak to trap and likewise subvert Amaryllis, while arranging for Juniper to lose his essentialism skills so he couldn't resist being subverted in turn. His endgame would basically be that the whole party becomes Fallatehr worshippers, or maybe they all become Fallatehr.

And throughout all of this, they tried to take precautions, but I don't recall them ever betraying him.

What more were they supposed to do?

u/CouteauBleu [+3] We are the Empire. (5 days later)

They conspicuously arranged for his thralls to die during the prison escape (or at least, very visibly made zero effort to save them).

They also made it very clear (implicitly) that they were only going to keep him around as long as they needed to, and that they would kill him after that.

The situation Fallatehr was in was the same Joon and Fenn were at the zombie city: even though Fireteam Blackheart did not explicitly betray Joon at any point, they placed a death collar on him and their behavior made it clear that Joon would not outlive his usefulness, same for Fenn.

Again, it can be justified by the grenade thing, which is why I'm surprised they never mention it again. Without the grenade, Grak's point ("Is that whatever chance there was for a fruitful partnership between us, we acted in such a way that it could never happen") makes way more sense.

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (5 days later)

If comparing the situation to Fireteam Blackheart, I think we need to make substantial allowances for Fallatehr being a notorious and highly dangerous criminal, not just a sneak thief or a randomly encountered stranger. Security measures against him are just common sense. And yet, Team Joon never put a kill switch on him.

I also consider Grak an unreliable witness, because he spent a good deal of that time as Fallatehr's happy thrall. That would have caused him to develop a negative perception of his teammates' paranoia regarding his idol, considering them to be overreacting, and that perception wouldn't necessarily just disappear when Fallatehr was devalued.

u/thrawnca [+2] Carbon-based biped (6 days later)

OK, I've just reread all those chapters during proofreading, and not only do I challenge the idea that they ruined it by being too paranoid, I think it's clear that they weren't even paranoid enough. In Juniper's very first lesson, before they even left the prison island, Fallatehr grabbed the opportunity to completely subvert Grak - and was then amused by their "unnecessary" precautions in trying to isolate Grak. He probably was amused, not because they were reacting to nothing, but because he knew that their efforts were insufficient or even futile. He later claimed that he simply wanted information, and made Grak loyal so he wouldn't reveal it - but what was his next move? He pivoted, using his control of Grak to capture Amaryllis.

And incidentally, "I wanted information" isn't actually a good enough reason to make someone your mind-slave. Especially someone who just broke you out of prison. And the fact that they disrupted your plans in doing so doesn't actually make it better when those plans were, "maintain an army of brainwashed clone servants and summarily kill off visitors."

Even Fallatehr's offer of compromise during their final confrontation rings rather hollow. He may have been legitimately interested in becoming Juniper's teacher, but that clearly was to be on his terms. As soon as he thought that he had the upper hand, his offer shifted from "transmit memories for me to study remotely" to "give me full control of your soul and I won't kill your friends."

Sure, the situation was a huge lost opportunity, but all the defection was coming from Fallatehr Inc., not from Team Joon.

u/eroticas [+0] (2 days later)

It's a crapsack world and they've all done similar to others (especially Amy and Fenn) so they really aren't ones to talk?

u/PantsuWitch [+44] (8 minutes later)

Six chapters at once! I love you, cthulhuraejepsen.

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+44] Fruit flies like a banana (15 minutes later)

Yeah, it's ~32K words, which is more than I would typically like in one go, but I try to make the chapter dumps follow logical transition points in the story (above and beyond the transition points that differentiate chapters). I think it helps make the thing read better, as well as helps me ensure that relatively atomic chunks of story are internally well-put-together.

u/Fresh_C [+28] (an hour later)

Thanks for doing things this way. I really prefer reading stories in finished arcs as opposed to waiting for each chapter to complete.

When you release them this way, it makes it much easier to know when the story has reached a point that I'll be satisfied when I stop reading.

u/vaegrim [+14] (an hour later)

I was frustrated and felt the opposite at first; then I realized I was being silly and could just ration the individual chapters to my own preference.

u/Imperialgecko [+7] (36 minutes later)

How much did you write daily on average this month?

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+23] Fruit flies like a banana (an hour later)

In terms of time or word count?

Word count actually gets entered into a spreadsheet, and it's currently ~1,890 words per day for the month (higher, if you include work on stories other than this one).

Time is a little harder to figure out, but usually a minimum of two hours a day, and a maximum of six, though I'm often doing other things while writing. If it's an average of four hours a day, then I guess that would be close to a hundred hours, but a lot of that time is spent with split focus (e.g. trying to sneak in some writing while my son is playing with his trucks, or going back and forth between writing and breaks on reddit or Youtube). There's probably some kind of productivity tracker I could use, but I try not to sweat that stuff too much, because getting in a "I have to write X words over Y hours" mindset isn't great creatively, at least for me.

u/None [+4] (11 hours later)

That's a spectacular rate

u/Hermaan [+3] (6 hours later)

Yes!! I had things to do today.

u/detrebio [+2] (9 hours later)

I love you, Alexander Wales

u/Watchful1 [+46] (3 hours later)

Anyone else think the Ropy interaction was kinda cute? Two beings who have only rarely met someone of their kind and they like each other at first glance?

u/rubix314159265 [+66] (5 hours later)

During Ropey's introduction, Joon mentioned that he vaguely remembered that he fell in love with a sentient sword. The house's original sentience was sparked by just such a sword. And this is my new wierdest ship.

u/LazarusRises [+34] (11 hours later)

No, it's a house.

u/lmbfan [+8] (16 hours later)

Why not both? A house boat. I wonder if an airship could be considered a type of house? Or a space craft colony ship type thing...

Can't wait to see what's in store next.

u/aeschenkarnos [+13] (21 hours later)

Some say a microphone is just a camera for sound.

u/None [+6] (2 days later)

House memes are going to be for this fandom what Kenzie was for Ward, I'm guessing.

u/Chosen_Pun [+1] The Chosen Ones (4 days later)

That's actually where the -phone part comes from, after another device that is essentially just a camera

u/PeridexisErrant [+2] put aside fear for courage, and death for life (a day later)

Are you going to tell the Anyhouse Bethel that she can't be a houseboat?

u/Rorschach_Roadkill [+18] (13 hours later)

Yes - but also kind of sad to be reminded that Ropey is literally sentient and has been used as nothing more than an extra limb this entire time

u/None [+24] (20 hours later)

Eh. If Ropey is sentient the same way that the house was, then he simply wants to be put to good use as a rope, which is exactly what Joon does. I presume he's happy with his life.

u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (2 days later)

I'm not sure what wants or needs Ropey might have. The usual food, clothing, and shelter don't apply. He spends plenty of time with people, and could easily start conversations if he wanted to - so presumably socialisation, at least with humans, isn't important to him. His bodily integrity isn't threatened; the party wouldn't willingly damage him any more than anyone else sentient.

Overall, it seems unlikely that he has unvoiced complaints.

u/None [+13] (11 hours later)

I'm really curious what his high seed writing was saying, does that imply Ropey is fully human level sapient? There's a whole personality in there we haven't heard from

u/BlueSigil [+7] (23 hours later)

At the least, we know that both Ropey and Bethel can communicate and thus think much faster than the non-entad members of the party.

u/LLJKCicero [+7] (a day later)

Just because he can make rope characters faster than human eyes can interpret doesn't necessarily mean he can think faster.

Like if there was a computer screen transcribing what I said aloud, but only showing one character at a time, it'd be pretty hard to follow.

u/BlueSigil [+1] (a day later)

You are right about the single character thing, but Ropey was listening to Bethel talk too

u/Kachajal [+36] (3 hours later)

Okay, fuck. Not done reading the chapters yet, but that letter from Fenn is perhaps the most adorable, sad, emotional, I-can't-put-it-into-words thing I've read in fiction recently.

I really, really enjoyed that.

u/xartab [+3] (a day later)

After reading that I felt the urge to punch something repeatedly, and I'm a little put out that Joon didn't. In fact his emotional response to the whole thing seems a bit weak.

Also, Fenn reading his response while in the HTC could've been a fine time to one-up her loyalty.

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+25] Fruit flies like a banana (25 seconds later)

Typos here, please.

(There will be a mild retcon to Grak's hand, which should have a prothesis from Earth, as pointed out here, I just haven't gotten around to it (though I did do the research).)

u/major_fox_pass [+4] (29 minutes later)

I was hoping that she reciprocated

Is this part a tense error? I dunno, I'm no grammar-ologist, but it seems to me like "I was hoping that she would reciprocate" would work better. I could be wrong.

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+3] Fruit flies like a banana (an hour later)

Fixed, thanks.

u/Laborbuch [+6] (5 hours later)

98

If you ask me, and I know that you would if you could, I think maybe this is some fallout from when she took away from her love of you.

I’m never sure with this phrase. One has love for someone, as in, if A loves B, then A contains love directed at B. Of is in my comprehension far more ambiguous. If we say “The love of A for B” it’s clearly A’s love, but remove the for and say something like “The love of A of B” would reasonably parse as A’s love for B, but could also be read as the love for A by B. There’s… ambiguity. In that vein, “she took away from her love of you.” would reasonably be read as “Amy took away from Amy’s love for Joon.” Given the pliability of emotions by soulfuckery, though, it could also be read as “Amy took away from Joon’s love for Amy.”

I know I’m probably making mountains of molehills here, but I like biuniqueness, especially in communication, even if it’s tedious. We build pictures and narratives of other people in our heads by what they say to and emote at us, but that medium is communication is faulty. It serves for the most part, but we won’t recognise the assumptions we make about the intentions of the message the other sent us, assuming we understood what they meant, and be right a lot of the time, but it’s the times we are wrong that screw us over.

In personal communication there’s no parity bit to check against.

I recognise my problem with your phrasing is probably rooted in this afore-described beef with communication and preference in biuniqueness, but I felt it worth mentioning, if only to make myself think through and acknowledge this personal bias.

I would look up his clan, but from what he’s said, they were fairly small, and there are an enormous number of those tiny, insular dwarf clans, so.” She shook her head.

I feel like a full stop isn’t the right punctuation here. A — or … would’ve fit better.

99

couldn’t produce, and the which the clonal kit couldn’t be convinced

remove “the”

The way Amaryllis saw it, so long as we took all of the low-hanging, the actual cost to us could be mitigated.

fruit

I’d had half a mind to start doing that during out time in the chamber,

during our

100

To be honest, I was a little bit afraid, in much the same way that I’d been afraid of the changes the Valencia had undergone.

Remove “the” or change Valencia to another descriptor.

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+2] Fruit flies like a banana (22 hours later)

Altered to "when she took away her love of you", but I don't know when I did that, because I went to go make the change and it was already changed. shrug

I feel like a full stop isn’t the right punctuation here. A — or … would’ve fit better.

To me, "so ..." is kind of a drawn out sound, like "sooooo", or trailing off, while "so —" is almost cut off. The reason it was "so." is because the sentence is just coming to an end there without ceremony. (I imagine that using punctuation like that probably drives some people nuts, but it's my preference.)

Fixed all the rest.

u/aeschenkarnos [+3] (an hour later)

Hopefully improved from Earth standards by Amaryllis - if she can make a VCR from parts, she can definitely do better than the Earth norm for prosthetic hands.

When/if Grak gets to Loyalty 10, do you expect Joon will be able to heal the amputation using soul and bone magic?

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+10] Fruit flies like a banana (2 hours later)

I'm not actually sure how good you can make a prosthetic without microchips, which is what most of the modern ones use in order to allow people to have movable fingers and full(er) range of motion in the limb. The problem with losing a hand is that unless you connect directly to the nerves themselves, you have to move the prosthetic fingers using existing muscles, usually by repurposing some muscle function you don't usually use. For example, the "hook" hands usually co-opt shoulder movement; you clamp or release using a kind of rolling motion of your shoulder. (There's a fiction book by Max Barry, Machine Man that goes into some of the problems with prosthetics from an engineering and design standpoint. As a fun fact, it was also written serially, one (short) update a day.) We're passing some of those hurdles now, but the missing piece, aside from investment, seems to have been on-board programming and connecting to existing nerves. (Note: amateur opinion)

Grak got his Loyalty 10 in ch 78, which gave him the ability to see magic without his warder's monocle, among other things.

I'll have to RAFO the other question, because it will get discussed in a future chapter, but the only on-screen amputations have been Joon's fingers in ch 21, and his hand in ch 50, both of which were fixed with a level up.

u/aeschenkarnos [+1] (21 hours later)

Can you make a VCR without microchips?

I actually was thinking she'd made an old-fashioned reel-to-reel projector, until you explicitly said VCR at some point.

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+10] Fruit flies like a banana (22 hours later)

She had made a reel-to-reel projector, and didn't make a VCR until sometime during Joon's second month.

Integrated circuits were invented in 1959, while broadcast-quality video recording was available in 1958, so that's a simple "yes" on whether you can do it without microchips. I watched this video as a primer on VCR technology, just to make sure I correctly understood the mechanisms employed, and so far as I can see, it's entirely analog from tape to screen, which helps matters significantly.

There is the question of what size and form her version of a VCR would take, but I'm going to leave that vague rather than declare its specifications outright, since I worry I would piss off someone with a hyper-specialized knowledge of how you'd go about building a VCR if you were in her shoes. (Though if someone has the engineering chops to keep me informed, I'd be happy to include more details in revision.)

Edit: Shit, I meant to say that magnetic tape broadcast-quality video recording was available in 1958, before that they used aluminum disc for something like twenty years, or a different method that was essentially pointing a television camera at a film projection (or vice versa).

u/Kerbal_NASA [+3] (6 hours later)

ch. 96

If he was a soft and fat teenager, not so different from average, how did his translation to Aerb allow him to become the father of the modern eras?

Not sure but, translation->transition is what I think you meant? Translation works too I suppose.

Well, that’s the other things to unpack

things->thing

ch. 97

The mayor is a nothing more than a squatter

is a nothing -> is nothing

and then crept down into the Boundless Pit to become a haunted house for a five centuries

for a five -> for five

ch. 100

She held out her hand, and a note appeared it

appeared it -> appeared in it

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+2] Fruit flies like a banana (22 hours later)

Translation is what I meant, partly because it's a somewhat technical/archaic word choice.

Fixed all the rest, thanks.

u/Kerbal_NASA [+2] (a day later)

Ah, yeah, "translation" makes a lot of sense then, TIL. I like that I learn a lot of them big fancy-type words from your work.

u/major_fox_pass [+2] (an hour later)

Ch. 97

I hesitate to say that he meant for me to kill him, but that is anothe possibility.”

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+2] Fruit flies like a banana (an hour later)

Fixed, thanks!

u/Kilbourne [+2] (3 hours later)

Chapter 100

“I think this good,” said Amaryllis.

Change to:

“I think this is good,” said...

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+2] Fruit flies like a banana (22 hours later)

Fixed, thanks.

u/Kilbourne [+1] (22 hours later)

Great work!

u/pitafred [+2] (3 hours later)

Chapter 98, first paragraph of Letter 15:

“I thought was a bit funny”

Unsure if intentional typo, since it is something written by a character.

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+2] Fruit flies like a banana (22 hours later)

Unintentional typo, fixed, thank you.

u/SvalbardCaretaker [+2] Mouse Army (9 hours later)

96:but sometimes she’d shut down and +[she'd] want to blow past whatever the topic of conversation was.

Not really sure about this one but it reads wrong to me.

96: Fenn, with blood pooled beneath her and stab slashes across her chest, arms and stomach.-[.]

97: when you picked it up. I thought +[it] was a bit funny.

99: The way Amaryllis saw it, so long as we took all of the low-hanging +[fruit]

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+2] Fruit flies like a banana (22 hours later)

Fixed those, thanks!

On the first one, it reads correctly to me. Equivalent would be "sometimes she'd [x] and [y]"? Not sure on the actual grammatical rules though, or setting those aside, whether it's a phrasing that's unnatural/troublesome to most people.

u/nytelios [+2] (21 hours later)

95

but I was doing the (my) best to respect her choice.

Cho(o)se correctly for a kiss as your prize.

96

I’m saying, basically, that if you’ve got a bunch of metrics, right?

98

I think I mentioned this is (in) one of the other letters

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+2] Fruit flies like a banana (22 hours later)

Fixed, thanks!

u/thrawnca [+2] Carbon-based biped (a day later)

Chapter 95:

The material for the shorts, in particular, were/The material for the shorts, in particular, was

the doors closed up - earlier in the chapter it's treated as a single door.

Chapter 100:

millenia/millennia (occurs multiple times)

And aww, Fenn needs so many hugs!...after the whole delivery thing.

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+1] Fruit flies like a banana (5 days later)

Fixed those, thanks.

It's established on introduction that there are two doors to the time chamber, I think that I sometimes use "the door" when meaning "one of the two doors", as when saying "Amaryllis opened the door" to mean "Amaryllis opened one of the two doors". This is needlessly confusing, so I changed it.

u/CouteauBleu [+1] We are the Empire. (13 hours later)

that the backpack was only grabbing things that literally existed on Earth, rather than that plausibly might have come from Earth

I think these two are meant to be swapped.

u/sparr [+6] (16 hours later)

I think not.

What this is saying is that they can only request a printout if someone has actually ever printed the thing out, not just things that COULD have been printed out.

Separately, this theory would be stronger if the printouts they got obviously came from different web browsers or printers, or the print/paper was of different freshness.

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (3 days later)

Older ones:

Chapter 1

attempt to yelling/attempt at yelling

down into sky/down into the sky

ringing in my ear; strength/ringing in my ear: strength

brought machete down/brought the machete down

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+1] Fruit flies like a banana (5 days later)

Fixed those, thanks.

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (4 days later)

Chapter 2

brought up a tooltips/brought up tooltips

which familiar enough/which were familiar enough

not poking holes/not to poke holes

prevent her from getting its hands/prevent her from getting her hands

Chapter 3

against you, obvious/against you, obviously

looking my character sheet/looking at my character sheet

saw something I'd missed;/saw something I'd missed:

Chapter 4

enough for that I was fairly certain/enough that I was fairly certain

coloring of the cars out front were/coloring of the cars out front was

one of the things I had been looking for;/one of the things I had been looking for:

sweeped/swept

I found a surprise;/I found a surprise:

Chapter 5

given some thought on/given some thought to

a that point/at that point

Chapter 6

just natural phenomenon/just natural phenomena

How is that not dumb./How is that not dumb?

Chapter 8

both the huger and/both the hunger and

routine that looks/routine that looked

Chapter 9

hasn't change/hasn't changed

a blood magi/a blood magus

Witchita/Wichita

thirty-story/thirty-storey

smugglers routes/smugglers' routes

; the sewers./: the sewers.

Chapter 11

rather than thin/rather than the thin

none of the others did either - I think this should be "all of the others were too".

stories-tall/storeys-tall

anymore than/any more than

Chapter 12

And in addition being/And in addition to being

ideal strike force;/ideal strike force:

which, we are,/which we are,

Chapter 13

seige/siege

their skills to revive/their skills to survive

have comfortably drove/have comfortably driven

Chapter 14

four stories/four storeys

section on metal/section of metal

twenty-story/twenty-storey

sunlight-lit/sunlit

tricks that I could,/tricks that I could try,

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+1] Fruit flies like a banana (5 days later)

Alright, fixed all those.

(Storey/story is a British/American English thing, and though I mix them fairly freely, this story would ideally be standardized to American.)

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (4 days later)

Chapter 15

Scattered Asches/Scattered Ashes

hours worth/hours' worth

in the form of leap/in the form of a leap

Chapter 16

If it had gone over/If I had gone over

Amaryllis has given me/Amaryllis had given me

saying, simply "Kindly Bones"/saying simply, "Kindly Bones"

second story/second storey

a handful paper notes/a handful of paper notes

gracefully offered - this isn't necessarily wrong, but perhaps the intended wording was "graciously offered"?

Chapter 17

and in the, um,/and the, um,

an temporary/a temporary

propse/propose

Chapter 18

bought her hands up/brought her hands up

Chapter 22

is screaming to,"/is screaming too,"

Chapter 23

leave here until unless/leave here until and unless

Chapter 24

and the blood all fall/and the blood will fall

Chapter 25

about the loyalty increased/about the loyalty increase

get my foot/get my footing

Chapter 26

; fast, strong/: fast, strong

Chapter 28

hunderds/hundreds

hazy of/hazy on

been happy help me/been happy to help me

Chapter 29

; the Dark Lord had shown up/: the Dark Lord had shown up

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+1] Fruit flies like a banana (5 days later)

Fixed all those, thanks!

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (5 days later)

Chapter 34

favoring her left hand - actually, to favor a limb suggests that it's the injured one.

about to run up/about to run out

pour our efforts in/pour our efforts into

Chapter 35

Duel Wield/Dual Wield

be permanent fixture/be a permanent fixture

is going take/is going to take

Chapter 37

an arms-length/an arm's-length

anachrosyndicalist/anarchosyndicalist

a very simple reason;/a very simple reason:

Chapter 38

out of the it/out of it

loathe to avoid/keen to avoid OR loath to pursue

Chapter 40

psuedosexual/pseudosexual

his center mass/his center of mass

Chapter 41

as a I stopped/as I stopped

I'm loathe/I'm loath

Chapter 43

and I on the assumption/and on the assumption

accede that's a possibility/concede that's a possibility

gave us small smile/gave us a small smile

Chapter 44

Amaryllis and Fenn I had both stumbled across/Both Amaryllis and Fenn I had stumbled across

and entire ecosystem/an entire ecosystem

Chapter 45

Amaryllis expression/Amaryllis' expression

Chapter 46

few minutes walk/few minutes' walk

Chapter 47

whether the other four or five came from/where the other four or five came from

Chapter 49

figure this new haircut out./figure this new haircut out?

probalistic/probabilistic

Chapter 50

landed in roll/landed in a roll

hadn't turned tail and ran/hadn't turned tail and run

Amaryllis has said she could/Amaryllis had said she could

as much of the bulk of the helicopters/as much as possible of the bulk of the helicopters

Chapter 51

"Is she okay,"/"Is she okay?"

along as single factor/along a single factor

strip of the armor/strip off the armor

you've ever ran/you've ever run

Chapter 52

such as strong word/such a strong word

u/Inked_Cellist [+2] (28 days later)

Fixed, thanks!

u/thrawnca [+2] Carbon-based biped (28 days later)

In the end, all accounts are Alexander Wales...

u/Inked_Cellist [+3] (28 days later)

All roads lead to Wales.

I'm actually just his wife though, doing some of the tedious stuff he hates like typo correction.

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (28 days later)

Well, thank you for your work! He's mentioned not liking that part, so I'm glad you're able to help him out.

You shouldn't call yourself "just" his wife, though :). Nothing lesser or limited about it.

u/Inked_Cellist [+2] (28 days later)

No problem - I generally don't mind doing it especially if people like you are doing the grunt work of actually finding the typos. I used to do some copy editing as well (like for Glimwarden and Shadows) but I didn't even know WtC existed until he outed himself and I haven't had time to read it from the beginning yet...

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (6 days later)

Chapter 54

Thousand Faces , - extra space

seize the sword from stone/seize the sword from the stone

Chapter 55

between Fenn and I/between Fenn and me

linked to him like you were/linked to him like we are to you

Chapter 56

If I recalled correctly/If I was remembering correctly (this is needed to match the parentheses)

a pat on chest/a pat on the chest

the largest thing that stood out;/the largest thing that stood out:

Chapter 57

actually having break/actually having to break

statutes at the top/statues at the top

two giants fists/two giant fists

an summer/a summer

enough free reign/enough free rein

Chapter 58

it's too-human mouth/its too-human mouth

Chapter 59

to fight" said/to fight," said

Chapter 60

"Is this a bit?" - I don't understand this question.

wind blow by/wind blew by

shrank it down pulled it free/shrank it down and pulled it free

punched in the head, hard by/punched in the head, hard, by

from were/from where

Chapter 61

the synthesize/then synthesize

her issues...was also/her issues...were also

Falltehr/Fallatehr

looked my direction/looked in my direction

Chapter 63

as many of the pathways that/as many of the pathways as

Chapter 64

showed at currently sitting at/showed as currently sitting at

Chapter 65

a man who would tear apart - should this say "could tear apart"? Amaryllis doesn't trust him, but I didn't think she went that far.

Chapter 67

in heavy wooden rocking chair/in a heavy wooden rocking chair

Chapter 70

Witchita/Wichita

two hour's time/two hours' time

Chapter 71

wasn't the area of expertise/wasn't an area of expertise

Watcha/Whatcha

Chapter 72

who you released/whom you released

Amaryllis hand/Amaryllis' hand

his share of the fairies were/his share of the fairies was

alteration had been done/alteration had been made

Amaryllis dress/Amaryllis' dress

u/Inked_Cellist [+1] (28 days later)

Fixed, thanks!

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (7 days later)

Chapter 81

want to talk about./want to talk about it.

wait to later/wait for later

Chapter 82

accomodated/accommodated

Chapter 84

Aerb had been so slow/Aerb has been so slow

chaise lounges/chaise longues (occurs multiple times)

with the same armor as/with the same armor that

assume the later/assume the latter

Chapter 85

accomodations/accommodations

then down the entire/then downed the entire

Chapter 87

a few days climb/a few days' climb

of by blood/of my blood

Chapter 88

left a an abstract/left an abstract

the other slightly off/another slightly off

Chapter 89

third criteria is/third criterion is

accomodations/accommodations

on Amaryllis outstretched/on Amaryllis' outstretched

Chapter 93

That was where the real problems/that wasn't where the real problems

she had maple syrup/; she had maple syrup

it was part of/; it was part of

Chapter 94

shifting points around/; shifting points around

Chapter 95

the spin-down would still take another few minutes. - It can't take subjectively the same length of time for those inside vs outside, though, can it? Because time inside is always faster than time outside until they align, so the subjective ten minutes on the outside has to be (possibly quite a lot) longer on the inside.

Chapter 97

The walls cutaway/The walls cut away

Chapter 99

meet your acquaintance/make your acquaintance

which were better than Earth/which were better than Earth's

Chapter 100

a left parentheses/a left parenthesis

The hallway undulating/The hallway undulated

then blinked it away/then blinked them away

Beside us were a pile/Beside us was a pile

first looks at my delivery plan and scenario cascade first - double "first"

all its been/all it's been

u/Inked_Cellist [+1] (28 days later)

Fixed, thanks!

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (7 days later)

Chapter 75

millenia/millennia

a elven/an elven

Chapter 76

why the are/why they are

and punching him straight/and punched him straight

took a scissors/took scissors

Chapter 77

this locus things/this locus thing

Chapter 78

belonged to dead god/belonged to a dead god

for mock trial/for a mock trial

sure that she was rebutting my point or not/sure if she was rebutting my point or not

Chapter 79

already deviated from my plans a number of times already - used "already" twice.

Chapter 80

"Good," I said, it's settled. - was "it's settled" supposed to be spoken aloud?

u/Inked_Cellist [+2] (28 days later)

Fixed, thanks!

u/SvalbardCaretaker [+25] Mouse Army (10 hours later)

tag

This actually managed to get a full-on laughing fit from me, an incredibly rare occurence. Well done! The funniest thing I have read in years.

u/saitselkis [+24] (an hour later)

I started this like 4 days ago, burnt through the first 94 chapters and waz struck with the familiar sense of waiting for shit (great story telling) to progress. Woohoo happy for an update. How often do they happen, I feel like i just got lucky on entering the fandom and an update.

u/Escapement [+38] Ankh-Morpork City Watch (2 hours later)

Writing pace is very fast. The first chapter went up ~450000 minutes ago, and there are 535883 words posted, so he's going more than a word per minute of writing continuously on average.

u/Sarkavonsy [+19] (5 hours later)

Jesus Christ, that is Andrew Hussie levels of productivity.

u/aeschenkarnos [+5] (21 hours later)

Assuming he's spending 1/50 of his life writing at 50wpm, that's roughly half an hour per day, or alternatively two two-hour stints per week, plus unspecified thinking time which may add up to another 4 hours per week. I wonder how productive the maximally productive (competent, and entertaining) author could be?

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+19] Fruit flies like a banana (23 hours later)

50wpm would be 3K words per hour, which would be absolutely insane. My rate is more towards 500 words per hour, sometimes as high as 1000 words per hour when I'm in a nice flow state (and sometimes much lower than 500 words per hour, when my brain isn't behaving).

I can give some comparisons to other authors. Stephen King has a daily word count goal of 2000 words. Same goes for Brandon Sanderson, who also has that as his daily goal. These are famously prolific authors, writing full time. Per Sanderson, the low end of how much he writes is four or five hours a day, which would come out to 500 words per hour.

As another example, Ray Bradbury famously wrote the original version of Farenheit 451 in nine days; it was 25,000 words, and his publisher suggested that he double its length, which he did in another nine days. That's an average of 2,777 words per day, done in a frenzy, and considered so fast that it's notable.

u/eaglejarl [+5] (2 days later)

As another data point, I also average 500 words per hour and hit 1,000 when things are in flow.

u/nytelios [+9] (22 hours later)

If we're talking mainstream fantasy authors, the productivity award almost certainly goes to Sanderson.

u/aeschenkarnos [+3] (22 hours later)

JRR Tolkien was a linguistics professor, he would have written at least a few hundred to a few thousand words per day for his mainstream professional career, in addition to his novels and worldbuilding/backstory writing.

To be fair, both Sanderson and /u/cthulhuraejepsen may write for their mainstream careers (though Sanderson may be full-time) as well.

u/Samuraijubei [+1] (a day later)

Sanderson is actually retired, but he has a very strong work ethic.

u/JiggyRobot [+17] (9 hours later)

Ooof. That Fenn letter chapter. I guess I was already aware that Fenn felt insecure about herself, but after reading that letter and realizing that she thought any of the stuff that had happened to her might be something worth breaking up with her for, I really wanted every single character to just give her a hug.

Great chapters. I am enjoying this arc much more than the Fallahter one, I think the constant paranoia got to me with that arc (not that I disliked that arc mind). Despite initial appearances the house seems much more agreeable than I initially thought, and things not being quite so strained definitely helps my enjoyment here.

It did make me wonder about Ropey though. Ropey clearly has far more intelligence than Joon believed (definitely above toddler level). I wonder if it could be a companion if he actually started to see it as more of its own person (rope?).

u/GlueBoy [+7] anti-skub (17 hours later)

Ropey is too phallic to be a(n official) companion.

u/manbetter [+20] (an hour later)

I like that the many-chapter release coincides with the acceleration from the time chamber, it adds a nice level of meta. As always, fantastic work, thank you!

u/Veedrac [+17] (10 hours later)

Well Bethel is more than a little overpowered. So presumably she's a regenerating mobile tank, plausibly one that can be carried around, with nigh-infinite resources, a time machine and rather absurd magical weapons.

I am struggling to think of a good get-rich quick scheme, though, because presumably the value cap on backpack retrievals still counts even though the size limit could otherwise include planes (or smaller houses). Just magic-ing up libraries, clothing, etc. is the smartest idea I've had so far, which is pretty weak since selling things takes time and just having bars of gold would short-circuit so much. Maybe trying to find jewelry with some quantity of gold (to be melted for its components), and flooding the room with that? Would make being a gold mage pretty fun. Any better ideas?

---

EDIT: Here are some solutions.

1. Drink some gold. The Everflask will then produce that quantity on a daily basis. 100ml of gold is 2kg, or $80k at our prices. More importantly, that's a lot of gold for a gold mage: 700kg per year.

2. Bethel seems to have extremely high fidelity in what she can do, and Fenn's He-Man skit shows the backpack creates things in precisely controlled positions. Thus although you might not be able to pull a car out of thin air, it seems you should be able to pull all of the pieces of a car out in the appropriate place at the same time. Voilá, instant megafactory.

3. EDIT: /u/CaptainMcSmash gives another great solution: try using the Everflask to summon unicorn blood.

u/sparr [+7] (16 hours later)

Do we know if the value limit is aerb value or earth value? If the latter, then just find something super cheap on earth that's valuable on aerb. How much would a $5 solar-recharge LED light be worth on aerb?

u/Veedrac [+8] (16 hours later)

It doesn't seem to be either; you can get a wad of bills, so it isn't Earth value, but you can also get books, so it isn't Aerb value.

u/aeschenkarnos [+5] (21 hours later)

DM fiat?

u/Veedrac [+2] (a day later)

Presumably :-(

u/JusticeBeak [+2] (13 hours later)

They could always bottle and sell fine liquors she produces.

u/Veedrac [+1] (15 hours later)

Fine liquors might trip the value limit for the backpack. Either way it's not a particularly easy method of getting money, unless you can actually conjure up barrels at a time.

u/Shaolang [+2] (17 hours later)

I think the reference is to another entad Bethel consumed before which produces drinks.

u/Veedrac [+1] (18 hours later)

That's limited to a bottle a day, though, and a cheap solution using that (drink of liquid gold, please) would already have been tried.

E: actually, "allowed me to produce any drink from all of history" should include whatever they imbibe now. All they need to do is chug a gold smoothie and they get free income.

u/CaptainMcSmash [+4] (a day later)

That Everflask entad is actually such an overpowered cash cow, I mean it's not like they're strapped for cash now, but the most expensive bottle of wine ever sold was worth $200k. And that's just ordinary wine, imagine some magical wine made from unicorn blood that restored youth and gave you powers or something, some insane drink like that probably exists and would be worth millions of obols. And you could make one of that, every day.

Booze OP, plz nerf.

u/Veedrac [+8] (a day later)

A $200k bottle of wine isn't worth that much because of its intrinsic qualities, but because of its history and some weird quirks of human culture. Much like a copy of the Mona Lisa isn't going to be worth anything hefty, I doubt a copy of the wine would be.

But unicorn blood, now why didn't I think of that?

u/kaukamieli [+1] (17 hours later)

They can get stuff larger than the backpack, so no reason they couldn't get barrels. Surely all the tech would be worth more anyway.

u/None [+17] (11 hours later)

Fenn's letter was honestly one of the most romantic things I've ever read, if thats not weird to say. You managed to capture the strange mix of feelings that comes from being in love amazingly well

u/GaBeRockKing [+16] Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857 (an hour later)

vote for worth the candle on topwebfiction!

---

Internal screaming

6 chapters of buildup for that friggin cliffhanger. brutal, awesome stuff.

u/None [+16] (16 hours later)

The Lesser Deception skill strikes me as a good way to approximate an eidetic memory, restrictions allowing.

..."Don’t talk about me too much,” I said.

“Well, I can hardly think of anything else two women would have to talk about,” said Amaryllis....

This line was self aware bordering on a 4th wall break, I loved it.

u/everything-narrative [+12] Coral, Abide with Rubicon! (8 hours later)

Fenn's story just tore me apart, and Amaryllis' paranoia is just way too relatable — pregnancy complications are just horrifically scary.

u/infomaton [+21] (an hour later)

You're in a Flow State of your own, huh?

“Is it too soon to talk about narrative?” asked Amaryllis.

Amaryllis confirmed as my favorite character. Stole the words right out of my mouth.

“Let’s hope that it doesn’t come to that, now that you’ve said it.”

Oh God.

u/XxChronOblivionxX [+9] (15 hours later)

I don't think the banter has ever been stronger. These chapters have seriously sold me on Joon/Fenn, and even Grak is starting to grow on me now that he has been shown to loosen up.

Bethel is an interesting addition to the cast, no one can ever accuse this fic of not being racially diverse when one member is a deer and another member is a house. I really liked the whole conceit of their group paranoia souring diplomatic relationships before they have the chance to start, and having to really stick their necks out to trigger Bethel's companionship.

u/PurposefulZephyr [+10] (17 hours later)

Lovely thing, so many chapters. Gaped at it in disbelief, but I guess we didn't see an update in a while, huh. :P

I was worried about Amaryllis going off the rails and becoming an inhuman monster, or at least a highly proficient manipulator. Thankfully, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Plenty of character interaction, with my favorite bit being the conversation between Ropey and Zona... though I am worried, since the title for his chapter wasn't comforting.

Speaking of foreboding titles: "Immanentize the Eschaton" felt like Zona or Amaryllis were going to go completely off the rails, but thankfully it was just a problem with the pregnancy.

Not that it won't be a chancy encounter, just... chapter 100 and that kind of title really set off red flags for me. Now we can get to Labor 101. :P

Also, speaking of various bits and pieces:

Flow State: Allows you to enter into an analytical flow state, which temporarily doubles working memory with respect to the subject of analysis, halves the penalties for thirst, hunger, and exhaustion, and increases the chance of a Brilliant Insight by five percent per hour (compounding).

I love brain upgrades. Or thinking upgrades, so those perks were a real morsel. And this, this... felt underused, just another thing he grinded up.

Working memory is the workbench of your mind, and just doubling it's size... it should allow for some advanced considerations of complex problems, like the problems Amaryllis was going to face. Let's not forget the golden nugget of a Brilliant Insight, which could become quite certain with a day to spare...

Actually, wait- does every hour get an increasing chance of Brilliant Insight? Can you get more than one BI for a single usage of a Flow State (regardless of it's length), or one every hour?

Either way- that feels like a big upgrade, and I hope to see it in action.

u/nytelios [+5] (22 hours later)

All I could think about while trying to munchkin Flow State was "hey, people have this superpower in the shower..."

But yes, it does read like the chance increases per hour. Depends on what it means by (compounding) though. If it works like normal interest compounding, it'd be (1+0.05)^hrs. That'd have extraordinary synergy with the time chamber, especially if it gives a capital-B Brilliant Insight.

u/aeschenkarnos [+8] (21 hours later)

Grinding Brilliant Insights may be a worthwhile use of the time chamber. Go in for a subjective week, come out with a recipe for perfect banana fritters, a new spell, the reason why dogs bark at nothing, a technique for morning-star vs halberd combat, a screenplay of a sequel to The Sum of Us (1994), and the overwhelming need to craft an entad.

u/Escapement [+9] Ankh-Morpork City Watch (2 hours later)

That fucking chapter title for the last chapter... Immanatizing the Eschaton is a great title for this chapter.

This story is amazing. I love the plot twists to date.

u/rrssh [+1] (19 hours later)

I don't get the title. It apparently roughly means to rush to the end, so it simply refers to the fact that the pregnancy is over? I think it makes no sense.

u/Escapement [+9] Ankh-Morpork City Watch (20 hours later)

Wikipedia: In political theory and theology, to immanentize the eschaton means trying to bring about the eschaton (the final, heaven-like stage of history) in the immanent world. It has been used by conservative critics as a pejorative reference to certain projects such as Nazism, socialism, communism, anti-racism and transhumanism.[1] In all these contexts it means "trying to make that which belongs to the afterlife happen here and now (on Earth)"

The phrase was also referenced extensively by the Illuminatus! Trilogy. Anyways, it works on a couple of levels, tying in to the resurrection project and denial of the afterlife in favour of making a paradise in this world, not the next, and also the house becoming godlike in some respects, and taking on the name Bethel and turning into a heaven.

u/rrssh [+3] (22 hours later)

It doesn't work for me. At best it's a reference to how we just rushed through 6 chapters to hit the 100.

u/nytelios [+11] (22 hours later)

I also couldn't read any obvious context for the title. But the phrase really sets off the doom and gloom alarm bells in my mind. I was thinking of all the ways that the chapter's events could be literally triggering the end times on Aerb or Earth.

• The combination of the backpack and Anyblade's powers and their integration into one autonomous entity might herald the end of Earth in the long term if Joon's theory that the backpack draws only existing objects on Earth is correct. Might be a stretch given the DM's discretion and limits, but I'm picturing Bethel returning to the Pit after the adventures and endlessly dropping Earth matter down the hole.

• Giving Bethel the decisive entad (Anyblade) that sets her up for godhood? An arbitrarily titanic house with established vindictive streaks roaming Aerb?

• Bethel taking on the legendary name could be foreshadowing a coming cataclysm?

• Bethel may be exempt from Aerb's exclusions. Illusion magic is excluded, yet she can still make illusions (unless...some other magic can produce illusions? seems unlikely).

u/Kuratius [+10] (19 hours later)

You could do all sorts of fun things with a window into the chamber. Slowed time bends light the same way gravitational lensing does. When light changes speed abruptly, part of it gets reflected. I wonder if we would see a similar effect?

Is the time chamber effectively a white hole in the sense that it bends light away from it?

u/Izeinwinter [+3] (2 days later)

The chamber is a perfect insulator - that implies a visual discontinuity at the boundary - Most likely it is simply a perfect mirror.

u/Veedrac [+1] (3 days later)

If I recall how revision magic worked correctly, messing with time probably doesn't have any particularly fun interaction with light.

u/Kuratius [+1] (3 days later)

Build a photon clock. Is the clock slowed?

u/Veedrac [+2] (3 days later)

Given this is a world that burns souls for energy, I'm in no rush to assume photon clocks are a thing.

u/Kuratius [+1] (3 days later)

Technology from earth still works in their world. The thought experiment of a photon clock (and electromagnets working properly) forces relativity to apply to it to some degree. The speed of light being finite is a requirement for the existence of radio waves if they are produced by accelerating charges.

Photon clock would solve whether it is the black hole kind of time diation or the high velocity kind; the black hole kind bends light, the other one doesn't necessarily.

u/Veedrac [+4] (3 days later)

Some technology from Earth still works in their world. We have no idea about the vast majority of it. The issue for me is that I am coming from a scientific standpoint of "I don't know"; I don't know why revision magic seems to treat light differently; I don't know why velocity wards allow light through; I don't know whether radio waves are caused by accelerating charges. I am happy to believe things around the edges of what we've observed, but I'm not going to take leaps I have not justified.

u/detrebio [+7] (8 hours later)

Letter 15 got me teary eyed. Also, even while I was ravenously reading I knew the ending was relatively near, and that simple fact left me wishing for more, more story read, more lore from Aerb and Joon and this little adventure.

It's a special kind of hunger I only get when I'm consuming entertainment I really, really like. Thank you for doing this.

u/GenericBohr [+7] (a day later)

A fan theory I've been noodling lately:

You could make an infinite depth pit by having an array of void weapons pointing down, so long as they can produce void faster than you fall. Presumably you'd also need a magical effect to fill the void with air, so that you'd reach a terminal velocity (and also, ya know, be able to breathe). If you keep accelerating, presumably you'd hit the limit of your void magic.

Because there seems to be a finite volume of water on Aerb (i.e. no infinitely deep lakes), it implies a lack of permanence to the boundless pit, or all the water would have already flowed into it.

If you need access to the sources of magic to Exclude them (which seems necessary, given the Ice Magic story), it could be Uther was trying to Exclude "void" by catching up to the void drills shooting down the boundless pit. But in that case you'd want teleportation magic, maybe try and use revision magic to effectively slow down the descent of things within the pit?

But obviously if you really wanted to explore it you'd have multiple people so one could sleep while the other is the lookout.

I feel Uther would have come to a similar conclusion, so perhaps the pit isn't boundless but actually has a loop in the middle? But then where is all the water going...

I feel the mechanics and exploration of the pit will be important. But I do not know how, or what the mechanics could be.

u/Noumero [+7] Self-Appointed Court Statistician (a day later)

Interesting speculations. Though,

Because there seems to be a finite volume of water on Aerb

That's a major assumption. Perhaps there is some kind of Excluded ex nihilo waterfall, or perhaps the Athenaeum of Water Magic has a duty to humanity to produce X quantities of water per year to replace the water lost to the Pit.

u/icesharkk [+1] (5 days later)

Wouldn't it be easier to just divert the water from flooring into the pit? Yeah yeah tuung habitat but seriously lose water permanently or move the tuung...

u/MadMax0526 [+13] (53 minutes later)

All I can say at that ending is...

Oh, shiiiit!!

u/Laborbuch [+8] (5 hours later)

o a week before we met, I was in prison, held there mostly because Anglecynn might have had a use for me. I was always worried that I’d be part of the next round of sacrifices. That happened sometimes, if you pissed the wrong person off. One day you’re eating shit food and trying not to get on anyone’s bad side, the next you’re facing trial by adversity. I might have fared better than the others, since I had experience on my side, but even if you lived, it was the Host for you, and that was its own pile of shit.

I feel like I’m missing context here…

I keep my mouth shut around you though. I worry about what you’ll say or feel if I tell you about something like the time a guard [strike through]got handsy with me[/strike through] raped me.

takes a deep breath, exhales

…growth.

“A bit,” I said. “I know what you’re going to say though, she’s got a son somewhere out there, and that’s a gun on the mantle.”

The mantle is a reference to a book cover, right?

The house moved around us, creaking and groaning. The hallway shortened, and the closet door disappeared. Fenn held onto me, still with her package of sushi in one hand, and the surfboard banged up against my leg as we began moving. We saw doors sliding past us and closing in on themselves, and rooms collapsing in on themselves.

Moving…? Isn’t this like the reversal of moving, at least in light of agency? I mean, you move in the holodeck, inside the illusion, but technically the holodeck is moving you.

“It’s unfamiliar,” said Zona, looking herself over (for our benefit, I guessed, since her eyes were only an illusion). “It won’t be as perfect as the girl was, but in time I’ll return to that level of fidelity. With less of me to manage, the acclimation should be easier. I have more room to think now.”

There’s a pun there, I know it.

u/CCC_037 [+7] (5 hours later)

The mantle is a reference to a book cover, right?

One of the definitions of 'mantle' is 'the shelf above a fireplace'.

u/serge_cell [+23] (6 hours later)

Chekhov gun

u/valeskas [+7] (9 hours later)

It’s trash that we don’t have a good way to get rid of

Got me thinking about parallels between trash thrown into the Boundless Pit and garbage on Earth orbit.

u/Jskunsa [+5] (2 hours later)

!”Amaryllis relaxed and let out a breath. “Good,” she said. “Then things are looking up. For someone who still carried a candle for our narrative, Amaryllis hadn’t chosen her words very carefully.”!<

Dun dun dun. Not only is this foreboding by itself, but the use of candle seems suspiciously like a title drop :). I love this story. Thanks so much cthulhuraewales!

u/DaystarEld [+7] Pokémon Professor (21 hours later)

We've already had a full blown title drop, in case you misssed it, in which Joon mentions how the "game" he's in will only be "worth the candle" if the people in it actually have free will and their own personhood, which was pretty great as far as title drops go :)

u/icesharkk [+1] (5 days later)

Back then I wondered if the title was declarative. Is it saying the story/game is worth the candle? Joon doesn't know but maybe the narrative knows?

u/PanickedApricott [+4] (17 hours later)

Joon could go into his soul and attempt to play back his memories in slow motion so that he can read what ropey said to bethe.

u/CouteauBleu [+4] We are the Empire. (a day later)

one of the chores was reaching in and gathering up the docile fairies to break their necks and put them in zip-lock bags.

Oddworld: Aerb edition.

“You’re dodging the question,” said Arthur, rolling his eyes again. “I think it’s fine to just say, ‘no, she doesn’t do it for me’, I’m sure lots of girls would say that about me, I’m not going to be salty about it. Call that metric three, maybe, and even if it were just fifty-fifty that cuts the pool down to eighteen. But, in point of fact, there are a lot of metrics to consider, and even if some of them are correlated, the actual pool of worthwhile girls in our school is in the low single digits, at least as far as I can see.”

“Yeah,” said Arthur. “It’s a patriarchal institution.” He gave a hollow little laugh.

“Well come on, help me figure out an approach,” said Arthur. “You know her pretty well, what would work on her?”

Oh my god this is uncomfortable. (in a good way though!)

There have been at least a few hints so far that Arthur had a tendency to objectify women as a teen, but this is becoming almost explicit.

“You have provided much information, most of it worthless to me,” said Zona.

Aw. I kinda get why Zona/Bethel (ugh) has no patience for this high school crap, but her casual arrogance and constant snark are getting kind annoying.

Fenn winced. “I’m on her side, a little bit. I haven’t done it myself, because I wanted to talk to you first, but I’ve really been thinking that it might be for the best to get rid of some attachments that aren’t doing me any good. Nothing concrete, just kind of waffling.”

Yeah, just want to carve out the part of me that still loves my adopted away son. Nothing important.

Zona was looking between the two of us with a smile on her face. “It turns out that I’ve missed domestic squabbles after all.”

See, that's more like it!

Look, when you read the letter -- you’ll know which one I mean, it’s got some kind of heavy stuff in it

Ahah, pun.

"So I told her about my pregnancy, and the child I gave up for adoption."

Worth the Candle: a lighthearted story with dragons, unicorns, haunted houses, fairies made of sugar, and the importance of family values!

I was always worried that I’d be part of the next round of sacrifices.

... wait, what? The Empire does/tolerates human sacrifices? That's darker than I expected.

I feel like this letter has already gone on way too long, but I don’t want to just leave you on a low note, so I’m going to ramble a bit, okay? (If it’s not okay, stop reading now. (See, I can do parentheticals just like you! (I love your parentheticals (and you).)))

... yes, we all love your sprawling parentheticals, they're not awkward at all. Honest.

(just kidding, they're great)

She wanted to be a house, and the only reason that she wasn’t was because she was settling for lesser pursuits, like torturing and killing people who tried to come inside her, or making war with the tuung, or accumulating power.

You know, small hobbies to pass the time.

Fenn came out of the chamber like a cat darting out of a door that’s been momentarily left ajar, and ran straight at me. She didn’t slow down, and leaped up into the air, the better to tackle me.

Artist's depiction.

“It wasn’t from scratch, it was from parts, and you know for a fact that I don’t have recording working yet.” She sighed. “But thank you.” Her hand went to her belly to rub it. “She’s not kicking.” [...] “If this is a stillbirth, I’m going to lose my fucking mind,” said Amaryllis.

Quick question: wouldn't Bethel be able to detect whether the baby has a heartbeat, stuff like that? It seems a little strange that she doesn't contribute at all to the discussion.

“Water broke, four weeks early,” she said. “I’m not in labor. We’re going to the hospital.”

Oh my. How dangerous is a four weeks early pregnancy? That sounds really bad.

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+7] Fruit flies like a banana (a day later)

Quick question: wouldn't Bethel be able to detect whether the baby has a heartbeat, stuff like that?

By that point in the pregnancy (~35-36 weeks), you'd be able to hear a fetal heartbeat using a stethoscope, which Amaryllis has presumably already done (or she would have mentioned not being able to hear a heartbeat). The worry isn't so much that the baby is dead, more that there's something seriously wrong that hasn't made itself known yet, and won't until (still)birth.

How dangerous is a four weeks early pregnancy?

Depends on the specifics. The biggest risk for premature babies is usually the lungs, which are one of the last important things to develop, and one of the reasons that you often see premies with breathing masks or intubation. Other than that, there are infection risks from under-developed immune systems, digestive problems from under-developed intestines, and other, somewhat less common issues. Infant mortality for "late preterm" is about three times higher in the US/UK, IIRC.

Premature preterm rupture of membranes gives something like 1/50 chance of infant death (in the United States), with a whole host of other complications also possible. It's left unstated how long Amaryllis has waited after her water broke to see whether she would go into labor, but the longer you go without going into labor, the higher the risk (depending on the specifics, they'll either use steroids to help promote lung growth and antibiotics to fight infection, or they'll induce labor if it doesn't happen on its own).

(Note: I am not a doctor, but neither are the characters, so hopefully it's okay if they make the occasional mistake here.)

u/thrawnca [+2] Carbon-based biped (a day later)

How dangerous is a four weeks early pregnancy?

On 21st century Earth, not dangerous at all. The baby should easily be developed enough by then. The limit on viability is about 24 weeks, which is 16 weeks early.

On Aerb with a mixture of Earth tech pulled from the backpack...hard to say. Might need to do a caesarean, since labor isn't starting, but that should be within their capabilities.

u/PanickedApricott [+5] (a day later)

could Bethe turn into this house depicted here? It's the worlds smallest house.

What about a doll house?

u/Noumero [+5] Self-Appointed Court Statistician (a day later)

What about a doll house?

She did wonder about something similar in Chapter 100, in case you didn't notice:

“The edges of the power are hard to detect; it’s versatile and permissive. Once the pregnancy is over, I think I’ll try my hand at becoming a fairy house, which should make me small enough to be carried.”

u/HaramDatingSim [+12] (18 hours later)

Did not see the companion incoming, which I'm somewhat embarrassed about. I really, really should have, considering that the house a) is a girl and b) spent a decent amount of time making it clear that she is, in fact, fuckable.

I did see Fenn's past coming from miles away, but who the hell didn't?

u/Noumero [+15] Self-Appointed Court Statistician (19 hours later)

Did not see the companion incoming, which I'm somewhat embarrassed about.

One question still remains: how is she a princess?

u/aeschenkarnos [+4] (21 hours later)

Bearer of some crown-like entad?

u/WarningInsanityBelow [+5] (a day later)

She was home to several princes, maybe one of them married her?

u/TofuRobber [+5] (a day later)

Uther fucked (raped) her as Tiff. After consuming the anyblade, she mentioned a kind of "new start" and became bethel. If we take that as a kind of birth, you could say that she is the child of Uther and herself making herself a princess of sorts.

u/BobLeBob [+1] (2 days later)

She was also made sentient because Uther put a sentient sword in her right? That way he also "gave birth" to her I guess? That does make the rape even more horrible though

u/Croktopus [+4] (2 hours later)

oh man that was good. feeling so much better about mary/fenn/joon than at the end of the last update. especially with the new info from fenn. i hope they get to all reunite amicably :)

u/rabotat [+6] (16 hours later)

I hope I've read this the wrong way, but are you really shipping MFJ after that letter?

'cos if so, that's fucked up.

u/Croktopus [+9] (17 hours later)

im shipping their friendship!

u/rabotat [+3] (21 hours later)

oh, thank god

u/eternal-potato [+8] he who vegetates (17 hours later)

Everything is possible with soul editing.

u/ForMyWork [+3] (10 hours later)

So I didn't take a good look at how many chapters were released/didn't keep track of how many through I was, and I kept thinking each of them were the cliffhanger you'd said you left. Damn! You found a pretty good place, didn't feel jarring leaving it there, but it's also got some tension waiting for the next one.

Excellent chapters! I'm hoping that Amaryllis doesn't choose to change the mother things, and of course that the birth works out. Though I suspect if it doesn't and Solace dies (can they do this ritual again if they grab her soul?? That would screw with them.and her in particular) then she'll definitely want to get rid of the feelings of losing a child and Joon might disagree. Though I could be totally wrong.

Poor Fenn, glad Joon didn't freak out about it or anything, though now there is the son out there somewhere. Also, poor Amaryllis, the others were over the chamber, she would be seriously stir crazy. What a rough day/months.

Grak has really come through in these chapters with how supportive of Amaryllis he's been, not that he didn't care before hand, but I find in this arc it's come out much more.

New companion! Yay, also, starting to like the house more, and I can see how she became what she is. Must be so strange and disorienting to have parts added to you, that fundamentally change you. So yay for Bethel.

Loved the writing, keep it up, I quite enjoy your story!

u/nineran [+3] (12 hours later)

Wait, I thought we were waiting ages and ages for this!
(*goes starry eyed and off to read*)
Thank you!

u/WalterTFD [+5] (40 minutes later)

So many words!! Thanks so much!

u/cactus_head [+8] (6 hours later)

“I had a very specific fantasy,” said Amaryllis. “I would turn out the lights, and then you would slip into bed with me, and I would ask you what you thought you were doing, and then you would say that -- that you’d made a mistake, that you should have chosen me...

Starting to think that Amaryllis's fantasy is right.

u/CaptainMcSmash [+4] (a day later)

I've always liked her more than Fenn too.

u/PanickedApricott [+5] (4 hours later)

Okay.

That quest where Joon bangs 7 companions is now possible without Amaryllis being one of them. That being said, I'm 96% 98% sure Amaryllis will survive the pregnancy if they go to the doctor.

Did they already try bringing back living things? Could they bring back a live chicken? What about extinct animals like a dodo bird?

Could they pull out specific people?

And honestly Bethe is new best girl.

Could they pull out pieces of whatever crashed at Roswell?

What about the moon samples brought back on the Apollo missions?

u/Putnam3145 [+4] (4 hours later)

That quest where Joon bangs 7 companions is now possible without Amaryllis being one of them.

Fenn, Grak, Six-Eyed Doe, Valencia, Bethel, ???, ???

u/TofuRobber [+3] (a day later)

It wasn't a quest; it was an achievement.

Joon wasn't going to get rewarded for completing it. It was a goal that he could choose to pursuit much like his Micro Hitler achievement.

u/Putnam3145 [+1] (a day later)

I didn't say it was a quest, the person I'm replying to did.

u/PanickedApricott [+6] (4 hours later)

???, ??

hrk i dun goofed.

u/CopperZirconium [+1] (16 hours later)

They got seeds from the backpack, but I guess we have yet to see if those seeds can grow.

u/Hust91 [+2] (4 hours later)

Yiiiiisssss!

u/sicutumbo [+2] (14 hours later)

How did Grak and Amaryllis get food when they left the backpack outside from the time chamber? I could see how they would be able to store most of the things they would normally need inside Sable, but food would still go bad. Anything they ate at the end would have been a month old at least. They could have done it, but it's the kind of thing that I feel like they should have given up the backpack before going into the chamber.

u/erwgv3g34 [+5] (16 hours later)

I could see how they would be able to store most of the things they would normally need inside Sable, but food would still go bad.

There are food preservation techniques that can make food last for years. Canning, dehydration, freeze-drying... just grab a month's supply of cans from the backpack and don't forget the can opener. Or grab a month's supply of MREs and cup noodles and you won't even need the can opener. Plus, there is always the old standby of storing raw grain; humanity would have never gotten past the stone age if we hadn't been able to store enough food for a month.

Incidentally, this pissed me off about Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. They can duplicate food but they are starving to death and stealing forcibly buying eggs? Come on. How hard would it have been to walk into a Muggle supermarket, buy a few cans, and duplicate all the food they could eat? If they don't have Muggle money and they feel bad about stealing, sell off a Galleon at a Muggle pawn shop first. Problem solved.

u/xachariah [+3] (a day later)

They can duplicate food but they are starving to death

They can't actually duplicate food. It's covered in the book (and is the logical basis for HPMOR's rules for transfiguration).

But you're right that they could just acquire food from anywhere.

u/PeridexisErrant [+2] put aside fear for courage, and death for life (a day later)

Nope, canonically you can increase the quantity (ie duplicate) food you already have, make it more appetising (without any downsides), etc.

You just can't create it from scratch, which in context is like putting up a single post instead of a fence!

u/xachariah [+3] (a day later)

Pretty sure you still can't duplicate it. The actual quote is...

“It’s impossible to make good food out of nothing! You can Summon it if you know where it is, you can transform it, you can increase the quantity if you’ve already got some-"

I take 'increase the quantity' to mean making food much larger, like we see in the second year with the Engorgio charm on pumpkins, which seems to have some reasonable limit since we don't see mountain-sized pumpkins.

However duplication is a different beast. The only two things we know that are exceptions to Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration are food and money. And the only time we see the duplication charm in action, we're specifically informed that it doesn't circumvent Gamp's Law and that the duplicated items are still worthless (eg, duplicated items are significantly different from the originals).

It seems straightforward to me that duplication is a transfiguration type spell (since we would otherwise have to posit an additional fundamental law of magic to cover money twice over), and thus it also doesn't work on food.

Also, I know Harry Potter characters are dumb, but they aren't so dumb to literally starve if they could just just magically duplicate food. Especially because they specifically are using magic on the food already to make more of it and make it more appetizing.

u/LordGoldenroot [+2] (23 hours later)

Also sable is a vacuum which means that any food stored inside it will last much longer by default.

u/adgnatum [+2] (a day later)

Amaryllis figured that our best bet at that point was a full-body swap

What's her plan? Some sort of soul magic shennanigans, but what? Try to copy Solace into someone?

During the wet seasons the mayor takes a holiday far to the south, for reasons of health

SAD. A bit of a meta reference there.

She’s almost frighteningly sympathetic to my cause (the cause, currently, of being the best girlfriend I can be).

I submit that Fenn's interpretation is unreliable. Amaryllis is thinking about this from the pregnancy/motherhood/attachment angle.

remind me to tell you about the mashed potato incident

Clearly she hasn't read any Watterson. Otherwise it would be a "noodle" incident.

...

The idle line about the lack of illusion of mind operates also as a warning not to shy away from Zona's account of Arthur

u/cthulhuraejepsen [+3] Fruit flies like a banana (a day later)

Amaryllis figured that our best bet at that point was a full-body swap

What's her plan? Some sort of soul magic shennanigans, but what? Try to copy Solace into someone?

This is a reference to ch 93:

There were some other ideas she’d been kicking around that I was less enamored with.

“We can rush Solace,” said Amaryllis. “When she’s born, you’ll take a look at her soul, and if it looks like everything but her body is as it should be, then we’ll have you do a wholesale replacement of her physical self. Then all we should need to do is heal her into that form, rendering her a full adult and capable druid a few minutes after I’ve given birth to her.”

“That … does make some sense,” I said. “I would think there would be some problems as far as mass goes. Do you know whether bone magic actually replaces lost mass?”

“Our only reference book on bone magic is The Commoner’s Guide to Bone Magic, which unsurprisingly doesn’t go into it,” said Amaryllis. “And yes, that’s something that we should test before trying it. Obviously if the magic is cannibalizing other muscle, fat, or bone, we’re not going to be able to turn a six pound baby into a hundred pound woman. In general concept though, what do you think?”

u/adgnatum [+1] (2 days later)

I guess I was too busy recalling the unfavorable result when she did that soul checkup on Solace:

“No, it’s not that,” said Amaryllis. “I got in, it’s just … she’s not all there. The thicket of memories is decimated, she’s threadbare on skills, and her values are a mess. There’s none of the conceptual specificity that I see in my own soul.”

None of that really precludes fixing her body.

u/TwoxMachina [+2] (3 days later)

Chapter 100 end

u/generalamitt [+2] (4 days later)

I wonder why juniper seems to assume that Arthur also had a game overlay, there's no doubt he was powered up somehow, but there is no evidence it was related to games

u/kaukamieli [+3] (4 hours later)

Oh god, I was supposed to get something done today. Here I go...

u/xartab [+1] (18 hours later)

Wow, ain't that a fine kick of adrenaline...

u/CaptainMcSmash [+1] (a day later)

I've completely forgotten how old Fenn is, she's like 80 or something right? Like, I imagine someone that looks young and it seems normal, but thinking of her as this 80 year old woman madly, teenager-level of in love with someone Joons age is really discombobulating.

u/Noumero [+8] Self-Appointed Court Statistician (a day later)

Fenn is thirty-three years old.

u/nytelios [+6] (a day later)

That means Nellan would be about 14-15 years old. Wonder if that the party will ever pursue that plotline. The awkwardness of meeting your biological mother's new boyfriend who's only a few years older...

u/CaptainMcSmash [+1] (a day later)

Oh nevermind that's not as bad then.

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (4 days later)

Rereading the earlier chapters, there are several indications that the rocket across the desert was not exactly the DM's Plan A, from the Cowardice affliction to the Outside the Box achievement to Joon's recollection of the cannon-over-fog episode. However, it's not clear what he was supposed to do.

Maybe he could have stood at the ward line and exterminated the thaum-seekers with the void rifle?

u/xamueljones [+1] My arch-enemy is entropy (10 days later)

I think the intended solution was to face off and kill Aumann at the castle. By having to make the trip across the desert and facing Aumann in his lair instead, they had to deal with more people such as a revision mage, and a larger group of guards.

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (12 days later)

Maybe, but I still think that at the point where he didn't immediately challenge the guy with what was basically a gun, there must have been some other solution besides the rocket.

u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (8 days later)

So...I'm going to assume that the House of God (or at least god-in-training) doesn't have a soul, which means she'll likely have unique companion passives, like Valencia.

Anyone's guesses on what she'll have? I'm thinking something related to her core power, maybe the ability to regurgitate entads she doesn't want, or draw on nearby entads without eating them.

u/None [-2] (an hour later)

[deleted]

u/scruiser [+12] CYOA (2 hours later)

Teenager, dealing with his first serious crush, bouncing ideas off a close friend. With that context, I would think less incel and more slightly problematic attitude... which might change in any number of ways. Given what we’ve seen of him as Uther, maybe he didn’t so much change for the better, but he was certainty not celibate.

u/None [-3] (2 hours later)

[deleted]

u/scruiser [+14] CYOA (2 hours later)

I mean you are right that Arthur’s attitude is problematic, and a problematic set of viewpoints could have grown into the full entad-grooming womanizer we see later. But he isn’t an “incel”.

u/Anderkent [+4] (12 hours later)

Why doesn't a teenager who wants to get laid but isnt getting any qualify for 'involuntarily celibate'?

u/None [+22] (14 hours later)

For the same reason you wouldn't call any American who supports democracy as "Democrat". While it might be literally accurate under the definition in normal usage it refers to a particular subgroup of people, and has its own attached connotations and ideology

u/Anderkent [+4] (15 hours later)

I guess I missed the term even getting a normal usage, other than shorthand for involuntarily celibate. First I hear of /r/incels being a thing.

I'm not sure if giving in to groups subverting terms in name of identity politics is the right thing to do, but I guess I understand what went wrong here now.

u/scruiser [+11] CYOA (13 hours later)

As a teenager His focus isn’t on getting laid, it’s on his first crush. Incels categorize women (repeatedly) because they view them as interchangeable and solely as sources of sex. Arthur categorized women (in a single conversation that we know of) because he was trying to analyze his feelings of attraction to one person in particular.

u/Anderkent [+3] (13 hours later)

Incels categorize women (repeatedly) because they view them as interchangeable and solely as sources of sex

Um, that's a rather one-sided and judgemental view? For most lonely people it's not just about sex, even if being celibate obviously is a big part of the problem? See Radicalizing The Romanceless, back in 2014 we were already talking about this.

I would guess that even for the very small extreme subset of incels that admit to being ones on the internet, sex is not everything they want; intimacy, trust, all that jazz is pretty common human desire. Though probably many have given up on that.

u/scruiser [+12] CYOA (14 hours later)

It seems we are conflating two different definitions... I was specifically thinking of the /r/incels subgroup whereas you are referring to the literal, broader definition of people that are involuntarily celibate.

I think /r/incels was shutdown for being so hateful. They definitely categorize women into various misogynistic stereotypes.

u/CouteauBleu [+2] We are the Empire. (a day later)

You're kind of treating this as a black-and-white thing, though.

I mostly agree with the SSC article, but there definitely is a correlation between young men being celibates for long periods of time and them objectifying women.

I think the way Arthur talks in this chapter is a good example: he's not especially evil, and he has a certain respect for Tiff, and it wouldn't be constructive to just attack him for feeling the way he does, but the way he talks about girls is kind of unpleasant and objectifying (eg his "50% of girls are below average therefore not worth dating" speech).

u/AnOrnateToilet [+4] (13 hours later)

Heads up, I want to applaud you for being open minded, and for doing your best to keep discussion civil. That said, I just wanted to say that while I don’t know what your previous comment said, the reason this particular comment is getting downvotes may have more to do with the implicit assumption/accusation that people disagree with you because they are “sheep”, for lack of a better word, and that you in your “wrongthink” are refusing to conform to their views. A more productive way forward would be to drop the wrongthink, or to acknowledge that some may disagree with you because of a different and potentially valid viewpoint, perhaps derived from different priors.

Of course, there are some who are dismissing YOUR viewpoint at of hand for the very same reason, but what’s the point of being rational if we just assume everyone else is incapable of being rational as well? Might as well put in a bit of effort to try and avoid assuming the competence or incompetence of others when possible, and the ones worth listening to will listen to you in turn.

u/Anderkent [+2] (13 hours later)

what’s the point of being rational if we just assume everyone else is incapable of being rational as well?

Why, winning? Rationality that only wins if other people are also rational is not very good rationality.

u/None [+1] (a day later)

That's rhetoric, not "rationality".

u/Anderkent [+3] (a day later)

No, the goal of rhetoric is to 'win' a debate by looking better than the opponent. The goal of rationality is to win at life by making better decisions.

u/omanaz [-8] (22 hours later)

😁😉😆😉😀👠😃😃👌qqaaqaqooo

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