scrape_r_rational/data/cache/4pan4e.md

Looking for rational fiction with major darkness and sadness.

Post:

[removed]

Comments:

• u/Roxolan:

  It's not exactly obscure at this point, but *A Song of Ice and Fire* does qualify.
  

  • u/wtfbbc:

    My thought as well. The books are far more rational than the show.
    

    • u/Rhamni:

      I imagine that's *mostly* because they can't squeeze everything in there without making it too long.
      

• u/Escapement:

  How about Unsong? With the Broadcast chapter, it *undoubtedly* qualifies.
  
  (I am partially recommending it because it amuses me to have it recommended in both the with and without major darkness and sadness sections, based on a fatefully timed chapter release)
  

  • u/2BR02B:

    Oh god. Seconded strongly. My skin is crawling right now.
    

• u/Magodo:

  The first thing that comes to mind is The Metropolitan Man by alexanderwales although it's quite short.  
  
  Don't know if it's rational but The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect is very dark and has great squicky violence.
  

• u/tadrinth:

  [Sailor Nothing](http://stefangagne.com/sailornothing/) is a deconstruction of the magical girl genre.
  

  • u/appropriate-username:

    +1
    
    I'd say this story is worm-levels of darkness and is well written. The magical girl deconstruction that the genre deserved, not what it got with the irrational pile of crap that's Madoka. (Though I should say as a disclaimer that pretty much the only things I've seen in the genre are this story and Madoka)
    

• u/Rhamni:

  Berserk seems a nice fit. No stupidity, and the baddies are flawed in the normal ways that humans are flawed, albeit often dialled up.
  
  It has very little angst. The main character, who receives more than most protagonists' share of darkness, responds by growing harder and colder. The world is also very rich in reasons to despair. It's got Lovecraftian levels of demonic entities that have the power to harm mankind, but unlike Lovecraft the demons of Berserk care very much indeed about humanity, and think we are delicious. The series is made all the better, I think, because it's not *always* dark. Something like 25% of it is pretty standard heartwarming comradery and positive character development and adventures as you grow to love the main cast. Then the darkness sets in, and you think to yourself, "they wouldn't *actually* go through with this," and then they do.
  
  It's available in cheaply animated anime or in well drawn manga. I recommend the manga, but the anime has the advantage of not spoiling the end of the best arc before it even begins. Both are easily obtainable online.
  

  • u/greycoats:

    If I remember correctly, someone mentioned to skip the first chapter in the manga to avoid the spoiler. Will that help to enjoy the manga?
    

    • u/Rhamni:

      You'd have to start with the last chapter in volume three, but yes, this is what I would recommend. Just... go backwards from the end of the book, because I'm fairly sure the page *right* before the start of the Golden Age arc will tell you a giant spoiler in giant letters, even if you just glance at it. It's like if you opened up Lord of the Rings and there was a prologue with Frodo on the elven ship, talking with Gandalf about how Gollum fell into Mount Doom with the ring, and isn't it nice how Aragorn was able to reclaim his kingdom? *Why would you put that there?*
      

• u/TennisMaster2:

  [CORDYCEPS: Too clever for their own good](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj7wsaP57zNAhVOgx4KHazCARkQFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Farchiveofourown.org%2Fworks%2F6178036%2Fchapters%2F14154868&usg=AFQjCNG7fsjQVHkZyQPywtLmpkU2pddbMg) isn't rational, but is a cautionary tale of some major points of reasoning failure.  /u/Luminarium's [To Board the Ark](https://deef9b8a9157971cbe8589263f3e4c129dbf26f6.googledrive.com/host/0B-uYtW6inz_aSXU4WEp1Z2NCZnM/index.html) is pretty well-done rational horror.  [This](https://www.fimfiction.net/story/42409/the-writing-on-the-wall) is a My Little Pony fanfic you might like that was previously posted here.
  

• u/confettibin:

  If you're looking for a good FiO spinoff, [Always Say No](http://www.fimfiction.net/story/91933/friendship-is-optimal-always-say-no) is one of my favorites. It deals with the concept in a less detached way than the original, and many of the implied consequences are directly addressed. Honestly, I think it's a more entertaining read overall.
  

• u/TK17Studios:

  I hope mine is starting to become worthy of the label "major."  It's over 100,000 words and maybe like 40-60% finished.  There is a non-negligible amount of major darkness and sadness.
  
  [ao3](http://archiveofourown.org/works/5627803/chapters/12963046)
  
  [ffnet](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11090259/1/r-Animorphs-The-Reckoning)
  

• u/appropriate-username:

  Surprised nobody's recommended the short fiction [three worlds collide](http://lesswrong.com/lw/y4/three_worlds_collide_08/). It has some pretty dark elements. [Veil of ignorance](http://www.davidbarrkirtley.com/veilofignorancebydavidbarrkirtley.html) is also pretty dark. [Transdimensional brain chip](http://brainchip.thecomicseries.com/) is funny but it gets somewhat dark at the end, which is why I didn't recommend it in the other thread, lots of clone death IIRC.
  
  Not sure about the rationality of the following but I thought these were pretty dark too:
  
  Obviously the SCP stories. Notably, the memory/memetics series--I believe it starts here: http://www.scp-wiki.net/we-need-to-talk-about-fifty-five 
  
  RWBY vs the gamer is set in a pretty grim (heh) setting.
  
  www.prequeladventure.com or, as the header says, "making a cat cry: the adventure."
  

• u/NoYouTryAnother:

  [Prince of Thorns](http://aidanmoher.com/blog/2012/02/reviews/review-prince-of-thorns-by-mark-lawrence/) is *gorgeously* dark, set in a post-apocalyptic world in which Doomsday was the rendering of reality magical. It follows a precocious -(but not so much so as HPJEV, and with in-universe reason)- 13 yearold who initially seems to have psychopathy to rival HPMOR!Quirrel's apathy. Character's actions are always their own (or, if pawns, their unseen master's) and never the plot's, the amorality of the setting is altogether its own achievement, the protagonist wins only insofar as his resources merit (though sometimes these resources are hidden from the reader until after their relevance is revealed, and not every apparent win is real). I haven't seen the Rationalist community's take on it, but I think it fits the bill at least as well as any other non-Rationalist derived works and on top of that is, well, *gorgeous*.
  
  Oh, and fun trivia: Its author, /u/MarkLawrence, has a background in pure mathematics (PhD in Several Complex Variables) and [worked in AI](http://www.marklawrence.buzz/about-the-author/). Come to think of it, I'm surprised I haven't seen his work mentioned here before.
  

• u/Nighzmarquls:

  I've been told that I managed to inspire true despair in my readers during [Deeprise](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Webcomic/DeepRise), Sadly my hand is being forced on having to actually re-write that because the original site that holds the majority of the text of it went under without warning and has not come back in months.
  
  I have all of the images and about a third of the original written text from the first half and the last quarter saved by a diligent archive trawling fan but ultimately it looks like it will not be available to read in it's entirety until I can go over that story and re-write it.
  

  • u/traverseda:

    Is [wayback machine](https://web.archive.org/web/20150421102920/http://mspaforums.com/showthread.php?46308-Deep-Rise-An-Illustrated-Xenofiction-Adventure) missing anything?
    
    Also, I could have sworn that I read something similar in loops? Multithreading? Was that you?
    

    • u/Nighzmarquls:

      That was blatant concept insert if you mean the MLP loops :)
      

      • u/traverseda:

        I do. I admit it stuck with me.
        

        • u/Nighzmarquls:

          I almost think Deeprise as a story would be served better illustrated again and told from different points of view. More delving into the world, more meandering across the literal centuries of time the main plot traversed.
          
          Simultaneously more focus and honing of the themes.
          

  • u/None:

    I actually started (and stopped, unfortunately) reading Deeprise several months ago for exactly this reason! You mean it's gone? Damn.
    

    • u/Nighzmarquls:

      I have all the art for it backed up, and I have a very good memory for the written forms, even the missing ones. There was actually a lot of plot messiness I would like to fix up to make everything flow better. But I'm currently doing another project.
      
      But otherwise yeah, the text is missing about a third or so of the story.
      

  • u/None:

    An author of rational fiction losing his story due to holding the Idiot Ball and not making backups? Sorry, that's hilarious.
    

• u/Dustmaiden:

  If you're willing to read MLP beyond FiO, [The Time Loop Trilogy](https://www.fimfiction.net/story/67362/hard-reset) is definitely worth reading. If that doesn't do it for you, you can probably skip to its extra-dark AU The Reign of Queen Twilight Sparkle.
  

• u/tadrinth:

  Alicorn has a rationalfic of Twilight called [Luminosity](http://luminous.elcenia.com/story.shtml). 
  
  Her [Elcenia](http://elcenia.com/) stories are, if not dark, occasionally heartwrenching, if you're into that sort of thing.
  

---