scrape_r_rational/data/cache/3pcvm3.md

[RT] Chapter 16 of Lighting Up the Dark, a rationalist Naruto fanfic

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• u/Jiro_T:

  I am reminded of an episode of Merlin where Arthur "passes a test" by showing that he is willing to sacrifice himself by choosing to take both cups (one of which is poisoned) in order to save Merlin.
  
  My reaction to this was "wait a minute, Arthur is a potential king, and is extremely valuable to the country.  Merlin is at this point a nobody.  I could just as easily argue that Arthur is making the *wrong* decision by deciding to die honorably rather than sacrifice his honor to benefit his country (by not killing off a king).
  
  If Naruto is exceptional, he could legitimately claim that he'd be better off saving himself rather than saving multiple bystanders.  And he has every reason to believe that he is exceptional; he knows he's very intelligent and he has the fox inside him.
  
  (Of course, deciding to save himself instead of other people is very prone to motivated reasoning, but it's not inherently motivated reasoning under all circumstances to believe that you are more valuable to the village than other people.)
  
  Naruto could also reason that sacrificing himself is harmful to his team and that since he is supposed to be especially devoted to his team, he should save himself.  In fact, if the loss of efficiency from making his team get another member up to speed is large enough to statistically cause the team to fail to save enough people, it may be a better idea, period.
  
  (Also, you'd think Naruto would figure out that this is a genjutsu, even though it's harder for him to figure it out than for us.  Since sacrificing himself to take out the threat would prove that he has the traits that ninjas would obviously test for, having it turn up at just the right time is unlikely if real but likely in a simulation.  So he's in a simulation.  I am reminded of a sci-fi story where a character is given a lecture about how unlikely it is for a meteor to hit the spaceship, but what to do if it happens.  All of a sudden it's announced that a meteor has hit the ship.  He stays in his seat on the grounds that if having a meteor hit the ship is unlikely, having it hit the ship right when they would test people's knowledge of meteors is doubly unlikely.)
  

  • u/Velorien:

    Ooh, detailed analysis.
    
    In regard to the decision, I think there's an identity component as well as a utilitarian component. I think a lot of people, while preferring survival over dying, would also have a strong aversion to the idea of living the rest of their lives with a self-identification as someone who sacrifices lots of innocents in order to preserve their own life. 
    
    I see Naruto thinking "I am superior to these people in both moral and practical terms", but I don't see him thinking "I should let dozens of people die because my life is worth more than theirs", even if it's an objectively correct decision.
    
    As for the genjutsu element, bear in mind that he doesn't know in advance that self-sacrifice will actually be necessary. He is bad both at losing and at modelling the possibility of loss against an unknown opponent. And in the moment where he is forced to decide between self-sacrifice and survival, he is in no position to analyse the situation on that abstract a level.
    
    If anything, perhaps he should have seen through the genjutsu out of genre savviness, but that's a superpower that kicks in only erratically.
    

    • u/Jiro_T:

      >I think a lot of people, while preferring survival over dying, would also have a strong aversion to the idea of living the rest of their lives with a self-identification as someone who sacrifices lots of innocents in order to preserve their own life. 
      
      Yet in standard Naruto, Itachi killed his whole clan on Konoha orders.  Being a killer of your own clan has got to be at least as damaging for your self-identification, and it was still expected of him.
      
      >And in the moment where he is forced to decide between self-sacrifice and survival, he is in no position to analyse the situation on that abstract a level.
      
      True, but while that makes Naruto's decision *a* right decision (since it's the best that can be expected from him given the circumstances), it doesn't make that decision the *only right one*.  Does the grading guide for the test say "oh, also pass anyone who refuses to sacrifice themselves but gives a rational reason why that refusal helps the village"?  I guess that's possible, since we haven't seen the grading process yet, but that would make this fanfic very unusual compared to pretty much every piece of media that contains such a test.
      
      Although it would be interesting to see someone refuse to sacrifice themselves, based on rationality, and fail the test simply because they are smarter than the test writer, something that happens to children in real life too.  Incidentally, this also shows the folly of having a test that you can fail based on a single question; that's pretty much always a bad idea because someone's performance on that test can be affected by unpredictable factors.
      
      (Then we could have Naruto thinking that having to sacrifice himself is not a test because if it was a test, it's obviously a poorly designed one....)
      

      • u/Velorien:

        > Yet in standard Naruto, Itachi killed his whole clan on Konoha orders. Being a killer of your own clan has got to be at least as damaging for your self-identification, and it was still expected of him.
        
        I wouldn't consider Itachi representative of anything, since he is a prodigy in every conceivable way including ability, duty and ethics (his one weak point being the truly idiotic way he handled leaving Sasuke). Likewise, IIRC the orders were mostly Danzō's work, and there's no reason to believe that Danzō cared what would become of Itachi long-term.
        
        >Although it would be interesting to see someone refuse to sacrifice themselves, based on rationality, and fail the test simply because they are smarter than the test writer, something that happens to children in real life too.
        
        I think this is most likely what would happen. As in a regular army, I imagine that a low-rank soldier acting against orders because they thought they knew better would be condemned even if they were right.
        
        I suppose that in a *smart* army, they would be punished, and then quietly promoted at a later date.
        

        • u/Jiro_T:

          >I imagine that a low-rank soldier acting against orders because they thought they knew better would be condemned even if they were right.
          
          If the test consisted of a superior saying "sacrifice yourself", refusing to do so would be disobeying orders.  But if the test consists of "sacrifice yourself when the circumstances are right" and the test writer mistakenly believed that the circumstances were right, but you know otherwise, refusing to sacrifice yourself would be *following* orders, not disobeying them.  
          
          If your superior tells you "shoot the guy in the front", because he has bad vision and mistakes a tree for a soldier, shooting the actual front guy is not disobeying orders.
          

          • u/Velorien:

            I guess it comes down to how much latitude you have to second-guess your superior, which to a large extent is a matter of how great the information disparity between you and them is. Your superior may well know a lot that you don't, such as the fact that the tree really *is* an enemy soldier, and they may want you to obey orders and attack before the enemy realises you've seen through their Transformation Technique.
            

            • u/Jiro_T:

              I think that's fighting the hypothetical.  Assume that the superior just told the soldier that order and didn't give him any more information, not even nonverbal information such as pointing.
              
              The key idea is that the order *inherently* contains a demand for observation and interpretation.  Not only is it not disobeying orders, it isn't second-guessing your superior either.  You're not thinking "my superior asked for X, but if he had known what I had known he wouldn't have asked for X" .  You're doing exactly what was asked of you.
              
              And the test is supposed to test that the ninjas will sacrifice themselves when appropriate.  The test writers are not telling them what situations are appropriate; it's something they require the test takers to figure out for themselves.   A test-taker who correctly figures out that sacrifice is not appropriate therefore has passed the test.  It's stupid to pass someone who sacrifices himself when inappropriate and fail someone who only sacrifices himself when appropriate.
              
              (If a ninja is told to deliver 2+2 shurikens, and the person asking believes that 2+2=5, but doesn't indicate that belief in any way, is the ninja second-guessng his superior if he only delivers 4?)
              

  • u/FuguofAnotherWorld:

    Well, I must be dumber than Naruto because I certainly didn't think of the possibility of genjutsu.
    

  • u/JackStargazer:

    > Also, you'd think Naruto would figure out that this is a genjutsu, even though it's harder for him to figure it out than for us.
    
    Even thinking from within the universe, the moment they mentioned the Clone Dispersal Technique, a perfect counter to the thing everyone in the know understands is Naruto's main way of Taking the Third Option or being creative which had heretofore never been mentioned and was even mentioned directly to him, it was obvious that this was a Genjutsu.
    

• u/blazinghand:

  This was a really good last chapter to the story! It was good that everyone got a little bit of closure before they all heroically died.
  

  • u/None:

    This. Considering this is a [RT] fanfic, we should get a nice epilogue now.
    
    And maybe, why not, a "sequel" for those not happy with how this ended.
    

• u/AugSphere:

  Poor indoctrinated children, throwing their lives away for the sake of utterly inconsequential NPCs like that. On the other hand, it's probably the right answer exam-wise.
  

  • u/Velorien:

    With that said, if a military has an actual *policy* of sacrificing civilian lives in order to preserve those of soldiers, then one has to ask why it's a military at all, as opposed to an autonomous combat-focused collective like Akatsuki.
    

    • u/AugSphere:

      Obviously it's called the military because that gives it legitimacy. What it is, in point of fact, is a band of murder-hobos who don't actually own any allegiance to the people whose interests they nominally protect. At least that's what I've always got from Naruto universe. Perhaps it's different in this fic, although I can't quite see how it can be. 
      
      Civilians are producers of food and breeding stock for ninjas, nothing more. Any "will of fire" feel-goods were always limited to fellow ninjas.
      

      • u/Velorien:

        There are a couple of problems with this perspective. First, the ninja of any given country are its most powerful military force, and can assassinate any civilian leader as easy as breathing. It would be much easier for them to function as a military dictatorship that controls the entire country and its resources, with the same bureaucratic toolset as the one currently used by the Daimyo.
        
        Second, if the military exists to exploit the civilian population, they are terribly inefficient about it. They obtain money from "ninja missions" and the civilian government rather than direct taxation. They limit their resource and recruitment pool to the contents of their one village. They rely on independent civilian traders to ensure that the village has the non-military resources they want, including any luxuries they may wish to enjoy during their time off. They submit to oversight from an authority that isn't competent in their area of activity (see Sand having to revise their entire recruitment and training policy after the Wind Country Daimyo cuts their budget). They do not benefit from any greater rights than the civilian populace, not even shopping discounts. And so on.
        

        • u/Sophronius:

          >It would be much easier for them to function as a military dictatorship that controls the entire country and its resources, with the same bureaucratic toolset as the one currently used by the Daimyo.
          
          Why would this be easier than letting some civilian handle all of that bureaucratic mess for them? As long as the Daimyo *knows* that they will be assassinated if they mess up, everything works out perfectly for the ninja. They get paid just for existing! Oh sure, gennin have to do worthless missions for PR purposes/to build character, but they're only gennin.
          
          Of course this breaks down for the Wind Daimyo, who indeed would have been assassinated instantly... unless, of course, he's powerful in his own right. This is a rationalist fiction. Why are you assuming that the ability to perform landscape redecoration makes you more powerful than the most capable politician in your entire country? You can fix this by saying that the Daimyo has his own personal ninja army that is loyal to him and him alone, which is not too far from canon given the existence of the Land of Fire's 12 ninja daimyo bodyguard (who even tried to stage a coup against the Hokage if I recall)
          
          No, the *real* problem with Naruto canon is the fact that a few individuals have the power to destroy entire armies. There isn't even any point in having armies if that is the case. But if you even things out a little, everything else can be made to work.
          

          • u/Velorien:

            >Why would this be easier than letting some civilian handle all of that bureaucratic mess for them?
            
            Two reasons. First, the Daimyo have different priorities. They may choose policies that indirectly go against the interests of the ninja (say, heavy investment in vocational training that ends up reducing the number of potential new ninja). And attempting to enforce fine-grained policy control just with the threat of assassination is inconvenient to say the least.
            
            Second, the Daimyo may not be competent. We know the Wind Country one isn't, and frankly none of the others strike me as cunning, resourceful leaders either (the Fire one just makes me think of a placid turkey).
            
            With direct control over the government, ninja can choose to appoint competent proxies who serve their needs without the need for threats.
            
            There's also the "full resources" thing. As it stands, ninja get what the Daimyo gives them, plus what they earn from missions or obtain through their own activities. A military dictatorship would be in control of the country's full resources and able to reallocate them however it wishes.
            
            >Why are you assuming that the ability to perform landscape redecoration makes you more powerful than the most capable politician in your entire country?
            
            Again, it's a big assumption that the Daimyo must be "the most capable". Rationalist fiction does not preclude things like hereditary rulership in a medieval society. If it did, you'd end up having to redesign human civilisation from the ground up to remove all the daft bits.
            
            Even if he were, capability only goes so far. The Daimyo has no leverage over a group capable of landscape redecoration - he has nothing they cannot take, he has no allies that can threaten them, and if he uses his position to deny them legitimacy, they will simply turn around and remove him in a formal coup.
            
            The only option that springs to mind is a large, powerful standing army loyal to the Daimyo alone. But even that won't work in a realistic setting. The ninja are naturals at spying, assassination and guerrilla warfare, and they operate from within a vast forest with a base hidden enough to avoid detection from *other ninja*. They can outmanoeuvre any conventional army, and cause it to disintegrate by eliminating the chain of command.
            
            Edit: hm, some more text just appeared in your comment.
            
            >You can fix this by saying that the Daimyo has his own personal ninja army that is loyal to him and him alone, which is not too far from canon given the existence of the Land of Fire's 12 ninja daimyo bodyguard (who even tried to stage a coup against the Hokage if I recall)
            
            This, of course, runs into its own problems. For example, where does he recruit his elite ninja bodyguard? Is it from the village he needs protection from? Or worse, from another country's ninja village? Are they trained outside any village, and if so, how can they hope to stand up to professionals with generations of expertise behind them?
            

            • u/Sophronius:

              >Two reasons. First, the Daimyo have different priorities. They may choose policies that indirectly go against the interests of the ninja (say, heavy investment in vocational training that ends up reducing the number of potential new ninja). And attempting to enforce fine-grained policy control just with the threat of assassination is inconvenient to say the least.
              
              It's not optimal, sure, but neither is having to do it all yourself. If you had to choose between becoming the dictator of a country yourself, or being paid to lead the military, which would you prefer? I think the latter would be a nicer job, myself. It makes sense if you think of the Daimyo as a figurehead, and given the fact that Danzo at least mind-controlls the Daimyo with Koto-amatsukami, that's not an unfair assumption.
              
              Yes, the wind daimyo and people being incompetent is a valid counter argument. But in a rationalist fic there's nothing stopping you from just boosting people's rationality until this is no longer a problem.
              
              >This, of course, runs into its own problems. For example, where does he recruit his elite ninja bodyguard? Is it from the village he needs protection from? Or worse, from another country's ninja village? Are they trained outside any village, and if so, how can they hope to stand up to professionals with generations of expertise behind them?
              
              Primarily from their own ninja village, I would think. But why would this be an issue? The Hokage also depends on his own ninja to not kill him. 
              
              I feel like you're arguing this by looking at the Naruto world and pointing out all the things that are nonsensical, while forgetting that you can do the exact same thing with the real world. In the US, congress is run by incredibly insane/incompetent people with an approval rating of approximately 2 (two people, that is), and yet they maintain power over the military despite not having any military ability themselves. Any ninja from the Naruto world would find that completely unbelievable if they read about it in a story. They would throw away the book in disgust and mock the author for writing something so patently unrealistic.
              

              • u/eaglejarl:

                >  In the US, congress is run by incredibly insane/incompetent people with an approval rating of approximately 2 (two people, that is),
                
                Hey!  That's unfair.  According to polls, the average US Congressperson has an approval rating of anywhere from 5 to 9.
                

                • u/Sophronius:

                  And yet, only 16% approve of congress as a whole, and a whopping 75% express clear disapproval. I'm guessing this is a case of motivated reasoning: Nobody wants to admit that their own congressperson is terrible (in the same way that people defend their own crappy little band), yet everyone acknowledges that the end result is awful (in the same way that people admit crappy little bands in general are crap).
                  
                  To be fair, a lot of politicians acknowledge that the political system is crap, for example the money-driven aspect of it, but not enough to actually change things (nobody is willing to actually stop begging for money).
                  

              • u/Velorien:

                I think one or both of us are losing track of what we're disagreeing about here. My original point, vis-a-vis AugSphere, was that the Leaf military was a real military, because if it were a "bunch of murder-hobos" or a de facto dictatorship, it would be a very poor one. Are we still arguing about whether the Leaf military is plausibly a self-serving organisation that exerts indirect control over the government to its selfish benefit, or is it something else?
                
                >Primarily from their own ninja village, I would think. But why would this be an issue? The Hokage also depends on his own ninja to not kill him. 
                
                Because the Hokage is trusting his Leaf ninja to serve the interests of Leaf. Under your theory, the Daimyo is trusting his Leaf ninja *not* to serve the interests of Leaf, at least where they clash with his own.
                
                >I feel like you're arguing this by looking at the Naruto world and pointing out all the things that are nonsensical, while forgetting that you can do the exact same thing with the real world.
                
                This is the point that makes me think we're talking at cross-purposes. I've been giving examples why, based on Narutoverse canon, it is implausible that the ninja are completely self-serving and yet do not choose to assert direct control over the Fire Country government, and thus why we have to assume that Leaf is in fact a loyal military. It's not an exercise in pointing out the nonsensical elements of the Narutoverse for its own sake, but rather of elements that become nonsensical under the conditions of a certain hypothesis being true.
                
                In regard to the Congress example, well, yes, there are nonsensical things aplenty in the real world. But we can't merely say "there is nonsense in the real world, therefore we should be free to accept a hypothesis that results in nonsense in the Narutoverse".
                

                • u/Sophronius:

                  You're right, we've drifted a bit, also because I think I was partially arguing against AugSphere in the end there. I'll summarize my understanding of the matter instead of arguing:
                  
                  The Leaf in canon is for a great deal self-centered and self-serving, with a good deal of corruption (danzo etc.) and with the Daimyo being portrayed as weak and mostly inconsequential. The ninja villagers literally never act on behalf of civilians unless they're being paid to do it, so I can't call them a military. On the other hand, the Leaf is also portrayed as mostly idealistic and wanting to protect civilians (much like they would want to protect children), but this is much less the case for other countries.
                  

          • u/eaglejarl:

            > No, the real problem with Naruto canon is the fact that a few individuals have the power to destroy entire armies
            
            As someone who has been writing a rationalist Naruto fanfic for a while now, let me say that the above is *far* from being the major problem with Naruto. :>
            

            • u/Sophronius:

              Ok, I'll bite. What are the most major problems? Not saying there aren't any, just curious.
              

        • u/AugSphere:

          I agree with all of that. But the fact that Naruto canon doesn't make sense is nothing new. 
          
          >It would be much easier for them to function as a military dictatorship that controls the entire country and its resources, with the same bureaucratic toolset as the one currently used by the Daimyo.
          
          That's what would make sense. Some kind of feudal system, where the top of the hierarchy consists of super-powered warlords, perhaps. 
          
          > Second, if the military exists to exploit the civilian population, they are terribly inefficient about it. They obtain money from "ninja missions" and the civilian government rather than direct taxation.
          
          Kishimoto can't into rational world-building. He wanted battle-wizards for hire and that's what we have. Doesn't change the fact that there is absolutely no leverage to compel ninja to work for the benefit of civilians.
          
          >Sand having to revise their entire recruitment and training policy after the Wind Country Daimyo cuts their budget.
          
          How in the world does a Daimyo impose their will on people who can reshape the landscape with minimal trouble and assassinate him equally as easily?
          

          • u/Velorien:

            It gets worse when you realise that before the village era, clans apparently lived independently, and did not mix with ordinary people. So there's no historical precedent for them serving civilians either.
            
            Here's one possibility: Hashirama wanted a village system to stop the clans fighting. The best way to stop the clans fighting is to give them a common goal, ideally a common goal that isn't a common enemy (since that just means you're fighting *different* clans). Serving civilians is a common goal, and one which can absorb as much by way of resources and attention as you have to throw at it.
            
            Perhaps the true purpose of the Kage is to preserve and further strengthen this tradition in order to maintain peace between the clans. Thus in Leaf you have Hashirama, who began the whole thing. Tobirama became Second Hokage pretty much by default, but shared Hashirama's goals. He then chose the (loosely speaking) pacifist Hiruzen over the warmonger Danzō. Hiruzen then chose the pacifist Minato. It may be argued that along with strength, dedication to the village ideal is the prime requirement according to which a Kage chooses their successor.
            
            Of course, then this noble plan runs into human nature, plus the generations of feuding and hatred haven't gone anywhere, and you get three Great Ninja Wars. But if you look at it as a conscious choice of moral ideals over practicality, it might just be believable.
            

            • u/AugSphere:

              That's a classic race to the bottom, though, isn't it? The first village (or a coalition of clans within a village) to permanently stop with the bullshit missions and dedicate all the resources to war preparations is going to out-compete everyone else. Then someone else will follow suit, lest they be annihilated, and so on.
              
              The system is not stable in the least, and, given that we're talking about ninjas here, someone would have jumped down the slippery slope long ago. The threat of mutual annihilation in Elemental Nations is supposed to be realised by each village having a biju on hand. And yet that doesn't stop world wars from happening every generation. Some measly tradition of waiting for civilians to come begging for protection, instead of simply taxing them, is not going to stop these people.
              
              >But if you look at it as a conscious choice of moral ideals over practicality, it might just be believable.
              
              We're talking about the same people, who raise child soldiers to die following the orders of the village as a matter of course, right? Conscious choice of moral ideals over practicality seems right up these guys' alley.
              

              • u/Velorien:

                I am fully aware that I'm fighting a losing battle here, but...
                
                The first village to stop with the bullshit missions and dedicate all resources to war preparations is going to be seen as both a heretic and a threat by all the other villages, which would have every reason to band together to destroy it. It was emphasised back when Hashirama was advocating for the village system that no village can withstand a coalition of the others.
                
                In regard to system stability, it is worth acknowledging the significant role of belief in impeding optimisation. How long did it take for humanity to twig that 50% of its population could be employed in the full range of industry and research, rather than confined to housekeeping or "women's jobs"?
                
                >We're talking about the same people, who raise child soldiers to die following the orders of the village as a matter of course, right? Conscious choice of moral ideals over practicality seems right up these guys' alley.
                
                Here you're judging them according to 21st century Western morality. For the majority of human history, children were expected to do the same jobs as adults as and when their physical and mental development allowed. In many societies (primitive ones are the most obvious example), being ready to fight for the tribe would be a central rite of passage, and would thus be undertaken by children in order to be acknowledged as adults. In the Narutoverse, children are fully capable of serving as effective ninja at twelve, and it probably seems strange to deny them the chance to use their skills for the good of the village.
                

                • u/AugSphere:

                  Fair enough. The system as depicted still strains my suspension of disbelief. Surely this would not extend so far as to allow some Daimyo to bully a ninja village to an extent that it would seek a war against a long time ally just to alleviate the economic damage?
                  

                  • u/Velorien:

                    Yeah, that's ridiculous. Any universe that follows that bit of canon would have to come up with a more rational explanation.
                    
                    For example, perhaps the whole thing was set up by enemies of the Sand-Leaf alliance, who had Sand impoverished to the point where pillaging an easily accessible source of wealth was the only option - either seizing the opportunity to declare war on Leaf while the latter was vulnerable during the exam, or declaring war on their own country and becoming an enclave in hostile territory.
                    

• u/None:

  I'm curious, what's the justification for the "classic ninja running posture" in this particular AU? I think the real reasoning was that it's just easier to draw and animate, so it's a bit out of place in this otherwise rationalish world.
  
  Also, great chapter, though it's very obviously a genjutsu, come on.
  

  • u/Velorien:

    I'm going to go with "because you can immediately project extra chakra from your hands to get a burst of speed in an emergency." But it's probably more tradition than optimisation.
    

    • u/None:

      There's no way this isn't going to end with a flying Naruto
      

• u/Sceptically:

  First phase of the exam, passed.
  

• u/LordSwedish:

  If this wasn't such a good fic I would actually be okay if it just ended here.
  

• u/mavant:

  Hahahah and then they all died, the end.
  

  • u/Velorien:

    Shhh, don't spoil the ending for everyone else. There are still quite a few characters left to kill first.
    

    • u/Nevereatcars:

      I'm very excited for you to kill Smart!Lee.
      

      • u/None:

        Oh My God Smart!Lee Oh My God *Smart!Lee*
        
        drooling
        

• u/diraniola:

  So how are you handwaving the Sharingan, explicitly activated here, not seeing through the genjutsu?
  

  • u/Nevereatcars:

    Descartes' Demon. His sharingan isn't active. He tried to activate it, but couldn't because he was in a genjutsu, but the genjutsu altered itself so that it would look like the normal world would to somebody with an active sharingan.
    

  • u/Velorien:

    Also, quoth the Naruto wiki, the Sharingan sees through genjutsu by detecting subtle irregularities in chakra flow. At the points when his Sharingan was active, Sasuke was variously enjoying one-point focus on Itachi, listening to Sakura's argument on why he should not do the thing he most wants to do in the world, and being about to sacrifice himself. None of these lend themselves to noticing subtle details of the external environment.
    
    The other thing is that this sounds like an ability you need to learn how to use, rather than merely "oh, you're an Uchiha? Have free genjutsu immunity". How do you know what a subtle irregularity in chakra flow looks like? If you notice it, how do you know what it signifies?
    

• u/Elhokar:

  Am I right in understanding that this is gonna be updated weeklyish from now on?
  

  • u/Velorien:

    I have a small backlog of chapters, and more that I am slowly in the process of editing and then inflicting on my beta readers. While the supply lasts, I will be posting them weeklyish, as you say. If/when the posting catches up with the backlog, I will have to slow down again as I write more.
    

    • u/None:

      I'm really sorry that your life went astray this former year.
      
      Is it morally wrong to wish someone happiness and luck because you want them to finish the beautiful and awesome rational HPMoR-inspired Naruto fanfiction they are writing?
      

      • u/Velorien:

        I don't think it's ever morally wrong to wish someone happiness and luck, except perhaps if they are an evil overlord whose lack of happiness and luck is the only thing preventing them from taking over the world.
        
        Um, now I've written that, I realise it actually describes me quite closely, so maybe you *are* being morally wrong after all.
        

• u/Sophronius:

  Hey, really cool that you're writing again! And nice to see the plot picking up its pace again.
  
  Though, if you would like some constructive criticism for the previous chapter especially: You could work on setting the scene/mood etc. more during scenes. Right now I'm getting the feeling that the story jumps a bit too much between scenes, making it feel disjointed. Esp. w.r.t. character viewpoints shifting (You should never show what's in anyone's head other than the viewpoint character, and it should always be clear who the viewpoint character is.) Just my two cents. 
  
  Anyway, I'm very interested in seeing where this is headed. Can you believe that the thought that all of this was a test didn't even cross my mind until after reading the comments? I must be tired...
  

• u/eaglejarl:

  Before reading any of the comments, I'm putting my prediction-stake in the ground. Last chapter I was 60% confident that this was a test, now I'm up to 80%. Evidence:
  
  * A member of Akatsuki...
  * was injured to the point of death but not actually dead, yet no one was pursuing him...
  * ignored a group of genin and civilians on first glance...
  * when he finally did decide to attack, it was with a slow attack that would have been useless in a ninja battle. 
  
  This is a test. I'm just surprised they're bringing the civilians in on it, but I guess it makes a good drill.
  

  • u/Nevereatcars:

    Those aren't civilians. They're shadow clones of Anko.
    
    o.O
    

    • u/eaglejarl:

      Can Anko do the shadow clone?  [...googles...]  Only in the video game?!  That doesn't count!  ;>
      
      (NB:  [Check the wiki](http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Clone_Technique) and search for 'Anko')
      

      • u/Nevereatcars:

        Naruto taught it to her in an alternate universe, and then she traveled to this universe. But in order to travel across dimensions she had to sacrifice all her chakra. That's why her shadow clones are civilians.
        

        • u/Velorien:

          And if you fail the test, all of them will suddenly dispel their disguises, leaving you surrounded by dozens of Ankos with no escape.
          

          • u/Nevereatcars:

            But they'll be shadow clones of a civilian Anko. Not much of a threat.
            

            • u/Velorien:

              Physically, no. But there is such a thing as sanity loss, and the average ninja doesn't have that many sanity points to begin with.
              

• u/None:

  I dropped this story at chapter 4 at the bath spying scene. For a supposedly rational fanfic the one in a thousand chance? of dispelling a transformation seemed way too much of a coincidence. Why was he naked anyways when the transformation was dispelled anyways? It never worked like that in the original story, it makes no sense. The entire scene was just comedic relief fluff.
  
  My question is does it get better? Can anyone tell me if things get more serious and rational in the coming chapters. If your going to call your story rational it better be rational and not filled with comedic nonsense like this. You've already primed me for a rational story, which increases my expectations and as such I'm harder on the story when it betrays the expectations I've set. I'd love to know that this is a one time thing so I can continue reading.
  

  • u/Sophronius:

    I don't remember the bathing scene, but the silliness remains throughout. I share your preference for rationalist fiction that takes itself more seriously: It's just harder to have rational solutions to problems when the story is not designed to be realistic, but an author writes what he wills. 
    
    (One story that does this really well is The Waves Arisen, which manages to almost seamlessly transition from silly to exciting to emotional and back again. I recommend it to you if you haven't read it already.)
    

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