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Looking for more gems like Mother of learning (can be fanfictions/ web novels/ crossover fiction)
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u/Mowtom_:
Why do people keep asking for a male protagonist? That's never quite made sense to me. Would a protagonist's gender really keep someone from enjoying a story? (note: I'm expressing genuine curiosity, not trying to shame. My apologies if it comes across as shaming.)-
u/rizcoco:
It's actually for a simple reason. Male protagonist + romance = story where they can self-insert as the reader, in a wish fulfillment kind of way. I remember a similar thread a while back. [Found it, same OP.](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/4xjx81/just_finished_the_games_we_play_by_ryuugi_and_i/)-
u/themousehunter:
Damn, choosing to not read Worm just for that? OP's missing out! -
u/Nashkt:
While I'm sure wish fulfillment can be a factor, could it also not simple because it is easier to identify with a protagonist of the same sex? I really don't see what the big deal is about having a preference in protagonists.- u/chaosmosis:
It might also be that people's early exposure to female protagonists is misleading to them. There's a correlation between protagonist gender and themes, especially in children's books.
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u/CeruleanTresses:
Plus it seems like an odd thing to specifically request when "male protagonist, includes romance" is practically the default option in popular media. Like, I get asking for stories with particular qualities that are uncommon, but this is not really something you have to explicitly seek out to find it. If anything, it's impossible to get *away* from male protagonists with romance. To each their own, but I don't get it.-
u/Nashkt:
Even if it is the default, doesn't that just means there is a lot of crap he would have to sort through? Which is why he is making this request to begin with?-
u/CeruleanTresses:
Male protag + romance being the most common means that there's a higher chance that any given work recommended for its plot/style/whatever will also have those qualities.- u/Nashkt:
I don't see why that means he shouldn't ask for recommendations with those qualities? He wants good stories with those specific qualities, and thus he is asking for recommended titles. I really don't see the problem here.
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u/Anderkent:
Actually, there's not that much romance with a male protagonist? Romance as a genre seems to target women more (for fairly obvious reasons); and those usually have female protagonists.- u/CeruleanTresses:
That's true of romance-driven plots, but stories with a male protagonist and a romantic subplot are ubiquitous.
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u/generalamitt:
I just have an easier time identifying with male protagonists.-
u/GaBeRockKing:
But if you ask for one specifically, your threads just get inundated with people talking about your preference for male protagonists. Just don't include that requirement, and ignore all the fics without male leads.-
u/generalamitt:
Yes you are probably right. I just don't understand why people are making such a big deal of a simple preference. No I don't hate women, And I don't think men are superior in any way. But as a male, reading from another male perspective is much more fun for me, especially when romance is involved.-
u/TophMelonLord:
Hey man, I get that and I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a main character you can identify with, but look at it this way: My main concern with this is that you are missing a lot of really great stuff. Worm is one of the best stories I have read and it has a female protagonist. If you were a woman who could only read books with a female protagonist or from a female perspective (my girlfriend is a bit like this), then you would miss out on Mother of Learning and whatever other books you personally love. I would try and branch out a little bit in terms of characters you can relate to, because I think you are ignoring a lot of great stories. It's like people who don't eat spicy food. You are missing so much great food! And you are doing it to yourself!-
u/generalamitt:
I also don't like to eat spicy food D: You know what, I will give Worm a try and see what happens. Admittedly, when I read the hunger games I couldn't put the book down so it's not like I can't enjoy female POV. Hope I won't be disappointed.-
u/TophMelonLord:
Glad to hear! If you can, try to get to Arc 8 - it's my second-favorite part of the story and it's where the whole thing gets kicked into 12th gear. -
u/CrystalShadow:
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.4265 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F/54736) -
u/chaosmosis:
Another good reason to read Worm is that with that investment you're opening up a large number of potential fanfictions that do meet your criteria.
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u/callmebrotherg:
> I just don't understand why people are making such a big deal of a simple preference. Because we've had redpiller-types ask along the same lines, justifying it not with "It's easier to identify with a male character" but with "Rational female characters are so unrealistic har har" and that's what some people tend to assume is going on when there isn't any clarification to go on.
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u/monkyyy0:
pact -wildbow? -
u/Adeen_Dragon:
Your in luck! I've been on a bit of a reading kick this past month, and recently tried to find out how much I read. It's non-exhaustive, but should give you a nice place to start. Time Braids: 200,000 Chiaroscuro: 200,000 Team 8 : 275,000 Pokémon the origin of species: 287,000 Hermione Granger and the perfectly reasonable explanation: 110,000 The game of Champions: 128,000 Seventh Horcrux: 105,000 Metropolitan man: 80,000 Dungeon Keeper Ami: 500,000 Mother of learning: 470,000-
u/Afforess:
I second the recommendation for *Pokemon, The Origin of Species*. It is is very well written and worth the read. *Dungeon Keeper Ami* is fun, but clearly amateur. Still worth the read in my opinion. I'd also recommend *A Hero's War*, by jseah. It has a male protagonist and a little romance. *A practical guide to evil* is also a lot of fun. It has a female protagonist, but satisfies all your other criteria.-
u/appropriate-username:
> I second the recommendation for Pokemon, The Origin of Species. Thirded. I don't remember any romance though. -
u/Agasthenes:
Dungeon keeper ami is very amusing. I never watched sailor moon and still enjoyed it. Do you by any chance know how fast it is updated? I just binged it over the holidays.
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u/appropriate-username:
Time braid is pretty good if you don't mind rape scenes but the MC is a girl. Also, OP mentioned mother of learning in the title. I don't remember any romance scenes in it though.- u/Adeen_Dragon:
I was just dumping a list of fics I've read in the past two months; I compiled it for a different reason, but figured I'd drop it here. I knew that it wasn't exactly what OP wanted, but figured that it was better than nothing, which is where we started with. 'Course, we're not there now. Should I delete my comment?
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u/Friedoobrain:
Anything by Wildbow. His Magnum Opus Worm has a suposedly female protagonist but she's written so androgynously that you tend to forget it. There's the Zombie Knight which is pretty good, but has a protagonist crippled by social anxiety. This might be a turn off for some. Tobwebfiction.com has a list of some of the more popular original webnovels and I use it to look for new stuff sometimes. For fanfiction, going to fanfiction.net, spacebattles.com or suffiecientvelocity.com checking whats popular and matches your interest might be the best way to go about it. in any of those there are vast amounts of fanfiction for varied tastes.-
u/CeruleanTresses:
I wouldn't say that Taylor was written androgynously. Her gender just wasn't front-and-center or plot-critical, which is also true of many male protagonists.-
u/Draconomial:
Eh. I've noticed that male characters are tempted by girls and women more than female characters, in ways that affects the story. As for female protagonists, they tend to be far less sexual. Of course, I think of many stories that are exceptions.- u/Traim:
I disagree in my opinion most popular fantasy / scifi books with a female main protagonist released in the recent years since Twilight are mostly romance or when not even sexual orientated. That is partly why I stopped reading popular fantasy and started looking into light and web novel gems.
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u/UltraRedSpectrum:
How is Taylor Hebert written "androgynously"?-
u/Friedoobrain:
This is subjective obviously, but with the exception of one early storyline [Spoiler](#s "Her enfatuation with Grue") I never felt her gender was noticeable at all. You could have replaced her reproductive organ and changed little in the story but the pronouns.-
u/UltraRedSpectrum:
But isn't that true of like 90% of characters (particularly since a hypothetical gay male Taylor could also have been infatuated with Brian)? If Taylor is androgynous, what does a non-androgynous character look like?-
u/I_am_your_BRAIN:
As opposed to one emphasizing masculine/feminine traits as part of their PoV? There's certainly other PoV characters in the story that *do* emphasize traits like that. -
u/Mowtom_:
Yeah. I mean, given [Arc 3 or 4 spoiler I think] (#s " her trigger event: being shoved and locked into a locker full of pads and tampons") she feels pretty female to me.- u/Frommerman:
Hey, I'd probably trigger in that circumstance as well.
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u/OutOfNiceUsernames:
The “contains some romance” bit makes it somewhat hard for me to give you recommendations because I generally don’t like when romance has a major role in the plot-buildling, and tend to forget those parts even when they exist. Nevertheless, here are some things you may like: Novels: * __[*The Magicians*](https://www.goodreads.com/series/50834-the-magicians)__ trilogy — Chronicles of Narnia \ Harry Potter deconstruction where even magic can’t cure protag’s depression. * __[*Replay*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/341735.Replay)__ by Ken Grimwood — protag keeps waking up each time he dies, but each time a bit later into his life. Webnovels: * __[*With This Ring*](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanfic/WithThisRing)__ — a Young Justice SI fanfic with male protag (WiP). I haven’t read the most recent chapters, but several months ago he was starting to look for a romantic partner. It has some slice of life elements, but it’s not that much of a problem if you’re not waiting for new chapters to come out. There are some idiot balls, but not that many. * [*A Hero's War*](https://www.fictionpress.com/s/3238329/1/A-Hero-s-War) (WiP) — protag wakes up in a middle-ages fantasy setting, and his first obstacle to survival is a [*Tremors*](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/Tremors) [expy.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Expy) IIRC, had some neat [TechnologyUplift](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TechnologyUplift) going on. * [*How to Avoid Death on a Daily Basis*](http://www.fictiongrill.com/how-to-avoid-death-on-a-daily-basis/) — Similarly to the previous story, starts with waking up in a fantasy setting. IIRC, the selling point for this story was that the protag had to survive while he had no special powers, or something like that. Also IIRC, the story somewhat dropped in quality later on. Translated asian webnovels: All of these are [RPGMechanicsVerse](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RPGMechanicsVerse) stories in one way or another, so if you don’t like that genre, these won’t be for you, I guess. * __[*Reincarnator*](http://www.novelupdates.com/series/reincarnator/)__ — has some repeating tropes, but otherwise is well-written. Protag goes back in time to try saving humanity after a meta-verse merging event. * __[*King of the Battlefield*](http://www.novelupdates.com/series/the-king-of-the-battlefield/)__ — premise is very similar to the previous one, actually. * [*Terror Infinity*](http://www.novelupdates.com/series/terror-infinity/) — a [jumpchain](https://www.reddit.com/r/JumpChain/)-type cross-fic that has so far featured the following cinematic universes: Resident Evil series, Alien series, The Grudge, The Mummy, Final Destination series, Jurassic Park, [the Vampiric Mask](http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Stone_Mask) from JoJo, Starship Troopers, The Lord Of The Rings. * Evolution Theory of the Hunter * Life Mission * Dungeon Hunter — this one noticeably drops in quality in later chapters HP fanfics: * __[*Too Young to Die*](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9057950/1/Too-Young-to-Die)__ — Harry’s sister dies, and he tries to resurrect her. Very good writing. * __[*Elizium for the Sleepless Souls*](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7713063/1/Elizium-for-the-Sleepless-Souls)__ — a well written horror\suspense. * [*HP & the Maw*](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2109003/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Maw) — Harry gets assigned to a crazy battle trainer from hell and tries to survive. * [*The Denarian Renegade*](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3473224/1/The-Denarian-Renegade) — Harry gets possessed by a demon, they eventually form a symbiotic relationship. * [*Emperor*](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5904185/1/Emperor) (WiP) — IIRC, Harry makes his way into becoming a mundane army commander, and uses his position to try subduing the magical world. * [*With Strength of Steel Wings*](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9036071/1/With-Strength-of-Steel-Wings) (WiP) — Harry is raised by a mundane person who suspects about existence of magic. Naruto fanfics: * __[*The Waves Arisen*](https://wertifloke.wordpress.com/2015/01/25/chapter-1/)__ — Naruto tries his hand at munchkining using [kage bunshin,](http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Clone_Technique) and some other things.-
u/waylandertheslayer:
Seconding *The Waves Arisen* and adding to Naruto fanfics: *[Lighting up the Dark](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9311012/1/Lighting-Up-the-Dark)* - A HPMOR-inspired rational!Naruto *[Team 7's Ascension: Blood Wings](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9948266/1/Team-7-s-Ascension-Blood-Wings)* - A dark-ish AU centred around Team 7. It's part of a planned trilogy; the second part is also finished and the author's on a break before starting the third part.- u/chaosmosis:
> Seconding The Waves Arisen and adding to Naruto fanfics: Thirding.
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u/thrawnca:
Mother of Learning doesn't and won't contain romance, the author has clearly stated that. I don't feel that that detracts at all from it, though; I agree that it sets a high standard. Presumably that means that you're OK with unfinished-but-living works? I finally checked out A Hero's War recently, and binged it all. Lots of magitech, interesting effort to deal with the economic and social ramifications of introducing the industrial revolution. Romance is present, but not overstated; though bear in mind that it's unfinished. The only point that seemed to ring a bit false was perhaps a bit too much idealism about how people would react to massive social and technological change. There's push-back, certainly, but I would expect more. I can't say that I identify with your identifying more with male protagonists, but to each zeir own, I guess. If you're willing to branch out from that, the Arithmancer is fun, exploring "What if Hermione was a genius at maths instead of a bookworm?" It only covers years 1-4, though, and the sequel is IMO moving a bit slowly. Have you read everything on rationalfiction.io? I enjoyed some of them more than others, but if you like MoL, they're all worth checking out. Bear in mind that that site doesn't always have the complete story uploaded. -
u/most-real-struggle:
[And They Shall Reap The Whirlwind](http://otherhistory.proboards.com/thread/431/shall-reap-whirlwind) is a self insert into the life of bomber harris. It's long and well done. [Set in Stone](https://setinstonestory.wordpress.com/) A rational/ist Stonepunk story set in the future on planet controlled by an AI in an agrarian society. A very interesting and enjoyable story. /u/farmerbob1 's other story [Symbiote](https://farmerbob1.wordpress.com/about/) was also pretty good. [Savage Divinity](https://royalroadl.com/fiction/chapter/58095) I remember the start being a little slow, but seriously awesome world-building. Has a fair amount of romance > A modern man finds himself reincarnated in the body of a young slave with no skills and quickly fading memories. Follow his journey to find normalcy while living in a savage world, filled with myth and legends, monsters and Demons. In a land where the strong rule, the weak serve, and bloodshed is a way of life, peace is a luxury few can afford... Less action, more character and world driven is my aim. Mature language and themes, but no raunchy sex. Updates 3 times a week usually, currently I get more excited by updates from this than from MOL. [The Last Angel](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-last-angel.244209/) is a story where humanity lost a war and was conquered, but humanities most powerful weapon, an AI Battleship, continues the war 1500 years later. It's been 4 years since I've read it and from what I remember it switches genres to a survival horror novel about halfway in for 20 chapters or so. Really good and apparently there is a sequel that I am going now going to have to check out. [The Gam3](https://thegam3.com/2016/05/10/prologue-start-enter-the-game/) is an extremely well done Litrpg. If its something you like the author has published an edited version of the first book [Opening Moves](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DFCNAPG) with some extra content. Its the best LitRPG I've read, feels smooth and not clunky. -
u/None:
We have a monthly recommendation thread for that reason. -
u/Terkala:
If you're willing to give light novels a second chance, check out Overlord. Its far and away the most professionally written light novel. There is also Harry potter and the natural 20. D&D Harry potter. If you want to branch out to scifi, /r/hfy has a lot of really good stories. Check the sidebar for the genre defining reads.