74 KiB
[RT] [HF] Mother of Learning Chapter 86: A New World
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Author: u/Xtraordinaire Team Glimglam*
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URL: https://www.fictionpress.com/s/2961893/86/Mother-of-Learning
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Score: 272
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Created: 2018-06-17T22:11:08
Post:
Comments:
u/Areign [+95] (an hour later)
I think this is the type of chapter that feels weird when reading it as a webserial but important when read as a book. I'm more than happy for slightly pace breaking chapters if it makes the commulative product better
u/TornSkippito [+40] (4 hours later)
Can confirm! Discovered this on Friday night, and just caught up. This was a relatively nice place to be left off.
The only thing really worth noting from an archive reader perspective is after arc two everything really picked up in pace, which makes sense. Most of the mundane is gone, which made me slightly worried about the ending. Having the revisit here and in the post-soul damage reset really help the story flow better and eased my fears.
u/rtsynk [+70] (2 hours later)
18 restarts left
things still to do this loop:
find the staff
acquire pet hydra
study hydra further to learn how to synchronize himself with his simulacrums
study how to fake the marker
contact 2 other pocket dimension mages that QI told them about
more study of blood magic and enhancement rituals to assist in learning dimensional magic (especially for Zach)
learn soul magic from QI (were the cranium rats able to report that Zorian was killing them? If so, I don't know how they can approach him for lessons)
another vault robbery with QI (again, iffy. also don't try to kill him this time?)
explanation of what he pulled out of QI's memories
utilize black room to increase their study time for dimensional/soul/blood magic
try new tactics to get ring (ally with other tribe to draw them out)
get Kael governmental support
surprised he took Kirielle, not sure what they're going to do with her while gallivanting across the world
Enough emphasis on Fortov that you suspect something is going to happen there ("He's useless and I don't like him." - no way that can backfire)
u/notagiantdolphin [+18] (5 hours later)
I like how a lot of insanely difficult things are mentioned as a one sentence throw-away. Bits and pieces that used to be the focus of a chapter are now paragraphs. I wonder if they can eventually reduce this entire list down to a single paragraph of 'oh, then we broke the world over our knee so it'd listen to us'?
Hell, even the reactions of other people to the loop are great. Taiven's fussing over Zorian's arm, Ilsa's concerned about Zorian's mental state (and ethical, I guess, because mind mage), Daimen is a little bit shocked at his brother being able to pull together an obscene amount of money. ZZ just look at all of this and go 'oh, my arm, well, next loop I'd better figure out how to touch my teacher with an obscenely powerful cosmic artefact so she can mass manufacture puppets for me' or 'Heh, that's funny. Let's go beat up my caretaker for stress relief.'.
The first time they told people about the loop, their reactions added a lot to the story. This is even better - it's not even 'real' character development, but it's a great way to illustrate how bizarre it all is.
u/tjhance [+25] (5 hours later)
yeah I really wonder where the narrative is going with Fortov. So far he is pretty flat; Zorian has this image of him as a good-for-nothing asshole, and the conversation between Fortov and Daimen just... kinda confirmed that.
I'm kind of considering the possibility that Fortov is RR now:
- RR "piggy-backing" off the time-loop and being an asshole fits with Fortov's character.
- If Fortov were RR, he would want to mostly avoid Zorian (Zorian might notice something is off). Indeed, Fortov and Zorian mostly avoid each other during the month. Fortov might literally never notice that Zorian was acting differently restart-to-restart. The only time they interact is when Fortov wants Zorian to make the rash potion; he might attribute Zorian's different reactions to minor variations. (That said, it's hard to see how he wouldn't notice that sometimes Zorian takes Kirielle, which is a big strike against this theory.)
- There's been a strange emphasis on how Fortov pushes Ibery into the bush with striking regularity. Why could this be? If Fortov were RR, he would try to act mostly the same in every restart. He might overcompensate, say, by always acting exactly the same way.
- Zorian has no idea what Fortov does during the invasion. He has never seen Fortov during the invasion once, and I think someone drew attention to this at some point.
- The difference in train car occupancy (near the end of Book 1) could be caused by Fortov doing something different.
On the other hand:
- No reason Fortov would be connected to Veyers.
- No reason Fortov would want the invasion to succeed.
- When is he spending all his time getting more powerful, if he's acting like a student all the time?
- If Fortov were RR, why wouldn't he just wipe Zach's memories of Fortov and disappear? Is it because doing so would create too many ripples (e.g. through Zorian) and he wouldn't be able to change Zach's memory that much? ... maybe?
- Presumably RR needs to be an expert soul-mage to tamper with the temp-marker, or able to reach soul-magic proficiency in 6 restarts. It's really unlikely that Fortov is this, unless Fortov is a natural soul mage in the same way Zorian is a natural mind mage, or something. That's a complexity penalty (although I wouldn't feel cheated if this were suddenly revealed at the end).
I'd assign very low confidence to this theory, but it's not that unreasonable, I think.
u/Ardvarkeating101 [+20] Father of Learning (7 hours later)
If Fortov were RR, he would want to mostly avoid Zorian (Zorian might notice something is off). Indeed, Fortov and Zorian mostly avoid each other during the month. Fortov might literally never notice that Zorian was acting differently restart-to-restart. The only time they interact is when Fortov wants Zorian to make the rash potion; he might attribute Zorian's different reactions to minor variations. (That said, it's hard to see how he wouldn't notice that sometimes Zorian takes Kirielle, which is a big strike against this theory.)
He only did that after RR left, meaning Fortov would go back to his loop-standard self.
Presumably RR needs to be an expert soul-mage to tamper with the temp-marker, or able to reach soul-magic proficiency in 6 restarts. It's really unlikely that Fortov is this, unless Fortov is a natural soul mage in the same way Zorian is a natural mind mage, or something. That's a complexity penalty (although I wouldn't feel cheated if this were suddenly revealed at the end).
Fortov could have done exactly what Zorian did to become a good soul mage, use his natural talent as a mind mage to mind-rape soul mages for their knowledge. We don't know if he's actually psychic or not, we just know that he's charming. In fact, we very explicitly don't know if he's psychic or not, since Zorian never took an interest in him.
u/GoXDS [+22] (7 hours later)
except Zorian has seen and been within range of and talked to Fortov. and as he has told Damien, he'd know instantly since Open show up slightly differently to his mind sense. doesn't exclude the possibility that he's a mind mage, but definitely not a psychic nor natural talent for it (Open).
/u/tjhance Fortov himself already explained that (tho you could think that's just an excuse, but unlikely). he was going for extreme measures since nothing else was working
RR is basically 100% no longer in the loop (as RR at least) so suspecting these details to be pointing to him being RR is going red herring territory
u/tjhance [+11] (7 hours later)
yeah so I was trying to get as was something like the following: (i) Normally, Fortov pushes Ibery into the bush, for the reasons he describes (ii) if Fortov becomes RR, he continues to do so just b/c he did the first time and feels he need to be consistent
ummm but yeah, as you point out, he continues to overly-consistently do the bush incident, even after RR leaves (i think? zorian never says otherwise, but zorian doesn't do the normal school-route much after RR leaves), so yeah, it doesn't make any sense to say that his over-consistency is evidence of fortov=RR.
I mostly think fortov=RR is a funny theory, in the sense of the story saying "yeah, you didn't think RR was going to be someone close to zorian because obviously they would notice each other, but don't you remember how much zorian and fortov ignored each other?" I'm not putting any money on it.
But actually I dunno where else the story would be going with Fortov, other than a classic "brothers make up and learn to help each other" arc, which hasn't even begun yet
u/Ardvarkeating101 [+7] Father of Learning (16 hours later)
As mentioned, there are techniques to activate dormant bloodline abilities, Zorian considers developing one for Kirielle
u/GoXDS [+4] (18 hours later)
yes; however, Zorian has interacted with Fortov and RR before RR left and after Zorian has opened up his Open senses and did not see either as Open. plus RR's mind magic was clumsy
u/Ardvarkeating101 [+1] Father of Learning (23 hours later)
A few lessons does not make him automatically aware of other open people and.... cranium rat teachers?
u/GoXDS [+4] (a day later)
In this specific case, it kinda does...? It’s his natural ability. The lessons were only to hone and control it, not activate. He doesn’t have to actively discriminate different signals to check if they’re open. They simply show up differently to him. Remember back to when he first Opened. His teacher told him it’d be easier with other Open around rather than non-Open, thus implying there’s an inherent quality that his senses will passively recognize even without any training or effort
Also by the time RR killed all the Araneans, he has had more than “just a few lessons”
u/Ardvarkeating101 [+2] Father of Learning (a day later)
Easier does not equal instantly aware at all times without any training to do so.
u/GoXDS [+4] (a day later)
ok, scouring through the chapters again, it's not effortless (Ch. 66, slight implication when he met with Damien). however, he still claims to be able to easily tell (maybe not as easily back when RR was still around) Ch. 51 Zorian explicitly states he could tell if his family was. in Ch. 63, he also explicitly states RR is a non-psychic so this implies he was definitely capable back then at least
u/GoXDS [+1] (a day later)
It’s not “easier “. It’s passive. Requiring 0 effort
u/xland44 [+2] (17 hours later)
Where was this mentioned?
u/distrofijus [+5] (17 hours later)
It was during the story about Veyers Boranova. The ritual was lost, he was doing some fishy bloodline ignition and was unstable since.
u/mataamad [+14] (8 hours later)
In the past I've discounted Fortov as a possibility of being red robe as I thought he had no possible direct link to Zach except through Zorian which means pre-Zorian entering the time loop it'd be unlikely for Fortov to find out that Zach is looping (I also discount people like Silverlake, and Zorian's parents for the same reason).
I find the possibility of Fortov being a natural mind mage and having somehow acquired some basic training in it super interesting because it provides a potential path for him to find out about Zach and so become red robe.
It still seems like a pretty big stretch but it makes him a bit more likely. If by leaving the loop Red Robe Fortov has been replaced with an oblivious copy then at least the natural mind mage ability is something testable to determine whether he has the potential to become red robe (unlike say Veyers who it's probably impossible to tell whether he's red robe).
For what it's worth here are my current possible red robe candidates:
- Zach - a rogue simularican, then mindwiped Zach's memory of the ability to create them and do mind magic. Requires some pretty hefty details like a simularican that's a (perfect?) clone of Zach's body that somehow gets his soul marker.
- Veyers - 'obvious red herring'
- Spear of Resolve - this one is pretty reachy, but with their crazy mind magic abilities they could easily have found out about Zach and used a random human pawn to do their bidding (a plus side is they don't even need to turn temporary markers into permanent ones - just copy a mind packet into your pawn and mind control the human into giving you the packet at the start of each restart. After 6 restarts, select a new pawn. Requires being able to get the Lich's crown every 6 restarts and a few other crazy things and the Zorian interactions don't make sense anymore (unless there was a human that somehow didn't return a mind packet so spear of resolve accidentally left the time loop for an unknown amount of time until Zorian stumbled into it).
- Eldemar prince - would be an 'unnamed' red robe - would be kind of disappointing
- Rat controller - would probably be an 'unnamed' red robe - would be kind of disappointing - could be shenanigans similar to the Spear of Resolve stuff. Rat controller seems to be QI, so it implies that in this case he probably did the pawn control type stuff that I said the spiders could do. One point towards this is that it seems super unlikely that the rats wouldn't find out about Zach at least some of the time. One point against is QI not seeming to be in on it when Zorian got bought into the loop.
- Dragon cult member - would be an 'unnamed' red robe - would be kind of disappointing
- (now Fortov too) - strange loop stability, something happens on the train, tenuous link to Zach
In picking Red Robe I'm assuming it'll be following the usual 'rationalist' literature theme of it being an actual solvable problem and also that it'll actually be a good reveal which eliminates a bunch of minor possibilities that'd just be pretty dumb. Honestly I've reviewed every named character in Mother of Learning and I'm a bit stumped for answers that fit perfectly.
u/tjhance [+16] (17 hours later)
Stumped is how I feel as well.
What about Sudomir? I feel he checks the most boxes.
- skilled in soul magic
- has incentive to help the invasion and make it as efficient as possible (to kill more people and collect souls)
- is connected to the cult
- doesn't appear in the story before RR leaves the loop
It would be a bit disappointing (he's not that interesting of a character...) but it makes a lot of sense
u/mataamad [+2] (21 hours later)
I found it interesting that you listed
- doesn't appear in the story before RR leaves the loop
As a good thing.
I've always considered people who aren't in the story until red robe is gone to be very unlikely for narrative reason but your logic makes a lot of sense.
I had listed Sudomir as 'no real reason to suspect' just because I didn't think he really had a good direct connection to Zach, but I suppose he was reasonably likely to interact with him when Zach is messing with invasino stuff.
Mostly I agree that he's not really an interesting character and wouldn't be a very satisfying answer. He'd basically be someone that'd fit the 'random cult of the dragon below' bullet I had listed. I wouldn't be surprised if the real read robe used QI's and/or Sudomir's knowledge to turn the temporary marker permanent though.
u/tjhance [+5] (22 hours later)
I agree about the narrative thing. I just meant that, as far as we know, he may be acting completely differently before and after RR leaves. This can't be said of very many characters.
u/icesharkk [+2] (2 days later)
If RR leaving causes a "normal" person to be left behind then it could absolutely be someone who didn't show up on the radar until after RR left. RR was to busy to play with ZZ and any interest the showed would have given zorian away. Based on zorian successfully remaining hidden thay increases the prior probability that zorian never interfaced with RRs civilian identity prior to RR leaving the loop
Edit: grammar
u/mataamad [+1] (2 days later)
Yeah I totally agree that it works well from a logical perspective. It just means that there's no way for the reader to have a hope of figuring out who read robe is at chapter 39 when he leaves the loop so it doesn't work so well from a narrative perspective.
Some people (like Veyers) were mentioned once or twice in passing which is a little better.
I guess ideally with a known character there could be some subtle clues based on them acting differently after red robe leaves the loop.
u/woschtl [+10] (20 hours later)
What about Tesen Zveri, Zack's caretaker? He has an obvious connection to Zack and the Noveda family, he is a powerful mage, he cheated Zack out of his inheritance and seems shady in general, and he is responsible for donating the Sovereign Gate to the Crown. It's possible that he has special knowledge about the Gate and he might even be connected to starting the time loop in the first place. In that case, he would be in a good position to become Red Robe.
On the other hand, it's strange that he would allow himself to be beaten and humiliated by Zack repeatedly (which happened before Red Robe left the loop). But we only know that indirectly, and I don't think Zorian ever met him when Red Robe was still in the time loop.
Is there anything in the story that obviously exonerates him? Or maybe more hints that he is Red Robe? Couldn't find anything.
(Related: What about the two researchers in the time magic facility? Did Zack interact with the Sovereign Gate in the real world to start the time loop? If yes, they may have been there.)
u/mataamad [+7] (21 hours later)
That is true. I guess the only thing I could add is that Tesen wouldn't really be a very satisfying answer.
I've been wondering for a while if there are any hints in the story about how Zach got in the time loop. I certainly haven't found anything concerete. Tesen is one of the more likely people to have initiated it if Zach was inserted as a necessary pawn because of his heritage or something (which is pretty likely). I think the story implies that the sovereign gate ended up with the Eldemar because of Tesen selling off all of the Noveda belongings but maybe it was on purpose...
I've been leaning towards the gate turning on 1 month early being some sort of divine failsafe because of the imminent primordial summoning (and sucking Zach in because of his heritage) but there isn't any hard evidence for that either.
In terms of the researchers (Krantin Keklos and Aread) , they're first introduced in Chapter 54 and they're only ever mentioned by name in that chapter. Seems super unlikely that they'd be anything bit bit characters for narrative reasons but it's possible.
u/addmoreice [+4] (14 days later)
I like Veyer's lawyer as RR.
Has contacts with the cult. has a connection to veyers *and* possibly zack if we consider zack might have tried to get a lawyer to help him with his caretaker (it's said he sought help in this very way)...who he might then explain 'hey I'm a time traveler, I can totally get more info, let me set this up' which would have quickly backfired on him with *this* lawyer. this would also explain the veyers being 'soul killed', it cuts the link between zack and the lawyer/RR. After all, imagine you have finally gotten into the loop and the only connection between you and zack is this veyers kid...who also starts to loop each time in your damn house when you are trying to get your learning groove on. The moment you have the soul kill ability? you use it! (then discover the new issue).
u/es_carva [+3] (16 days later)
I like your idea of RR making a mistake with the dagger, perhaps he edited Zach's memories so he wouldn't go looking for the now dead Veyers.
However, I don't think he is RR. He is too unskilled to alter his marker within 6 months (is he even a mage?), and on top of this, we know RR was able to more or less shrug off bullets (from Zorian) on day 1 of the timeloop, so he likely had a bloodline before the whole thing started.
u/Capt-POTATO [+3] Chaos Legion (17 days later)
I was under the impression the shrugging off bullets came from the prexisting protective enchantments on the eponymous robe.
u/addmoreice [+2] (16 days later)
your first concern is definitely valid.
The second though, he was the last member of a noble house, a peripheral one but still. This is the main reason I like him for it so much. He can feel the same thing zack has (so could end up being close emotionally), end up being close professionally (solving his problem), has access and connections within the cult of the dragon below, and has some basic mind magic skills. This makes him my number one guess.
u/es_carva [+1] (16 days later)
Huh, you're right, taking all that into account makes him a lot more likely as a candidate. I guess we will soon see how hard it is to change the marker.
u/tjhance [+5] (7 hours later)
He only did that after RR left, meaning Fortov would go back to his loop-standard self.
You mean he only took Kirielle after RR left? That's not true. Zorian first takes Kirielle in chapter 14; RR soul-kills the Aranea in chapter 26.
u/eroticas [+2] (a day later)
Other than the fact that Fortov's narratively a bit of a Chekhov's gun at this point, is there any reason to believe he's important in any way?
(My shot in the dark guess is that he's somehow a looper who became a good guy through the experience who has to pretend to be his past bad self to stay in character, and his goodness will complete Zorian's growth arc)
u/icesharkk [+2] (2 days later)
That seems very anti rational. I'm hoping fortov is a dick and not RR. Sometimes your family members are just assholes and that's that.
u/distrofijus [+4] (7 hours later)
other things (for other people):
silverlake to brew and test her potion
acquire the other beast (worm) from sulrothum and store it along the hydra in orb - make sure they don't attack each other. They may even know each other. Use them as meat shield on royal vault assault to defend while investigating ward stone or to fight off invasion/primordial summoning
test what happens if they drill the well by Bakora gates Silent Doorway Adepts live and see the effects (preferably by the end of restart first to work out kinks. If it works in short term - check what are longer term consequences - drill the hole at the start).
putting tracker on QI. This is kinda risky. The lich is very sensitive and would notice it and after he finds it after restart things might get hairy. Also to be used in tracking his fall back place (mark him while starting fight. After he leaves the current body, track/capture his soul/phylactery. Remove tracker to not cause suspicion on hm. The potential whereabouts of the lich sounds very lucrative, but too risky. Getting hold of his phylactery would open a lot of options / bargaining points.
u/thrasherfect92 [+47] (3 hours later)
I think the best part of this chapter was Ilsa asking Zorian if he was an average mage. He responds that he is, however, from his perspective everything seems normal to him.
Even Damien pointed out that even if you accounted for the years spent in the time loop, Zorian is only a couple years younger than him. However, he has had practically exponential growth in nearly all magical fields. I think Ilsa is also starting to take notice that Zorian isn't an average mage. Even taking into perspective the extra time and resources an "average" mage wouldn't be able to accomplish what Zorian has.
u/notagiantdolphin [+30] (9 hours later)
Makes you wonder if he would be another 'world class' talent if he discovered his natural mind magic in time to prevent it greatly affecting his social development. Or if Daimen helped him, the sod.
Also god I hope Fortov turns out to be something interesting in the story rather than the world's biggest red herring. Maybe he soulkilled Volkov with the knife and leaving the loop just replaces your soul outside while removing the internal you's marker. The entire thing a massive fuck you to Zorian and Daimen for being cleverer than him. The ultimate fucked up family.
u/crazyfoxdemon [+14] (a day later)
I think that's the ticket. His unknown potential actually hindering him early on is what gave him and others the impression that he was 'average'. Even from a few antecedents from Damien gives us the impression that Zorian was not your average kid. If he wasn't forced to cope with an unknown handicap, who knows how far he could've gotten.
u/therealflinchy [+6] (5 days later)
He'd still have been hampered by his tiny mana pool to be fair
I'm also on team fortov 4 rr
u/None [+12] (22 hours later)
It's interesting, because Zach is so much of a combat mage that when we compare the two Zach seems so far ahead. But a lot of that has to do with his massive mana reserves. Zorian seems to have made a lot of out of his 8 years than Zach of his decades.
u/thrasherfect92 [+13] (a day later)
I think part of that could be because Zorian is more introverted than Zach. Zach spent time trying to get to know all of his classmates and some time seducing ladies.
u/signspace13 [+5] (8 days later)
It's great when later Zach states that he think some people would be more afraid of zorian, simply due to his cunning and personality (also mind magic), Zach has never thought of himself as greater than Zorian.
u/None [+3] (8 days later)
That is an interesting thing about Zach's personality. Even when he was a crazy good combat mage in class 8 years ago, he treated Zorian as more of a peer than arguably Zorian treated Zach before the month began. Zorian has grown a bit, but it's still an interesting contrast that I don't think would have happened had it been the other way around.
u/MacDancer [+33] (4 hours later)
He's a perfectly normal average guy who spent eight years working diligently to learn as much as he could. So, abnormal on work ethic.
u/silver7017 [+22] (11 hours later)
he also has a lower than average mana magnitude, which implies a higher ceiling for shaping skill. something that would be of questionable worth in the real world, but is probably a good candidate for the reason zorian got as far as he has (second only to his natural mind magic, that is).
u/None [+19] (5 hours later)
[deleted]
u/Wolpertinger [+48] (8 hours later)
Average mages a decade out of school don't get to experiment with magic in essentially suicidal ways and just get a redo if they die, while simultaneously being encouraged to desperately improve as quickly as possible due to various life-threatening circumstances. They also don't get to game people by repeatedly interacting with them until they learn how to act with someone to make them teach them everything they know, or get to rob other people to have it undone next loop. There's also all the exceptional teachers he would have never interacted with under normal circumstances, as well.
u/thrawnca [+15] Carbon-based biped (a day later)
You forgot the part where he ransacked the minds of a whole swag of people who know restricted/illegal magic; Sudomir is notable among them.
Plus, piggybacking on Zach's much longer experience; the two of them wandered around chasing necromancers etc when looking for the simulacrum spell, and Zorian made sure to pick up any good loot, besides having Zach tutor him directly.
u/sicutumbo [+11] (23 hours later)
He also made it so that he is completely unable to forget something if he puts any effort into remembering it. That has to make learning things vastly easier, and means his skills won't degrade over time.
u/therealflinchy [+2] (5 days later)
Yeah, and given motivation and effort is a big part of what makes someone average or not
Zach had decades before zorian, and he had some mad combat skills but was otherwise a pretty useless mage. Even Zach, since zorian got on board, improved exponentially. And the only reason he learns SOME things faster than zorian, is he has a magnitude larger pool of mana to draw from.
It's pretty clear that improved mental state zorian is a pretty highly talented mage
So it's a pretty small leap of logic to assume that fortov likely has some natural talent too?
u/Xtraordinaire [+30] Team Glimglam (34 minutes later)
I wonder if Alanic will try to find QI's phylactery.
u/crazyfoxdemon [+2] (a day later)
I doubt it'll happen. It's not exactly a top priority all things considered, and QI can be expected to have taken extreme precautions in securing/hiding it away safely.
u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (a day later)
It's a pretty high priority for Alanic, actually. Not as high as "prevent invaders from summoning a primordial and razing Cyoria to the ground" but pretty important nonetheless.
u/-Fender- [+1] (6 days later)
Just thought of something. If they could somehow manage to tag Quatach with the Ring's ability right before he abandons his body when they attempt to recover the Crown, wouldn't they know right away where to look to find the phylactery?
u/teakwood54 [+31] (14 hours later)
"Of course you've dabbled in mind magic too," she said in a strange tone.
"Dabbled?" Zorian huffed. "This annoys me more than it probably should. I did not 'dabble' in it – I'm a natural mind mage who spent years honing his skills."
I loved this part.
u/sambelulek [+6] Ulquaan Ibasa Liquor Smuggler (a day later)
Me too! Y'know, when we're starting to get good about something we get less cocky, even grow doubtful before starting to trust ourselves again that we're indeed having some expertise. What Zorian did here is owning his mastery! If I was Ilsa, I would be doubly impressed.
u/lostatnet [+22] (an hour later)
So, we have Xvim & fellow teachers working on modifying the markers, Ilsa helping politically & with golem-making, & Daimen's group looking for the staff.
Not what I was expecting but still very good to hear. I still want the aranea to experiment with the Bakora Gates & for Zorian to learn aranean webcraft.
Also, now is a good time for Silverlake to betray them. She just needs to leave the loop without telling anyone; possibly messing up the Z team's own plans.
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+32] (6 hours later)
She just needs to leave the loop without telling anyone;
I'm pretty sure she has already been doing this every loop she has been informed. After all, she knows how to get out of the loop: just open up a tunnel through a primordial cage and walk through it. Dangerous as heck sure, but since she would be destroyed at the end of the loop anyway, she might as well chance it.
And so when Z&Z finally exit the loop, they are going to find a whole bunch of Silverlakes outside.
u/tjhance [+7] (22 hours later)
Omg this would be amazing
u/CrystalineAxiom [+5] (a day later)
I think tunneling through a primordial's cage would be a little too dangerous for her to succeed every time.
u/therealflinchy [+3] (5 days later)
What makes you think she has THAT much skill?
Also, doesn't leaving the loop just cut and paste your loop soul into your non loop soul?
So still only one of her
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+3] (5 days later)
What makes you think she has THAT much skill?
The fact that she is IMMORTAL, in a world where magic ability keeps growing with age.
Also, doesn't leaving the loop just cut and paste your loop soul into your non loop soul?
That is only if you leave the loop by asking the Gate Guardian to swap your souls. A tunnel through a primordial cage is an actual physical tunnel, that you can bring your physical body through. So there would be multiple copies of you.
u/therealflinchy [+5] (6 days later)
I thought she wasn't immortal YET, or at least not an ancient immortal? Hence she's still working on better immortality potions?
And as I said in another comment - I was under the impression the loop wasn't a physical recreation with physical bodies, just souls etc being simulated
Hmmm
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+6] (6 days later)
I thought she wasn't immortal YET, or at least not an ancient immortal? Hence she's still working on better immortality potions?
It is never specified how old she is exactly, but she is immortal.
Her problem is just that her current immortality is somewhat defective: Although her lifespan is now indefinite, her body is still that of an old woman, so she suffers various symptoms of old age like wrinkles, random aches, etc. Nothing that would kill her, but annoying nonetheless. She is working on a potion that allows her to regain her youth so she doesn't have to endure all these old age ailments anymore.
And as I said in another comment - I was under the impression the loop wasn't a physical recreation with physical bodies, just souls etc being simulated
Hm? Where did that theory come from? As far as I remember Z&Z have been treating the loop as an actual physical pocket dimension that is massively time-accelerated, containing total copies of everything (souls, physical bodies, etc.) except the spiritual planes.
u/therealflinchy [+2] (6 days later)
Ahh gotcha
Ahh idk, just what I've gathered from reading the chapters/discussion threads lol
Seemed less logical to have it as a 1:1 physical recreation instead of a perfect simulation
u/sambelulek [+2] Ulquaan Ibasa Liquor Smuggler (a day later)
we have Xvim & fellow teachers working on modifying the markers
Mm nope. Xvim doesn't have keen sense about soul. They most likely take over some task out of Zorian's to do list; freeing his time so that it be used for tinkering marker. Xvim also supposedly coax other mages into sharing their most prized expertise. We haven't got mention of him having a break on that matter.
u/LuckyWandering [+1] (2 hours later)
what would be her motivation for doing so though? I can't see any upsides to this.
u/darkflagrance [+9] (3 hours later)
A) mistrust that zorian and zach are keeping up their end of the bargain
B) zach and zorian are potentially rivals and know her weaknesses. Screwing them over takes them out
u/vallar57 [+39] Unseen University: Faculty of High-Energy Magic (41 minutes later)
I don't mind this chapter. Reading various people reactions to being brought in the loop was very interesting. Though the chapter did feel pace-breaking, it was necessary.
u/DerSaidin [+16] (2 hours later)
Satisfying to see details at the start of the loop again for a change :)
u/None [+18] (34 minutes later)
[deleted]
u/tjhance [+56] (54 minutes later)
In contrast, I enjoyed reading the conversations and i liked getting to see Ilsa who we haven't seen much of since early chapters. Although I wish we had gotten more... I was hoping to see more of Taiven's reactions.
u/None [+22] (5 hours later)
[deleted]
u/tjhance [+12] (7 hours later)
yes! i just want moar. i kind of ship them but mostly i just friend-ship them :3
u/sambelulek [+33] Ulquaan Ibasa Liquor Smuggler (an hour later)
I disagree wholeheartedly. If you do that, the characters might as well be dead, in unfeeling and unthinking sense. Getting a glimpse into how they cope with new reality shows they're indeed living in the story.
edit: I believe it's not necessary, but it's good to add that conservation of detail is of higher priority when including supporting character's reaction into a chapter. Or, like Zorian opinion on Neolu's naivete, it's cute in small dose.
u/crazyfoxdemon [+0] (a day later)
Not every chapter can be a mole a minute. A lighter change of pace is nice every now and again.
u/thrasherfect92 [+55] (21 minutes later)
That chapter felt... short.
u/InfernoVulpix [+30] (2 hours later)
This chapter was about 6.5k words, and the last chapter was about 10k, so it's shorter than last chapter. Overall, though, most chapters are closer to 6-7k words, so it's not shorter than normal.
There was a lot of dialogue and not a lot of new things, since a large part of the chapter was Zorian explaining things to Ilsa and Ilsa wrapping her head around it. Necessary, but it eats up a lot of words on stuff that, from our perspective, has already been trodden.
u/SpeculativeFiction [+12] (33 minutes later)
It was very much a filler chapter. Mostly re-cap, with virtually nothing new. Kind of a let down, really.
u/megazver [+76] (an hour later)
Character development isn't filler.
I thought it was great.
u/SpeculativeFiction [+38] (an hour later)
Character development isn't filler.
I completely agree! Many of the chapters where we learn more about Taiven, Xvim, Kael, Ilsa, or others are fantastic.
But we didn't really learn anything new this chapter. If this was a sitcom or anime, this chapter would be the equivalent of a flashback episode. Every section was essentially a recap.
Ilsa's huge section felt nearly identical to the earlier train rides with Kirielle, just with a couple interjections of things we already knew. Unlike when Taiven or Xvim first started believing in the loop, her reactions just didn't feel right.
Daimen's section, which made up most of the rest, was even worse in that regard.
We learned that Z&Z are planning to take other people out of the loop with them, and that they're mounting a new expedition. That's about it.
If MoL was released as a book, I doubt anyone would really notice, but when it's released chapter by chapter, it hits a little harder. You have weeks of built up anticipation for each chapter, and they don't all measure up the same. Especially with the level of hype other, more interesting chapters have created.
I think people were hoping to see people interacting with others they hadn't really talked to before, conducting raids, or even just sharing new backstories. The fact that people can develop inside the loop was exciting.
u/LuckyWandering [+20] (3 hours later)
well, it's more like a transition chapter than a filler chapter. It's not supposed to describe them believing the loop so much, but their curiosity now about the implications of the loop and their temporary ability to gain from it.
And yes, it feels similar to every other ride with Kirielle - this portrays how everyone has an immediate desire to satisfy Questions about the situation, but such discussions are limited by the need to preserve the quasi-secret nature of their situation within public contexts.
I'm sure we'll get to people conducting efforts with new allies, but we barely knew who was receiving markers before, and spending some time with their concerns about being included also signals to us that they aren't viewed as tools by Z&Z, as explicitly described in the chapter as well.
Can't really say I had a handle on Damien's personality to expect something specific from him, and I think interactions with Ilsa were meant to be representative for all the people they don't have close relationships with. These people are now going to have to start 'opening up' but are understandably somewhat wary at first and spend more time initially observing Z& Z to see the effect /implications of the loop.
u/Diggsi [+1] (4 days later)
With so many more time looters I wouldn't be surprised if this was a comparison chapter to see how messed up the norm will be.
QI is more likely to find out about the time loop due to all the new disruption. If QI starts soul killing loopers, or finds out how to bring other people into the loop with the crown, then there will be some trouble.
u/addmoreice [+2] (14 days later)
Are we sure that someone without a marker can use the crown for that purpose?
u/Diggsi [+1] (14 days later)
QI is the only one who can damage ZZ, so he is the only one who could blackmail or put plants into their crew. You're right though, it does seem less likely and we haven't seen that style of plot so far.
u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (26 days later)
"time looters", heh :D. You're not wrong...
u/rilianus [+2] (48 minutes later)
Like the shortest yet.
u/Bezant [+1] (an hour later)
A little robotic.
u/Laser68 [+15] (20 minutes later)
I did wonder if Kirielle would be included. Taiven continues to be a low key amusing character. Did not expect Ilsa to have so much dialogue, interesting character choice for exposition. Bit of a slow chapter however, just setting up for a collaborative loop
u/LieutenantPoly [+14] (2 hours later)
So to cover what we learned.
Ilsa wants to study the time loop to help with her true creation, and was brought in for her conections.
Kyron has military friends.
ZZ think they can just walk out if they have the key.
Damien will now be looking for the staff.
Did I miss anything?
u/I-want-pulao [+12] (3 hours later)
Fortov has been getting piled on more regularly by Zorian in the last few chapters (or maybe more people are calling him out on it..). It's just getting to be more and more lampshaded.... But yes, accurate summary.
u/crazyfoxdemon [+4] (a day later)
I need something to come from the Fortov stuff. Him being the world's largest red herring would be....... arrgh?
u/I-want-pulao [+8] (a day later)
I'm not sure where I read this theory, but someone said it'd be funny (read: annoyingly funny) if Fortov has a really useful clue and turns out to be key to them getting out. That would burn Zorian like nothing else haha.
I don't think he's Red Robe, although that does have a nice symmetry to it (in order to live up to Daimens shadow, the two brothers both use the loop but in a different way altogether). However, Fortov does seem to be good natured (checking up on Zorian and Kiri when Zach punches, has a believable excuse for Ibery purple creeper scene, and when offended at Daimen Zorian notes that the normally easy going Fortov was quite angry with Daimen) so I don't think he's RR.
u/icesharkk [+3] (2 days later)
Much of that could just be post RR leaving the loop. At which point Fortov would have either reverted or been soul dead. Since fortov is alive he's either not RR or he's just post RR normal Fortov
u/I-want-pulao [+5] (2 days later)
That makes sense. However, from Ch 1- Ch26 (Soulkill), Fortov keeps pushing Ibery into the patch. Also, there are a few restarts when Zorian takes Kirielle with him. Even if Fortov during Ch1-26 is a simulacrum, he should note these changes because they occur so early in the loop. So my guess is that he isn't RR.
u/icesharkk [+4] (2 days later)
Logical. I don't want Fortov to be RR but I did want to point out the soulkill revert logic since it applies to several powerful characters. Hell RR could be Silverlake and she could have engraved a message on the wall lot the primordial cell for herself to find. She could do that now even without being RR.
Have I mention that bringing Silverlake into the loop was a terrible idea.
u/I-want-pulao [+2] (2 days later)
Well they needed pocket dimension expertise, and they are too goody two shoes to not drop her after they got it. I'd have made an exception to use her for her knowledge and drop her, stat.
Honestly, I'm glad that RR is still a mystery. nobody103 has played this pretty close to his chest, I'm looking forward to seeing the reveal at the end. I'm guessing we won't find out until ZnZ leave the loop, and even then it might take a while as everyone would want to lay low to begin with (apart from using information to make opening moves like the cranium rat swarm hunt, save Alanic et al, etc)
u/therealflinchy [+1] (5 days later)
Has he even stated it's someone we know or not?
u/I-want-pulao [+2] (5 days later)
Not to my knowledge! However, knowing how many things showed up in the first loop (cranium rats, Nochka, etc) that only became obvious later, I'd bet on him already being there. That lawyer friend of Veyers is a good shout. Keeping in mind that the nobody103 had decided everything before starting the story (non-plot critical elements notwithstanding), I think it's fair to say that RR is hiding somewhere, if not in plain sight, at least in view somewhere.
At the same time, there are characters mentioned that show up suddenly (Mage Guild rep who was also with the Cult of the Dragon Below, Alanic, etc) so it can happen. Plus it'll be a new character to understand etc as well.
u/therealflinchy [+1] (5 days later)
Nah cos pre timeloop fortov, if he was RR, would have RR's plans in his head
If he was reset to pre-loop programming, his main goal would be to now get a temp marker, then make it permanent.
u/icesharkk [+2] (5 days later)
not if he didnt learn about hte time loop until he was already in it. how would he have known about the loop before it started?
u/therealflinchy [+1] (6 days later)
He has to have, to know to get a marker to then make it permanent etc.
The prevailing theory is RR had it all planned out pre-loop and he started it early
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+13] (6 hours later)
Hmm? Now that I think about it, the temporary marker mechanism is really strange. At first, I thought the marker's degradation or removal would permanently scar the target's soul in some way, making it impossible to mark them again in the same restart. But since everyone without a working marker gets a new soul in the next restart (thus losing all their magic growth and memories), their souls should be markable again in the next restart.
Yet now we're told that it is impossible to mark a target again for 12 restarts. So some other mechanism has to be keeping count for those 12 restarts, and it can't be a part of the target's soul since their souls get replaced every restart...
u/Revisional_Sin [+8] (8 hours later)
I'm guessing it's a deliberate limitation of the crown. Should be pretty easy to work around, just copy paste the marker.
u/Watchful1 [+2] (20 hours later)
Or maybe they'll just be able to look at the markers and "see" a counter or something that they can increase. But surely that's too easy.
u/ajuc [+5] (a day later)
This could be a security measure for the benefit of the controller. Temporarily marked people have huge incentive to become the controller somehow or blackmail the controller to let them survive the loop with memories.
If it's impossible even for the controller to do that, then it's one less security problem to think about.
u/sambelulek [+1] Ulquaan Ibasa Liquor Smuggler (a day later)
Now that you mentioned it, it's definitely a plot hole. Not that it can't be easily resolved. Simply have the crown record 3 values into Gate mechanism for each marked souls: ID of soul to be pulled back, countdown until that soul stop being pulled back, and countdown until this record erased from Gate mechanism (so that new record can be made without any conflict).
This require the Gate to have an instruction layer to be executed before each start of a loop. But this is already present as Gate already have record of controller ID, what's inside the orb, what souls' ID to not be recreated, so on and so forth.
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+4] (a day later)
But this is already present as Gate already have record of controller ID,
But it doesn't! The fact that Zorian is in the loop strongly sugggests that the Gate just looks for markers, and does not actually record which souls have markers. After all, Zorian joined the loop via a botched soul magic spell on him and Zach, which transferred a piece of Zach's marker onto Zorian. If the Gate had any kind of record used to confirm who the controller is before allowing the controller to keep his soul in the next restart, it wouldn't have let Zorian join in. And if the Gate doesn't even record who has the permanent marker(s), why would it record who has temporary markers?
u/sambelulek [+1] Ulquaan Ibasa Liquor Smuggler (a day later)
You are right. This is bigger hole than I previously thought. Have you thought of possible solution?
u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (a day later)
The Gate is capable of altering the template; that's how soulkill is implemented, and also the ring's tracking function. It's not unreasonable to suppose that when a temporary marker is placed, it makes a reversible alteration to the template, marking that soul as ineligible for re-marking until the counter runs out.
Of course, if you found some way to extend the life of a temporary marker, rather than placing a new one, you could bypass such a check...
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+2] (a day later)
Every solution I think of ultimately implies that the Gate has some security measures implemented for temporary markers, but not for the permanent markers, which would be extremely odd.
But now that I think about it, that oddity can be explained by Red Robe. We know that Red Robe has messed with the Gate's mechanisms somehow, tricking the Gate Guardian into thinking that he is the controller and allowing him to leave. It is possible that Red Robe simply disabled all the security measures that the Gate had for permanent markers (without bothering about the temporary markers), and thus unintentionally allowed Zorian to join the loop.
u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (2 days later)
A safeguard against re-applying a temporary marker after it expires would do nothing to affect a Controller marker, which doesn't expire.
u/GoXDS [+1] (2 days later)
Could’ve been negligence, where they’ve expected the safeguards on the original marker were foolproof enough
u/rtsynk [+3] (a day later)
i don't see the problem, just have a marker that counts down from 12 or whatever
the first 6 times the rest of the soul is preserved, the last 6 times only the marker is preserved
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+1] (a day later)
just have a marker that counts down from 12 or whatever
But what is this marker on? It can't be on their soul, because they get new souls after the 6th restart.
u/rtsynk [+5] (a day later)
just reattach the marker with the appropriate count
if (soulCurrent.marker == null || soulCurrent.marker.count < 1)
{soulNew = soulOriginal;}
else if (soulCurrent.marker.count < 7)
{ soulNew = soulOriginal;
soulNew.marker = soulCurrent.marker;
soulNew.marker.count--;}
else
{soulNew = soulCurrent;
soulNew.marker.count--}
u/thrawnca [+2] Carbon-based biped (2 days later)
It can be on the template copy of their soul.
u/sambelulek [+1] Ulquaan Ibasa Liquor Smuggler (3 days later)
Your solution is basically the same as mine; store an information. The problem is, where is this information got to be stored? I proposed a new layer of instruction on top of the template, but later I was shown that controller marker and other artifacts can work without it. This imply a rule that information can only be stored by either marking the soul or by directly tamper the template.
By the implied rule, storing crown information on soul should deny 12 turn cooldown period, because you will get pristine soul after the temp marker run out or revoked. Storing crown information on template should deny recreation of pristine soul.
Also, rule of fun stated that you can still enjoy a work even if you don't exactly know the nitty gritty of why things go certain way. But this is r/rational, where future reveal must not invalidate rule established beforehand. This 12 turn cooldown rule invalidated the implied rule.
u/therealflinchy [+1] (5 days later)
I'm assuming the souls are semi persistent or even fully persistent like ZZ, just they get a more comprehensive erasure
And it's easy for the system to erase the static loop data/one month's memories
But 6 months memories cause more soul damage
u/I-want-pulao [+7] (3 hours later)
- Taiven's throwaway comment re there being 3 of her, meaning there will be at least 2 of her walking around if they just walk out of the loop. How easy will this be when not everyone is Zorian and a soul/mind mage (ie, they can't do a mind swap/soul eject)?
- I liked Ilsa as a conduit into the thought processes of other people who are not members of the conspiracy. Although in the edited book (when it's released etc) this scene should be really fun to watch as they ask questions and get a temp marker in exchange.
Weird that my other comment didn't show up, I thought I posted it..
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+15] (6 hours later)
How easy will this be when not everyone is Zorian and a soul/mind mage (ie, they can't do a mind swap/soul eject)?
My understanding is that there's three ways out of the time loop: either you trick the Sovereign Gate Guardian into thinking you are the controller and ask him to let you leave, you use the 5 keys to force the controller to let you leave, or you open up an a tunnel through a primordial cage from inside the time loop to the outside.
If the last method is used, anyone can leave the time loop, regardless of skill, since they just need to walk through the tunnel. There just needs to be some skilled mages "carrying" the party, maintaining the tunnel and casting spells to prevent whatever primordial is in the cage from killing them all.
u/I-want-pulao [+4] (21 hours later)
I'm concerned about what happens once they do exit the the loop. If the copy!Taiven and copy!Xvim are walking around in the real world, what does that mean for the original!Taiven etc. Zorian can soul meld or mind meld his way into his original body, what about the others?
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+3] (21 hours later)
Wait, why would you want to merge with your original body? What's wrong with just having two of you around?
u/I-want-pulao [+3] (21 hours later)
This is a world where mana signatures are kept and it's hard to fool identity sensors.
This is also a world in which Zach and Zorian want to remain as low key as possible. If they have two of a few people running around, with those people nowhere near as powerful or able to keep their minds protected, bye bye to Zach and Zorian's privacy.
Thirdly, what does this mean for everyone with copies? I'm sure original!Zorian would take the offer to forget his family and go do his own thing, but not everyone will be willing to live in anonymity and hiding.
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+5] (23 hours later)
This is also a world in which Zach and Zorian want to remain as low key as possible.
They do? How would that work? When they exit the time loop, they have to deal with the Invasion of Cyoria by QI, the soul trap of Sudomir, the Cult of the Dragon Below and its connections to the Mage Guild, possibly the Primordial they unleash, and worst of all: Red Robe, who has gone through tons of loop iterations without having his mind messed with like Zach, and will help out all of the above enemies.
If they do nothing, the Primordial is almost certainly going to be unleashed and wreck havoc on the entire continent. And it will never stop or go away on its own because it isn't a spiritual summon. The only way to stop that is to go fight all the enemies, which seems impossible to do so while remaining low key. They aren't going to have any privacy unless everyone dies or Zorian forcefully regains their privacy by mind wiping everyone.
Thirdly, what does this mean for everyone with copies? I'm sure original!Zorian would take the offer to forget his family and go do his own thing, but not everyone will be willing to live in anonymity and hiding.
I don't see what the big deal is. They don't have to live in anonymity or hiding. The duplicates are just like having finding a long lost identical twin. Just tell the truth or call it a magical accident caused by the planetary alignment. While it may cause some difficulties adjusting to life with duplicates, it's a minor issue compared to the invasion of Cyoria.
u/GoXDS [+6] (a day later)
You’re greatly underestimating the problems that comes with this. There’s logistical and emotional issues along with potential ethical and economical and political issues
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+3] (a day later)
I'm comparing the state of the world in which there are duplicates of people, and the state of the world in which the duplicates are merged with the originals. In both cases, Cyoria is going to be the site of a large-scale battle between time loopers and their allies, and battle that will potentially unleash a freaking primordial to cause destruction across the entire continent. The problems caused by such a battle far outweigh the problems caused by having duplicates of people. The former may even solve the latter because tons of people (including originals/duplicates) will die.
u/GoXDS [+7] (a day later)
regardless of relative scale of the problem, it's still a problem nonetheless. simulacrums cause people enough issues as is. not everyone can live with a copy of themselves (most wouldn't even be able to confidently say how they'd react until such a situation, hence why Zorian was told to always dismiss simulacrums quickly).
there's inheritance, living space, current positions, relationships. this is not only a huge problem to solve for those accommodating the two, it's also a headache for the two people. who gets what?
how does the government hold people accountable for any crimes? even if the situation in which the government must check never happens, they have to consider it ahead of time. if one is convicted, how do you know which one did it? must you jail both of them since they're "exactly" the same person so the "innocent" one would/could do the same?
u/ArgentStonecutter [+3] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (a day later)
copy!Taiven and copy!Xvim are the same as original!Taiven and original!Xvim with some more experience and memories. "Melding" with the original is topologically identical to "overwriting" the original.
It would be an issue if the original versions had experienced anything independently from the copies, so a "meld" would have to involve duplicating and merging memories, but nothing is lost in simply overwriting them.
u/I-want-pulao [+2] (a day later)
Yes, but then everyone has to do the overwriting - so far that's not an easy thing for non-soul mages. How will the others go about convincing their old selves to be overwritten? The ethical ramifications boggle my mind at least haha.
u/ArgentStonecutter [+2] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (a day later)
You're assuming that anything but the soul gets to leave the loop.
The impression I got was that leaving the loop would be just like another restart, except in the real world.
u/therealflinchy [+2] (5 days later)
Where did the tunnel idea come from?
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+2] (5 days later)
I don't remember the exact chapter. I think it was one of the chapters soon after they tell Silverlake about the time loop, and Silverlake was all "if we're really in a loop, primordial cages would be different!"
u/sambelulek [+1] Ulquaan Ibasa Liquor Smuggler (a day later)
Taiven definitely didn't think as far as whether it's possible to escape. Her offhand comment served to probe Zorian plan regarding the fate of new loopers. I'd say, it served her well. About what will actually happen, everyone must wait until Zorian found at least one
workablepossible solution.
u/therealflinchy [+1] (5 days later)
Which comment is that?
Plus the time loop, when you leave just overwrites the soul, which is why it's an issue to have more than one person leave it, as the OG soul isnt consenting blah blah. So there won't be two of anyone unless placed into simulacra
u/I-want-pulao [+2] (5 days later)
It's here:
>"And what, you're just going to continue in the time loop alone afterwards?" Taiven asked. "Or are you just going to create new temporary loopers once we're gone? And then get them out too? I don't know about the rest, but I think the world doesn't need three different Taivens."
The conjecture is: if they physically walk out of the loop via a Primordial tunnel, they have multiples of everyone walking about except for Zach. If they unlock the Gate and let everyone out, same deal. However, If they use the Guardian of the Threshold as a typical looper, then what you say happens (as it did with RR).
u/therealflinchy [+1] (6 days later)
Hmmm
I was under the impression that the loop was more a sinulation, rather than a complete physical clone of the world with actual physical bodies that can escape
u/I-want-pulao [+1] (6 days later)
Nah, ch 55 after the meeting with the Guardian of the Threshold, Zorian says that that they are flesh and blood. So complete physical clone, with the soul of the controller being repeatedly placed anew, with everyone else being created and destroyed every month.
u/therealflinchy [+1] (6 days later)
Hmmmmm
Excessive!
Throws out my theory of why it takes 12 resets to apply a new temp marker too then
u/I-want-pulao [+1] (6 days later)
What was it, I'm curious haha
u/therealflinchy [+2] (6 days later)
That it had to do with the damage to the soul erasing 6mths worth of changes causes
Actually maybe it doesn't throw it out, but it also doesn't really matter lol
u/MaddoScientisto [+5] (an hour later)
I didn't expect the chapter to be out this fast... And I didn't expect it to end this fast either
u/DerSaidin [+4] (43 minutes later)
Typos
litter brother
u/scalymonster [+3] (48 minutes later)
after the twelve restarts have passed
Shouldn't this be six restarts?
u/nobody103 [+25] (an hour later)
No, it's really twelve. After the temporary marker runs out, you need to wait six more restarts before you can apply it again.
u/rtsynk [+6] (an hour later)
so unless they figure out a workaround, they only have one more opportunity the bring the whole crew in again
u/distrofijus [+2] (8 hours later)
It seems that you answering some of the concerns raised by comments on the next chapters. Is this coincidence and if not how often you opt to clarify some things due to comments?
Was there ever anything in the comments (some points/ideas you didn't come up yourself) which you've liked and included in your creation? If there was - would you admit to it? :)
u/nobody103 [+15] (10 hours later)
I do sometimes clarify things based on comments from the readers. I'm not sure how common it is, but I don't think it happens too often.
Yes, actually. Nothing that is truly story critical, since important stuff has long since been decided, but I remember at least one thing I changed because I liked the fan speculation better. I'd be willing to admit it but not until the story is over. :)
u/melmonella [+15] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (14 hours later)
Is it the "RR is Kirielle standing on Nochka's shoulders" theory?
u/somerandomguy2008 [+13] (15 hours later)
No. That was obviously planned well in advance.
u/thrawnca [+2] Carbon-based biped (a day later)
I did appreciate the grey hunter flashbang :)
u/notagiantdolphin [+1] (a day later)
What's the single strangest bit of speculation you've seen so far for MoL?
u/nobody103 [+6] (a day later)
I recall finding some of the theories bizarre, but for the life of me I can't remember what they were. Most of them were just people trying to cover all the possible angles or deliberately trying to think up something unexpected, I think.
u/rtsynk [+3] (an hour later)
you wanted out help > our
Admitted Zorian > admitted (lower case)
Zach said." > extraneous quote mark
it doesn't really matter than your marker will run out > that
u/thrawnca [+2] Carbon-based biped (a day later)
the six restart/the sixth restart
on nine-year-old/on a nine-year-old
and spoken the same/and spoke the same
but feel it's only/but I feel it's only
the only one to take/the only one to make
at loss for words/at a loss for words
It also gave me/It's also given me
It also put me/It's also put me
gears turning into/gears turning in
opportunity time loop represented/opportunity the time loop represented
diplomatically-inclined/diplomatically inclined (no need for hyphen after -ly)
supposed know/supposed to know
after the twelve restarts/after twelve restarts
doesn't really matter than/doesn't really matter that
the trust of Silent/the trust of the Silent
wanted to talk to people/wanted to talk to the people
u/nipplelightpride [+1] (20 hours later)
Did the marker we give you work
I think it's supposed to be "gave", but after reading it another couple of times both versions might work?
u/tokol [+1] The Greater Good (a day later)
Somehow, I missed an update, so these are for Chapter 85:
"The high priest can use it to command some a sand worm of immense size hidden beneath the sands of this place," Storm Dream said.
command some a sand worm -> command a sand worm
They once again achieved their goal, successfully fought their way out of the capital city and then kept running from the Eldemar military until Quatach-Ichl figured out the nature tracking device that was used to track them.
nature tracking device -> nature of the tracking device
As an endless barrage of incinerating rays, impossibly sharp dimensional blades and disintegration blasts suddenly rained down on his, he quietly blocked, dodged, teleported and retaliated in return.
on his -> on him
Several hidden wards and traps that Zach and Zorian prepared in the area in advanced activate, only to be shattered and neutralized by Quatach-Ichl.
in advanced activate -> in advance activated
And finally, a small number was special.
was -> were
For a moment, the whole battlefield stilled. Quatach-Ichl was momentarily frozen in place, a look surprise on his face.
a look surprise -> a look of surprise
Zach and Zorian waiting with baited breaths to see if the lich would collapse into a lifeless pile of bones in the aftermath.
u/tokol [+1] The Greater Good (7 days later)
you were explaining how time loop works.
how time loop -> how the time loop
He had pretty much been a cripple the last time the she had seen him.
the she -> that she
"Right, if Red Robe could have done it, surely all of us working together should be able to work something up," Zach said."
Extra double quote (") at the end.
"We will hopefully gather the entire Key before all six restarts run out, at which point we will be able to unblock the exit," Zorian said. "If we have an exit method also ready by then, we might be able to just get you out of the time loop at that point. At which point it doesn't really matter than your marker will run out."
(Subjective) Unnatural placement for the "also".
than your marker -> that your marker
u/sambelulek [+4] Ulquaan Ibasa Liquor Smuggler (an hour later)
wooo, nice warm up! Looking forward for benefits and complications in next several chapters.
u/GodKiller999 [+3] (an hour later)
Seems very wasteful to leave if they're done in 6 months, Zach might be almost as good as he's gonna get, but Zorian could still do a whole lot if he plays his cards right.
u/Seyt77 [+13] (5 hours later)
They don't want to risk it
u/gridpoint [+2] (8 hours later)
If they do manage to leave on the first try. There's no guarantee for that.
u/therealflinchy [+2] (5 days later)
The issue is, a method to gather a way to get out is pretty unicorn, so if they achieve it they want to take it
u/asdkant [+3] (a day later)
updated (author-approved) ebook builds for anyone interested: https://github.com/asdkant/bookify-mol/releases/tag/c86
u/None [+4] (10 hours later)
[deleted]
u/ArgentStonecutter [+2] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (28 minutes later)
Have not read yet, just amused that this showed up next to a post titled "The collapse marker needs to be a direct toggle". Of course!
u/abcd_z [+1] (4 hours later)
"Of course! Why didn't I think of that?"
u/Shakeq [+1] (a day later)
I don't know if it's allowed but I'll ask anyway.
I started reading Mother of Learning way back, maybe 4 years ago maybe and I stopped. I would like if someone here remember the chapter where Zorian first learned he's an empath. I remember something about a mansion burning and the spiders coming to help but I forgot. I would like to start reading again.
u/distrofijus [+5] (a day later)
how about just starting over. a lot of details surface - it shouldn't be that many chapters and you don't remember much by now.
u/rtsynk [+3] (2 days later)
he first learns he's an empath in ch 16, not sure about the burning mansion
u/rtsynk [+2] (2 days later)
the timeline might be a good place to start:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZVanJNuiZFmywxl4Vv57vBigADLIjhgXLYF85S8deJ4/edit#gid=0
u/Shakeq [+1] (2 days later)
Thanks. Should I be wary of spoilers? If so I'll take the advice to read it from the beginning, it's a good story so why not
u/rtsynk [+2] (2 days later)
not really, the comments are very brief, just enough to jog your memory and only go through ch 52 anyways
u/LLJKCicero [+0] (17 hours later)
I'm kind of surprised that he hasn't picked up the pace in releases a bit. 3 weeks is, like, little side hobby pacing.
The reason this seems odd to me is that his patreon shows him as having an income from each MoL chapter comparable to the average monthly wage for workers in Croatia. If he can get that much from each chapter, it seems like the logical thing to do would be to make this his full-time job and up the speed, and thus his income. It's what Zorian would do!
u/Menolith [+14] Unworthy Opponent (18 hours later)
It's not just a matter of being able to generate X amount of revenue. Anyone should be leery of dropping their job at the drop of a hat the moment a side project gains traction.
u/LLJKCicero [+3] (18 hours later)
Fair enough, it'd only make sense to do if he had a safety net or high confidence in being able to re-acquire a regular job.