scrape_r_rational/data/cache/2ftyt8.md

[BST] What would a Rational!Fullmetal Alchemist look like? (Spoilers?)

Post:

Looking at it, the first thing that comes to mind is the absurd power level of alchemy; could you transmute nanotechnology? Does alchemy ignore thermodynamics or does it draw power from somewhere? Why does Truth place such a hugh value on human 'souls'?

I'm particularly fascinated by the idea of a Rational!Brotherhood, with the potential for some truly non-human homunculi.

Comments:

• u/alexanderwales:

  It depends on how much "do what I mean" is built into alchemy. Given what I remember of the show, there's quite a bit, but I still don't think that you'd be able to just make things that you have no knowledge of (like nanotechnology). Alchemy also seems to completely violate the laws of thermodynamics, replacing them with the law of equivalent exchange (and presumably others). It does seem like it would be much more useful in a non-combat role than a combat role, if only because people are squishy and don't handle being struck by lightning all that well. So either they're in a support role (transmuting hunks of metal into guns for example), heavy artillery (throwing fireballs, or using alchemy to launch heavy rocks), or pretty much anything else but being on the front lines.
  
  I can't remember what it exactly takes to be an alchemist, but I think that if I were the state, I would be outfitting as many people as possible with pre-made alchemy circles that could be activated with only the bare minimum of training.
  
  I think one of my favorite aspects of the show was that all the alchemists had their own little "knack" that they were good at exploiting - I think I would ramp that aspect up as much as possible.
  
  Overall though, I don't think that the lore is particularly ripe for being given the rational treatment - the show does a pretty good job of being clever with the powers as they're presented.
  

  • u/DaystarEld:

    >Overall though, I don't think that the lore is particularly ripe for being given the rational treatment - the show does a pretty good job of being clever with the powers as they're presented.
    
    As a straight up rationalist adaptation, agreed.  While it's not impossible to do a rationalist fiction off less irrational stories, it certainly leaves less room for "improvement" the better the original is. 
    
    That said, a Rational!Edward could have a much bigger goal if they're also a transhumanist.  
    
    After accepting the failure of trying to revive his mother, maybe he would persist in trying to use alchemy to end death, through biological alchemy that reversed aging.  He would also probably also be able to justify the use of a Philosopher's Stone that's already been made by someone else, rather than reject it for being "evil." The whole question of "what is a soul" is extremely important in a world where you can turn souls into fuel for magic.
    

  • u/None:

    Combat alchemy is presented as absurdly powerful, at least as practised by some people. Judging by the Ishval scenes with Mustang and Kimbley, I would put the destructive power of at least certain alchemic techniques on par with or higher than that of nuclear weapons. (Mustang in particular is shown singlehandedly literally levelling multiple cities with apparent ease.) That's not a level of destructive capability you can get from a tank.
    
    As for premade circles, it is stated that the knowledge of the transmutation is the primary element required. It would not be possible for an alchemist to utilise a circle they couldn't create themselves. The inability to transfer alchemic artifacts is what leads to the specialisation. You can't just have a doctor draw a circle for you and know a bit about alchemy to heal someone; you have to be an alchemist and a doctor yourself.
    
    Another thing to consider is that the laws of physics are quite different. While we know the chemical elements are the same, chemistry obviously doesn't work the same as in our universe, and it is quite questionable whether something like nanotechnology would even be physically plausible in the FMA universe.
    
    I don't think trying to make a universe based on an overlay of our physical laws will work very well at all really, and that an entirely new set of laws is required.
    

• u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer:

  Somewhere, someone even half-smart compiles a simple ontology involving alchemy, and immediately goes, "wait, how is **any of this** 'equivalent'?"
  
  Everything immediately breaks when they look at it too closely. And then they are killed by Envy.
  
  But seriously.
  
  >could you transmute nanotechnology?
  
  Why would anyone imagine making it in the first place? This is a vaguely industrial revolution tech-level world. Why would someone imagine that there is "room at the bottom" if they don't even know about anything smaller than atoms?
  
  >Does alchemy ignore thermodynamics or does it draw power from somewhere?
  
  The show already answers the question about thermodynamics and power draw. Sort of. That means you'd need to make up a better answer, one that doesn't involve magic. Literally magic.
  
  >Why does Truth place such a hugh value on human 'souls'?
  
  Maybe Truth's just wrong. Or misunderstood. Or lying. Or talking down to people. This seems like an odd point to bring up.
  
  >I'm particularly fascinated by the idea of a Rational!Brotherhood, with the potential for some truly non-human homunculi.
  
  Why would something literally called a "little man" be non-human? Made from humans...
  
  ---
  
  It seems like you want a new story, using the FMA rules for something else entirely. I'd be down for that.
  
  How about this:
  
  Modern day setting, protagonist discovers one of Father's books on alchemy. Rules work like FMA, so rational answers need to be discovered from clues about how it appears to work. Standard expanding power fantasy and such, until alien beings with incredible powers bust in the door and start doing things that seem to violate even the new rules they've been working out for alchemy.
  
  The new enemies (and why are they enemies?) have inhuman names, which represent mental and emotional attributes in their alien species. Think about what "Lust" would mean to a worker ant, for example. Or "Envy" to a tree. These are linked to real world issues for the aliens they are "homunculi" of, but won't be the same as for humans. And might include things that wouldn't matter as much to homosapians.
  
  Our protagonist discovers all the names of the aliens after attempting a human transmutation to save a loved one from dying. They fail, and in the process, they also lose one of their mental faculties with bizarre consequences. This all happens because of a strange alien sitting in front of what looks a lot like a Stargate:SG1 gate. The alien claims to be god. Our protagonist forgets this, which makes things difficult when they wake up without the ability to <x>. But they now have all the names of their foes, and a close English translation of what the words mean...which they got through automatic writing while suffering brain damage. *Questionable*.
  
  Lots of fights, lots of ontological arguments with readers, all while the protagonist has to protect themselves with alchemy and also compensate for their lost mental ability. This goes on until the protagonist figures out what powers might be possessed by the aliens coming after them and how to counter them by taking advantage of their ultra-focused and limited competencies. The protagonist eventually finds the real villain, the power source, and the reason the aliens are after them in the climactic showdown on Mars. All of which could be worked out by the reader from the start, but it was just obscured by all the fancy lights and fights.
  
  The world as we know it does not survive this story. *Clearly*.
  

  • u/Subrosian_Smithy:

    Wow. You've given me a lot to think about.
    

• u/oddmeta:

  [Spoilers]
  
  This bit pertains to the first iteration of the series, and is mostly informational. The movie [Conqueror of Shamballa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullmetal_Alchemist_the_Movie:_Conqueror_of_Shamballa) that bookended the first series constructed a dual reality setup; with our reality on one side of the gate and the reality of Fullmetal Alchemist on the other side. They laid out that the entire functional premise of alchemy worked because the FMA reality was constantly drawing energy from the "souls" (of the dead, if I'm remembering correctly) in our reality. This, naturally, had all kinds of ramifications for various characters being morally horrified, etc.
  
  [/Spoilers]
  

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