17 KiB
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 103: Tests
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Author: u/Saffrin-chan *
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Score: 66
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Created: 2015-01-29T01:13:28
Post:
Comments:
u/Tholo [+28] *
Same Grade... marked him as his equal.
u/MadScientist14159 [+4] WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe.*
OH MY GOD, EY!
u/Lethalmud [+1] *
He must have done it on purpose..
u/ProfessorPhi [+1] *
If you check the hpmor thread, EY actually drops by to say he read a redditors prediction to that exactly and decided to fulfill it.
u/None [+18] *
You know, normally I really like troll-villains, but Lord Trolldemort here has murdered his own student and then given her a bad grade for it. I think that firmly qualifies as being a complete asshole. Is Quirrellmort just supposed to be kicking the dog now?
u/nohat [+7] *
It's a reasonable lesson. The grade isn't fair, but neither is life. The only thing you have to do to get an Acceptable is survive. It's Quirrel's version of heroic responsibility.
u/None [+2] *
It'd not reasonable at all. He killed her himself!
u/Nevereatcars [+8] The Greatest Is Behind*
Actually, we don't KNOW that he killed her. All we've observed was that a troll was let into Hogwarts and warded against sunlight and spells, both of which require that A wizard be involved; this wizard could be any character, even those suspected to not be wizards.
u/syzlack [+1] *
u/kaukamieli [+3] *
I think I've read too much other fanfics... Are we sure Trolldermort killed Hermione? :)
u/None [+3] *
Sure, as in, it's been confirmed in-text? No. But I'm pretty confident about this.
u/derefr [+1] *
Not one after the other; I'd call them the same event. The troll was an obstacle, and her death was a failure to overcome that obstacle. And, interesting, Quirrelmort seemingly disapproves of her failure. He's reminding me of GlaDOS, in a sense; his definition of "success" is something like "well on the way to killing me."
u/Transfuturist [+9] Carthago delenda est.*
GET HYPE VALENTINE'S DAY PLUS ONE 2014 PLUS ONE
u/libertarian_reddit [+5] *
How the hell are all the little fiddly bits gonna get closed up in 17 chapters? Unless these chapters are really long...
u/None [+17] *
According to the author, there are about 88k words in the remaining chapers. This is a full 11k more words than The Philosopher's Stone.
u/kaukamieli [+6] *
Ohh yeaaaaaaa... Hope it can live up to the hype. :D
u/None [+2] *
Let's hope they are, because now that the end is in sight, I don't want it to come.
u/Arandur [+3] *
I am going to be so sad.
u/alexanderwales [+10] Time flies like an arrow*
Man, Quirrell is such a dick. "Hur hur, I docked her points for getting killed by a troll." Even if he hadn't been the one that used the troll to kill her, that's like failing someone out of driver's ed because they died after getting hit by a drunk driver. And Harry's apparently totally fine with that.
u/NotUnusualYet [+27] *
He told her to leave Hogwarts and she didn't. Neville left and got an Outstanding, Hermione stayed and got a Troll.
u/gabbalis [+7] *
Oh. I get it now. That is in poor taste.
u/Teive [+3] *
No no no, she didn't get a troll. She would have gotten the lowest grade [allegedly troll], but Quirrell said it would be in bad taste
u/None [+4] *
She did get a Troll, though.
u/Rhamni [+2] Aspiring author*
It followed me home, can I keep it?
u/buckykat [+6] *
the lesson is for the remaining students. not even primarily for harry. life, and more especially battle magic, does not give As for effort.
u/alexanderwales [+4] Time flies like an arrow*
Literally everyone else in the class got (at least) an A for effort.
u/daydev [+6] *
Maybe is actually was "A for Alive"?
u/buckykat [+2] *
Everyone else got (at least) B for not getting themselves killed. That was the big test he was talking about.
u/alexanderwales [+1] Time flies like an arrow*
The Hogwarts grading system doesn't have a B? It goes OEAPDT (in descending order).
u/buckykat [+2] *
O -> A E -> B A -> C P -> D D -> F T -> super duper F I was using muggle equivalents. Everyone got at least the second highest letter grade.
u/Nevereatcars [+1] The Greatest Is Behind*
For the sake of those unfamiliar with Hogwarts' grading system: the letter grade of A is, counter-intuitively, the lowest passing grade.
u/None [+1] *
Putting forth an effort was all it took to exceed his expectations.
u/None [+4] *
I was surprised Harry wasn't fuming. That was honestly completely unnecessary, he could have made his point without being an asshole. Oh well, Voldemort wasn't known for being "a pretty nice guy."
u/scruiser [+2] CYOA*
I think the whole thing with him on the verge of dying got him enough slack. Without this I am pretty sure Harry would have called him on it.
u/None [+4] *
Honestly, at this point I consider MoR!Harry halfway possessed. He seems to have lost all ability to call Quirrell out on anything.
u/kaukamieli [+2] *
Except that the course is about protecting yourself and killing threats. She wasn't able to do that, so she failed.
u/ajuc [+1] *
She protected others. It's possible that the total utility increased because of that. This wasn't fair score, no matter the emotions.
u/kaukamieli [+9] *
I don't think dead care about their score. Also, Quirrel is not canon Dumbledore who gives people zillion points for being brave or friend or something. He is making some sort of point here methinks.
Dumbledore: The dark forest is strictly forbidden to all students. Except for detention. Where you will be forced to wander around when it's darkest and scariest. Doesn't that make so much sense. I'm so good at rules. Ten points to Dumbledore.
u/None [+1] *
The dead don't care about their score, but the question is: how many are dead?
u/alexanderwales [+10] Time flies like an arrow*
The dead don't care about their score, but if she ever gets returned to life she's going to be pissed.
u/ajuc [+11] *
This scene would be so great, now I'm persuaded Hermione will be back just for this scene :)
u/kaukamieli [+1] *
Are you saying her grade is somehow unfair for the other students?
u/None [+2] *
Yes: Hermione's death may have bought the survival of others. Passing them and failing her indicates only that the grader does not care about people's lives.
u/kaukamieli [+2] *
He caring if some random first-year lives is irrelevant. He taught them all survival skills. One could even argue he cares more about their lives than the ministry! How is it unfair to other students, that he gave Hermione a bad grade? It does not affect anything else, except teach them a point. If he has a system for grading, and he sticks to it and doesn't play favorites or anything, it's pretty damn fair. Also, do we really want to teach young kids to play hero? That it's ok to be the one who fights the trolls?
u/None [+2] *
Also, do we really want to teach young kids to play hero? That it's ok to be the one who fights the trolls? As opposed to everyone running away all the time? Yes. Yes, we do want to teach them to play hero. Duh. Most real problems can't be solved by running away, nor by "not being there".
u/kaukamieli [+3] *
I don't mean standing up and not letting the bully bully you. I mean like, stopping an armed robbery or shit at eleven years old.
u/ajuc [+2] *
They give everybody loaded guns at 10 (no need for avada kedavra if you can transmute stuff into air and back). It's a different culture. Our special attitude to kids is just artifact of culture, that clearly isn't shared by wizards (and wasn't shared by many historical cultures IRL - there are some nice quotes in Old Testament for example, teaching that parents should sacrifice kids if they can't both live, because kids won't live without parents anyway, and parents can have another kids - quite rational TBH).
u/kaukamieli [+2] *
They give everybody loaded guns at 10 (no need for avada kedavra if you can transmute stuff into air and back). True. Hermione blasted so many fireballs and Harry accidentally nuked Ireland in the movies. /s Did you notice how pathetic the offensive capabilities of the kids with wands are? Did you forget how stupid dangerous transmuting stuff into air and back is? Would you be happy to let your 11 year old kid go try stop an armed robbery?
u/ajuc [+1] *
I wouldn't be happy with half the thing they did in HP and not much less they did in HPMOR. The fact that transmuting stuff into air is stupidly dangerous was my whole point - they give kids wands, teach kids transmutation, and then say "don't do this, that and that, cause it's dangerous". It's like we gave loaded guns to every kid the first day in primary school, but told them "never shoot unsupervised". Good idea? Also - the fact that it is incredibly dangerous contradicts your statement that their offensive capabilities are pathethic. BTW Fireballs never were particulary good idea for offensive magic spell - canon HP got much better idea with avada kedavra, but evenwihtout it - why waste huge amounts of energy to create dangerous, highly visible and slow projectile, if you can just transmute someone's tooth into cyanide, cut his vein with small cutting hex, teleport him to deadly place, both teleportation on purpose, do 1000 things that are deadly and have way less property damage.
u/kaukamieli [+1] *
Also - the fact that it is incredibly dangerous contradicts your statement that their offensive capabilities are pathethic. Dangerous, in the way that it's way more probable to kill yourself and all others around you with it. It's not "offensive", it's darwin award worthy idiocy. Yes, I know fireball is kinda stupid. Did you miss the /s? It means sarcasm. Why not tell me something fancy about nukes too? why waste huge amounts of energy to create dangerous, highly visible and slow projectile Because it's magic. It doesn't even have to be slow. Magic in that universe doesn't care about how much energy you waste. if you can just transmute someone's tooth into cyanide I'm pretty sure you need to touch it with your wand, this is why the transmuting isn't good offense. Also, it's damn slow if you don't train very hard. That kid who just got his wand does not suddenly become proficient with it. They do not teleport. They do not know cutting hexes. They stick the wand through someone's eye socket if they want to kill someone with it.
u/ajuc [+1] *
By such grading Quirell is attempting to teach people "you should protect yourself and fuck the others". If people adjusted their behaviour because of this, and fewer people were ready to sacrifice to defend others - in my opinion total utility (and survivability of the group) would decrease. Also this is unfair mark, it was "defense against dark magic", not "self-defence against dark magic".
u/kaukamieli [+2] *
Do you believe for a second that this class will not do what they think is right because it's going to hurt their grades? I'd bet stuff like fear of getting eaten by a troll is a bit higher on that list.
Also this is unfair mark, it was "defense against dark magic", not "self-defence against dark magic". He, as a teacher, probably knows better than you what the classes are all about and grades accordingly.
u/ajuc [+2] *
He is also possesed by mass murderer Voldemort. Argument from authority works (not so well, but let's leave that for a while) only assuming good intentions.
u/kaukamieli [+1] *
I'm not saying he is a good guy. I'm saying he is pretty rational, wanted that job and is a damn good teacher. I don't think we have any reason to think he would grade unfairly. I think the argument that he wants to teach people to not be heroes fails completely, when we remember he tried to raise the whole nation against a singular threat. He is just cynical because he failed. You are apparently arguing from the point of view that his main identity is "mass murderer Voldemort" instead of that identity just having some utitily value for him in history. Being possessed is irrelevant as it looks obvious that the original owner of the body hasn't done anything the whole year and the possessor is in the complete control of the body. The teacher for all intents and purposes is Riddle. He just might be a bit more complex person than you apparently think. edit: I'm also not argumenting from authority there. My argument is that you have no way of knowing his real grading system. The author does. You are kinda saying "In my opinion this works like this, but grades don't reflect that and it's unfair", when you probably just don't know how it works. Also, we have gone pretty far from my point, which was that grading Hermione whatever is not unfair to anyone.
u/Muskwalker [+1] *
By such grading Quirell is attempting to teach people "you should protect yourself and fuck the others". Or, more charitably, the airplane safety lesson of "make sure to secure your own oxygen mask before helping others".
u/Nepene [+2] *
At least he didn't give her the lowest grade. " Passing grades Outstanding [O] (always continues to N.E.W.T.-level) Exceeds Expectations [E] (usually continues to N.E.W.T.-level) Acceptable [A] (rarely continues to N.E.W.T.-level) Failing grades Poor [P] (may repeat) Dreadful [D] Troll [T] "
u/sephlington [+1] *
She got a Troll in her final exam. I guess her previous work brought her grade up to a D.
u/Nepene [+3] *
As Quirrel noted, she deserved a troll but it would be in poor taste to award her that grade. Favouritism.
u/Iconochasm [+3] *
Time for a re-read, or two.
u/JackStargazer [+3] Primordial Apologist*
Hmm. Interesting. I may need to reread, but what has Neville done to get an Outstanding?
u/clawclawbite [+10] *
To quote Karate Kid "Best defense: don't be there". There are problems at Hogwarts, therefore to be safe, be someplace else.
u/Muskwalker [+1] *
He got a sufficient number of answers right on the test.
There's no indication that he's adjusted anyone's grades other than Hermione's (to keep her from getting a second troll) or probably Harry's (to mark him as his equal).
There's a parallel that Hermione died and failed and that Neville escaped and got the highest grade, but I think it's more likely that Q sees the lesson there and implies it to the class, rather than makes it happen in order to force the lesson to exist (which would be less clever on his part).
u/Esparno [+4] *
OMG OMG I CANT WAIT TILL FEB 15TH. It turns out that after months of being a hermit after my breakup I will finally get to play DnD with this woman my brother and his wife have been telling me about, AND HPMOR IS GOING TO UPDATE WITH THE NEW ARC. SO MUCH HYPE FOR THAT DAY! Everything's coming up Milhouse.
u/Nevereatcars [+2] The Greatest Is Behind*
Was going to comment "Everything's coming up Esparno," then noticed your last line.
u/Draconomial [+4] Sunshine Regiment*
STILL BEING WRITTEN!?!
u/Draconomial [+3] Sunshine Regiment*
Oh, not the chapter, the story.