12 KiB
What exactly is munchkinry and the best examples of it?
-
Author: u/Ih8Otakus *
-
URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/8uo6xb/what_exactly_is_munchkinry_and_the_best_examples/
-
Score: 23
-
Created: 2018-06-28T22:53:21
Post:
I see the term thrown around alot and a google search doesn’t satisfy why the term came about.
Comments:
u/TempAccountIgnorePls [+54] (43 minutes later)
On this subreddit at least, it usually refers to exposing and/or abusing loopholes in a given set of rules, in creative and interesting ways
My personal favourite example is from Harry Potter and the Natural 20, wherein a character points out that if one follows the exact rules of D&D 3.5 to their logical conclusion, then any character wielding a tower shield is completely invisible (as they and their equipment cannot be seen through full cover, and the tower shield is part of their equipment).
u/icesharkk [+21] (2 hours later)
i love that one. and i love how bad the karmic recoil is for abusing that exploit ;p
u/Silver_Swift [+11] (10 hours later)
D&D 3.5 is particularly bad for how many hilarious rules dysfunctions it has. From drowning a person to prevent them from bleeding out, to peoples eyesight and hearing getting better with age (rather than worse) and it being literally impossible to see the moon at night.
u/erkelep [+5] (20 hours later)
http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_0
"unwritten but commonly understood rule that the game master can override published game rules for any reason"
The for a good game master, the reasons include "my players don't like the rule".
u/None [+15] (16 hours later)
Examples of munchkinry? There are plenty in Worm.
Imagine you have a superpower that allows you to control bugs and insects. Pretty damn creepy, and boring, right? However! If you have really good control, like the protagonist of that story, you can use that to great effect. For starters, and that's not spoiling a lot, she uses her creepy crawlies to fabricate a damn great costume that can stand up to knives and small arms fire, because spider silk is fucking badass.
Or if you're a guy whose touch can stop things and people in time. Great for crime fighting, just put a dude in time-out then slap handcuffs on his immobile form. Easy, right? But there's more! How about you start carrying a stack of paper, so you can build staircases wherever you go? Or bring an inflatable tent, giving you instant access to an inviolable shield! There are some neat tricks with ultra-thin wires later on, but that would be spoilers.
Seriously, I could rave for hours and hours on how cleverly superpowers are used in that book, and that's not even its best feature; an honor belonging to its many well-developed characters.
Just... don't be like me and put the book down after the second chapter because of the bullying, okay? It really doesn't last long at all, and while it's an important part of the main character and forms many of her traits, it isn't focussed on a lot.
u/thrawnca [+6] Carbon-based biped (20 hours later)
I put it down about halfway through. I tried, I really did, with all the recommendations it gets, but grimdark just isn't my preferred genre.
u/None [+9] (20 hours later)
Pity, but yea, the world is definitely dark and bleak as fuck. There are people who'll get pretty riled up when you call Worm Grimdark - that should be reserved for entirely crapsack universes with totally crapsack people like Warhammer 40k where there are no good guys - but I understand that it's still not easy to stomach.
If you read past Arc 8 and still didn't like it, chances are you won't like the rest either.
u/thrawnca [+5] Carbon-based biped (20 hours later)
Hmm, this guy defines it more broadly than that... anyway, Worm, as I understand it, which is an issue for me.
u/None [+15] (20 hours later)
So he literally defines it as "Gritty, adult, dark science fiction and fantasy."? That's pretty broad, and yea, under that definition Worm is grimdark - and so is practically any superhero movie besides Spiderman. At that point the word just... kinda loses its meaning.
Like, yea, Worm is a shithole of a world, and every superpowered human has a tragic backstory by default. But there are still decent people, in fact even most villains have some decency or less shitty traits, even some of the literal Nazis.Contrast that with WH40k, a universe where reality itself is close to coming apart at the seams due to Chaos gods, where a galaxy-devouring tide of bio-horror-monsters is about to overwhelm every major power, and where even the "good" guys are literal fascists that make North Korea look like a democratical first-world country.
No, these two aren't even in the same ballpark as far as shittyness is concerned. We shouldn't use the same word to describe both.
u/SimoneNonvelodico [+2] Dai-Gurren Brigade (2 days later)
so is practically any superhero movie besides Spiderman
How so? Almost the entire MCU is basically action-adventure romps with the occasional emotional moment whose consequences aren't mused about too much before going back to the heroes mindlessly quipping their way to victory.
Now if we're talking about the DC universe, or most of the pre-MCU superhero movies, like Singer's X-Men or the original Daredevil, then it's a different story.
u/None [+4] (3 days later)
The latest Avengers film saw half of the universe killed.
u/SimoneNonvelodico [+2] Dai-Gurren Brigade (3 days later)
Yeah, well, "almost".
u/keeper52 [+12] (an hour later)
A munchkin is someone who would take a bite out of their family member if it gave them a power-up.
u/Russelsteapot42 [+10] (9 minutes later)
This TVTropes article does a good job explaining what the term means. According to that article:
The name "munchkin" refers to the tendency of younger players to adopt this play style. Munchkins are, more than anything else, immature. They tend to grow out of it. An old, possibly apocryphal, story states that they were originally called "muchkins" on Use NET, due to their tendency to try and acquire as "much" as they possibly can
u/ArgentStonecutter [+8] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (56 minutes later)
"Munchkin" predates Usenet.
u/Russelsteapot42 [+1] (57 minutes later)
Source?
u/ArgentStonecutter [+26] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (59 minutes later)
Personal first hand knowledge. The gaming community I was involved with in the 70's used it.
Citation referencing "Munchkin" as a term of art in 1983:
The whole thing started around 1983 or so at a party at Pacificon at the Dunfey Hotel in San Mateo in which the idea came up of classifying the different styles of roleplaying. They came up with four different types, which are explained below. Special credit goes to Perry Caro, Chris Guthrie, Rick Heli, Robert Allen, and Ken Kaufman, to name a few.
The Real Man
The tough macho type who walks up to the attacking dragon and orders it to leave before he gets hurt.
The Real Roleplayer
The intelligent cunning guy who tricks the constable into letting you all out of prison.
The Loonie
The guy who will do anything for a cheap laugh, including casting a fireball at ground zero.
The Munchkin
Need we say more?
This term was well known at Sydney University in 1977-78 (personal experience - that's was when I was playing D&D there).
An even earlier reference:
I can point to its use in Alarums and Excursions back in 1976 if I look around long enough. There were young players even back then, and they often tended toward the malign forms of power gaming, and thus the connection. I'm sorry, just because you didn't see it until it got into more general usage doesn't mean it was new when you saw it. Memes take a while to spread.
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?270473-Define-quot-Power-Player-quot/page6
Re: Munchkins. It has been mentioned by a few [members] that there are far too many youngsters who, while they are the fantasy gamete of the ham, seem to delight in nothing more than making huge amounts of noise, getting in the way of collation [of the magazine] and generally making nuisances of themselves. [APA-Dud #23 (Lidofsky, 1979)]
u/Russelsteapot42 [+4] (an hour later)
Very interesting. Any insight into the reasoning for that name in particular? Just that such players were usually young, or was there more to it?
u/ArgentStonecutter [+14] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (an hour later)
Wizard of Oz. Small, annoying nuisances. Seriously, though, I don't recall ANYONE ever having to explain it.
u/Silver_Swift [+3] (11 hours later)
According to witionary it's originally coined in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (written in 1900), it initially meant tiny person or child. I don't know how old the RPG related definition is.
u/CCC_037 [+10] (8 hours later)
Munchkinry is taking maximal advantage of the rules as written, often in a way that was never intended by the writer.
Perhaps the most extreme example is Pun-Pun, a kobold with a viper familiar who uses an unexpected combination of monster abilities to obtain arbitrarily high values for all his character stats and every other number on his character sheet.
u/ajuc [+13] (15 minutes later)
In pen&paper RPG munchkin is a player that minmaxes his stats, abuses rules, fucks over other party members on loot and xp, and does everything he can to get more powerful, to the detriment of the story and fun. Basically treats rpg like it's a competive game.
u/RMcD94 [+6] (5 hours later)
A lot is two words
u/DCarrier [+3] (an hour later)
The Gamebreaking category on 1d4chan.org has a lot of good examples.
u/kaukamieli [+2] (9 hours later)
When the people in your party jump in the way of your arrows because getting damaged/critted gives them (good) XP in MERP, that's pretty much the worst case I've personally experienced.
u/None [-5] (7 minutes later)
I'm guessing it came from willy wonka and the chocolate factory.
You think you're going to visit the chocolate factory and instead some guy created an alternate universe with an entire race of people who make him candy (obviously the munchkins)
So munchkinry is when you break the rules in a manner similar to that.
u/None [+0] (25 minutes later)
Tv tropes says it's just an insult because younger d&d players are more likely to engage in cheaty tactics, that's kind of boring.
Edit: I stand by my first leap of logic as a fairly rational one given that:
The word munchkin did not previously exist prior to roald dahl making it up in willy wonka.
Willy Wonka is basically a max level d&d player breaking the world to suit his own needs.
Munchkin isn't really used as an insult for short people anymore, I last remember hearing it in the 90's. I feel old now.
Anyway, sorry for clogging up the thread, have a nice day!
u/ArgentStonecutter [+9] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (57 minutes later)
- Munchkin comes from "the Wizard of Oz". 2, 3. Depend on 1 therefore wrong.
u/None [+1] (16 hours later)
Oops. I'm apparently getting old haha.
I legit thought the oompa loompas were called munchkins for a bit
u/ArgentStonecutter [+1] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (16 hours later)
Maybe on set. :)