16 KiB
[WIP][FF][RST] - The Longest Day, Chapter 4: The One Where Twilight Sparkle Dies (HPMOR continuation/AU/x-over)
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Author: u/NanashiSaito *
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URL: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12825305/4/The-Longest-Day
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Score: 9
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Created: 2018-07-03T02:19:53
Post:
Comments:
u/NanashiSaito [+4] (a minute later)
Previous Chapters:
u/LupoCani [+2] (14 hours later)
Previous Chapters:
I edited the quoted links to go to the mobile site, so I can click on them in RiF, since I prefer that over regular browsers for reading.
u/NanashiSaito [+2] (15 hours later)
Oh, I didn't even realize that FF.net didn't auto-redirect to mobile. I'll make sure to include the mobile links for the next chapter.
u/NanashiSaito [+5] (4 minutes later)
It only took three-ish months and about five different rewrites, but Chapter 4 is finally done. Hopefully my work on Orders of Magnitude gives credibility when I say that I have the full story written out in my head, and it will be finished within the year.
Oh, by the way, spoiler alert: Twilight Sparkle dies.
u/Evan_Th [+4] Sunshine Regiment (2 hours later)
So glad to see this back!
Mind blown. You've taken on yourself a hard task here, but it does fit a realm where magic is so intricately knit into the world - and it also would go far toward explaining the similarities between Equestrian and Earth culture.
Well done; I'm eagerly awaiting more!
u/NanashiSaito [+3] (15 hours later)
Thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying it. The spoiler you're referencing was the original seed of this entire story, so you can definitely expect to see that more fully fleshed out.
u/None [+2] (5 hours later)
Hold on a wand flipping moment, HPMOR is getting a continuation from eliezer?
edit: clicked on link and profile, more confused now.
u/NanashiSaito [+4] (15 hours later)
Nope, not Eliezer, just a random meta-fanfiction author.
As hilarious as it would be if EY declared this as the canon sequel to HPMOR, it's definitely more of an AU than it is a sequle.
u/None [+2] (13 hours later)
OK, this just became very good. I love how you tied two settings together, and am feeling inspired by it.
u/NanashiSaito [+1] (15 hours later)
Glad you're enjoying it!
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+2] Champion of Justice and Reason (15 hours later)
Dumbledore felt a bit ooc in this chapter. It felt kind of forced. The limitation on the philosopher's stone felt like it was pulled out of thin air. If the philosopher's stone embodies all of transfiguration then there is no good reason for it to be limited to less than a few hundred transformations per day. It would make more sense if all transfigurations everywhere drew from the power of the stone, and whatever unused power is leftover would be from worlds with a very small or inefficient population of magic users. The available power should vary depending on how much magic is being used for transfiguration at any given time. And that should still leave a hell of a lot of power left. More than enough to grant immortality to everyone on Earth including muggles.
The explanation of "the stone is a threat to statute of secrecy" is good enough. Why not just go with that and leave out all the extra unnecessary stuff? Instead of constructing this unbelievably complicated hypothetical dystopian future in order to justify an unrealistically fair and just status quo. Also, your portraying someone like Dumbledore in this way doesn't make sense at all. It's flat out denying the cultural divide between wizards and muggles and between Harry and Dumbledore which was brought up in "Pretending to be Wise part 2". In doing so you've also eliminated at least a couple of Dumbledore's main character flaws/blind spots.
Your explanation should basically just boil down to "a muggleborn will break statute of secrecy by revealing the stone 's existence to muggles => a muggleborn will try to transfigure a bunch of subatomic particles. The end."
Combined with the existence of an afterlife in this story, the stakes are much lower than they were in the original HPMOR. it's much harder to care as much about whether Hermione is brought back to life or not because she's STILL ALIVE and has been this entire time, just transported to an an alternate plane of existence.
Sorry, but this story reads a LOT like pro-death apologism and social modesty trying to masquerade as transhumanism and rationality.
Your writing is good quality, but I think you might be trying to appeal to the wrong audience.
u/NanashiSaito [+3] (15 hours later)
It's a fair point about Dumbledore's characterization. I felt like the HPMOR-version of Dumbledore was played a bit too clueless for my liking, so in this universe, he's more savvy than Harry initially gives him credit for.
Also a fair criticism re: the lower stakes. Part of that was by necessity: there was suspense in the original HPMOR because you weren't actually sure if Harry would be able to bring back Hermione. But the canon ending explicitly introduces an afterlife into the universe. So any continuation/AU-fic either has to do some pretty serious ret-conning, or has to work within those limitations.
From a literary perspective, I'm hoping to build suspense via HOW Hermione gets resurrected, rather than WHETHER she gets resurrected. Whether I'll succeed at that, well, that's up to you as the reader.
That said, I did want to address two minor points directly:
- The limitation of the Stone was taken directly from the ending of HPMOR.
- If you do happen to stick around and read the work in its entirety, hopefully it will convince you that it is quite decidedly NOT pro-death.
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+2] Champion of Justice and Reason (15 hours later)
Okay so maybe I'm just getting a bit confused about the math involved here. I thought the limitation in canon HPMOR was higher because Harry explicitly states that it could be used for all muggles too as well as all sentient magical creatures. The canon reason he doesn't do this is not because the stone isn't capable of it, it's because it would require breaking the statute of secrecy, and then some muggleborn tries to transfigure subatomic particles and destroys the universe.
Also, Dumbledore wasn't unrealistically clueless, he had very particular realistic blindspots due to his upbringing. There are many MANY instances in real life of geniuses as brilliant as Dumbledore making exactly that kind of moronic mistake in reasoning, especially outside their area of expertise.
Canon HPMOR DID NOT have an afterlife. What are you talking about?
u/NanashiSaito [+3] (15 hours later)
Double checking the math real quick... In Ch 119 it says, "Experiment had showed that the Stone made one Transfiguration permanent every three minutes and fifty-four seconds". 3 minutes, 54 seconds = One use of the stone per 234 seconds. One day = 86,400 seconds. 86,000 / 234 ~= 367 uses of the stone per day.
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+1] Champion of Justice and Reason (15 hours later)
Gotcha. I see where the confusion is. Most wizards are not on the verge of dying. The stone would be used primarily for patients in the verge of death. That lowers the number of patients needing the stone treatment a lot.
u/NanashiSaito [+2] (15 hours later)
Interestingly, I actually wound up editing out a rather sizable chunk of dialog where Harry explicitly works through the math and Dumbledore (fairly ruthlessly) shoots him down. The gist of it was that the rate at which Muggles die every year is roughly 50,000 times higher than the Stone's capacity.
u/awesomeideas [+1] Dai stiho, cousin. (17 hours later)
You could just freeze all muggles, effectively pausing history, and then work through the backlog.
u/NanashiSaito [+1] (17 hours later)
:)
Incidentally, this is a passage from the most recent chapter that ended up on the cutting room floor during the editing process.
It all came back to these Elements, whatever they may have been, and the two battling figures who now took the form of two wolves, one black, and one white.
The black one spoke, wistfully. 'It's almost poetic. One hundred billion lives lost, one hundred billion stars."
The white wolf tore at the black, to no avail. "The rules, damnit. Remember the rules! Rule 34: There are gates you do not open, there are seals you do not breach!"
The black wolf deflected the blow. "You should know me better than that. Since when have I ever truly followed the rules? This is simply..."
The black wolf snapped its jaws shut, and the neverending chorus of a multitude of stars going nova at once rang across the blackness.
"Technique," it finished.
The Professor broke eye contact with her, and was breathing faster now. "Are the elements absolutely necessary? Do I need them to stop this darkness?"
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+1] Champion of Justice and Reason (15 hours later)
Also @NanashiSaito I added some more points to my original response because I accidentally pressed enter too early.
u/Evan_Th [+1] Sunshine Regiment (15 hours later)
Wow; I'd totally missed that huge limit. Thank you for pointing it out!
However, I still don't see where you're getting an afterlife in canon HPMOR. Do you mean Hermione's being brought back to life - because I don't think that necessarily counts?
u/NanashiSaito [+2] (15 hours later)
As for an afterlife in the original canon, maybe that's not the best word for it. But Hermione died, then she came back to life. Part of what I'm aiming to do with this story is provide a concrete mechanism for that resurrection.
To paraphrase from another comment reply (Reddit isn't great about grouping threads together): Maybe "afterlife" is not the best word for it. But Hermione died, then she came back to life. Part of what I'm aiming to do with this story is provide a concrete mechanism for that resurrection.
u/NanashiSaito [+2] (15 hours later)
I agree that Dumbledore wasn't unrealistically clueless. The cluelessness perfectly fit his characterization in HPMOR. With this story, I'm trying to explore a much darker side of Dumbledore, the side of Dumbledore who almost took over the world with Grindelwald for the "greater good", which has necessitated reframing some of Dumbledore's flaws from the original canon. Rather than being blissfully ignorant, he's painfully aware but chooses to act otherwise.
As for an afterlife in the original canon, maybe that's not the best word for it. But Hermione died, then she came back to life. Part of what I'm aiming to do with this story is provide a concrete mechanism for that resurrection.
Hopefully I'll achieve those aims, but I'll let you be the judge of that!
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+1] Champion of Justice and Reason (15 hours later)
There already WAS a concrete mechanism for it. Hermione's brain was preserved by the cooling charm, and the human mind/soul is one of the main functions of the human brain. It just needed to be defrosted and given life energy from Harry's patronus charm.
When Harry says he doesn't believe in souls, what that basically amounts to is that he doesn't believe in an afterlife or in peope being just some supernatural "essence" or "spark". But let's not forget that what laypeople know as the heart/soul and the mind, neuroscience just refers to as system 1 (automatic system) and system 2 (intentional system). They use the word mind to describe the whole thing, and that is very misleading to a layperson.
u/NanashiSaito [+1] (15 hours later)
:-D Hermione's body is still frozen and Transfigured in Harry's pocket...
In retrospect though, a better way to phrase it instead of "provide a concrete mechanism", would be, "to explore that mechanism". Ultimately (SPOILER ALERT but not really), he revives Hermione the same way that he does in Canon!HPMOR.
u/Evan_Th [+1] Sunshine Regiment (16 hours later)
I actually like this Dumbledore a lot more than the Dumbledore presented in HPMOR canon. However, as /u/Sailor_Vulcan says, HPMOR sufficiently explains Hermione's resurrection without requiring a soul. It's consistent with a soul existing, but you don't need that assumption.
Now, it seems to me that MLP canon (e.g. dreamwalking, the Realm of Ascension) points much more toward ponies having souls, so you probably made the best choice for this crossover. Still, this'll be a huge shock to Harry when he finds out!
u/NanashiSaito [+1] (16 hours later)
It's consistent with a soul existing, but you don't need that assumption.
Agreed. I mentioned this in a reply to /u/Sailor_Vulcan but a better way to say what I'm trying to do is exploring the mechanism of revival, moreso that creating a new one.
As for the question of "souls", I don't want to spoil things, but I'll say this: Hermione's memory isn't perfect, and Godel Escher Bach is a reaaaaaaly long book.
u/LupoCani [+2] (a day later)
Having just read the first chapter of this, I should probably ask, how much SD canon are you drawing on? I've read it far enough to recognise the quote about Tír inna n-Óc, but far from all of it, so I'm wary of spoilers.
u/NanashiSaito [+3] (a day later)
None. There are a few tips of the hat here and there, but nothing that is remotely spoilery.
u/Meriipu [+2] (4 years later)
So it has been nagging me a bit.
Was there a connection between the fault not being in the stars, and the machines making a "boom clap" noise (of all possible noises to make) shortly after?
In any case well done
u/NanashiSaito [+2] (4 years later)
Oh but of course! Well spotted!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AOPMlIIg_38
For those who don't get the reference, the song Boom Clap was featured in the movie "The Fault in our Stars". One of the lyrics, among others, goes "Boom, clap, the sound of my heart, the beat goes on and on and on and on"
Dumbledore says, "After all, the fault, dear Harry, it's not with our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings." This is a paraphrase of a famous quote from Julius Caesar where one character is bemoaning their fate, and another chastises him, basically saying, "The problem isn't with fate, it's that you're letting other people rule your life for you." Dumbledore is gently chastising Harry in the same way.
This oft-quoted passage about "the fault in our stars" served as the namesake of the movie with the same name. Immediately after, the machines in Dumbledore's office go "Boom. Clap." Then "Thump-bump. Thump-bump. Thump-bump", the sound of a heartbeat. Then "Beat. Beat. Beat," which is the beat going on and on and on and on.
u/Meriipu [+1] (4 years later)
and here I was trying to connect the thumping with the beats in next part of the song rather than the lyrics
wow
u/Meriipu [+1] (5 years later)
aaa I just received that reddit message - thankss
(though I do not have a too good idea what it means - maybe it is a year old and glitched out and did send before now)
but in any case it reminds me I have been craving more fanfic reading so I should really get back to my backlog of stuff to read (which includes among others significant digits)