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[RT][HF] A Practical Guide to Evil: Book 4: Chapter 22: Trip
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Author: u/Zayits *
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URL: https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpress.com/2018/06/18/chapter-22-trip/
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Score: 85
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Created: 2018-06-18T04:00:30
Post:
Comments:
u/melmonella [+32] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (an hour later)
Hah. Cat sets up a narrative where Mentor offs himself to save the Hero with her as the Hero, Pilgrim goes for it expecting Cat to become Good as a result, and at the last moment, Cat switches with Ubua.
Since Pilgrim is in effect sacrificing himself for Ubua (and other story moments could apply to her about as much as to Cat - remind me, who woke up for Cat's heroic "wake up when friends are in danger" moment a couple chapters past?), Ubua gets redeemed and Cat stays a villain.
10/10 future ploy by Cat Black would be proud.
u/HeWhoBringsDust [+8] (2 hours later)
Unusual DID want to be redeemed. Along with that, I’m unsure if Cat can even properly die by this point since her soul’s so interwoven with Winter that using it allows her to return. Slight feeling that she might “undergo” a redemption but then return from death
u/Zayits [+9] (3 hours later)
Did your autocorrect just replace "Ubua" with "Unusual"? Had she not explicitly shown that she wanted to be crowned as Dread Empress Magnificent, I would make a reigning name joke out of this.
Also, assuming she keeps her speciality after being redeemed (since the heroes didn't swear away devils, and no branch of magic is inherently Evil), how powerful do you think her bindings will be wile powered by a Choir? We already know that most devils can't survive even a gaze of an angel, and her propensity for resisting the mental bleedover (potentially combined with leaning into whatever side of her Name would be dominant) could allow her to avoid the standard Heavens-induced heroic lobotomy.
Alternatively, given the link she has to Catherine's mantle, she can instead transition into Arcadia-based summoner Name, with fae/elves as her primary summons.
u/PrettyDecentSort [+13] (8 hours later)
Having a tattered cloak as a Dread Empress would certainly qualify as Unusual.
u/melmonella [+5] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (4 hours later)
I think devils are Evil though.
u/Zayits [+3] (12 hours later)
So? Reflecting Evil unto Evil is a thing, doubly so if the enemy is an otherwoldly entity themselves like Dead King / his devils and demons / the Wild Hunt.
u/melmonella [+2] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (13 hours later)
It's more reflecting though - using things already on the field - instead of summoning, though. Or so I feel. Fey would be a good pick though.
u/CouteauBleu [+2] We are the Empire. (5 hours later)
I'm pretty sure the narrative forces of the universe aren't that powerful and easy to manipulate. They're supposed to be subtle and crap.
u/Ardvarkeating101 [+29] Father of Learning (18 minutes later)
Well, looks like more philosophical talks with the Pilgrim are on the horizon, though with the amusing tint of him grandfatherly convincing her to kill herself.
It's like having /r/drama as an in-law.
u/CouteauBleu [+16] We are the Empire. (24 minutes later)
Cat is making a lot of assumptions about the Pilgrim's intentions here. I expect them to turn out to be right, be she's speculating a lot with not much to go on.
u/Weebcluse [+21] (an hour later)
Cat knows Pilgrim is experienced with a specialty in Narrative and completely opposed to her being a villain. I think Cat's conclusions are accurate if unflattering.
From Pilgrim's point of view, he sees redemption has both good and Good. He mentioned how big of a advocate he is of it during his first talk with Cat. And if Cat goes to a early grave right after being redeemed, well that is a tragedy but if Cat gets a spot in Heaven after turning then her death would be merely bittersweet.
u/werafdsaew [+3] (12 hours later)
Well GP maneuvered himself to be around. He's sacrificing his ability to help the other Heroes, so what is he getting in return?
u/Zayits [+5] (3 hours later)
The other royals would return to Procer, where Hasenbach wouldn’t be able to blame them – Prince Amadis, after all, was the official leader of the army. And the man himself would be out of the First Prince’s reach to punish, not that she’d be able to after he’d become a hostage to save his men. He’d come out of this smelling like roses, a tragic figure who had fallen prey to the wickedness of the Black Queen. Meanwhile his allies in Procer would be building the altar of his legend so when he returned it would be to the praise of the thousands instead of blackened by inglorious defeat.
Isn't Amadis' position being strenghtened in opposition to Hasenbach beneficial for Cat? I know she doesn't need Cordelia too occupied, or Malicia has a free hand in the negotiations with Catherine, but shaking the throne under the First Prince might yield some kind of advantage.
u/Ibbot [+5] (15 hours later)
Sure, but she wants him to be worse off for having invaded Callow, and it looks like he won't be.
u/None [+2] (16 hours later)
Generally, you want to replace the person on the throne with someone who is more sympathetic to you. The political instability in the short term may be beneficial, but the long term consequences of having a strong expand-into-Callow and anti-Black-Queen faction in general are probably bad.
u/themousehunter [+4] Sunshine Regiment (50 minutes later)
I'm really scared for Cat right now. Hope she makes it out of this alive, even if she thinks her dying will be worth it.
u/Sarkavonsy [+18] (3 hours later)
At this point, I feel more confident about Cat's survival than I did at the start of the chapter.
We now explicitly know that the redemption equals death storyline is Pilgrim's objective, but we don't know what Cat's plan to turn it around on him is. Unspoken Plan Guanratee gives Cat the advantage - in fact, in a story where people don't explicitly wield tropes against eachother, I think a chapter like this would guarantee that Cat will come out on top, at least in this conflict between her and Pilgrim.
u/Chesheire [+9] (7 hours later)
Warning! TVTropes links! Browse at your own time-risk.
u/Empiricist_or_not [+7] Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm (7 hours later)
Thank you for the warning. We need a bot for this.
u/TheTrikki [+1] (a day later)
We now explicitly know that the redemption equals death storyline is Pilgrim's objective
We don't know if that's Pilgrim's objective, it was just Cat jumping into conclusions. Yeah, she will probably be right, but there ought to be dozens of other story tropes that Pilgrim or Cat could apply to this situation.
but we don't know what Cat's plan to turn it around on him is
I feel it's quite convenient that Akua just happens to be aiming for a redemption story too. That said, another (and much more boring) solution for Cat would be "not participating", i. e. avoiding any kind of story that Pilgrim'll attempt to form.
u/Flamesmcgee [+1] (a day later)
redemption equals death
She's going to bait and switch and divert the story into a redemption equals sex scenario instead?
u/CouteauBleu [+10] We are the Empire. (5 hours later)
The fact that she plans to abdicate as soon as possible, plus we have a few snippets of her friends saying "The historians think X about Foundling" suggest that she won't stick around forever, even if we're not sure about the specifics.
u/Empiricist_or_not [+6] Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm (7 hours later)
Anybody offering betting odds against her ending up as Winter in the tower enforcing the Liesse accords against a redeemed Ubua (who was obviously redeemed/resurrected by Pilgrims lifeblood, and there may be a subplot of bards meddling to give the two of them plot armor against her)?
I'm thinking 1:1 on Ubua's redemption at pilgrims life, 1:3 on Catherine in the tower and 1:3 on bard plot armor for Cat and Ubua given an Ubua redemption (my money: your money) with a $5 limit
u/CouteauBleu [+9] We are the Empire. (12 hours later)
Meh. All that "Cat becomes the Empress" and "Akua is somehow redeemed" stuff is super trite and unimaginative, to be honest. I don't know why people keep bringing it up. I sure don't hope (or expect) for the story to go that way.
u/Empiricist_or_not [+1] Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm (23 days later)
Hey, I was looking back and saw this. I love the flair, and while I doubt I'd accept better than 1 in 5 odds on the Callow empress across the table from a redeemed sixth Akua enforcing the accords, with the recent Akua death pact with the one true heir that is Thief but the offer is still open and easy money (under $50 in liability for me please) if you are sure I'm wrong.
u/UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2 [+2] (10 hours later)
I wasn't quite sure how to read this part:
It didn’t matter that I was in charge of Callow, if I was no longer a villain. Sure, most redemption stories ended in death. Sacrifice to make up for previous sins and all that, passing the torch to someone that had the same heroism but less blood on their hands. That was just spice in the wine, though, since it got him all the benefits of Callow not longer heading down the cliff without having to deal the issues inherent in keeping me around after my bloody history. In a way, this could be considered an elegantly subtle assassination attempt.
On my first read, I thought the "spice in the wine" (ie, optional) was her death: a true alignment change to Good is enough of a prize, and it's a "subtle assassination attempt" because Cat-as-a-villain will cease to exist when she's replaced by Cat-as-a-hero. "If [Cat is] no longer a villain" she'll be a net positive to reality.
But I think it's more correct to read the "passing the torch to someone that had the same heroism" as the optional spice -- with the idea that, the redemption storyline is so powerful that Cat's alignment change will be necessarily accompanied by her ultimate sacrifice. The assassination attempt is simply lining up the fatal storyline.
In the second reading, Pilgrim's goal is a simple shantraj board move -- checkmate, kill the enemy King, zero sum -- and a straight line to that goal, but through highly abstract space. But in the first, well, the game is a lot more subtle, depending on how you read the Good vs Evil element -- I guess I can imagine a more potent angelic mindrape at the end of that road. But if Cat becomes a Good Queen with the same emphasis on practicality she has as a villain, does that necessarily mean an instant Bad End?
u/Nimelennar [+1] (17 hours later)
I think the "wine" is definitely that Callow is reclaimed for Good.
The "spice" seems to be that Cat is replaced by a less dubious hero, which, in GP's mind, probably requires her death. The two are pretty much equivalent.
Of course, Cat can get around that story by abducting rather than dying.