14 KiB
[deleted by user]
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Author: u/None *
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URL:
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Score: 50
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Created: 2015-02-18T21:59:19
Post:
[removed]
Comments:
u/PeridexisErrant [+29] put aside fear for courage, and death for life*
the standard counter-Charm for a boggart is, of course, Fiendfyre. Silly me, I thought it was the killing curse...
u/formal_ai [+3] *
The killing curse only work on things with a brain. Maybe boggarts don't have one?
u/PeridexisErrant [+5] put aside fear for courage, and death for life*
Getting line of sight to a boggart for the AK might also be unwise, I'd guess.
u/dokh [+1] that which can be destroyed by the truth should be*
Unforgiveables aren't "standard."
u/PeridexisErrant [+15] put aside fear for courage, and death for life*
Neither is Fiendfyre!
u/dokh [+10] that which can be destroyed by the truth should be*
Now that's just ridiculous.
u/slutty_electron [+9] *
In his first lecture Quirrell contends that even for Lawful Good wizards, the Killing Curse should be a standard way of dealing with Dark creatures and wizards. Fiendfyre is a pretty insane standard method though, because it isn't controllable unless you are Lord Voldemort (or possibly Dumbles)
u/dokh [+10] that which can be destroyed by the truth should be*
Yes, but calling Fiendfyre standard is funny in context because it's what he's just been doing for everything else. AK doesn't have the same build-up, so it's not "standard"-as-a-joke, and it's also not actually standard.
u/alexanderwales [+8] Time flies like an arrow*
In his first lecture Quirrell contends that even for Lawful Good wizards, the Killing Curse should be a standard way of dealing with Dark creatures and wizards. ... which is pretty stupid considering the emotional requirement.
u/troffle [+3] *
Which requirement, the requirement for the "advanced" level of the Curse? If it's "standard", then that fits the "advanced" emotional requirement pretty well.
u/Roxolan [+1] Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager*
Also because it's (presumably) the ritual spell that permanently costs "a drop of blood". Not something you want to use every day, unless you've munchkinned a way out of that requirement (it's not entirely clear what that sacrifice means).
u/drageuth2 [+20] *
Those of you with outstanding disputes about the Defense Professor's secrets should bet now. Alright, here's mine: He snuck in the troll by transfiguring it and having it hidden on him when Dumbles hooked him into the wards. The troll could bypass some of the wards because it was technically also a defense professor. (Amazingly, the troll was only the third worst DADA professor in hogwarts history)
I'm confident enough to give that one 70% probability Anyone else got any predictions?
u/qznc [+4] Chaos Legion*
Could the troll enter Hogwarts really fast? Transfigure it into a bullet, shoot it into Hogwarts via sniper rifle, rematerialize. The troll was only outside the castle, if I remember correctly.
u/dwibby [+3] *
Hmm, perhaps he snuck it in as a graded exam.
u/PeridexisErrant [+2] put aside fear for courage, and death for life*
I'm confident enough to give that one 70% probability I'd give it no more than 10%, because I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work (the one who stands in this circle), the risks if something went wrong, and the fact that QQ/LV/DM/TR has far better options.
u/dokh [+3] that which can be destroyed by the truth should be*
Sounds like the two of you have a bet, with obvious schelling point of setting the odds on the bet at 3:2.
u/PeridexisErrant [+7] put aside fear for courage, and death for life*
Aside from my no-gambling-real-value policy (happy to, say, post a "you were right" message)... A schelling point is not particularly relevant to this; what we're after is the geometric mean (~one to four odds). In the absence of stakes, I'm happy just to read and see if I was right :)
u/alexanderwales [+11] Time flies like an arrow*
Alright, in that case I bet you one "You were right" post from me against four "You were right" posts from you.
u/PeridexisErrant [+8] put aside fear for courage, and death for life*
Deal. I'll spread comments out through a thread in relevant places too, which will make it about four times by work as well as wordcount.
u/traverseda [+3] With dread but cautious optimism*
I'll spread comments out through a thread in relevant places too That you will.
u/PeridexisErrant [+6] put aside fear for courage, and death for life*
- https://www.reddit.com/r/HPMOR/comments/2wl5ux/chapter_108/corzjrw
- https://www.reddit.com/r/HPMOR/comments/2wl5ux/chapter_108/corzol8
- https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2wl75t/harry_potter_and_the_methods_of_rationality/cos0dde
- https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2wcyi5/harry_potter_and_the_methods_of_rationality/cos0jmr
u/PeridexisErrant [+4] put aside fear for courage, and death for life*
This is the fourth: You were right. I want to grumble about the distinction between "standing in a circle" and "being a false tooth in a circle", or maybe the risks of inserting a transfigured object into your mouth (let alone an adult mountain troll)... but ultimately, you were right and I wasn't.
u/BT_Uytya [+6] The Laundry*
u/PeridexisErrant [+3] put aside fear for courage, and death for life*
Definitely an interesting post if we're designing a high stakes prediction market, but given that I've already offered a ratio and don't particularly care if this is a fair bet I might not go for calculus to redo the offer ;)
u/2-4601 [+1] *
I thought living things couldn't be Transfigured? Did Harry kill the unicorn?
u/drageuth2 [+4] *
Trolls are really hard to kill, and I think I remember some comment somewhere in HPMOR that their regeneration is done by a natural form of transfiguration; they're constantly turning into themselves. So if you overrode that natural transfiguration with your own magic, the troll would probably be perfectly fine once it completely turned back. Plus, transfiguration sickness might take time to set in. He didn't exactly need the troll to live too long.
u/None [+6] *
Harry did get Cedrc's help after all. The reason he hasn't thought about it, and the reason why we didn't see anything between him wondering what to do after receiving the letter and showing up at the 3rd floor corridor, and the reason he seems so uncharacteristically unprepared, is that he had Cedric obliviate himself of that information. Low confidence, but possible.
u/loonyphoenix [+1] *
But Cedric isn't a professor of Hogwarts, so he shouldn't be able to obliviate students (including himself). If it's even possible to obliviate oneself.
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est.*
I thought that obliviation was possible, but not without raising alarm.
u/CMEast [+8] *
I think the 'troll' is a hint. Eliezer plans for Voldemort to kill Harry and he'll then transfigure himself to look like Harry, and turn the original Harry-body into a Volde-corpse. Dumbledore will show up and think he's got the storybook ending he's been looking for. 'Harry' will rule magical Britain as Quirrel desired, with Hermione at his side. THAT is the final troll.
u/None [+2] *
It's a safe bet that Dumbles knows about the stone and it's powers. I don't think he would be fooled so easily. Also, QM is not going to attempt to kill Harry. I strongly suspect that his overall goals are not evil per se; its just he is willing to sacrifice pretty much anything in pursuit of those goals. Harry not being one of those things.
u/Hope2Learn [+3] *
There'd better a happy ending.
u/chaosmosis [+2] and with strange aeons, even death may die*
I wonder how Parseltongue reacts to recursive statements or statements which are neither true nor false?
u/Pluvialis [+8] Second Age Sauron*
I think the best way to describe the parseltongue restriction is that you can't say something you don't think is true. If you don't believe what you're about to say is a true statement, you'll find you can't say it, or it comes out how you believe without your intention. While you're speaking parseltongue, there's a magical effect on you that temporarily prevents you from wanting to say anything false. Whether you can, with practice, get around that to any degree I don't know. Harry has accidentally said things more frankly than he meant while speaking parseltongue, but perhaps if you're used to doing so you can still word things in a deceptive way without lying. I think that would take skill, though.
u/None [+5] *
Takes some practice, like in Wildbow's Pact.
u/dalr3th1n [+2] *
If there is such a way, I'm sure Quirrell would know it. I'd express some confidence that he is using Parseltongue to mislead Harry.
u/AtoningUnifex [+2] Dai-Gurren Brigade*
Commit to making a statement, then obliviate your memory of whatever information would make that statement a lie.
u/Sparkwitch [+3] *
The trouble, I'd guess, is believing them intensely enough to say them. I could say, for example, "this statement is false" because I can believe in a definition of false which includes things that are never going to be simply true.
u/puesyomero [+2] The Culture*
the parseltongue truth restriction seems like a great hurdle but i have a few ideas to work around it . He keeps asking if tom has already betrayed him, but is it really betrayal if you are acting on what you think is the best interest of the person despite what he thinks? moreover harry could doublethink himself into accepting they are both the same person thus one can not betray oneself. any guesses on what the real solution is?
u/qznc [+5] Chaos Legion*
Parseltongue is explicitly designed to prevent doublespeak. I think the only solution is speed: Betray and finish him fast enough. Getting the time turner for an unsupervised second would be enough for example. Although it makes for a crappy ending. At any point, Yudkowsky could just write "Suddenly Voldemort was shot from behind" and then explain how Harry got his time turner an hour later.
u/applemonkeyman [+1] *
when was it mentioned that most of the first years went through all the challenge rooms? I can't remember reading that
u/RolandsVaria [+3] *
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/70/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Rationality "Well," said Parvati, "has everyone already been through Dumbledore's third floor corridor? I mean everyone in Gryffindor has been through it by now -"
u/applemonkeyman [+1] *
Thanks
u/ajuc [+1] *
I wonder why Voldi always asks "have you betrayed me YET". It seems deliberate, and it's strange, it seems to me the more natural question "have you betrayed me" would be better. Maybe it's because he doesn't want to know if Harry betrayed him later in time, to avoid "DO NOT MESS WITH TIME" consequences? Maybe Harry could abuse that somehow? Or he knows that harry betrayed him later, and that harry could deduce it from information he had from future, and wants to make the test false-positive proof.
u/Farmerbob1 [+1] Level 1 author*
I have a question that I think is important in regards to Parseltongue speech. Does Harry differentiate mentally between Quirrell and Voldimort? It seems as if he might be doing so, but it also looks like that's being obfuscated by the way it's written. The author isn't specifically telling the reader that Harry is differentiating between the two, and it would seem very obvious to me that Harry really should be spending more time thinking about that. If he can choose in his mind which entity he is speaking to when he answers the betrayal question, he can tell Quirrell that he's not betraying him, while at the same time he is actively betraying Voldimort.
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est.*
He differentiates between the Professor and Voldemort because there is a dissociation of observed behavior, similar to the dissociation of behavior between Harry and his dark side. Harry seems to have dissolved the perception of dissociation with his dark side, though. Doublethink like that is essentially Occlumency, which is the sort of thing that Parseltongue is supposed to prevent. Not that that prevents you from potentially using your own boundedness, biases, and uncertain beliefs to answer with false certainty. Though the intentional use of those things would probably constitute betrayal.
u/Farmerbob1 [+1] Level 1 author*
Parseltongue would only prevent it if the correct questions are asked. If Harry is actually differentiating between Quirrell and Voldemort, then he's not betraying Quirrell. I just looked at this chapter, and in both cases where Harry is asked if he is betraying, the narration specifically indicates Harry seeing the question coming from Quirrell. Voldimort does indicate that he is a disembodied soul, when discussing the possibility of a dementor attack. When he does act, I expect Harry to explain to Voldimort, in Parseltongue. "I never betrayed the professor, I acted to free him from you." Or some such.
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est.*
I doubt it.