scrape_r_rational/data/cache/7rucf7.md

[RT][WIP][HF][MK] Threadbare (Original LitRPG)

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• u/sparkc:

  For me, Threadbare was most enjoyable when it wasn't trying to be much more than a fun, unique take on the litrpg genre that didn't take itself overly seriously and focused on its protagonist.
  
  As soon as the author started changing the tone a little, prioritising plot more and adding in side characters left right and centre, it exposed the quality of the writing a lot more. When i'm reading a story that's aim is to be fun and not take itself too seriously then i'm a lot more lax in how critical i am of character motivation, competence, realism etc. but as soon as that tone starts to shift i feel the standard i hold the story up to starts to shift with it. And Threadbare hasn't really met that standard for me.
  
  Ceclia and Fluffbear are the only side characters i have any real attachment too, I don't particularly care about Cylvania or its citizens, i dont believe many of the characters have strong motivations or more than the smallest amount of depth and i don't find the plot particularly engrossing. None of this is overly surprising when the author is pumping out 5k words a day but if you're going to pump out 5k words a day in effort of a story with a large character list and a 'serious' plot with 'serious' consequences then, well, good luck.
  

• u/VorpalAuroch:

  I wouldn't call this rational, but it is definitely adorable.
  

• u/appropriate-username:

  Dunno about [rt]. 
  
  >The fictional world has consistent rules, and sticks to them.
  
  The fictional world's rules keep getting adjusted because of all the new skills.
  
  >Nothing happens solely because 'the plot requires it'. If characters do (or don't do) something, there must be a plausible reason.
  
  In concert with the first point, the characters get new skills as they're needed to overcome challenges, because the plot requires the characters to live.
  
  I do like the story though.
  

  • u/Flashbunny:

    The world does have consistent overarching rules. (Well, in the recent past those rules have changed, but that's a big plot point.) That the characters are unlocking new skills and abilities isn't inconsistent with the worldbuilding at all - if entirely new ways of gaining skills were suddenly introduced, that might be an issue, but that the characters don't have access to all information and powers from the start doesn't break that rule.
    
    I also don't think the plot is pulling new skills out to "save" the characters. In the beginning this was arguably the case, because starting from nothing meant that whatever they gained in the short term (when levels are easier to gain) would be used to solve the immediate issues relating to "not dying". Later on though, the characters develop skills much more slowly - where skills are needed to overcome a specific issue, the characters clearly work towards unlocking said skills, rather than them dropping from heaven into their hands. That's just making use of the existing system that they're aware of.
    
    I appreciate this genre (where discrete new abilities appear as characters progress) does often fail as you've described, but I don't think it's happening here.
    

    • u/appropriate-username:

      > where skills are needed to overcome a specific issue, the characters clearly work towards unlocking said skills, rather than them dropping from heaven into their hands. That's just making use of the existing system that they're aware of.
      
      
      
      [mild spoilers](#s " How was the recently unlocked teleport golem skill not a solution for the exact problem they were having? How did they work towards that one?")
      

      • u/LordGoldenroot:

        That one in the end would have not changed much whether it came up or not. In a worst case scenario all that would have happened would be [](#s " The Lurker killing the fake Cecelia who would be soul stoned and revived again. There would not have really been any consequences if Threadbare did not have that skill but the situation allowed the author to introduce a skill that could be used later.")
        

        • u/appropriate-username:

          [major spoilers](#s "Fake C is still one of the characters. It's uncertain if they have a free soulstone, it would take time and materials they may not have had access to to create a new golem body, they'd be one party member down for the entire dungeon raid (assuming the lurker is not stupid enough to kill the hostage or give the party time to make a new golem if he did) and the lurker could've used marva as a bargaining chip and a means of control even despite the golem not being as important as cecelia, because marva is still a valued party member. Even if the party managed to clear the dungeon while down a party member and while being taunted and pursued by lurker with a hostage at the same time, there's still the problem of trying to shoot him down without also killing marva at the same time; this increases the odds that he'd get away in the end, especially given that he almost got away as it is. ")
          
          
          [major spoilers](#s "Given all that, I don't see how marva's kidnapping was inconsequential because it wasn't cecelia.")
          

          • u/LordGoldenroot:

            > [major spoilers](#s "I was under the impression that they would have had some soul stones available at all times just in case someone died. While they did not have any at hand when Cecelia died it was only Threadbare there who is small enough to not really have anywhere to keep soul stones without it being obvious he has them in addition to the fact that Threadbare did not go into that situation expecting a fight. Additionally the Lurker would be unlikely to kill the fake because a hostage does not have much use when they are dead and by the time they got close enough to the the Lurker to hold hostages they would be close enough for soul stones to work. Taking care of the lurker should deal with the whole resources issue due to how big a deal that would be to the dwarfs and Marva was weak enough that she could not really contribute much to the dungeon and had hide in the pack quickly anyway.")
            

            • u/appropriate-username:

              >[major spoilers](#s "I was under the impression that they would have had some soul stones available at all times just in case someone died. While they did not have any at hand when Cecelia died it was only Threadbare there who is small enough to not really have anywhere to keep soul stones without it being obvious he has them in addition to the fact that Threadbare did not go into that situation expecting a fight.")
              
              Fair enough.
              
              >[major spoilers](#s "Additionally the Lurker would be unlikely to kill the fake because a hostage does not have much use when they are dead and by the time they got close enough to the the Lurker to hold hostages they would be close enough for soul stones to work.")
              
              As has been demonstrated by the text when they were in the beginning of the dungeon, he can threaten to do so and that will hamper the team because they don't know whether he's bluffing or not. 
              
              [major spoilers](#s "When he sees Cecelia in Threadbare's party especially he's likely to figure out that he's holding a fake golem and that would increase the odds that he tosses the fake over the cliff, putting them out of bounds of the soul gem and increasing the probability that the team will be down one member for an extended period of time.")
              
              >[major spoilers](#s "Taking care of the lurker should deal with the whole resources issue due to how big a deal that would be to the dwarfs and Marva was weak enough that she could not really contribute much to the dungeon and had hide in the pack quickly anyway.")
              
              Fair point. Though the team strategy would still probably have changed if they had the threat of [spoilers](#s "her being tossed over the cliff") hanging over their heads for the entire dungeon and the [major spoilers](#s "last fight with the lurker. In particular, I don't think you addressed my last point that the Lurker would've gotten away if he had a hostage.")
              

              • u/LordGoldenroot:

                >As has been demonstrated by the text when they were in the beginning of the dungeon, he can threaten to do so and that will hamper the team because they don't know whether he's bluffing or not.
                
                >[major spoilers](#s "last fight with the lurker. In particular, I don't think you addressed my last point that the Lurker would've gotten away if he had a hostage.")
                
                [spoilers](#s "I was under the impression that Graves could evict spirits from their dolls if they wanted to leave using spirit medium but thinking back the conditions of that were never stated so it is possible that doing so would not possible in battle so unless we get more information on that ability it is a fair point.")
                

  • u/Kuiper:

    > The fictional world's rules keep getting adjusted because of all the new skills.
    
    I haven't read all of Threadbare, but this does not strike me as inherently irrational -- changing rules and paradigms are a natural part of how the real world operates.
    
    For example, in the early part of the middle ages, one of the "rules" of conventional warfare was that stone castle walls were an impregnable barrier, and most methods of assaulting a castle consisted of trying to surround it and cut it off from outside resources and trying to indirectly attack the castle's occupants with hunger, disease, and thirst rather than trying to actually penetrate the stone walls.
    
    Then humanity unlocked the "cannon" skill and the rules changed.
    
    Whether rule changes "makes sense" is mostly related to how closely these rules can be tied back to first principles.  For example, we can treat "gravity" is a first principle (or about as close as you can get to it), while "it's impossible for a human to vertically jump 3 meters" is not.  If tomorrow we discovered a human who had a vertical jump of 3 meters, it would defy a lot of assumptions, and break a lot of ideas that athletic coaches have probably been enshrined as "rules" about what the human body is capable of, but it wouldn't fundamentally alter our understanding of the universe.
    

  • u/immute:

    Hm. I get what you're saying here, though in these respects, I'm not sure how the story differs from *Worth the Candle*, except that the latter has the protagonist questioning the nature of the text.
    

    • u/serge_cell:

      Character development in *Worth the Candle* is much deeper. The problem of Threadbare is it's difficult to add much character depth to toy bear. He/It don't have history or memories. It's quite like to write about non-humanoid alien. It's either too human or too alien to care. The protagonist character is threadbare by necessity.
      

    • u/appropriate-username:

      I haven't read it. Is there a completed volume of the story out? Would you recommend it?
      

      • u/sparkc:

        The story is divided into 'books' and there are three 'books' completed i believe. It's the most popular fiction posted to this subreddit at the moment, based on upvotes. Personally it's by far my favourite ongoing serial.
        
        EDIT: Second most popular behind MOL
        

        • u/appropriate-username:

          > It's the most popular fiction posted to this subreddit at the moment, 
          
          "At the moment" is kinda vague but by upvotes and discussion this subreddit is a "mother of learning" discussion and fan forum that sometimes talks about rationality and other stories.
          
          >The story is divided into 'books' and there are three 'books' completed i believe. Personally it's by far my favourite ongoing serial.
          
          Thanks :)
          

          • u/sparkc:

            > "At the moment" is kinda vague but by upvotes and discussion this subreddit is a "mother of learning" discussion and fan forum that sometimes talks about rationality and other stories.
            
            I feel like upvotes within this sub is a reasonable metric of popularity and that popularity among r/rational subscribers is useful evidence to give to someone posting to this sub if they're trying to determine whether to start a fiction. 
            
            If i completely misunderstood you and you're comment was aimed at my misstatement that WTC was the most popular fic on this sub then yes, MOL is more popular though i did edit my comment to this effect immediately after posting and realising.
            

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