18 KiB
[RT][HF] A Practical Guide to Evil: Book 4: Interlude: Kaleidoscope II
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Author: u/Zayits *
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URL: https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpress.com/2018/05/25/interlude-kaleidoscope-ii/
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Score: 79
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Created: 2018-05-25T04:01:41
Post:
Comments:
u/Frommerman [+19] (30 minutes later)
The Fool-who-cut-nothing to no-one who still lived.
I wonder who?
I really like the Grey Pilgrim, both as a character and as a person. Fortunately, this seems to be a story about coming to terms with a bitter foe, rather than a story about Evil crushing Good. I wouldn't like to see him die.
u/PrettyDecentSort [+3] (48 minutes later)
My first guess is someone undead.
u/Zayits [+2] (an hour later)
Probably the alchemist villain who she killed while still being in a transitional Name.
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
I assumed it was an old nickname she had when she was much younger and there is no one alive who still remembers it.
u/Tinac4 [+17] (38 minutes later)
Queen Catherine had brutalized the children, but not beyond repair. Antoine’s arm had been reattached, and another greatsword found for him to wield. With the coming of dawn, Tariq had been able to Forgive the death of Mansurin. The young man, displaying the famous fortitude of the Champion lines, had only been spurred to greater zeal by his stay Above. Little Sidonia, with her laughing eyes and quick wit, would have to remain under shroud of preservation until tomorrow.
I'm really starting to sympathize with Black now. Evil has quite a few dangerous weapons on their side, but the amount of trump cards and last-minute saves that the Good side can pull out is getting ridiculous. Fighting against Good does not appear to be the same thing as fighting Evil, and even though the Pilgrim and the Saint are arguably a special case, I'm not sure that Cat has gone up against any truly Good characters so far. (The Lone Swordsman was too edgy to make a good opponent for Cat (get it? Get it?), and most of the other heroes she's fought so far have been relatively insignificant.) This is new for her.
I actually have no idea how Cat is going to wriggle her way out of this situation. She'll probably manage it somehow, but the Pilgrim and the Saint are not opponents she can beat through direct confrontation, especially with the Pilgrim being as genre-savvy as he is. She'll need to come up with a way to cripple the rest of their army before the heroes can engage her again or exert some form of pressure to force them to retreat (threatening future supply lines, political stuff, a more indirect weapon than absolute positioning), but I can't think of any obvious solutions. She's already used her big secret weapon.
Can't wait for the next chapter!
The Pilgrim looked up at mockingly sunny skies. There would be a time, after the war turned here and the Red Flower Vales broke, where the Heavens would assemble their sharpest blade. The ancient forms would be observed. Five heroes, sent into the breach to quell the howling dark.
A random thought I had: What if Cat ends up replacing one of the five heroes? She's not Good, so whether or not this is possible is iffy, but it would certainly be in character for her to volunteer for this mission. Also, as the Pilgrim has noted, she tends to toe the line between Good and Evil; there might be enough flexibility for her to fit into this niche. Plus, the Good guys might be forced to pick her if Cat keeps murdering her way through the weaker heroes. (If anyone gets replaced, it'll be the Valiant Champion.) Not sure how likely this outcome is, but I'd still love to see it--the interactions between her, Hanno, the Pilgrim, and possibly the Saint would be glorious, even (and perhaps especially) if the Saint snaps halfway through the journey and tries to stab Cat. Which is pretty likely, given that Cat's typical response to aggression is to double down on the sass.
u/rumblestiltsken [+2] (2 days later)
> There would be a time, after the war turned here and the Red Flower Vales broke, where the Heavens would assemble their sharpest blade. The ancient forms would be observed. Five heroes, sent into the breach to quell the howling dark.
This is prophetic enough that it will probably come to pass, but it could apply to the Woe. None of them have overtly Evil names, and if they win here they are by definition the sharpest blade. The Red Flower Vales (and the Calamities) fall to Empress/Dead King, and The Woe have to stop them. I can see Cat et al crossing the floor if needed.
The problem with this is that there are a ton of ultimate tier heroes they have to surpass/kill to get the spot.
u/Tinac4 [+1] (2 days later)
That’s a really good point—it didn’t occur to me that the Woe might be the ones to replace the heroes.
u/TaltosDreamer [+2] (42 minutes later)
I think Masego dropping an illusion on Grey Pilgrim when Saint is in a fighting m ood will solve Grey Pilgrim as a problem.
u/Tinac4 [+9] (44 minutes later)
I'd be surprised if that worked. Grey Pilgrim doesn't really seem to lose directly--odds are good that he'd somehow find a way to penetrate the illusion before Saint could threaten him. Also, it wouldn't quite fit story-wise, especially with the foreshadowed journey in the future.
u/TaltosDreamer [+7] (49 minutes later)
The foreshadowed journey was specifically an uncertain roster. Grey Pilgrim undoes all her work and Saint is a rock she cannot pass or face directly. They must be dealt with to move forward.
Something has to give and I put my money down that it wont be cat. Cat's MO can be translated as "that is a beautiful story. It would be a shame if something happened to it."
u/HallowedThoughts [+12] (55 minutes later)
Cat's already talked about how difficult it would be to create any sort of peace if she kills Pilgrim. He's also the most reasonable hero we've encountered yet, which is definitely helpful. Saint, however, is someone who can gladly die
u/TaltosDreamer [+1] (56 minutes later)
true any idea how she can make that happen? so far saint seems pretty fearsome
u/Nimelennar [+3] (a day later)
Have her lose a coin-flip against Hanno?
Who knows, she might actually submit to Judgement.
u/TaltosDreamer [+1] (a day later)
that would be excellent
u/HallowedThoughts [+2] (58 minutes later)
My best guess would be making peace with Pilgrim and having Saint refuse to cooperate. Then both sides would come down on her. Even then, though, idk if she'd go down. She could probably take Pilgrim in a direct fight, and Cat isn't gonna be able to make much of a difference with what we've seen her display so far
u/TaltosDreamer [+5] (an hour later)
To me Saint feels more like a narratively charged doubled edged sword. I havent seen her wound her own side yet, so I keep expecting it. I also keep coming back to the idea that her soul is a sword. It seems like there should be a drawback to that.
u/HallowedThoughts [+9] (an hour later)
The drawback could be similar to Cat's power: she can't avoid a fight or is otherwise leashed into being aggressive. And I definitely agree, she seems likely to hurt her side sooner or later
u/UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2 [+2] (11 hours later)
Cat finds a political outcome to the war (ie, "let's march on the Tower together"), and Saint's refusal to compromise marks her into a villain role
u/TaltosDreamer [+1] (12 hours later)
That puts Saint against everyone else, but I am not certain she would lose in that scenario. Her sword seems pretty "to the point."
u/Tinac4 [+3] (57 minutes later)
I agree that they're an immediate threat, but in the narrative sense, I think it would be pretty strange if she succeeded in killing a decades (centuries?)-old hero with a long history with a cheap trick or even a clever scheme. Maybe if she had already fought the Pilgrim on multiple occasions before and everything was building up to a single massive showdown, she could do it, but even then, it seems unlikely. Pilgrim is basically Gandalf--the wise old mentor who helps the heroes along but isn't necessarily the person to land the final blow. He's not going to die to a villain who isn't really that evil; he's going to go out at a crucial moment, sacrificing himself to let a younger, powerful hero go on and defeat some greater threat. It wouldn't really fit with his character.
The Saint of Swords is more vulnerable in that sense, but she has similar levels of power, experience, and narrative weight. I'd be surprised if Cat was able to kill her without insane amounts of preparation at the very least, which she doesn't appear to have at the moment. IMO, it's more likely that she manages to cripple the army in such a way that they're forced to retreat, either through killing enough troops or more subtle means (politics, supply lines stuff, etc.).
u/RynnisOne [+3] (11 hours later)
The Kensai needs to go down hard before her OP-ness breaks any potential of an enjoyable story.
Armies, magic, siege engines, and Named-tier special abilities that even work on Demons have all had zero effect on her.
She either needs a weakness or a relatively equal opponent to appear soon, because it's really stretching believability as to why she doesn't just jog over to the villain side, assassinate all the Named and ranking officers, and then just wander off for the Muggles to clean up the mess.
u/Hoactzins [+5] (15 hours later)
Well, her pool of name juice isn't infinite. She'd probably end up like Black's predecessor. Leeroy Jenkins isn't a very good way to survive a war, even if you're an overpowered living Cuisinart.
u/Nimelennar [+1] (7 hours later)
I think it she wanted to kill Pilgrim, she'd have to play up the "mentor" card.
Focus on one of the young heroes, put them in a situation where the coming death is one Pilgrim can't reverse, have him face her instead, and take him out "Fly, you fools" style.
u/Esryok [+7] (16 hours later)
Though that might be a short-lived victory. As I recall, the Balrog did not get a happy ending out of that confrontation, and a few weeks later Heaven reached its meddlesome fingers down and undid the defeat entirely.
The White Pilgrim has entered the arena.
u/CouteauBleu [+49] We are the Empire. (an hour later)
I know I've complained about this before, but it's becoming really weird that every single male Proceran Prince we see is shown to be a scheming, overconfident hypocrite, and every single female Prince is flawed-but-honorable pragmatist.
More generally, I feel like these secondary characters aren't varied enough. We don't really get much personality out of any of them besides "this one is an asshole" or "this one is principled". I wish we'd get more insight into their personality that isn't whether or not they like to scheme, or whether or not they're racist; most of them show very little self-awareness, if any.
Stuff like "This character has no military experience, but he has spent months before the campaign reading every military book he could find. He hope that's going to be enough".
Or "This character usually doesn't like working with Chosen. She's seen them upset the balance of power all too often during the Proceran civil war, making what should have been a sure victory turn into a defeat in a blink. She's been told that such was the natural order of things, for there was no higher arbiter for a war than the Heavens, and that wanting to decide battles through pure armies and logistics was Evil, but she couldn't help empathize with the perspective. It's funny, now that she's facing Evil, with Chosen on her side and logistics on theirs, she still feels drawn to the same perspective. Is it insanity, that she thinks her side ought to lose the coming battle? She tries push out the thoughts, as she addresses the other Princes."
My point is, I think the story should have more characterization that's orthogonal to whether or not they're Evil or honorable or racist; characterization that's no meant to make us like them or dislike them. (u/ErraticErrata)
u/Chesheire [+18] (6 hours later)
I believe that this story is using an unreliable narrator, hence the flat descriptions. What we are seeing now is Grey Pilgrim's inability to fault women, while discerning only greed from male motives. Definitely seems plausible judging by the past chapters and some details that have been reinterpreted after the fact.
Edit: graham crackers y'all
u/Oaden [+16] (7 hours later)
It would be oddly amusing if it turned out that the grey pilgrim is sexist.
He's supposed to be the old wizened hero, that dispenses wisdom the protagonist. Now most old fantasy was pretty heavily set in the gender roles, so we can find some basis there that the women are pure princess and victim of manipulation, but PgtE world so far seems relatively egalitarian on the gender issue. Like, there are some things like Goblins being a matriarchy but unless procer is a hotbed of it, there isn't much of a basis for the grey pilgrim to fall into that trap. (Though the title "first prince of procer" being a kind of weird about it, why not first princess?)
u/None [+8] (9 hours later)
I think instead of assuming it's a flaw you should attempt a charitable reading. There are plenty of Non-Procerean male secondary characters in the story that don't fit your mould so I doubt this is a simple oversight. Adjutant, Robber, Ratface, Black, Warlock are all hyper-competent.
So what do we know about Procerean society? We know Procerean Princes are scheming because that is the nature of their reality. It's scheme or be out maneuvered and killed, game of thrones style. We also know Cordelia being a woman as First Prince is novel and she purposefully didn't take the feminized title to project power. This implies that while women rule in today's Procer they aren't normally considered Claimants to the grand prize of the throne. Likely, this means women rulers generally do not have to play the "game" of scheming as much as long as they can avoid getting usurped up by a neighboring kingdom during the decades of civil war. Hence a general competence and martial prowess being required for Procean women rulers.
u/werafdsaew [+15] (2 hours later)
All the others had warmed to Tariq, after Laurence acted as offensively in councils as she could
So the Grey Pilgrim and the Saint of Sword are playing a good cop, bad cop routine.
u/WalterTFD [+11] (9 hours later)
Best cop, Murder cop.
u/UserAns22 [+12] (24 minutes later)
Fan theory: The emotionless Prince is Assassin coming in for the long con. On another note both old heroes think the worst is yet to come. I'm curious to see if that's a premonition for what comes after this or for this battle. If its this battle, Cat's going to be doing something real interesting when asleep...
u/cyberdsaiyan [+11] (an hour later)
I dunno, Assassin being right in the midst of the entire camp with some of the world's most powerful heroic Names?
I don't see that story ending well for him.
u/notagiantdolphin [+6] (an hour later)
Depends if he chose a narratively appropriate moment to strike. Or maybe can expand his assassination skills (aspects, whatever) to things, in the same way Saint seems able to cut concepts. If he could cause an entire campaign to sicken and die, for example.
Or the Prince might just be a classic sociopath, I guess. But that's no fun.
u/cyberdsaiyan [+6] (2 hours later)
I had a thought that he might be one of Malicia's agents who survived the purge.
u/Solaire145 [+2] (12 hours later)
Well Thief managed to waltz through the camp so they don't have anyone that can pierce Aspect disguises. It's a neat possibility. I think Black needs him for whatever is happening in the Vales though.
u/BausMANGO [+9] (26 minutes later)
Looks like Grey Pilgrim has once-a-day resurrection and isn't just a super good healer
"coming of dawn" but not "passing of dawn" - perhaps the Grey Pilgrim is strongest when the sun rises (and can only heal or do his super magics during this brief time)? or maybe just being pedantic
u/WalterTFD [+8] (9 hours later)
I feel like Forgive is one of his aspects.
u/Oaden [+5] (8 hours later)
Would fit into him being a kind of Gandalf
u/RynnisOne [+3] (12 hours later)
I read it as he has a 1/Day Resurrection power that recharges as dawn, very much like something out if a pen and paper RPG.
However, the fact that he can bring them back just means that the villains will have to desecrate the hero corpses as a matter of survival (probably while being lectured as to how that makes them Evil by the side that gets free One Ups). Can he Rez them if they are missing a head? Not sure. Prettt certain they can't come back from Goblinfire though.
u/Tallergeese [+2] (13 hours later)
They bothered with putting the staff hero under a shroud of preservation, so that would definitely imply that the condition of the body matters somehow to the resurrection.
u/Oaden [+2] (18 hours later)
So are we getting cats name or a mageso aspect? (He still hasnt showed a single one, unleashing a sun is just a basic power, plus hes actually emotionally invested)
Archer might also pop up of course