scrape_r_rational/data/cache/2ed2c2.md

[MK] The Two Year Emperor, Chapter 58: "The Heart of a Landguard"

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• u/alexanderwales:

  Huh. So if that's how *Mindscrape* works, Ice Afi One could use *Mindscrape* on Ice Afi Two in order to spread the knowledge - so removing it from the leader might not be enough. Though I suppose that there are good reasons not to spread the knowledge too far, and letting another creature learn all of your secrets is terrible, even if they're an exact clone of you. Also also, *Mindscrape* gives a lot of fodder for secrets that you can junk - gather up a thousand people, *Mindscrape* them, then have all the ice clones *Mindscrape* each other, then have them each dump a thousand people's worth of secrets into the ritual.
  
  And I just now realized that *Mindscrape* is probably a renamed [*Mindrape*](http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/mindrape--165/), which is one of the most terrifying spells in existence.
  

  • u/eaglejarl:

    All of this is correct. There's a quibble about knowledge possessed by a thousand people and a ton of IAs not being secrets, which means that it has a lot less oomph but yes, that works. 
    
    And yes, Mindscrape is a bowlderized version of Mindrape. I wanted something a bit more family friendly, since my general rule is "it could be shown on prime time."
    

    • u/alexanderwales:

      I get why you changed the name, but it was always one of my favorite spell names specifically because it conjures up such ugly feelings that so perfectly match what the spell actually does. It's a brutal, ugly, vile spell, with a name that quite suits it. But it's probably not in fitting with the story you want to tell to have that word be used.
      
      I'm curious whether any of the mages that can learn/cast 9th level spells would be alright with knowing and using *Mindscrape*. For all that I just said about it being brutal, vile, and ugly, it's also got some of the most utility of any of the mental magic spells out there. You can ensure absolute loyalty, you can rapidly share information, you can change alignment without using the Helm (and presumably forcing a much more difficult save), you can do *so many things*. I'm not sure who would willingly submit to it, but it's an incredible spell. If *Mind Blank* weren't continuously applied to all of the most important people, it would be even better than save-or-die, since instead of killing your opponent you turn him into your instant ally.
      
      (I once ran a D&D campaign which featured a villain who was famous for the use of *Mindrape* and other mental magics as a sort of Moriarty man-behind-the-man-behind-the-man role, and have a deep affection for the spell.)
      

      • u/eaglejarl:

        > It's a brutal, ugly, vile spell, with a name that quite suits it. But it's probably not in fitting with the story you want to tell to have that word be used.
        
        I dunno about you, but to me 'Mindscrape' brings to mind images of a jagged rock being dragged across someone's wet brain.  Pretty vile, ugly, and brutal to me.  :)
        
        Minor spoiler:  I'm actually planning to have some of the new Archmagi pick up Mindscrape.
        
        And yes, it's less of a save-or-die and more or a save-or-lose-and-become-the-enemy-of-all-you-stand-for.
        

• u/eaglejarl:

  Chapter drop.
  
  Note:  This is the closest I've come to missing deadline since the story started. (It's 11pm on Saturday where I am.)  I've been driving most of the week, which prevented me from getting any writing done, and my muse was remarkably useless yesterday, meaning that I had to write basically all of this today.  Note to self:  don't do that.
  

• u/tilkau:

  Hmm. Is there some reason to believe that Jake will lose that knowledge also, when Icefi sacrifices it? That would certainly be a good reason for Thomas' behaviour.
  

  • u/ulyssessword:

    No.  Loki told everyone else that he was playing both sides just fine, but Jake was the only one that couldn't know it.
    

• u/ulyssessword:

  How are you calculating XP?  I plugged 34 CR 10 monsters vs. an ECL 1 character [here](http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/), and got 367,200 XP, while level 13 only takes 91,000 XP.
  

  • u/eaglejarl:

    (I'm away from my books at the moment so roll wih me if I have the specific numbers wrong -- the point still stands.)
    
    I've always been a bit confused by the XP charts. It says that it requires (e.g.) 1000 XP to reach level 2 and 3000 XP to reach level 3. I've had some people tell me that these numbers are lifetime totals (meaning that you become level 3 when you earn your 3000th XP). I've had other people tell me that these are level increments (meaning that you become level 3 when you have earned 1000+3000=4000 XP). I'm not sure who is right, but I am ruling that the numbers are level increments.
    
    Assuming that these are level increments, it takes 360,000 XP to reach level 13. (If I remember the number right -- three hundred something anyway.)
    
    If I'm wrong and those are only lifetime totals, then just assume there were fewer Fire Giants on the platform. Oh and, next next time? We take our newly minted 13th level folk and create a bunch of Fomorian Queens for them to drop. Voila: 17th level Archmagi. The only reason I didn't go straight there is because the XP charts won't handle encounters between 1st level chars and 18h level threats, and the needed number of fire giants was prohibitive.
    

    • u/None:

      [deleted]
      

      • u/eaglejarl:

        > Just for future reference, those are indeed lifetime totals [...] Page 22 of the PHB has all this, unfortunately it is not part of the srd so I cant link to it. 
        
        Well, taking advantage of fair use, I'm going to quote one sentence:
        
        "This column on Table 3–2 shows the experience point total needed to attain a given character level—that is, the total of all the character’s level in classes."
        
        I would prefer that this be a lifetime total -- it would mean that the FLEA would need a less ridiculous number of giants while still giving as good or better results -- but I'm still having trouble with the text.  "The XP total to attain a given character level" -- that could mean either lifetime total or increment.  Is there anything you can point to that clarifies it?  If so, I would happily retcon it to work like that, but I'd prefer not to unless I was sure.
        
        I read the info in the Epic Handbook and you're right -- it lets you figure out the award for any challenge.  Three problems though:
        
        * It gives the number, but doesn't speak to the total / increment question
        * 2YE explicitly disregards all epic content, so this isn't part of the setting.  I wouldn't feel too badly about saying "this isn't epic, it's just an explanation of the system so it's in", but...
        * 2YE works off of RAW, and the info in the EHB only has RAW about levels 21 and up.  The formulas can trivially be adapted to figure out what a 1st level vs 17 CR award would be, but that's RAI, not RAW.
        

• u/Chronophilia:

  That's not where I thought he was going with the worms.
  
  I'd thought he was going to polymorph them into humans, to get more worshippers for Team Life. Rob Deadboy of his share of the prayers by sheer numbers. On close inspection of Polymorph Other, that doesn't work - Polymorph Other doesn't affect the mind, so they'd be humans with an Int of 1. Too low to be sentient.
  
  But they become sentient when their Int hits 3, so all we need is a mass-produced way to give +2 to intelligence. (Suggestions welcome.) Polymorph Other might even be superfluous; depends whether non-humans can contribute towards the god's totals. If they do, Deadboy's massive army of undead must exist for *precisely this reason*.
  
  I can't find any information on what a worm's Wisdom and Charisma scores are - I'm only guessing that their Int is 1 because animal intelligence is always 1 or 2 and worms are not particularly bright animals.
  
  Oh, I know this isn't a very Lawful Good approach to the war, and in fact is utterly horrifying on many levels. Still, if nothing else you could sacrifice the plan to Herun.
  

  • u/eaglejarl:

    > But they become sentient when their Int hits 3, so all we need is a mass-produced way to give +2 to intelligence. (Suggestions welcome.) 
    
    Simple.  Get a +2 Headband of Intellect, give it to the first guy and have him sacrifice everything, then drop it into the hands of the next guy.  Lather, rinse, repeat, commoner railgun.
    
    
    > Polymorph Other might even be superfluous; depends whether non-humans can contribute towards the god's totals. If they do, Deadboy's massive army of undead must exist for precisely this reason.
    
    Anything sentient enough to make a sacrifice or offer a prayer can help.  As you surmise, that's why Neklos is so incredibly powerful right now -- he converted a billion people (plus an unknown but large number of Underdark dwellers) into undead who worship him.  He's not curbstomping the other gods, but that's only because they are working together to keep him at bay.
    

    • u/Chronophilia:

      It might have been a mistake to have Loki give all the gods nicknames. "Deadboy" is a lot more memorable to me than "Neklos", and now that's the only way I'll remember him.
      

      • u/eaglejarl:

        Heh.  No problem, it's pretty much the only way the characters are going to refer to him from now on.  The 'True God' and 'Arros' will probably get a little more respect, but not all the time.
        

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