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[RST][FF][HF] Team Anko - Chapter 2
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u/liamash3:
Mean~ I wanna know what the Daimyo is planning, and you just had to leave off the reveal, didn't you? :D Interesting chapter, overall. A good summary of the political climate of the Naruto countries, as well as an explanation for their strange technology level - anything we'd consider beyond middle-ages in tech is imported from another country across the ocean, with a monopoly being held on goods from Lightning. Thus resulting in any goods being rare and very expensive, and thus not generally used in everything. Also could be taken as a valid explanation for the end of Naruto canon, where they get technology good enough for laptops and such.-
u/eaglejarl:
> Mean~ I wanna know what the Daimyo is planning, and you just had to leave off the reveal, didn't you? :D Yep. :> Admit it, it was more engaging this way, wasn't it? [tech / politics] Yep, that's how I see it. I did a bunch of research to figure out what the tech level of the Republic needed to be; the main thing I learned is that tech advanced at a TERRIFYING pace between 1800 and ~1920. Which isn't to say it's slowed down since then, it's just that I was looking to place them somewhere in that window of time. I eventually just chose a point and decided that their tech development tree wasn't identical to the real world, so they have / don't have certain things we had at the time. EDIT: typo- u/liamash3:
Informative. And yeah, by no means am I telling you off for not revealing the Daimyo's plan; that was a good method of a cliffhanger! I just /really/ wanna know :D Tech development really got going once we started up the scientific method for most things, I hear. Along with making computers, which just made it go faster. I mean, we may not have flying jetpacks for the average citizen now, but we've got /really/ fancy phones, Roomba, the Internet...lots of stuff people didn't think of just 30 or 40 years ago!
- u/liamash3:
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u/AugSphere:
I wonder what Anko is going for with antagonising her genins. Whatever her goal is, the manipulation is pretty effective; I certainly wanted to punch her in the face several times. I just hope she is not wasting valuable training time for shitty reasons. Killing intent dick measuring contests made me facepalm. You've perfectly captured the stupid-monkeyness inherent in human condition.- u/eaglejarl:
> I just hope she is not wasting valuable training time for shitty reasons. I promise she doesn't feel that she's wasting valuable training time. ;>
- u/eaglejarl:
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u/eaglejarl:
Also check the [Author's Note](http://davidstorrs.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21&p=23#p23) for vocab and map.-
u/qznc:
Also check it out for the challenge, I guess. Not as complex as HPMoR's "final exam", but I like it. Will this exam-style-at-chapter-end continue?-
u/eaglejarl:
I hadn't really thought about it, but sure -- why not?-
u/qznc:
It makes the third point (according to sidebar) of rational*ist* fiction quite explicit: "The story is like a puzzle; readers can reach the same solution as the characters by using the information provided earlier in the story."- u/eaglejarl:
Good point. Okay, that's now the plan.
- u/eaglejarl:
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u/eltegid:
Very very nice chapter! A possible typo/mistake: I believe you meant Yamanaka instead of Inuzaka here "It was possible that Shino had some Inuzaka blood, because he might have plucked the thought from her mind"- u/eaglejarl:
Grr. Yes, that's what I meant. I used it correctly earlier in the chapter but apparently had a braincramp here. Thanks for pointing it out. Fixed.
- u/eaglejarl:
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u/lsparrish:
Could they be planning a railroad? Or maybe a maglev type system using levitation seals?- u/eaglejarl:
Hasn't been stated in story yet, but I don't think it's much of a spoiler: the Elemental Nations have no railroads, and the Republic only developed them pretty recently -- they don't have a lot of track yet. If they *did* have railroads though, this would be an excellent idea.
- u/eaglejarl:
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u/MadScientist14159:
I'm pretty sure that Shino is the heir to the Aburame clan, so Hinata's inner monologue about people not liking when you remind them you're higher rank than them doesn't really make sense: they're of equal rank. Also, it's the land of Rice-paddies, not the land of Sound. Hidden Sound Village is located in the land of Rice-paddies.-
u/eaglejarl:
[Shino is the heir] Can you provide a citation for that? It isn't mentioned in [his entry](http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shino_Aburame) on the wiki, or [the Aburame clan's](http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Aburame_clan) entry, and [his father](http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shibi_Aburame) isn't listed as the head of the clan -- just "the pride of" the clan. (Also, Shibi was sent on missions, which doesn't sound very clan-headish.) > Also, it's the land of Rice-paddies, not the land of Sound. Hidden Sound Village is located in the land of Rice-paddies. [The wiki disagrees.](http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Land_of_Sound) EDIT: Fixed a link-
u/MadScientist14159:
From Shibi's wiki page: > Occupation: Head of the Aburame Clan Huh. So they renamed the land of Rice-paddies. That's interesting. [Although it was still called Rice Paddies at that point in time](http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Land_of_Rice_Fields_Investigation_Mission).- u/eaglejarl:
[Shibi] Aha! Thank you, I missed that. [Rice fields] Meh, I don't want to get involved in national renaming and make my readers keep track of whether it's Istanbul or Constantinople. It's just going to be Sound. Good pointer, though.
- u/eaglejarl:
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u/eltegid:
Well, the Hyuga clan is arguably much more important than the Aburame clan.
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u/omgimpwned:
A solid chapter by all accounts, very solid indeed! I quite liked it. I found a lot of the hints you're beginning to lay out very interesting. And I am also very happy that you made the thoroughly sensible choice to stay far, far away from anything related to Wave and pursue your own, more interesting plot line. And it does sound very interesting - not quite like anything I've seen before. And I liked your versions of shadow clones. However, you've not nerfed them particularly hard, it appears, in the purest combat sense. I trust Naruto won't inexplicably forget that he can spawn an army at will, like he does in canon - he really is quite powerful, already. I have to say, my previously expressed worries regarding character expression and humour have been somewhat alleviated by this chapter. Anko's scene with Naruto definitely had me giggling at a few points. The Hokage *felt* like the bloody Hokage. There wasn't a single thing that I considered objectionable. Perhaps, it was more the unique flavour of 2YE that made it like that. This looks like you're turning over a promising new leaf (heh) so far, anyway. I think your Naruto is quite, well, off-flavour from the original (stupid) canon character - but I also trust this is intentional. I'm honestly not going to complain - canon Naruto is just horrible most of the time, until later in the series when he grows up a little bit. Your Naruto feels more like a more intelligent/less actively dumb version of late-Shippuuden Naruto than it does the dattebayo-spurting dimwit from early canon. I do have a few minor quibbles, though I'm not in a hurry to have them addressed. As you promised, I trust you've got some twists in mind to explain away the worst inconsistencies. My most major quibble, really, is that the characters don't really act like twelve year olds. They act like young adults (14-18) - who are generally much more interesting characters to write about. Don't get me wrong - I think trying hard to make them act like actual twelve year olds would be a horrible mistake. I just prefer to be able to also picture them as young adults in my head, when emotionally and narratively, that's what they feel like. It's not that big a deal, I guess, and perhaps changing the ages was too big a change, since you're playing canon *mostly* straight so far. I also still can't think of an explanation for how the puny numbers of ninja matches up with country-to-country warfare. It sounded like your Land of Fire was about a quarter to half the size of France, which implies a population at the very least well into the millions at this technology level, unless it's just barren forests and supports a far smaller population than one might think, for some reason. Considering how canon ninja match up to normal civilians, it seems unlikely that "normals" can match the power of even a few ninja by fielding regular armies. So either you must have thoroughly nerfed the more powerful ninja (so Kisame couldn't casually destroy an arbitrarily large army of normals with a moving sea, for example), or the fact is that ninja really are so overpowered that only they truly can wage open war, even though they are so few in number. And I might be convinced of the truth of this if ninja were portrayed as being such an incredibly important elite, but they're not. Academy training appears to be appallingly lacking and the Konoha Academy is, at the very least, not the *ultra elite super star academy* it ought to be in such a case, and ninja are not, so far as I know, treated as the ultimate saviours and guardians of the nation, nor as their all-powerful all-dominating tyrants. There must be some balance of power that prevents any slightly ruthless Kage from simply deposing their nation's daimyo or turning them into political figureheads for the people. It's not like anyone can do anything to stop a ninja anyway, unless they are one. Wealth only gets you so far, and ninja don't appear to be incredibly wealthy, either, so that's not the balancing factor. Ninja have been around for a while. If the village-daimyo system has been around for a while (long enough to be stable across multiple generations) and is practically universal, as you imply in your map post, there must be some incentive to keep it that way, and to have made it that way in the first place. I can't for the life of me think how that works out at all with things as currently portrayed, but I shall keep my mind open. As a last aside note, I see you're doing the "technology advanced far-off country" thing as well. Good move - it does go a long way to explain some of the worse technological quirks of the universe. That's a big part of the reason I decided to do it myself. (Worse, you made it a bloody republic, too. Are you reading my mind?) Eh, I ramble again. TL;DR - good job! I've a few worries and some things puzzle me, but I'm more speculating out loud than actively complaining, right now. I genuinely look forward to reading more.-
u/eaglejarl:
Meh. I had a long post here, but the details don't matter. It all boils down to "I think you should reread, because you are misunderstanding several things and making a lot of assumptions that are not supported (or are contradicted) in the text." As to IFF and appropriating your ideas / reading your mind -- definitely not deliberately. I read IFF a long time ago and then skimmed it again after your mega-review on 2YE. Very little of it has stuck, so there's certainly no deliberate theft going on. I suspect that a lot of the points of congruence are simply because the ideas are pretty obvious -- canon!Konoha has no revealed tech base that would support radio headsets and satellite dishes, so they must be coming from elsewhere. The tech is rare, which probably means expensive, which probably means the source is a long way away. What kind of country would have a higher tech base? One that didn't have chakra, so had to focus on tech. What government structure best supports tech development in the real world? Democracies / republics.-
u/omgimpwned:
>I think you should reread, because you are misunderstanding several things and making a lot of assumptions that are not supported (or are contradicted) in the text. Assumptions regarding what? The population issues? I think I read it fairly carefully, and I even read your glossary of terms, and I still can't make it work out inside my head. I'm not going to do a reread immediately, but whatever it was, it certainly wasn't obvious to *me,* though I'm perfectly willing to admit that I could be wrong, or have missed it. If you could point me at the general gist of the misunderstanding, I could probably do the rest of the inference work myself, without any need for you to write a long and detailed outline. I am honestly curious.- u/eaglejarl:
(We actually just discussed all this on Skype, but for everyone else's benefit I'll put it here as well.) Things I haven't covered yet: * How many ninja there are * What warfare looks like in this world * Why the political situation (Kage + Daimyo) works the way it does And you're right, the genin don't act like 12-year-olds. For a lot of history, kids were apprenticed at 8, married at 13, and had kids by 14. Also, these are child soldiers who grew up with adult ninja as role models. They are mentally much older than an equivalent modern Western 12-year-old would be. As to nerfing shadow clones -- in some ways I gave them a boost, by saying that you can make them human-solid. On the other hand, I nerfed them by saying: * They don't give you their memories when they pop, so they don't provide parallel processing for thinking or training. That's the big one right there. * They aren't fanatically loyal / obedient, so they won't do anything you wouldn't be willing to do (unless you make them really stupid, anyway; the ones with the IQ of a dog will happily dive in the septic tank for you, but they lack any ability to think their way around unexpected events). If you make them as smart as you are, they may go off and have a barbecue instead of doing your hunting for you.
- u/eaglejarl:
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u/eaglejarl:
I just realized that the forums were all set to "Read-Only Access", meaning that all posts were going to moderation. Sorry about; it should be fixed now. -
u/actually_just_idiot:
So ninja have storage seals, and they are apparently cheap enough that they can use them for storing spare supplies. Why aren't storage seals used for transporting goods? A ninja with movement-focused abilities could go way faster than a wagon. I'm not seeing how wagons relate to the revelation at the end of the chapter, either.- u/eaglejarl:
Storage scrolls are mass- and volume- limited, which is why they aren't used for shipping machinery. [In addition, ](#s "the Republic is being very tight-fisted with their tech advantage; everything they sell is as far as possible from military application, has No User Serviceable Parts Inside, and is in fact actively designed to prevent inspection or tampering. Part of that design process is they make things hella heavy, exactly to prevent storage scrolls. (Unknown to them, the Byakugan allows trivial inspction of the insides of the devices, but that's only a Konoha thing.) A big part of why they're doing this is because they aren't sure who would win if there was a Republic / ninja war right now, and they definitely don't want to give the potential future enemy more war-fighting capacity.")
- u/eaglejarl: