scrape_r_rational/data/cache/2twd2z.md

[RST, FF] Repairing Ignorance. A HPMOR oneshot divergence at chapter 90. Spoilers for that story.

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• u/noggin-scratcher:

  The smile that "stopped short of his glistening eyes"... am I reading this right if I take it as implying that it's a somewhat forced smile while welling up with tears? The implication I'm getting is that in the process of fixing the problem he's discovered another; that he's just proven that people are automata, with free will found only in the 'map', not the reality. Hence "the only thing I could".
  
  I'm either being super-obvious or way off base, I submit the fact that *I can't tell which* as further evidence for the notion that any fact, no matter how heavily implied, can be rendered "hidden" by the simple artifice of not explicitly stating it.
  

  • u/None:

    > The implication I'm getting is that in the process of fixing the problem he's discovered another; that he's just proven that people are automata, with free will found only in the 'map', not the reality. Hence "the only thing I could".
    
    First response: compatibilism.
    
    Second response: there's a life on the line, who gives a shit?  Do you hesitate to think about whether a person is a Real Person with a Soul before restarting a stopped heart?
    

  • u/E-o_o-3:

    >he's just proven that people are automata
    
    Harry would have known that already. He can't smile because of residual fear.
    

• u/gregx1000:

  What a glorious goddamn workaround
  

• u/fljared:

  Gonna make an attempt to figure out an alternate ending:
  
  The Reparo 2.0 goes wrong, causing entropy to reverse. Time itself begins to reverse, back to the pre-big bang singularity.
  
  Bad Ending.
  

  • u/rumblestiltsken:

    Perfection. Exactly right. I wrote a little about it [here](http://www.reddit.com/r/HPMOR/comments/2ttdh5/repairing_ignorance_hpmor_oneshot_spoilers/co40x69).
    
    I'm not quite sure how an acausal timeless universe (as EY seems to suggest in canon) would interact with a negentropy ray though ...
    
    Can you work out the happy ending? Assume negentropy is not a problem and Harry has time for one spell before Quirrel arrives to kill them ("too dangerous to let live").
    

• u/None:

  Not to be *that guy* (although I totally am him), but part of what makes HPMOR so good is that this would probably not happen. Instead, Harry would think about how unlikely it is that this clever thought would actually work and not do nothing or screw things up horribly and irreparably, and he would do tests and things first, and talk to professors, because he has read books about clever little shits messing with things they don't understand, and he knows things only turned out well for them because they are in a book, and he most definitely is not.
  
  It worked with the Dementors and the Patronus 2.0, but that's cuz Yudders built it up, and it's so damn thematic. The logic was established before Harry did the thing, with every piece already there so it felt natural and right rather than Harry pulling a superpower out of his ass. And also as long as I'm on the subject it doesn't work dramatically to do it *twice.*
  

  • u/rumblestiltsken:

    Hopefully I don't come off like a defensive author here.
    
    Your arguments appear to be
    
    a) Harry wouldn't risk this without safety precautions and testing.
    
    - Harry has no way to test this without trying it, and no-one to ask who will give him a trustworthy answer. He has also already failed to take sensible precautions 3 times in HPMOR canon.
    
    b) He shouldn't use a perception change to make a new spell twice for dramatic reasons.
    
    - In canon he has done this with partial transfiguration, Patronus and potions already. It is also shown that AK works differently with different mental states as well. It is pretty much a theme in the source material.
    
    c) Harry is too rational to do this.
    
    - the entire point of the oneshot is to show how even strict rationalists can make decisions counter to their own stated positions when forced by circumstance, and that the Wizarding society is set up to create those circumstances, thereby increasing risk. This is a feature of the story, not a bug.
    
    d) He is not going to risk Hermione's body on untried magic 
    
    - Harry *did something* to Hermione's corpse, which later disappeared. Whatever it is, it wasn't partial transfiguration, Patronus 2.0 or acorn potions, so *even in canon* he has tested something unproven on her.
    

    • u/BT_Uytya:

      > Harry has no way to test this without trying it
      
      Killing and reviving small animals?
      

    • u/scruiser:

      Not the top post, but I do agree with him.
      
      > Harry has no way to test this without trying it, and no-one to ask who will give him a trustworthy answer.
      
      You are write that he can't ask anyone, however if he could catch and kill some small animals with blunt trauma and blood loss, he could at least confirm that the spell can be used to repair living things (it still doesn't ensure that it can do so without brain damage or that it can restore magic).
      
      > He has also already failed to take sensible precautions 3 times in HPMOR canon.
      
      He at least nominally planned on doing better next time.
      
      > In canon he has done this with partial transfiguration, Patronus and potions already.
      
      I agree with you on this.
      
      > the entire point of the oneshot is to show how even strict rationalists can make decisions counter to their own stated positions when forced by circumstance, and that the Wizarding society is set up to create those circumstances, thereby increasing risk. This is a feature of the story, not a bug.
      
      I still feel like he would have wanted to try the spell on dead animals first.
      
      > Harry did something to Hermione's corpse, which later disappeared. Whatever it is, it wasn't partial transfiguration, Patronus 2.0 or acorn potions, so even in canon he has tested something unproven on her.
      
      Actually the consensus theory is that he transfigured Hermione into a stable form.  The common theory is that in order to misdirect Dumbledore he transfigured her into the ring, then left a random object transfigured as Hermione in her place.  The transfiguration ends causing her sudden disappearance.  Dumbledore fall for his misdirection and only checks his stone and not his ring.  Since Harry has Hermione in a secure form, he can take his time developing the repair charm modification and testing it on animals.
      

      • u/rumblestiltsken:

        Why would he test it on small animals? The risk isn't to Hermione, she is dead. If it doesn't work it won't make her more dead.
        
        The risk is that he could unmake reality, and that risk is unchanged whether he tests on animals or people. In fact, there is even a small chance he could get the altered spell wrong, meaning each attempt carries an additional risk.
        
        If he transfigured Hermione in canon, then he has done something to her body that experts have said makes life impossible. It is heavily implied that this does something bad at the microscopic level, which means probably genetic as well as brain (and all other tissue) damage. 
        
        This is literally the worst thing he could do, knowing what he knows, because now he has to solve death *and* human to inanimate transfiguration complications, which actually sound harder to fix.
        

        • u/kaukamieli:

          > The risk isn't to Hermione, she is dead.
          
          Tell that to the Elric brothers.
          
          Shiiit. Why doesn't the series talk about animal transformation at all? Human is no good because of the soul, but could they resurrect pets?
          

          • u/Draconomial:

            The real reason no one ever questioned the longevity of Scabbers the rat.
            

          • u/fljared:

            Good question.
            
            Theory: Some implicit idea, to wizards, that resurrection of animals is wrong. Possibly some combination of a) "animals maybe have souls or something?" And b) that sounds like nasty icky necromancy
            

            • u/kaukamieli:

              Technically I was kinda going offtopic and to Fullmetal Alchemist where the only reason to not resurrect humans is because it doesn't work and it costs an arm and a leg. Animals however would be totally cool methinks.
              
              But yea, the topic is relevant to Potterverse too.
              

    • u/kaukamieli:

      Yes, Harry has noticed the perception change is what makes his spells work better. It's totally cool to try that with every spell. :)
      
      Maybe what makes magic disappear is just wizards not being able to change their perceptions. Maybe the spells to do great stuff didn't really disappear, but people use them all the time, but with wrong kind of thinking?
      
      Maybe they aren't missing the spellbook, but the manual?
      

  • u/scruiser:

    Thanks for saying this... the snippet didn't feel quite right to me, and your post put into words my issue with it.  It seems like Harry would test it with dead rats or something first.  Much less dramatic, but it would let him know if it can at least restore life and won't mess up the corpse and thereby ruin his future chance at resurrecting Hermione.
    

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