17 KiB
[FF] [hpmor] Unriddle the Riddles
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Author: u/melmonella Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you*
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URL: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yeRsGrlLGVW4Mq_K-xj3ilNBspyZS9PtCiRjHbM_res
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Score: 48
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Created: 2018-05-24T13:39:32
Post:
Comments:
u/scruiser [+16] CYOA*
Impressive story. I had thought the idea of cooperating with Voldemort and Voldemort agreeing to cooperate would stretch my suspension of disbelief too much, but you actually sold me on it perfectly, keeping both Tom Riddles in character and building up to their deal well with just minor shifts from the original story.
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+11] Champion of Justice and Reason*
I want to see what happens next. Please keep writing!
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+12] Champion of Justice and Reason*
Also, I think you should somehow work in the quote from taboo tradeoffs about how utilitarians were allowed to take common sense into account and how real life utilitarians dont actually rob banks to give to the poor. Then say something about how people aren't smarter than their ethics. Situations where its best to violate your deontological ethical injunctions in order to accomplish greater good are rare, while also being easy to find and hard to check. The exact opposite of P=nP? problems. One should be extremely skeptical and make absolutely sure that there is no other way before violating one's deontological ethical injunctions. And its almost always more likely that you've made a mistake then that it was really the optimal choice to break your ethics. It would have been a bit more believable if Harry hadn't been so easy to convince to do this.
u/melmonella [+7] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you*
And then Tom Riddles conquered the whole world, and nobody could stop them, for while one rationalist wizard is certainly overpowered, two of them working in concert is so unfair that even From Software doesn't think it's working as intended.
u/pleasedothenerdful [+2] *
Me too!
u/thrawnca [+4] Carbon-based biped*
I had thought the idea of cooperating with Voldemort and Voldemort agreeing to cooperate would stretch my suspension of disbelief too much, Coming from Voldemort, sure. But perhaps the real Tom Riddle is completely, utterly, irredeemably evil in an interestingly different fashion from what he was pretending with Voldemort.
u/DuplexFields [+3] New Lunar Republic*
An extremely powerful sociopath who is tired of stupid people, not an extremely powerful bigot who loves praise and adoration.
u/None [+12] *
[deleted]
u/melmonella [+11] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you*
Good catch. Fixed.
u/pku31 [+5] *
Also, you wrote balefire instead of fyndfire once or twice. Though I'm enough of a WOT fan to kinda prefer this anyway. Edit: also, pretty great story. Enjoyed it a lot.
u/melmonella [+4] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you*
balefire It is that way in the original. Blame Yudkovsky.
u/SkyTroupe [+6] *
Are you going to rewrite the end too? Because I just read to them stepping out to set their plans in motion and Im craving more.
u/WalterTFD [+5] *
My 'solution' when the original dilemma was posted was in the same direction. That is, the Unbreakable Vow fixes the trust problem, and should allow Harry's believable surrender to Voldemort. I was less hopeful re: their cooperation, I tended to believe that this was a "maybe the horse will learn to sing", where Harry just set himself to service and hoped that Voldemort's reign wouldn't be so bad, or that someone else would do something.
u/Ristridin1 [+4] *
I liked it. One point that I think should be expanded on is Voldemort accepting the premise that a prophecy has to be fulfilled. He's trying to kill people to stop the prophecy he heard, so at some level, he believes that prophecy can be averted (which is true, as Dumbledore mentions blocking other prophecies of destruction). So why does Voldemort so easily accept that this particular prophecy cannot be stopped? The answer 'it has already been partially fulfilled' seems a bit weak without any evidence that a prophecy has to be completely fulfilled or not at all.
u/melmonella [+2] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you*
Yeah, that came up when I was planning the story. Ultimately I decided that it would be best to leave that without justification, for two primary reasons.
- As far as I could find, there is no solid evidence for or against that in the original, other than the way the ending turned out. This means that I'd have to come up with evidence on the spot, which is a pretty bad writing move, and I think would have felt forced. This interpretation wasn't contradicted by anything, so I decided to let it pass.
- Intuitively, that seems like a more likely consequence of a mechanism that might be behind the prophecy. Like, say I told you "my world has prophecies" and asked you to come up with a set of models for this world, with their simplicity rated according to Solomonof Induction. The most probable model would probably be "prophecies can't be averted" - you receive a bit string from the future, and then no matter what you do (with the string or otherwise) laws of physics ensure it ends up in the same state as it started when I went back in time. And then whatever mechanism that sends information back in time just sends that string back. This model gets a Bayesian update to pretty much zero probability from Dumbledore saying he averted some prophecies, and from QQ thinking that it's possible to avert prophecies. The second most probable model, in my opinion, would be "Either the string gets sent back in time, or the negation of the string gets sent back in time" i.e. suppose that in the future the string would be 100110. Now either the past receives 011001(in which case prophecy was averted entirely in this timeline), or 100110 (in which case prophecy was fulfilled in this timeline). This is the second most simple algorithm for prophecies, and the one I went with. It also pretty much means that after you've observed and confirmed the first bit, you know how the other ones will end up. Finally, you have even more complicated algorithms for prophecy information, such as "any part of the string can be fulfilled or averted, with some complicated relation between them that ensures prophecy still tells you something instead of being effectively white noise". I don't think those are so improbable as to not be worth considering, but they are still less probable on priors.
[Weaker arguments start here]
- Counterfactually, if it was possible to fulfill a prophecy just in part, QQ would have known about it and said as much. Since he didn't say anything, it's clearly not possible.
- As I've pointed out above, justifications of this would have felt forced and would have simply drawn more attention to this weak point. Since most people didn't seem to notice it, I feel that my sight deception had been successful. But yeah, this is probably one of the weakest points of the fic, in my own authorial opinion. Very good catch.
u/vakusdrake [+3] *
See now I really want to read a sort of alt-universe version of significant digits based on this rewrite of the story.
u/absolute-black [+2] *
...Now I just wanna reread significant digits. Yay long weekends.
u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped*
Presumably the Quirrellisation plan will need to be Snapproved as a valid prophecy resolution before they can proceed...
u/Areign [+2] *
very cool approach
u/Cuz_Im_TFK [+2] *
That was very fun. Thanks for that.
u/thrawnca [+2] Carbon-based biped*
Are you in the market for typos?
u/melmonella [+2] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you*
Sure. I imagine I have quite a few there.
u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped*
There seem to be a lot of cases where the grammar resembles Parseltongue even after they're no longer speaking Parseltongue. Chapter 1 a fight with Headmaster/a fight with the Headmaster it can not/it cannot I hope Dumbledore hadn't/I hope Dumbledore hasn't What?, said Hufflepuff - the comma is unnecessary and a full stop is missing. hogwarts/Hogwarts actions? , said Ravenclaw - the comma is unnecessary and a full stop is missing. even by my standards, said Slytherin - missing full stop and line break Brittain/Britain answered Ravenclaw, - should be a full stop, not a comma Dark Rationalist isn't/A Dark Rationalist isn't deciding wherever/deciding whether gets a magical artifact/gets magical artifact suggesting?, said Slytherin, - the first comma is unnecessary and the second should be a full stop. why Professor is/why the Professor is worth more than lives/worth more than the lives What?, said Hufflepuff, - the first comma is unnecessary and the second should be a full stop. a consequentialist you claim to be/the consequentialist you claim to be Quirinous/Quirinus you can not/you cannot out?- said Slytherin - the first hyphen is unnecessary and the second should be a full stop. function"-"if - missing spaces Stone?" said Professor Quirrell - missing full stop. ask for safety of/ask for the safety of capital?, - the comma is unnecessary probably should, said Slytherin, - the second comma should be a full stop, and there shouldn't be a line break afterward. Natural death rate/The natural death rate that human brain fell into/that the human brain fell into Consequences of his choices/The consequences of his choices Just to think,/Just think, the oath Professor gave/the oath the Professor gave
u/melmonella [+2] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you*
Stone?" said Professor Quirrell - missing full stop. Man, that's especially embarrassing, given that I copied it over. Thanks!
u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped*
Chapter 2 what professor said/what the professor said ensure the death is/ensure that death is Chapter 3 I have preference/I have a preference distract headmaster/distract the headmaster sspeech",/sspeech," iss true"/iss true," scenario stone itself/scenario where the stone itself hummed "Perhaps/hummed, "Perhaps the murderer of hundreds possess/the murderer of hundreds, possess taken hostage the lives of hundreds of hostages - it would be better not to reuse the word "hostage". Maybe "hundreds of students"? wherever you seem evil/whether you seem evil chuckled "Well/chuckled, "Well under normal circumstances, "On my own/under normal circumstances. "On my own sounded amused "I suppose/sounded amused. "I suppose Maybe.", said Harry, "Severus/Maybe," said Harry. "Severus "Explain yourself, boy - this line is supposed to have been hissed, but it doesn't use italics or double 's'. "Patronus charm/"The Patronus charm Wizard has to/The wizard has to should one come." said/should one come," said Chapter 4 of prisoner's dilemma/of the prisoner's dilemma from Harry Voldemort had/from Harry, Voldemort had One horcux/One horcrux (yes, this is in the original - but it's still an error) wonderful inventive brain/wonderfully inventive brain chuckled "Are you/chuckled, "Are you forces himself to grin "Yes/forced himself to grin. "Yes chuckled "Perhaps./chuckled, "Perhaps. mirror-Professor/mirror; Professor accident",/accident," level "if/level, "if Harry said "Why/Harry said, "Why look very differently/look very different Harry shrugged "Your/Harry shrugged, "Your Oh and five,/Oh, and five, plenty successes/plenty of successes start of the year by using/start of the year, by using husbands never cheating is/husbands never cheating, is so easy to do people/so easy to do that people behavior/behaviour (HPMoR appears to use British English) behaviors/behaviours the thousands years/thousands of years Discrepancy between/The discrepancy between this "I assume/this, "I assume But human mind/But the human mind not as wholesome/not as unified hissed "Iss/hissed, "Iss mission to Azkaban has almost/mission to Azkaban almost you have not expected/you had not expected Prophecy seemed to/The prophecy seemed to professor Quirrell/Professor Quirrell
u/melmonella [+2] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you*
Nice! More typos!
u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped*
Chapter 5 if Mirror/if the Mirror (occurs multiple times) professor Quirrell/Professor Quirrell Quirrell?", said Harry, - the first comma is unnecessary and the second should be a full stop. Quirrel/Quirrell (occurs multiple times) smirked "This/smirked. "This Quil/Quill in english alphabet/in the English alphabet use International/use the International artefact/artifact (normally it seems to use UK spellings, but this chapter started with "artifact") said "Well/said, "Well "Yes"/"Yes." likely that Headmaster/likely that the Headmaster Barrier around/The barrier around force him to waste time/forcing him to waste time so world would/so the world would interfere", hissed Harry,/interfere," hissed Harry. use you as hostage/use you as a hostage Though unexpected can/Though the unexpected can Chapter 6 as Circle/as the Circle Final sacrifice/A final sacrifice he felt "I wouldn't/he felt. "I wouldn't chuckled "Are you/chuckled. "Are you hissed "What/hissed, "What Chapter 7 eye twitched "Sstop/eye twitched. "Sstop it's true meaning/its true meaning right?", said Harry./right?" said Harry. "Yess." hissed/"Yess," hissed , fulfillment of the prophecy must/, the fulfillment of the prophecy must universe?", Harry had/universe?" Harry had from himself, "I think/from himself. "I think similar.", Harry smiled,/similar." Harry smiled. , sun too relies/, the sun too relies it's output/its output harry/Harry and door of/and the door of opposite of the dead/opposite the dead alsso.",/alsso." Then three things/Then the three things a couple times/a couple of times "reasoning makes/"your reasoning makes Unbreakable Oath/Unbreakable Vow in return "Have/in return, "Have professor Quirrell/Professor Quirrell (occurs multiple times) Harry said "The/Harry said, "The Harry grimaced "I/Harry grimaced. "I rolled his eyes "Mister/rolled his eyes. "Mister I?", said Harry,/I?" said Harry. I can not/I cannot "Well, little reason/"Well, there is little reason prophecised/prophesied if universe itself/if the universe itself and said "Well/and said, "Well , sound as cold/, the sound as cold Harry shrugged "Sorry/Harry shrugged. "Sorry wherever you want to/whether you want to (occurs multiple times) Would be a shame/It would be a shame child",/child," catasstrophy/catasstrophe (occurs multiple times) then hissed "Even if/then hissed, "Even if Harry shrugged "I am/Harry shrugged. "I am "Vow doesn't/"The Vow doesn't sighed "That is/sighed. "That is shrugged "We should/shrugged. "We should Quirrel/Quirrell a couple different ways/a couple of different ways a couple interpretations/a couple of interpretations Dark Lord Voldemort was/The Dark Lord Voldemort was , Unbreakable Vow required/, an Unbreakable Vow required , one who was taking/, the one who was taking Sacrificed trust/The sacrificed trust , magic of the one/, the magic of the one Magic of the vow-binder/The magic of the vow-binder Mask of professor Quirrell/The mask of Professor Quirrell and drama could/and some drama could like I have mentioned/as I have mentioned Would immediately put us/This would immediately put us Brittain/Britain minutes have swiftly passed/minutes swiftly passed Dramatic return/The dramatic return
u/melmonella [+3] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you*
Figures, the chapter I wrote at 4 am has the most typos. Fixed. Many thanks for your work!
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity*
I really, really enjoyed this. Eagerly awaiting more!
u/SansFinalGuardian [+2] *
Great story, horrible grammar. I have an urge to go through it all and correct everything.
u/melmonella [+3] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you*
Thank you! If you do go through it, I'll be very thankful.
u/callmesalticidae [+2] writes worldbuilding books*
This is everything I had hoped the original would be. It’s fantastic, I love it, thank you for writing it.