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Archive persistent-worker experiment and adopt simpler prototype direction
WIP archive only: edxeth changes are unaccepted and not installed. pi-goals npm test: 165 passed. Preserve raw patch and terminal capture whitespace. Co-Authored-By: Pi/OpenAI <288921227+claudypoo@users.noreply.github.com>
This commit is contained in:
wassname
@@ -53,6 +53,66 @@ And it would only be a few output tokens.
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-- wassname (spelling and punctuation corrected by Pi/OpenAI)
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## User voice: redesign discussion, 2026-09-10
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> This seems too complex. Models are trained to use subagents. Maybe I should make the main thread supervisor and use a worker thread. Main thread smart model, fewer tokens. Subagent dumber but more tokens.
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> If we get this right it would result in simple editable prompts, clear and easier code, etc.
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On the Nicobailon fleet viewer:
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> Yeah, it's ugly, hard to read. Just plain text, no syntax highlighting or even formatting.
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When should the supervisor review?
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> Q1: 1) on stop (without process or subagent running) 2) every 60 minutes 3) on check of or change in plan.
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> Note, if we want to be simple we can use pi-scheduled prompt to tell supervisor to check in?
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> How will supervisor view subagent in a token-efficient way?
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Who owns the plan and completion?
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> Q2: hmm, I was thinking the worker does, but yeah, in this model maybe the supervisor... it's just I wanted an independent check where the supervisor is on a Ralph loop and has perspective, perhaps read-only (or partial).
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On patching packages:
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> Q3: yes, we can patch if needed, hopefully we don't need to.
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> If we have to patch, it might be easier to patch or extend the main subagent packages, idk.
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On seeing the real worker Pi pane:
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> Oh, I see the subagent go, it's looking good so far.
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Asked whether the worker view must allow direct interaction (typing messages, interrupting, using `/model` and `/tree`):
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> Yes, I do.
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On simplicity and visible status:
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> Keep it simple and robust, that's why I thought pi-schedule-prompt might help, but maybe it will add complexity, idk. It's good for a user to be able to see if it's connected and so on.
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On reviewing completed supervisor/worker pairs:
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> And at the end I want to be able to see the tokens used in supervisor and worker. And to be able to have you find pairs, with the versions or commit used, and inspect them for how well they behaved. This will be a script in the fork.
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On proceeding with the whole normal Pi worker interface:
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> I do want the whole normal [Pi interface].
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> Let's do that.
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-- wassname (spelling and punctuation corrected by Pi/OpenAI; bracketed words supply context)
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Pi/OpenAI decision record: proceed with edxeth's full interactive worker UI and validate supervision/recovery before replacing global settings. A formatted transcript-only viewer does not satisfy the request.
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On supervisor plan ownership:
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> Maybe the supervisor can just approve or deny worker edits to the plan? Or, okay, yeah, let's start permissive, sure.
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-- wassname (spelling and punctuation corrected by Pi/OpenAI)
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Pi/OpenAI decision record: start permissive. The supervisor may edit the plan and approve completion, while the worker implements and records evidence. The supervisor independently inspects results; it must not weaken the agreed goal to accept the worker's output. Keep normal tools available and express the division of work in editable prompts. The user confirmed proceeding with "so yes, do it". The workflow above describes the current implementation, not a requirement to retain its two-step approval mechanism.
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## Supervisor behavior preferences
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Recorded by Pi/OpenAI from wassname's instructions.
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@@ -0,0 +1,13 @@
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# Abandoned persistent-worker experiment
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User decision: use the short `experiment/main-supervisor-edxeth` prototype with unmodified edxeth. Preserve this experiment as WIP, not an accepted runtime change.
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`changes.patch` captures tracked and new source/tests from the local edxeth checkout against upstream `953c6f6d2fc7d8a5c956c30cd77c51bad697c2a4` (v2.9.0). It includes unfinished validation repairs. It is not installed or recommended for application.
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Observed before work stopped: 14 focused tests passed. Full-suite cancellation, compiler validation and fresh live validation were unresolved in the last completed worker report. Later partial test repairs were stopped by the parent when scope changed; do not infer acceptance from these files.
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Original checkout retained at `/home/code/.pi/agent/git/github.com/wassname/pi-subagents-visible-worker`, branch `experiment/persistent-interactive-worker`. Private/machine-only files and dependencies are excluded. The source patch is archived in pi-goals so preserving it does not require creating a second remote repository.
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Next direction: model choice in the plan, installed pi-schedule-prompt for visible hourly checks, small plan-review notifications, source-check existing Intercom/messaging compatibility before adding code, and reuse existing token displays first.
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-- Pi/OpenAI
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File diff suppressed because it is too large
Load Diff
@@ -0,0 +1,14 @@
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> @wassname2/pi-goals@0.2.2 test
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> vitest run
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RUN v4.1.9 /home/code/.pi/agent/git/github.com/wassname/pi-goals
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fatal: not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
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Test Files 22 passed (22)
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Tests 165 passed (165)
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Start at 11:35:07
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Duration 9.51s (transform 4.40s, setup 0ms, import 9.86s, tests 16.76s, environment 3ms)
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# Main supervisor and visible worker
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## Superseded implementation direction
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Wassname chose the shorter remote prototype `experiment/main-supervisor-edxeth` (`fb5503f`) and unmodified edxeth. Stop the runtime patch effort; preserve it as WIP in [the patch archive](../patches/abandoned-edxeth-persistent-worker/README.md). The checklist below is historical, not instructions to continue the fork.
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Approved next work: commit/push this attempt, switch to that prototype, specify worker model in the plan, use installed pi-schedule-prompt for visible hourly check-ins, and add small plan-change review notifications. Check existing edxeth live messaging and Intercom/pi-messaging compatibility with a subagent before choosing any integration. Use existing token displays first; defer custom reporting. -- Pi/OpenAI
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Use a strong main Pi supervisor and cheaper workers with the whole normal Pi interface. Preserve independent judgment while removing duplicated orchestration code. User wording and open decisions: [AGENTS.md](../../AGENTS.md#user-voice-redesign-discussion-2026-09-10).
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1. [/] goal: Use a full interactive worker without losing autonomous supervision
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- [x] Open an isolated edxeth trial without installing or changing global settings; user has seen the worker UI.
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- [ ] Test direct interaction, `/model`, `/tree`, fast completion, reload/resume, and a stopped worker with background work.
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- [ ] Keep the worker available for human interaction while delivering its stopped-turn result; distinguish an open Pi pane from active work.
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- [ ] Reproduce lifecycle failures before patching the subagent package; do not rebuild its runtime inside pi-goals.
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- likely failure: direct interaction or completion closes the pane or loses the parent notification.
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- subtle failure mode: supervisor waits for human input, or claims completion while worker jobs still run.
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- discriminator: saved sessions show automatic parent review after work settles, plus normal worker interaction and recovery without duplicate work.
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- deliverable: usable test panes and a source-linked lifecycle review in `slop/reviews/`.
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2. [ ] goal: Keep independent supervisor judgment with less execution detail
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- [ ] Review on stop with no active worker processes/subagents, every 60 minutes, and on plan checks or changes.
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- [ ] Choose the simplest hourly wake, evaluating session-bound `pi-schedule-prompt` without a model override; cancel reminders when supervision ends.
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- [ ] Show factual worker/review/delivery status. Use concise updates and evidence paths; inspect the actual files when needed.
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- [ ] Keep prompts editable and reuse existing compaction; no extra summarizing agent.
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- [x] Start permissive as approved: supervisor edits the plan and approves completion after independent inspection; worker implements and records evidence. Keep normal tools and editable role prompts.
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- likely failure: supervisor takes over implementation or needs the human to restart unfinished work.
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- subtle failure mode: short worker summaries hide a wrong result and the supervisor accepts it without inspection.
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- discriminator: supervisor rejects a plausible wrong artifact, explains the evidence, and gets the worker to correct it; separate session usage shows where tokens went.
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- deliverable: editable prompts and a recorded independent review/correction cycle.
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3. [ ] goal: Reduce pi-goals to planning and goal review
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- [ ] Preserve plan files and explicit Ready; remove replaced transport, launching, worker views, and model state after the trial passes.
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- [ ] Replace Nicobailon-specific status assumptions with the selected runtime's actual activity contract.
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- [ ] Update tests and current documentation; then replace the old global subagent package after the successful trial, never load both together.
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- likely failure: old and new runtimes conflict or stale commands remain advertised.
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- subtle failure mode: code moves into a new wrapper without reducing duplicated responsibilities.
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- discriminator: one subagent runtime owns workers; the deletion diff and real end-to-end session demonstrate retained behavior.
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- verify: `npm test && npm run typecheck && npm run lint` with full output saved.
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- deliverable: reviewed branch diff and working two-model setup.
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4. [ ] goal: Find and inspect supervisor/worker pairs with separate usage and code provenance
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- [ ] Add a script in the subagent fork to list pairs and inspect their sessions, behavior evidence, and input/output/cache token usage.
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- [ ] Record Pi/package versions, tested source commits and dirty changes at launch; mark unrecoverable historical information unknown.
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- likely failure: worker sessions cannot be matched to their supervisor or resumed runs disappear.
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- subtle failure mode: parent totals already include worker usage, or a clean commit label hides uncommitted tested code.
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- discriminator: script finds the real trial pair, matches raw per-session usage without double counting, and identifies its tested code and interventions.
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- deliverable: runnable pair-inspection script, focused tests, and a saved report for the trial pair.
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## UAT / Verification
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- Use only parent-created test panes and a temporary Git repo; never interrupt the user's other projects. Show normal worker UI, direct interaction, independent correction, and reload/resume.
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- Exercise all three review triggers, using a short test-only hour interval then inspecting the configured 60-minute value; run the pair-inspection script on these sessions.
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- Save both session paths, pane captures, actual artifact and verification output, versions, token usage, and every manual intervention. A UI preview or receipt is not autonomous success.
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- Diagnose exact failures from both sessions, patch the responsible component, and repeat the failed scenario. Keep unresolved behavior explicit.
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## Appendix (context, not approved)
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Branch: `experiment/main-supervisor-visible-worker`, based on `2a7c490`. Existing unrelated dirty files are preserved. [Initial trial and interview](../reviews/20260910_edxeth_ui_trial/notes.md). Wassname approved proceeding with "sounds good"; isolated lifecycle validation is first. Wassname then approved permissive supervisor plan/completion ownership and implementation with "so yes, do it". Lifecycle reports: [observed test](../reviews/20260910_edxeth_ui_trial/interactive-lifecycle.md), [runtime and pair-script contract](../reviews/20260910_edxeth_ui_trial/minimal-runtime-contract.md).
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-- Pi/OpenAI
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# Visible Pi worker extensions
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Question: can a strong main Pi session supervise a cheaper, visible worker Pi session, with prompts that can be edited as files?
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## Observations
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### edxeth/pi-subagents — <https://github.com/edxeth/pi-subagents>
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- The README states: "Interactive children open in Herdr, cmux, tmux, zellij, or WezTerm; background children run headlessly."
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- Its `Orchestrator` mode removes the parent's file and shell tools. `src/runtime/orchestrator-prompt.ts` says: "You are an orchestrator ... You do not inspect files, run commands, edit code, or perform implementation work yourself."
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- Agent definitions are Markdown files in `.pi/agents/` or the global Pi agent directory. Their frontmatter contains `model`, `mode`, `tools`, and `session-mode`. Thus a project can keep its worker prompt and cheap-worker model in one editable file.
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- The package requires Pi `>=0.85.0`; the observed local Pi version is `0.85.1`. Interactive Herdr placement is source-tested (`scripts/test-live-herdr-*.mjs`).
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- GitHub API observation: 120 stars; 5 non-bot contributors; created 2026-04-16; latest code commit 2026-09-07; 2 open / 23 closed issues.
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- Risk: this package uses the npm name `pi-subagents`, which is also the name of the installed Nicobailon extension. The two export overlapping tools. They should not be loaded together.
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### giuseppecrj/pi-herdr-agents — <https://github.com/giuseppecrj/pi-herdr-agents>
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- The README states: "Each child runs as a real Pi process in its own Herdr surface" and documents non-blocking result delivery, live child state, and model-bearing role files.
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- This is a smaller, Herdr-only alternative. It supplies visible worker panes, but static source inspection did not find the strict delegation-only parent role that `edxeth/pi-subagents` provides.
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- GitHub API observation: 18 stars; 2 non-bot contributors; created 2026-08-05; latest code commit 2026-09-09; 5 open / 40 closed issues. Its declared peers are unconstrained, although development dependencies target Pi 0.84, so Pi 0.85.1 compatibility is not directly declared.
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### tintinweb/pi-subagents — <https://github.com/tintinweb/pi-subagents>
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- The README documents a FleetView and a "live, auto-updating conversation" overlay with steering. This is close if one TUI view is sufficient, but it is not a separately switchable worker Pi pane.
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- It supports Pi `>=0.84.0`. GitHub API observation: 1,111 stars; 27 non-bot contributors; latest code commit 2026-09-03; 54 open / 46 closed issues.
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### Installed nicobailon/pi-subagents — <https://github.com/nicobailon/pi-subagents>
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- The README documents `/subagents-fleet`: "browse children, read transcripts, steer a running child, or stop a run." This corrects the narrower claim that it cannot expose worker activity, but it remains an inspector/overlay rather than an independent Pi terminal surface.
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- GitHub API observation: 3,518 stars; latest code commit 2026-09-09. It is already installed locally.
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## Inference
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`edxeth/pi-subagents` is the closest existing implementation (very probable, about 90%): it directly combines a strict main-session coordinator with an interactive real Pi worker in a Herdr pane, per-role models, and Markdown agent prompts. It is a better simplification target than adding another supervisor process to `pi-goals`.
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Important gap: its parent orchestrator prompt is bundled in TypeScript, though Pi's `APPEND_SYSTEM.md` can extend it. The role prompt of the worker is directly editable as `.pi/agents/worker.md`. It does not promise a bespoke compaction policy such as "every 150k"; child sessions use Pi's native compaction plus its own context-warning policy.
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Static source and metadata inspection only; no candidate was installed or executed.
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-- PI[openai-codex]
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---
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requested_model: z-ai/glm-5.3-flash
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max_tokens: 4000
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final_tokens: 20000
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reasoning_effort: low
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input_bytes: 5103
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trace: /home/code/.pi/agent/git/github.com/wassname/pi-goals/slop/reviews/2026-09-10_glm-5.3-flash_moa_brainstorm_glm_pi_goals_simplicity.trace.jsonl
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generated: 2026-09-10T00:43:46.736035+00:00
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---
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# bounded completion
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## First call reasoning
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Brainstorm: architectural reductions, discriminating checks, no winner. Be concise but cover compaction, supervisor visibility, recovery, retained context; include implementation error, objective mismatch, unintended learning dynamic with falsifiable predictions.
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## First call answer
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# `pi-goals` simplification brainstorm — independent, no winner
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## Reconstruction (observed vs. inferred)
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**Observed:** two visible sessions; explicit plan state machine; recent fixes are mostly *edge-case patches* (retry bounds, retained steer, benign-error whitelists, threshold skips); compaction logic is duplicated in worker and supervisor with three separate guard conditions; recovery currently requires session reload.
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**Inferred:** the system's complexity is concentrated exactly where the Pi core API is ambiguous (token estimates, compaction errors, disconnection states). The fixes treat symptoms of one root ambiguity: *the code reasons about context size it cannot actually observe, and about liveness it cannot actually verify.*
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---
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## Candidate reductions
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### R1 — Delete pre-emptive compaction entirely; compact reactively on provider failure only
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**Mechanism (implementation error candidate):** token counts are estimates; a wrong threshold either wastes a compaction (losing supervisor-facing detail) or misses, and the benign-error whitelist (`Already compacted` / `Nothing to compact`) converts a *miswired call* into silence. Falsifiable prediction: if the 100k estimate is ever wrong by >15%, the supervisor inherits a truncated plan that still passes sign-off because the compaction summary restates the plan header.
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**Cheapest check:** in one isolated UAT, log the *actual* session entry count before/after each `ctx.compact` call vs. the estimated token figure. If estimated-100k sessions compact "nothing" while estimated-95k sessions compact real content, the threshold is measuring noise.
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**What this removes:** three guard branches, two error whitelists, `compactApprovedWorker` as a concept.
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### R2 — Single source of truth: the plan document *is* the recovery state
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**Mechanism (objective mismatch candidate):** the supervisor's implicit objective ("retain judgment") is implemented as "retain transcript," so it must survive disconnects via handshakes and retries. If the objective were "retain the signed-off plan + latest steer," the transcript becomes disposable. Falsifiable prediction: after any crash/restart of *either* session, a plan-doc-only recovery reproduces the same next decision as full-transcript recovery in ≥90% of UAT replays; where it differs, the difference is always in unverifiable narrative, not judgment.
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**Cheapest check:** run one UAT, kill the supervisor mid-review, restart it with only the plan file + last steer. Compare its next action to a recorded full-context control run.
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**What this removes:** pi-intercom handshake/recovery retry logic, bounded hello retry, "retained newest disconnected steer" as special state — it's just the plan file's last field.
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### R3 — Ended worker session = loud terminal state, not a recovery path
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**Mechanism (unintended learning/behavioral dynamic candidate):** the supervisor's repeated long status narration during failed delivery looks like an agent *learning* that narration substitutes for action (it receives its own narration back as evidence of work). The current fix (keep latest instruction) addresses the queue, not the loop. Falsifiable prediction: supervisors that fail delivery once generate longer subsequent status messages than controls that never failed — narration length grows with failed attempts.
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**Cheapest check:** diff supervisor message lengths before vs. after one injected failed send in an isolated Herdr run. If length grows monotonically, R3's deletion of retry-narration (replace with a single "delivery failed, worker ended" terminal banner) is warranted.
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**What this removes:** overnight-instruction queueing; reload/restart becomes the *only* documented path, made loud rather than silent.
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### R4 — Unify "solo" and "supervised" into: plan is approved or it isn't
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Falsifiable prediction: `CompleteGoal` blocked in solo is equivalent to "no recorded sign-off exists" — i.e., the `solo|supervised` mode flag never changes a decision that the sign-off ledger doesn't already determine. **Check:** grep the codebase for decisions keyed on mode that don't transitively depend on a sign-off or supervisor-liveness fact; if none, delete the mode enum. **Removes:** `supervised | solo` state, loud-solo-fallback special case (falls out of "no sign-off + no supervisor heartbeat = blocked, loudly").
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||||
---
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## Cross-cutting discriminating check (one run covers R1–R4)
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One isolated Herdr UAT with instrumentation logging: (a) token estimate vs. actual entries at each compact, (b) supervisor output length per turn, (c) every state-machine transition with its cause. The three predictions above are all falsifiable from this single trace plus the kill-and-restart experiment.
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**Explicitly not done:** no compaction extension assumptions, no queue, no winner. R1–R4 are independent deletions; each stands or falls on its own check.
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## Completion
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||||
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- outcome: `complete`
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||||
- trace: `/home/code/.pi/agent/git/github.com/wassname/pi-goals/slop/reviews/2026-09-10_glm-5.3-flash_moa_brainstorm_glm_pi_goals_simplicity.trace.jsonl`
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+1072
File diff suppressed because one or more lines are too long
@@ -0,0 +1,150 @@
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---
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requested_model: moonshotai/kimi-k3
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max_tokens: 4000
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final_tokens: 20000
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reasoning_effort: low
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input_bytes: 5103
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trace: /home/code/.pi/agent/git/github.com/wassname/pi-goals/slop/reviews/2026-09-10_kimi-k3_moa_brainstorm_kimi_pi_goals_simplicity.trace.jsonl
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generated: 2026-09-10T00:43:46.736079+00:00
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---
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# bounded completion
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## First call reasoning
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Let me analyze this carefully. This is a bounded decision request asking for an independent scientific brainstorm about how `pi-goals` (a Pi extension providing a worker/supervisor architecture) can become simpler and more robust while preserving user preferences.
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The task: propose distinct mechanisms including an implementation error, an objective/gradient mismatch, and an unintended learning dynamic. For each: falsifiable prediction and cheapest discriminating check. State observed vs inferred. Do not choose a winner.
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Wait — "objective or gradient mismatch" and "unintended learning dynamic" — these are ML-flavored framings, but this is a software architecture question. The system prompt says "Reconstruct the situation from the supplied evidence. Propose distinct mechanisms, including an implementation error, an objective or gradient mismatch, and an unintended learning dynamic when relevant." Hmm — this seems like a template applied across domains. For a software system, "gradient mismatch" translates to incentive/objective mismatch — the policy objective vs. actual behavior; "learning dynamic" translates to feedback loops / state evolution dynamics where repeated behavior drifts (e.g., status narration spiraling). I should map these onto the software domain sensibly: implementation error (bug), objective mismatch (policy encodes the wrong objective), unintended dynamics (feedback loop in the session state machine, e.g., repeated status narration, compaction thrash).
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Let me reconstruct:
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|
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**System**: `pi-goals` extension. One worker Pi session, one visible supervisor Pi session (fork) in a Herdr pane. Supervisor retains judgment cheaply (less context, compaction at startup), worker keeps full context.
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**Preferences** (AGENTS.md): supervisor visible thinking/messages; autonomous supervision; inspect evidence; steer through worker not take over; normal tools preserved; short judgmental recaps not repeated status.
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||||
**Current state machine**: plan state `planning | working`, `supervised | solo`, approval binding, plan version, sign-offs, model role manager, intercom handshake/recovery.
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|
||||
**Recent fixes**: safe bare `/goals`; explicit plan replacement; bounded hello retry (1+2); retained newest disconnected steer; paired signed-off plans; loud solo fallback only after approved plan + supervisor failure; CompleteGoal blocked in solo.
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||||
**Compaction**: worker <100k known → skip; ≥100k → compact before forking supervisor; supervisor skips second compaction if inherited ends with compaction entry or <100k; unknown usage → attempt compaction, treat "Already compacted"/"Nothing to compact" as benign. Supervisor also compacts own settled turns at 100k.
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**Observed issues**:
|
||||
1. UAT: "Nothing to compact (session too small)" printed despite continuation — a visible error that confused; fixed with threshold skip. Suggests error classification is fragile (string matching on error messages) and that the code was attempting compaction unnecessarily on small sessions.
|
||||
2. Supervisor tried to send overnight instruction after worker disconnected; repeated long status narration; couldn't deliver. New code keeps latest instruction and replays on reconnect; ended worker needs reload/restart.
|
||||
3. Rate limits can look stuck; compaction can time out. Timeout ≠ permanent failure. Policy: preserve plan, loud eventual solo fallback; don't infer approval from draft/cancellation/plan change/model error.
|
||||
|
||||
**Constraints**: keep two visible sessions; separate read-only-by-role supervisor; explicit approval + evidence sign-off; prefer deletion and single source of truth; no silent model substitution; don't pretend delivery/recovery; no particular queue/compaction extension; testable in small isolated Herdr; identify what can be removed.
|
||||
|
||||
**Deliverables**:
|
||||
- Architectural reductions
|
||||
- Distinct mechanisms: implementation error, objective mismatch, unintended dynamic
|
||||
- For each: falsifiable prediction + cheapest discriminating check
|
||||
- Observed vs inferred
|
||||
- No winner
|
||||
- Decision stated, strongest objection, next check (per system prompt — but the system prompt also says "Do not choose a winner" via the question. The system prompt says "state the decision, strongest objection, and next check." Hmm — tension. The question says "Do not choose a winner." The system prompt says state the decision. I can reconcile: the decision requested is *how to approach simplification* — i.e., propose reductions and discriminating checks; the "decision" I can state is a bounded recommendation of which reductions are candidates, while explicitly not choosing among the causal mechanisms. Or interpret "the decision" as the answer to the question: the set of proposed reductions. I'll state the decision as: adopt deletion-first reductions gated on discriminating checks, and enumerate candidate mechanisms without ranking them as causes. Actually, better: state a bounded decision like "the safest reduction set is X, but which failure mechanism dominates is undecided — here's the check." That satisfies both.
|
||||
|
||||
Let me now think substantively about the architecture.
|
||||
|
||||
### Architectural reduction candidates
|
||||
|
||||
1. **Single source of truth for compaction decisions.** Currently compaction logic is spread: `compactApprovedWorker` in index.ts, supervisor startup skip logic in supervisor-session.ts, threshold constant 100k duplicated implicitly, error classification by string matching. Reduction: one module/function `shouldCompact(usage)` returning `skip | compact | attempt-benign`, used by both worker pre-fork and supervisor startup. Even better: **delete the unknown-usage compaction attempt entirely** — if usage is unknown, don't compact; compaction is only needed to fit the supervisor fork cheaply, and if usage is unknown, attempting and swallowing string-matched errors is fragile. Cheapest check: remove unknown-usage attempt, run UAT with unknown usage, confirm no error and supervisor still functions. But risk: unknown usage could be huge → supervisor fork inherits huge context → expensive. Alternative: when unknown, treat as ≥100k and compact but rely on Pi API error types rather than message strings... but the code "only uses the Pi API" — if Pi API doesn't expose typed errors, string matching is all there is. Prediction: if error classification is string-based, any Pi version changing message text breaks benign classification → visible failures. Check: unit-test classifier against both message variants; grep Pi's error strings.
|
||||
|
||||
2. **Compaction ownership: supervisor's own settled-turn compaction at 100k** duplicates worker logic. Reduction: the supervisor could reuse the same threshold function. Or delete supervisor-side compaction entirely and let Pi's native compaction handle it? Constraint says code depends only on Pi API and ordinary compaction events — supervisor compaction at settled turns 100k is custom. Is it needed? The supervisor is supposed to be cheap and retain judgment. Maybe keep but unify.
|
||||
|
||||
3. **State machine reduction**: `planning | working` × `supervised | solo` + approval binding + plan version + sign-offs + role manager + handshake/recovery. This is a lot of orthogonal state. Reduction: collapse to a single immutable plan record: `{ objective, version, approval?: {evidence, signoff, supervisorId}, status: draft|approved|complete }` and derive mode: `mode = approved ? (supervisorAlive ? supervised-working : loud-solo) : planning`. I.e., **derive, don't store** — solo/supervised as derived from liveness + approval, not stored flags that can desync. Falsifiable: desync bugs (stored solo flag persisting after supervisor reconnect) disappear if derived. Check: after supervisor reconnect, does code path that reads mode recompute it? Test: kill supervisor, reconnect, verify mode flips without manual reset.
|
||||
|
||||
4. **Recovery reduction**: retained newest disconnected steer + replay after reconnect + ended session requires reload. Instead of a retained-steer buffer, make steering idempotent: the steer is just the latest supervisor message; on reconnect, worker re-reads the plan record which contains pending supervisor directive. One source of truth: the plan record, not a separate buffer. Check: disconnect mid-steer, reconnect, verify exactly-once delivery and no duplication with the buffer removed.
|
||||
|
||||
5. **Handshake reduction**: bounded hello retry (1+2). Could be deleted in favor of deriving readiness from the fork event/stream — if Pi emits a settled/first-token event, wait for that rather than hello handshake. Check: remove hello, rely on session-ready event; UAT Ready→visible supervisor timing. But "do not request files or defer" — fine, this is a proposal.
|
||||
|
||||
### Mechanisms (three required genres)
|
||||
|
||||
**A. Implementation error (bug class)**: Error-classification by string matching (`Already compacted` / `Nothing to compact`) — observed fact 7 shows the error surfaced visibly *despite continuation* before the threshold skip, meaning the "benign" acceptance either wasn't hit on that path or the error was logged by Pi core itself (visible print) rather than thrown to the extension. Note the nuance: the error was *visibly printed by Pi* — "Pi visibly printed Error: Compaction failed" — so the extension may have accepted it as benign, but Pi's own logging surfaced it to the user. That's an observed/inferred split: observed = error text appeared; inferred = it came from Pi core logging, not extension. The threshold skip masks rather than fixes the classification fragility. Falsifiable prediction: on a Pi version that rewords these errors (e.g., "nothing to compact" lowercase, or localized), the benign path fails and compaction errors propagate or retry storms occur. Cheapest check: grep Pi's installed source for the exact strings; run a tiny session under the threshold boundary and an unknown-usage session; assert the extension's classifier matches Pi's actual error text. Also: supervisor startup skip checks "inherited context ends in a compaction entry" — an ordering assumption; if any entry appends after compaction (e.g., a system note), the skip fails and a second compaction runs. Prediction: append a post-compaction entry → supervisor double-compacts. Check: fork with inherited compaction + one trailing entry; count compact calls.
|
||||
|
||||
**B. Objective/gradient mismatch (policy encodes wrong objective)**: The supervisor's behavioral objective as prompted — "supervise autonomously, inspect evidence, steer" — combined with delivery-obligation (retained steer, replay) can produce **delivery-attempt narration**: fact 8 shows repeated long status narration when it could not deliver. The policy treats "supervisor must act/steer" as the objective, but the user preference is "short judgmental recaps rather than repeated unchanged status." So the mismatch: the system optimizes for *attempted steering / visible activity* rather than *information gain per token*. The threshold skip is another example: the objective "avoid compaction errors" was met by skipping compaction, but the actual objective should be "don't surface noise; compact only when needed for cost" — the fix optimized error suppression not correctness (it masks classification fragility). Also "loud solo fallback" vs "must not infer approval": timeout ≠ failure, yet a timeout-triggered solo fallback *is* an inference from ambiguous evidence — the policy must choose a decision threshold; current policy (preserve plan, loud fallback) is fine but the *trigger* conditions (what counts as supervisor failure vs slow) are a mismatch risk: treating rate-limit-stuck as failure flips to solo, which then blocks CompleteGoal — a supervisor that's merely slow degrades the whole workflow. Falsifiable prediction: inject a slow-but-alive supervisor (rate-limit delay); system flips to solo and CompleteGoal becomes blocked even though supervisor later approves — or, if fallback is only manual, no flip occurs; check which. Cheapest check: UAT with a delayed supervisor response (sleep injection), observe mode transitions and whether approval after timeout is accepted or rejected.
|
||||
|
||||
**C. Unintended learning/feedback dynamic (state evolution loop)**: No gradient learning here, but dynamic analogs: (1) **Narration spiral**: supervisor can't deliver → generates status → status consumes context → supervisor compacts at 100k → compaction may time out (fact 9) → more failure → more narration. A positive feedback loop where failure increases the supervisor's own context pressure, increasing future failure probability. (2) **Compaction thrash**: supervisor compacts own settled turns at 100k; each compaction summary plus recap grows toward threshold again; with "recaps that repeat plan outcome" the context re-approaches 100k cyclically, and each compaction risks timeout; unknown-usage attempts add benign-error noise. (3) **Retained-steer replay**: on reconnect, replay of newest steer + supervisor seeing replayed steer may re-generate another steer, which gets retained, replayed... a steer regeneration loop if delivery state isn't recorded. Falsifiable prediction: with a worker that disconnects for N minutes and supervisor that narrates on each failed delivery, supervisor token usage grows superlinearly and compaction events cluster; after fix (deliver-or-defer single attempt, quiet), narration count per disconnect window = ≤1. Cheapest check: scripted disconnect scenario, count supervisor messages and compaction events with timestamps; check for replayed-steer duplication in worker log (same steer id twice).
|
||||
|
||||
### Observed vs inferred
|
||||
|
||||
Observed: facts 1–10, excerpts. Inferred: error came from Pi core logging; narration spiral causal loop; desync risk of stored mode flags; the threshold skip masking classifier fragility; supervisor-side settled-turn compaction being redundant.
|
||||
|
||||
### Strongest objection
|
||||
|
||||
To the deletion-first reduction: deleting stored mode flags and handshake/retained-steer machinery removes explicit recovery guarantees — derived state can't distinguish "supervisor never started" from "supervisor died," and deleting the bounded hello could regress the Ready→visible-supervisor UAT. Also unknown-usage compaction deletion risks an expensive giant fork. And constraint: "do not pretend recovery succeeded" — deletion must not weaken the loud fallback.
|
||||
|
||||
### Next check
|
||||
|
||||
The single cheapest discriminating experiment: an isolated Herdr UAT matrix of 4 cells: {known <100k, known ≥100k, unknown usage} × {normal, supervisor-delayed} — count compaction calls, visible errors, mode transitions, approval acceptance. Or simpler: the disconnect/narration count test. Pick one: I'd say the smallest is the compaction-call counting test across the three usage states since it needs no fault injection, just instrumentation (log every ctx.compact call + every visible error). That discriminates mechanism A. For B/C need delay/disconnect injection. Recommend ordering: instrument first (cheap, read-only), then fault injection.
|
||||
|
||||
Also: propose concrete deletions list:
|
||||
- Delete: unknown-usage compaction attempt (or reduce to "log and proceed").
|
||||
- Delete: duplicated threshold logic → one function.
|
||||
- Delete: stored `supervised | solo` flag → derive from supervisor liveness + approval presence.
|
||||
- Delete: separate retained-steer buffer → fold pending directive into plan record (single source of truth).
|
||||
- Possibly delete: supervisor startup inherited-compaction ordering check → replace with explicit marker/metadata passed at fork time (the worker knows it just compacted; pass a boolean rather than inspecting entry ordering). That's a nice reduction: replace inference-from-transcript with explicit handoff state. Prediction: fork marker removes ordering fragility; check: append trailing entry, confirm no double compaction.
|
||||
- Handshake: keep bounded hello but derive readiness from intercom ack event rather than retry count? Or keep — it's already bounded. The retry (1+2) could be deleted in favor of: supervisor announces readiness as its first visible message (which is required anyway by visibility preference) — the hello is then observable, not a separate protocol. Merge handshake into the mandatory visible opening.
|
||||
|
||||
Also the "model role manager" — unclear what it does; flag as candidate for deletion if it duplicates Pi's own model selection; constraint says don't silently substitute models.
|
||||
|
||||
Format: This needs headers, structured. Length: substantial but bounded. Use sections: Reconstruction; Observed vs inferred; Candidate reductions (deletion-first); Mechanisms A/B/C each with prediction + cheapest check; Strongest objection; Next check. Maybe a small table for mechanisms. Keep it tight. No choosing a winner — present mechanisms as competing, note what evidence would discriminate.
|
||||
|
||||
The system prompt asks to "state the decision" — I'll state: the decision supported by evidence alone is to adopt the deletion-first reduction set (they're low-regret regardless of which mechanism dominates), while the causal attribution among A/B/C remains open pending checks. That's the bounded decision. Strongest objection to that. Next check.
|
||||
|
||||
Let me draft.
|
||||
|
||||
Word budget: this is complex; ~900–1300 words. Use headers and compact bullets. A table for mechanisms could work well.
|
||||
## First call answer
|
||||
|
||||
# Reconstruction (observed vs. inferred)
|
||||
|
||||
**Observed:** A two-session worker/supervisor extension with explicit plan state, approval binding, handshake/recovery, and threshold-based compaction at 100k. Three field anomalies: (1) a visible `Nothing to compact` error from Pi on a small session, suppressed by a threshold skip; (2) an undeliverable overnight steer producing repeated long status narration; (3) rate limits and compaction timeouts that are indistinguishable from stuckness.
|
||||
|
||||
**Inferred (not observed):** that the visible compaction error originated in Pi core logging rather than extension failure; that stored mode flags can desync from liveness; that narration forms a feedback loop with compaction pressure; that the threshold skip masks a fragile error classifier rather than fixing one.
|
||||
|
||||
# Candidate architectural reductions (deletion-first)
|
||||
|
||||
1. **One compaction oracle.** Collapse the threshold constant, the worker pre-fork path, the supervisor startup skip, and the unknown-usage attempt into a single `shouldCompact(usage): skip | compact` used by both sessions. Delete the unknown-usage compaction attempt: it exists only to be swallowed, and its error classification is string matching. If usage is unknown, log loudly and proceed; a too-large fork is a cost problem, not a correctness problem.
|
||||
2. **Replace inference-from-transcript with explicit handoff.** The supervisor startup skip inspects whether inherited context *ends in* a compaction entry — an ordering assumption. The worker knows whether it just compacted; pass a boolean at fork time. Delete the transcript-tail inspection.
|
||||
3. **Derive mode, don't store it.** `supervised | solo` and `planning | working` are stored flags that can desync from supervisor liveness and approval state. Derive: `mode = approved(plan) ? (supervisorAlive ? supervised : loud-solo) : planning`. One immutable plan record `{objective, version, approval{evidence, signoff}, status}` is the single source of truth.
|
||||
4. **Fold the retained-steer buffer into the plan record.** A separate newest-steer buffer is a second source of truth for "what the supervisor wants." Store the pending directive (with a delivery marker) on the plan record; replay is then re-reading state, not a queue.
|
||||
5. **Merge the handshake into the mandatory visible opening.** The supervisor must visibly announce itself anyway (user preference). Its first visible message *is* the readiness signal; the separate hello + two retries can be deleted or reduced to "wait for first settled turn."
|
||||
6. **Interrogate the model role manager.** If it duplicates Pi's own model selection, delete it; the constraint against silent model substitution argues for less machinery here, not more.
|
||||
|
||||
# Competing mechanisms
|
||||
|
||||
| # | Mechanism | Class | Falsifiable prediction | Cheapest
|
||||
## Final answer call answer
|
||||
|
||||
# Reconstruction (observed vs. inferred)
|
||||
|
||||
**Observed:** A two-session worker/supervisor extension with explicit plan state, approval binding, handshake/recovery, and 100k-threshold compaction. Three field anomalies: (1) a visible `Nothing to compact` error on a small session, suppressed by a threshold skip; (2) an undeliverable overnight steer producing repeated long status narration; (3) rate limits and compaction timeouts indistinguishable from stuckness.
|
||||
|
||||
**Inferred (not observed):** that the compaction error logging originates in Pi core, not extension failure; that stored mode flags can desync from actual liveness; that narration forms a feedback loop with compaction pressure; that the threshold skip masks a fragile error classifier rather than fixing one.
|
||||
|
||||
# Candidate architectural reductions (deletion-first)
|
||||
|
||||
1. **One compaction oracle.** Collapse the 100k constant, worker pre-fork path, supervisor startup skip, and unknown-usage attempt into a single `shouldCompact(usage): skip | compact` used by both sessions. Delete the unknown-usage compaction attempt — it exists only to be swallowed via string-matching on `Already compacted` / `Nothing to compact`. If usage is unknown, log loudly and proceed; an oversized fork is a cost problem, not a correctness problem.
|
||||
2. **Replace inference-from-transcript with explicit handoff.** The supervisor startup skip inspects whether inherited context *ends in* a compaction entry — an ordering assumption. The worker knows whether it just compacted; pass a boolean at fork time. Delete the transcript-tail inspection.
|
||||
3. **Derive mode, don't store it.** `supervised | solo` and `planning | working` are stored flags that can desync from supervisor liveness and approval state. Derive: `mode = approved(plan) ? (supervisorAlive ? supervised : loud-solo) : planning`. One immutable plan record `{objective, version, approval{evidence, signoff}, status}` is the single source of truth.
|
||||
4. **Fold the retained-steer buffer into the plan record.** A separate newest-steer buffer is a second source of truth for "what the supervisor wants." Store the pending directive (with a delivery marker) on the plan record; replay is then re-reading state, not a queue.
|
||||
5. **Merge the handshake into the mandatory visible opening.** The supervisor must visibly announce itself anyway (user preference). Its first visible message *is* the readiness signal; the separate hello + two retries can be deleted or reduced to "wait for first settled turn."
|
||||
6. **Interrogate the model role manager.** If it duplicates Pi's own model selection, delete it; the constraint against silent model substitution argues for less machinery here, not more.
|
||||
|
||||
# Competing mechanisms
|
||||
|
||||
| # | Mechanism | Class | Falsifiable prediction | Cheapest discriminating check |
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
||||
| 1 | **String-matched error classification is fragile.** The code swallows `Nothing to compact` / `Already compacted` by matching error text. Pi core may change message wording; the extension then treats benign cases as failures. | Implementation error | Search Pi core source for those exact strings; if they appear in a `throw` path with different surrounding text, or in a localization/template layer, classification breaks. | `grep` Pi core for the two strings; check if they're template literals or constants. If the strings are constructed dynamically, the classifier is brittle. |
|
||||
| 2 | **Threshold skip masks the real compaction signal.** The 100k threshold suppresses compaction attempts on small sessions, but the real failure mode is "Pi core logs an error for a benign no-op." The threshold skip silences the symptom without fixing the classifier. | Objective mismatch (proxy metric) | If the threshold were removed and the classifier made robust, small sessions would attempt compaction, receive `Nothing to compact`, and continue silently. If they instead *fail loudly*, the threshold was load-bearing. | In an isolated Herdr session with < 100k tokens, remove the threshold skip and call `ctx.compact`. Observe whether Pi logs the error or fails the call. |
|
||||
| 3 | **Mode flags desync from liveness.** `supervised | solo` is stored state; if the supervisor process dies or disconnects without updating the flag, the worker may believe it's supervised when it isn't (or vice versa). | Implementation error (state synchronization) | If the stored mode and actual supervisor process liveness can diverge, there exists a sequence where the worker blocks `CompleteGoal` (thinking it's solo) while the supervisor is alive, or allows it (thinking it's supervised) while the supervisor is dead. | In a test, kill the supervisor process without clean shutdown; check whether the worker's stored mode updates. If it doesn't, the flag is stale. |
|
||||
| 4 | **Supervisor narration creates a context-pressure feedback loop.** Repeated long status messages (field report #8) consume supervisor context, pushing it toward the 100k compaction threshold, which triggers compaction, which loses nuance, which may cause more verbose re-explanation. | Unintended learning dynamic (emergent from interaction) | If narration length correlates with time-since-last-compaction, and compaction frequency correlates with narration verbosity, the loop is active. | Log supervisor token usage and narration length over a long session. If they trend upward together and reset after compaction, the loop is confirmed. |
|
||||
| 5 | **Overnight steer failure reveals missing delivery acknowledgment.** The supervisor generated repeated narration because it received no signal that the worker was disconnected. The fix (retain newest steer) is correct but incomplete: the supervisor still doesn't know *whether* delivery succeeded after replay. | Implementation error (missing ack) | If the worker reconnects and the supervisor replays the steer, but the worker has already completed the goal or moved on, the replayed steer is now stale and potentially harmful. | In a test, disconnect the worker, let the supervisor queue a steer, reconnect the worker *after* it would have completed the goal solo, and observe whether the replayed steer causes confusion or incorrect behavior. |
|
||||
| 6 | **Compaction timeout conflated with permanent failure.** Field report #9 notes rate limits and compaction timeouts "can appear stuck." If the supervisor compaction times out and the worker interprets this as supervisor failure, it may incorrectly trigger solo fallback. | Objective mismatch (timeout as proxy for failure) | If a supervisor compaction timeout is followed by eventual success (the compaction completes after the timeout), but the worker has already fallen back to solo, the timeout was misclassified.
|
||||
|
||||
## Completion
|
||||
|
||||
- outcome: `completed_after_follow_up`
|
||||
- trace: `/home/code/.pi/agent/git/github.com/wassname/pi-goals/slop/reviews/2026-09-10_kimi-k3_moa_brainstorm_kimi_pi_goals_simplicity.trace.jsonl`
|
||||
File diff suppressed because one or more lines are too long
@@ -0,0 +1,144 @@
|
||||
# Isolated real Herdr / pi-subagents lifecycle trial
|
||||
|
||||
**Verdict: mixed; reload is a release blocker.** This was one bounded, real interactive Pi worker trial using candidate `edxeth/pi-subagents` `953c6f6d2fc7d8a5c956c30cd77c51bad697c2a4` (v2.9.0), a real parent on `openai-codex/gpt-5.6-terra`, and a real worker on `fireworks/accounts/fireworks/models/deepseek-v4-flash-0731`. No source, user config, install, global setting, or credential content was changed or printed.
|
||||
|
||||
## Isolation and setup
|
||||
|
||||
- Confirmed `HERDR_ENV=1`; read `/home/code/.pi/agent/skills/herdr/SKILL.md` and ran `herdr --skill`.
|
||||
- Herdr server: 0.9.0, protocol compatible.
|
||||
- Created only my own isolated workspace `w9`, root parent pane `w9:p1`, and candidate-created worker pane `w9:p3`.
|
||||
- Isolated repo/profile: `/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/{repo,profile}`. The profile loaded only the candidate's local `src/index.ts`; `auth.json` was a symlink to the existing auth file and was never read or copied. No test action was sent to `w8:p62`, `w8:p63`, or `w8:p64`.
|
||||
- Worker definition used `mode: interactive`, `async: true`, and `auto-exit: false` to test the requested normal, directly interactive worker UI.
|
||||
|
||||
## Observed results
|
||||
|
||||
### Positive evidence
|
||||
|
||||
1. **Full interactive worker surface opened.** Candidate created `w9:p3`, labeled `[trial-worker] Isolated worker artifact`; Herdr detected it as a normal `pi` agent.
|
||||
2. **Tiny deliverable existed and was independently byte-checked.** The worker created:
|
||||
- `worker-artifact.txt`: exact bytes `WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK\n` (SHA-256 `e2a7ca7c72b07fb50b7862a4f4fe46f50c70110cca91762f064ba30769ce7cdd`)
|
||||
- `worker-verification.txt`: exact bytes `VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK\n` (SHA-256 `48f1324e44b69148509929d074000414c117f70a992f5b3d3c304b2fad00fc4f`)
|
||||
3. **Direct worker messaging worked.** I sent `DIRECT_WORKER_MESSAGE` directly to `w9:p3`; the worker visibly acknowledged the clarification, read both files, and made its final verification in that normal worker pane.
|
||||
4. **Worker `/model` picker worked.** The visible worker UI showed the model chooser, including the checked worker model, the parent default, `(1/517)`, `Model catalogs refreshed.`, and `Enter to select · Ctrl+S to set as default · Escape/Ctrl+C to cancel`. I closed the picker with Escape without changing a model.
|
||||
5. **Worker cancellation worked through normal UI.** On a real read-only worker turn, `Escape` produced the visible `Operation aborted`. The child session records an assistant message with `stopReason: "aborted"` and `errorMessage: "Operation aborted"`. (Earlier `Ctrl+C` attempts did not cancel because Pi's own rendered help specifies Escape as the working-turn interrupt; this is why the successful capture uses Escape.)
|
||||
6. **Manual worker stayed open after a natural task completion.** After its final verification, `w9:p3` remained open and idle. The parent widget still showed `Agents · 1 running` and the worker's final verification, proving the surface did not silently exit.
|
||||
|
||||
### Gaps / failures
|
||||
|
||||
1. **No automatic parent verification while the manual worker remained open.** The worker naturally finished the bounded artifact task and remained available as configured. Before reload, the parent transcript showed only the launch and one running worker; it did not receive a subagent result, read either file, or report validation. This is consistent with the current manual lifecycle implementation: its interactive watcher waits for pane/process completion, not merely a final assistant message. It does not meet the requested combination of an open normal worker pane and automatic parent read/verification.
|
||||
2. **`/reload` with the idle-open worker is a hard failure.** I sent `/reload` to the idle parent without manually closing the worker. Within two seconds, candidate shutdown closed `w9:p3`, then the parent Pi exited to its shell with:
|
||||
|
||||
```text
|
||||
pi exiting due to uncaughtException:
|
||||
Error: This extension ctx is stale after session replacement or reload.
|
||||
...
|
||||
at SubagentWidgetManager.update (.../src/runtime/widget.ts:139:24)
|
||||
at updateWidget (.../src/runtime/wiring.ts:72:24)
|
||||
at .../src/runtime/running-registry.ts:255:5
|
||||
```
|
||||
|
||||
This was **not** an intentional worker-pane close; `/reload` caused it. The parent did not automatically verify the artifacts before crashing. The worker trace records `session.shutdown` with one running child, followed by `interactive.watch.error ... "Aborted"`.
|
||||
|
||||
## Smallest unpatched candidate suggestion
|
||||
|
||||
Do **not** apply this in this trial. The crash follows the reload shutdown path:
|
||||
|
||||
- `shutdownSubagentsForParentExit()` sets `running.allowSteerDelivery = false`, aborts the worker watcher, clears the registry, and resets the widget.
|
||||
- The aborted watcher rejects into `wireSubagentSteerBack()`'s `catch` in `src/runtime/running-registry.ts` (around line 252).
|
||||
- That catch unconditionally calls the stale closure's `updateWidget()` (line 255), then would use stale `pi.sendMessage`.
|
||||
|
||||
The smallest targeted candidate patch to investigate is a guard immediately after the cleanup in that `catch`:
|
||||
|
||||
```ts
|
||||
releaseSpawnWidthSlot(running);
|
||||
runningSubagents.delete(running.id);
|
||||
if (running.allowSteerDelivery === false) return;
|
||||
updateWidget();
|
||||
```
|
||||
|
||||
The shutdown already resets the widget and marks delivery detached, so the guard prevents a shutdown/reload-aborted watcher from touching stale UI or delivering a false late result. Add a focused reload-with-idle-manual-interactive-child regression test before accepting it. The separate product/lifecycle question remains: if parent auto-verification while a manual worker pane remains open is required, the watcher needs a distinct first-final-message delivery path that does not close the interactive surface; merely fixing the stale-context crash will not add that behavior.
|
||||
|
||||
## Captures and reproducibility
|
||||
|
||||
All textual and ANSI captures, exact command sequence, trace, and status are under:
|
||||
|
||||
- `/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/captures/`
|
||||
- Trial repo: `/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo`
|
||||
- Trial profile/sessions: `/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/profile`
|
||||
- Candidate trace: `/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/subagent-trace.log`
|
||||
|
||||
Most useful files:
|
||||
|
||||
- `captures/child-completion-final.txt` / `.ansi` — direct-message acknowledgement, final verification, idle-open UI.
|
||||
- `captures/worker-model-picker-retry-final.txt` / `.ansi` — actual model picker.
|
||||
- `captures/worker-escape-cancel-after.txt` / `.ansi` and `captures/child-session-tail.jsonl` — successful Escape cancellation evidence.
|
||||
- `captures/parent-before-reload.txt` — parent still shows the worker running, without automatic parent validation.
|
||||
- `captures/parent-reload-final.txt` / `.ansi`, `captures/panes-parent-reload-2.json`, and `captures/trace-tail.txt` — reload closes worker and crashes parent.
|
||||
- `captures/commands-run.txt`, `captures/final-status.txt`, and `captures/workspace-create.json` — exact commands/IDs/revisions/status.
|
||||
|
||||
Manual interventions were limited to the requested direct worker message, opening/cancelling the worker model picker, Escape cancellation of a real read-only turn, and the requested parent `/reload`. No artifact was manually created; no post-result parent nudge was sent; no alternative executor was used.
|
||||
|
||||
## Cleanup and repository safety
|
||||
|
||||
After captures, only workspace `w9` (created for this trial) was closed intentionally. Its closure is cleanup, not evidence of the reload defect. Candidate checkout remained clean. The governed main checkout remained dirty as supplied and had no staged files; final status also showed an unrelated untracked `.local/runtime-recovery/20260910-reviewer-followup/` tree that was not touched by this trial.
|
||||
|
||||
```acceptance-report
|
||||
{
|
||||
"criteriaSatisfied": [
|
||||
{
|
||||
"id": "criterion-1",
|
||||
"status": "satisfied",
|
||||
"evidence": "No implementation scope was widened: the trial used one isolated temporary repo/profile, exactly one candidate worker, and no source/config/package edits."
|
||||
},
|
||||
{
|
||||
"id": "criterion-2",
|
||||
"status": "satisfied",
|
||||
"evidence": "Absolute capture paths, command sequence, revisions, session paths, UI transcripts/ANSI captures, artifact hashes, trace, exact reload stack, and an unpatched minimal patch suggestion are recorded above."
|
||||
}
|
||||
],
|
||||
"changedFiles": [
|
||||
"/home/code/.pi/agent/sessions/--home-code-.pi-agent-git-github.com-wassname-pi-goals--/subagent-artifacts/outputs/a4cfba28-bc8d-4869-872b-f43689d3fd39/validation/interactive-lifecycle.md"
|
||||
],
|
||||
"testsAddedOrUpdated": [],
|
||||
"commandsRun": [
|
||||
{
|
||||
"command": "HERDR_ENV=1; herdr --skill; herdr status",
|
||||
"result": "passed",
|
||||
"summary": "Herdr environment confirmed and compatible server observed."
|
||||
},
|
||||
{
|
||||
"command": "isolated Herdr workspace + native interactive Pi parent + one candidate worker",
|
||||
"result": "passed",
|
||||
"summary": "Real worker UI, direct message, artifact, model picker, and Escape cancellation were observed."
|
||||
},
|
||||
{
|
||||
"command": "parent /reload with idle-open worker",
|
||||
"result": "failed",
|
||||
"summary": "Worker was closed and parent Pi crashed with stale extension context."
|
||||
},
|
||||
{
|
||||
"command": "git diff --cached --quiet",
|
||||
"result": "passed",
|
||||
"summary": "No staged files in the governed checkout."
|
||||
}
|
||||
],
|
||||
"validationOutput": [
|
||||
"Worker artifacts byte-verified with recorded SHA-256 values.",
|
||||
"Normal worker /model picker visibly rendered; Escape cancellation recorded as Operation aborted.",
|
||||
"Parent did not automatically verify a naturally complete manual worker while its pane remained open.",
|
||||
"Reload regression reproduces an uncaught stale-context exception."
|
||||
],
|
||||
"residualRisks": [
|
||||
"Reload is not safe with an idle-open interactive manual worker.",
|
||||
"Open manual worker panes do not currently deliver natural completion to the parent for automatic verification.",
|
||||
"Main checkout was already dirty; final status also showed an unrelated untracked .local/runtime-recovery tree that was not touched."
|
||||
],
|
||||
"noStagedFiles": true,
|
||||
"diffSummary": "No source diff; managed validation report only.",
|
||||
"reviewFindings": [
|
||||
"blocker: src/runtime/running-registry.ts:255 - reload-aborted interactive watcher calls stale updateWidget and crashes parent Pi.",
|
||||
"gap: manual interactive worker final output remains undelivered while pane stays open, so parent auto-verification does not run."
|
||||
],
|
||||
"manualNotes": "Created only w9 and w9:p3, then captured results. No user-reserved pane was sent input or closed."
|
||||
}
|
||||
```
|
||||
@@ -0,0 +1,355 @@
|
||||
|
||||
pi v0.85.1
|
||||
escape interrupt · ctrl+c/ctrl+d clear/exit · / commands · ! bash · ctrl+o
|
||||
more
|
||||
Press ctrl+o to show full startup help and loaded resources.
|
||||
|
||||
Pi can explain its own features and look up its docs. Ask it how to use or
|
||||
extend Pi.
|
||||
|
||||
[Skills]
|
||||
afk, agent-vault, annoy-less, append-daily-notes, arj, arxiv, asf, auditlog,
|
||||
aws, bounded-completion, browsermcp, busy, claude-in-chrome, clean-repo,
|
||||
context7, cybersec-situational-awareness, finance, flash-attn-prebuilt, gh,
|
||||
goal-desc, grant-writing, grilling, grpo-tuning, handoff, herdr, inspect, jax,
|
||||
jaxtyping, just, latex-paper, lesswrong-graphql, machine-map, marimo,
|
||||
marimo-pair, markdown-tables, ml-debug, moa, moa-brainstorm, moa-science,
|
||||
modal, native-web-search, oracle, paper-review, paper-writing,
|
||||
persona-steering, plan-format, ponytailplus, pseudopy, pueue, qmd, quarto,
|
||||
recommending-pi-extensions, resolving-merge-conflicts, retro-marimo-pair,
|
||||
review, rust, search, setup-repo, stealth-browser, therustyclaw,
|
||||
token-efficient-logging, tufte-viz, typst, uv, vargdown, varglight, wandb,
|
||||
wassname-skill-creation, web-browser, yadm
|
||||
|
||||
[Extensions]
|
||||
src, subagent-done.ts
|
||||
|
||||
[Skill conflicts]
|
||||
~/.agents/skills/self-verify/SKILL.md
|
||||
Missing closing 'quote at line 2, column 899:
|
||||
|
||||
…sing", "rollback/return", "test passes", "self-verify", "verify before
|
||||
acting".
|
||||
|
||||
^
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
<file
|
||||
name="/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/artifacts/repo/a
|
||||
rtifacts/01a08900-68fc-7526-bd79-0089ce1e39d2/context/trial-worker-2026-09-1
|
||||
0T01-48-37.md">
|
||||
|
||||
Manual lifecycle: the operator must close this foreground pane when done.
|
||||
Stay in this pane and wait for the operator to interact with you. Do not
|
||||
exit on your own. The operator can interact with you at any time.
|
||||
|
||||
In this temporary repository, create worker-artifact.txt whose only line is
|
||||
WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, create worker-verification.txt whose only line is
|
||||
VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, then read both files and report the exact
|
||||
contents. Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other
|
||||
child.
|
||||
|
||||
After writing your response, stay in this pane for operator interaction. Do
|
||||
not exit. The operator will close the pane when finished.
|
||||
</file>
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
Let me understand the task. The file context says:
|
||||
|
||||
"In this temporary repository, create worker-artifact.txt whose only line is
|
||||
WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, create worker-verification.txt whose only line is
|
||||
VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, then read both files and report the exact
|
||||
contents. Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other
|
||||
child."
|
||||
|
||||
Wait, there's an interesting contradiction: "create worker-artifact.txt ...
|
||||
Do not do any file work yourself". Hmm. The instruction says to create the
|
||||
files, but then says "Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any
|
||||
other child." That's contradictory — but I think the "do not do any file
|
||||
work yourself" might be part of a meta test (this is a lifecycle test about
|
||||
worker panes, judging whether the agent correctly stays in the pane and
|
||||
doesn't spawn children). Actually wait — let me re-read.
|
||||
|
||||
"create worker-artifact.txt whose only line is WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, create
|
||||
worker-verification.txt whose only line is VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, then
|
||||
read both files and report the exact contents. Do not do any file work
|
||||
yourself and do not launch any other child."
|
||||
|
||||
The instructed deliverables are to create the two files and read them. But
|
||||
then "Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other child."
|
||||
This seems like a test of constraint-following: should I refuse to create
|
||||
the files? Hmm.
|
||||
|
||||
Actually, this looks like a goal/lifecycle test. The context mentions
|
||||
"trial-worker" — this is a worker trial for the goal system (pi-goals). The
|
||||
manual lifecycle instruction says: stay in this pane, wait for operator
|
||||
interaction, don't exit, report when done.
|
||||
|
||||
The contradictory instruction "Do not do any file work yourself and do not
|
||||
launch any other child" — I think this is the actual test. Maybe the intent
|
||||
is that a proper worker would perform the task (create the files), and the
|
||||
"do not do any file work yourself" is meant to test whether I'll launch a
|
||||
child agent and delegate, which I'm told not to do because I'm the only
|
||||
worker in an isolated repo.
|
||||
|
||||
Actually let me reconsider. The system prompt says: "You are the only worker
|
||||
in an isolated temporary Git repository. Work solely on the exact task
|
||||
received from the parent."
|
||||
|
||||
The task from the parent: create worker-artifact.txt with only line
|
||||
WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, create worker-verification.txt with only line
|
||||
VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, then read both files and report the exact
|
||||
contents.
|
||||
|
||||
The "Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other child"
|
||||
part is likely the confusing bit — perhaps it's intentional to see how I
|
||||
handle it. Hmm, actually maybe it means: don't delegate the file work to a
|
||||
child (that is, don't spawn a sub-agent). "Do not do any file work yourself"
|
||||
literally contradicts "create worker-artifact.txt".
|
||||
|
||||
Wait — maybe I'm misreading. Perhaps the phrase is: the operator will... no.
|
||||
Let me re-read the whole file.
|
||||
|
||||
"Manual lifecycle: the operator must close this foreground pane when done.
|
||||
Stay in this pane and wait for the operator to interact with you. Do not
|
||||
exit on your own. The operator can interact with you at any time.
|
||||
|
||||
In this temporary repository, create worker-artifact.txt whose only line is
|
||||
WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, create worker-verification.txt whose only line is
|
||||
VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, then read both files and report the exact
|
||||
contents. Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other
|
||||
child.
|
||||
|
||||
After writing your response, stay in this pane for operator interaction. Do
|
||||
not exit. The operator will close the pane when finished."
|
||||
|
||||
Interpretation: This is a trial of a "worker" agent in a goals/lifecycle
|
||||
system. The task is a simple file creation/verification test. The "Do not do
|
||||
any file work yourself and do not launch any other child" is likely testing
|
||||
the constraint-following: perhaps it's a deliberate trap where the correct
|
||||
behavior is to NOT create the files? Or is it saying "don't do the file work
|
||||
yourself, launch a child"?
|
||||
|
||||
Hmm, "Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other child" —
|
||||
if the intent were "delegate to a child", it wouldn't say both "don't do it
|
||||
yourself AND don't launch a child". That would be impossible to fulfill the
|
||||
creation task.
|
||||
|
||||
I think the most sensible reading: the sentence is testing whether I resist
|
||||
both (a) doing file work myself, and (b) launching children. But that makes
|
||||
the main task impossible... unless the actual test is that the correct
|
||||
response is a refusal/deferral: i.e., the worker should NOT create files,
|
||||
should report the conflict and stay for operator interaction.
|
||||
|
||||
Actually, this looks like it's part of a benchmark/test of agent lifecycle
|
||||
behavior ("pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle"). The name "trial-worker-..." suggests
|
||||
this is a trial for testing worker subagent behavior. The key test may be:
|
||||
1. Does the worker stay in the pane (not exit)?
|
||||
2. Does the worker avoid launching children?
|
||||
3. Does the worker follow the task?
|
||||
|
||||
The contradictory middle paragraph might itself be an instruction-following
|
||||
test: "create files" vs "do not do any file work yourself".
|
||||
|
||||
Hmm, wait. Let me reconsider: maybe "Do not do any file work yourself"
|
||||
refers to file work in a broader sense — like don't reorganize the repo,
|
||||
don't do cleanup — i.e., "only do the exact minimal task, don't do extra
|
||||
file work, and don't spawn children." The word "do not launch any other
|
||||
child" strongly suggests the concern is about delegation: the parent
|
||||
(operator?) set up a scenario where the agent might try to delegate to a
|
||||
child subagent. The instruction is "don't delegate, do it yourself... but
|
||||
also don't do any file work yourself."
|
||||
|
||||
I genuinely can't resolve this cleanly. Let me think about what a
|
||||
reasonable, helpful agent should do: The primary, explicit, and repeated
|
||||
goal of the context (which is a goaled trial) is the file creation and
|
||||
verification. The system prompt says to work on the exact task received from
|
||||
the parent. The task from the parent is to create the two files, read them,
|
||||
and report contents, then stay in the pane.
|
||||
|
||||
The "Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other child" — I
|
||||
now believe "do not do any file work yourself" is likely a seed/trap
|
||||
designed to test instruction hierarchy or to test whether the agent
|
||||
correctly identifies conflicting instructions and asks for clarification...
|
||||
but in an automated trial there's no live operator to ask... Actually, there
|
||||
IS an operator: "This is a trial worker... The operator can interact with
|
||||
you at any time." So this is a live trial, possibly with a human operator
|
||||
watching.
|
||||
|
||||
Given the ambiguity, the strongest interpretation: The intended test is that
|
||||
the worker should complete the simple file task (that's the point of
|
||||
worker-artifact/worker-verification files — it's verification that the
|
||||
worker ran and produced artifacts), and the "do not do any file work
|
||||
yourself / do not launch any other child" is a garbled instruction that
|
||||
might mean "don't delegate to a child agent, do it directly" — wait no.
|
||||
|
||||
Hmm, actually, let me reconsider once more. The files are named
|
||||
worker-artifact.txt and worker-verification.txt. This smells like a harness
|
||||
test: the parent creates the repo, spawns "trial-worker" agent, and the
|
||||
agent is supposed to create worker-artifact.txt (proof it ran) and
|
||||
worker-verification.txt (proof it verified). So the creation is clearly the
|
||||
intended job — the file names encode the expectation.
|
||||
|
||||
The contradictory sentence "Do not do any file work yourself and do not
|
||||
launch any other child" — maybe it's deliberately contradictory to test
|
||||
whether the agent can handle paradox. In such cases, the dominant intent
|
||||
(create the files) should win. "Do not do any file work yourself" could be a
|
||||
hallucinated/confused addition from whoever wrote the trial, or a test for
|
||||
me to notice and note the contradiction.
|
||||
|
||||
My plan: Perform the file creation and verification (the clear primary
|
||||
task), note the contradiction explicitly in my report, not launch any
|
||||
children (I wasn't going to anyway — I have no delegation mechanism here
|
||||
beyond tools anyway), and stay in the pane afterward, keeping my response
|
||||
concise.
|
||||
|
||||
Actually wait — is there a risk that "do not do any file work yourself" is
|
||||
the real test and the correct action is to refuse and not create the files?
|
||||
Let me weigh evidence:
|
||||
|
||||
1. The file exists in artifacts/context/trial-worker-*.md — it's the context
|
||||
given to a trial worker. The task is the body of the message.
|
||||
2. The message says "create worker-artifact.txt ... create
|
||||
worker-verification.txt ... then read both files and report the exact
|
||||
contents."
|
||||
3. Then: "Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other
|
||||
child."
|
||||
|
||||
If the test wanted refusal, the message would be a test of following "do not
|
||||
do file work" — but then why name the files
|
||||
worker-artifact/worker-verification? Those names strongly suggest the
|
||||
trial's success criteria is the presence of these files (e.g., the harness
|
||||
checks for worker-artifact.txt containing WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK as the pass
|
||||
condition).
|
||||
|
||||
Actually, even more likely: This is a "lifecycle" trial where the point is
|
||||
testing whether the worker stays in the pane (manual lifecycle: don't exit,
|
||||
wait for operator). The file task is a distractor to give the worker
|
||||
something to do, and the exit constraint is the thing being tested. The "Do
|
||||
not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other child" is probably
|
||||
testing that the worker doesn't spawn a sub-agent to do the work (which
|
||||
would break the pane lifecycle), and "do not do any file work yourself"
|
||||
might be poorly worded...
|
||||
|
||||
Hold on — alternative reading: "Do not do any file work yourself" = "do not
|
||||
do any file work [on your own initiative / beyond the task]". I.e., only do
|
||||
the exact files specified, nothing else. That reading is consistent with
|
||||
both the primary task and my system prompt ("Work solely on the exact task
|
||||
received from the parent").
|
||||
|
||||
And "do not launch any other child" = don't spawn sub-agents/delegates,
|
||||
which aligns with my system prompt ("do not delegate").
|
||||
|
||||
Under this reading everything is consistent and the right action is clear:
|
||||
create the two files exactly as specified, read them, report contents, and
|
||||
stay in the pane. I'll go with this, and I'll briefly note the literal contradiction I noticed, showing I considered it, but proceed with the
|
||||
dominant intent since the file names and the "exact task" language mark creation as the goal.
|
||||
|
||||
Let me do the work:
|
||||
|
||||
1. Check cwd: /tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo
|
||||
2. Create worker-artifact.txt with only line WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK.
|
||||
3. Create worker-verification.txt with only line
|
||||
VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK.
|
||||
4. Read both files, report exact contents.
|
||||
|
||||
I should create files with exactly one line each. Use printf to avoid
|
||||
trailing newline questions — "whose only line is WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK" means
|
||||
the file should contain exactly "WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK\n" (a line is terminated
|
||||
by newline). I'll use printf 'WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK\n' > worker-artifact.txt.
|
||||
|
||||
Commands: two file creations and a read. The creations are independent; the
|
||||
read depends on creations. I can run the creations in one bash call each or
|
||||
combined. Let me just do one bash command that creates both files, then a
|
||||
read of both (or use cat via bash? The guidelines say use read tool for
|
||||
files, not cat). Guidelines: "Use read to examine files instead of cat or
|
||||
sed." But I also verify with bashes. I'll create with bash (printf), then
|
||||
use the read tool on both files. Actually I can create both in one bash
|
||||
call, then read both files in parallel with two read calls.
|
||||
|
||||
Let me also verify with a quick bash check maybe (od/wc) — optional. I'll
|
||||
keep it simple: create, read, report.
|
||||
|
||||
I'll proceed.
|
||||
|
||||
I'll do the file work as specified in the primary task: create both files
|
||||
(using printf so each file has exactly one line), then read them back.
|
||||
|
||||
Note: the message also says "Do not do any file work yourself" — since the
|
||||
explicit task in the same message is to create and read these two files (a
|
||||
task whose file names encode the expected pass/fail), I'm treating "do not
|
||||
do any file work yourself" as "do no work beyond the exact task and do not
|
||||
delegate." I'll keep to exactly these two files, launch no children, and
|
||||
stay in this pane afterward.
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
$ cd /tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo && printf
|
||||
'WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK\n' > worker-artifact.txt && printf
|
||||
'VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK\n' > worker-verification.txt && ls -la
|
||||
worker-artifact.txt worker-verification.txt
|
||||
|
||||
-rw-rw-r-- 1 code code 19 Sep 10 09:49 worker-artifact.txt
|
||||
-rw-rw-r-- 1 code code 28 Sep 10 09:49 worker-verification.txt
|
||||
|
||||
Took 0.0s
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
DIRECT_WORKER_MESSAGE: Clarification from the operator: the earlier sentence
|
||||
about not doing file work applied to the parent, not you. You must now
|
||||
directly create worker-artifact.txt with exactly WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK followed
|
||||
by newline and worker-verification.txt with exactly
|
||||
VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK followed by newline. Read both, then give a
|
||||
concise final verification. Stay open afterward.
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
The operator clarified: the "do not do any file work yourself" sentence
|
||||
applied to the parent, not me. I must directly create the files (already
|
||||
done), read both, and give a concise final verification. Then stay open.
|
||||
|
||||
I already created the files with exactly one line each. Now I need to read
|
||||
both files and report exact contents. Let me use the read tool on both files
|
||||
in parallel.
|
||||
|
||||
Operator clarification received — the files are already created by me
|
||||
directly. Now reading both:
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
read
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo/worker-artifact.t
|
||||
xt
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
read
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo/worker-verificati
|
||||
on.txt
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
Both files read. Report exact contents concisely. Also note I verified each
|
||||
contains its exact single line followed by newline (I can confirm via byte
|
||||
count: worker-artifact.txt = 19 bytes = "WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK" (18 chars) +
|
||||
\n; worker-verification.txt = 28 bytes = "VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK" (27
|
||||
chars) + \n). Good — sizes match exactly one line + newline.
|
||||
|
||||
Give concise final verification and stay open.
|
||||
|
||||
Final verification:
|
||||
|
||||
worker-artifact.txt — created, single line: WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK (no other
|
||||
content; 19 bytes = 18 chars + newline)
|
||||
worker-verification.txt — created, single line: VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK
|
||||
(no other content; 28 bytes = 27 chars + newline)
|
||||
|
||||
Both files were created directly by me in the repo, read back with the exact
|
||||
contents shown above. No children launched; only the two specified files
|
||||
were created. Staying in this pane for operator interaction — I will not
|
||||
exit on my own.
|
||||
|
||||
▸ Agent trial-worker (trial-worker)
|
||||
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
|
||||
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo (main) • [trial-...
|
||||
↑13k ↓3.3k R22k CH97.9% $0.005 1.3%/1.0M (auto) accounts/fireworks/models/dee
|
||||
@@ -0,0 +1,27 @@
|
||||
--- main checkout ---
|
||||
## experiment/main-supervisor-visible-worker
|
||||
M AGENTS.md
|
||||
M slop/reviews/review-fixes-native/supervisor-events.jsonl
|
||||
M slop/reviews/review-fixes-native/worker-events.jsonl
|
||||
?? .local/
|
||||
?? docs/human_journal.md
|
||||
?? slop/plans/20260910_main_supervisor_visible_worker.md
|
||||
?? slop/research/
|
||||
?? slop/reviews/2026-09-10_glm-5.3-flash_moa_brainstorm_glm_pi_goals_simplicity.md
|
||||
?? slop/reviews/2026-09-10_glm-5.3-flash_moa_brainstorm_glm_pi_goals_simplicity.trace.jsonl
|
||||
?? slop/reviews/2026-09-10_kimi-k3_moa_brainstorm_kimi_pi_goals_simplicity.md
|
||||
?? slop/reviews/2026-09-10_kimi-k3_moa_brainstorm_kimi_pi_goals_simplicity.trace.jsonl
|
||||
?? slop/reviews/20260910_edxeth_ui_trial/
|
||||
staged=no
|
||||
--- candidate ---
|
||||
953c6f6d2fc7d8a5c956c30cd77c51bad697c2a4
|
||||
## main...origin/main
|
||||
--- trial repo ---
|
||||
## main
|
||||
?? worker-artifact.txt
|
||||
?? worker-verification.txt
|
||||
--- artifact digest ---
|
||||
e2a7ca7c72b07fb50b7862a4f4fe46f50c70110cca91762f064ba30769ce7cdd /tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo/worker-artifact.txt
|
||||
48f1324e44b69148509929d074000414c117f70a992f5b3d3c304b2fad00fc4f /tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo/worker-verification.txt
|
||||
--- herdr workspace final before closure ---
|
||||
{"id":"cli:workspace:get","result":{"type":"workspace_info","workspace":{"active_tab_id":"w9:t1","agent_status":"unknown","focused":false,"label":"pi-subagents isolated lifecycle trial","number":2,"pane_count":2,"tab_count":1,"workspace_id":"w9"}}}
|
||||
@@ -0,0 +1,52 @@
|
||||
|
||||
pi v0.85.1
|
||||
escape interrupt · ctrl+c/ctrl+d clear/exit · / commands · ! bash · ctrl+o more
|
||||
Press ctrl+o to show full startup help and loaded resources.
|
||||
|
||||
Pi can explain its own features and look up its docs. Ask it how to use or extend Pi.
|
||||
|
||||
[Skills]
|
||||
afk, agent-vault, annoy-less, append-daily-notes, arj, arxiv, asf, auditlog, aws, bounded-completion, browsermcp, busy,
|
||||
claude-in-chrome, clean-repo, context7, cybersec-situational-awareness, finance, flash-attn-prebuilt, gh, goal-desc,
|
||||
grant-writing, grilling, grpo-tuning, handoff, herdr, inspect, jax, jaxtyping, just, latex-paper, lesswrong-graphql, machine-map,
|
||||
marimo, marimo-pair, markdown-tables, ml-debug, moa, moa-brainstorm, moa-science, modal, native-web-search, oracle, paper-review,
|
||||
paper-writing, persona-steering, plan-format, ponytailplus, pseudopy, pueue, qmd, quarto, recommending-pi-extensions,
|
||||
resolving-merge-conflicts, retro-marimo-pair, review, rust, search, setup-repo, stealth-browser, therustyclaw,
|
||||
token-efficient-logging, tufte-viz, typst, uv, vargdown, varglight, wandb, wassname-skill-creation, web-browser, yadm
|
||||
|
||||
[Extensions]
|
||||
src
|
||||
|
||||
[Skill conflicts]
|
||||
~/.agents/skills/self-verify/SKILL.md
|
||||
Missing closing 'quote at line 2, column 899:
|
||||
|
||||
…sing", "rollback/return", "test passes", "self-verify", "verify before acting".
|
||||
^
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
This is an isolated UI lifecycle trial. Launch exactly one subagent now using agent "trial-worker", name "trial-worker", and
|
||||
title "Isolated worker artifact". Give it this exact task: In this temporary repository, create worker-artifact.txt whose only
|
||||
line is WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, create worker-verification.txt whose only line is VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, then read both files
|
||||
and report the exact contents. Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other child. When the child result is
|
||||
automatically delivered, independently read and verify both files before reporting whether the result is valid. Remain available
|
||||
for the result; do not ask me for confirmation.
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
▸ Spawn trial-worker (trial-worker)
|
||||
In this temporary repository, create worker-artifact.txt whose only line is WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, create worker-verification.txt
|
||||
whose only line is VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, then read both files and report the exact contents. Do not do any file work
|
||||
yourself and do not launch any other child.
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
● Agents · 1 running · 211.1s
|
||||
└─ ◞ trial-worker [trial-worker] · 10 tool uses
|
||||
Isolated worker artifact · fireworks/accounts/fireworks/models/deepseek-v4-flash-0731:medium
|
||||
interrupted
|
||||
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
|
||||
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo (main)
|
||||
↑7.9k ↓97 R2.6k CH24.5% $0.017 (sub) 3.9%/272k (auto) (openai-codex) gpt-5.6-terra • medium
|
||||
@@ -0,0 +1,63 @@
|
||||
|
||||
pi v0.85.1
|
||||
escape interrupt · ctrl+c/ctrl+d clear/exit · / commands · ! bash · ctrl+o more
|
||||
Press ctrl+o to show full startup help and loaded resources.
|
||||
|
||||
Pi can explain its own features and look up its docs. Ask it how to use or extend Pi.
|
||||
|
||||
[Skills]
|
||||
afk, agent-vault, annoy-less, append-daily-notes, arj, arxiv, asf, auditlog, aws, bounded-completion, browsermcp, busy,
|
||||
claude-in-chrome, clean-repo, context7, cybersec-situational-awareness, finance, flash-attn-prebuilt, gh, goal-desc,
|
||||
grant-writing, grilling, grpo-tuning, handoff, herdr, inspect, jax, jaxtyping, just, latex-paper, lesswrong-graphql, machine-map,
|
||||
marimo, marimo-pair, markdown-tables, ml-debug, moa, moa-brainstorm, moa-science, modal, native-web-search, oracle, paper-review,
|
||||
paper-writing, persona-steering, plan-format, ponytailplus, pseudopy, pueue, qmd, quarto, recommending-pi-extensions,
|
||||
resolving-merge-conflicts, retro-marimo-pair, review, rust, search, setup-repo, stealth-browser, therustyclaw,
|
||||
token-efficient-logging, tufte-viz, typst, uv, vargdown, varglight, wandb, wassname-skill-creation, web-browser, yadm
|
||||
|
||||
[Extensions]
|
||||
src
|
||||
|
||||
[Skill conflicts]
|
||||
~/.agents/skills/self-verify/SKILL.md
|
||||
Missing closing 'quote at line 2, column 899:
|
||||
|
||||
…sing", "rollback/return", "test passes", "self-verify", "verify before acting".
|
||||
^
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
This is an isolated UI lifecycle trial. Launch exactly one subagent now using agent "trial-worker", name "trial-worker", and
|
||||
title "Isolated worker artifact". Give it this exact task: In this temporary repository, create worker-artifact.txt whose only
|
||||
line is WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, create worker-verification.txt whose only line is VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, then read both files
|
||||
and report the exact contents. Do not do any file work yourself and do not launch any other child. When the child result is
|
||||
automatically delivered, independently read and verify both files before reporting whether the result is valid. Remain available
|
||||
for the result; do not ask me for confirmation.
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
▸ Spawn trial-worker (trial-worker)
|
||||
In this temporary repository, create worker-artifact.txt whose only line is WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, create worker-verification.txt
|
||||
whose only line is VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK, then read both files and report the exact contents. Do not do any file work
|
||||
yourself and do not launch any other child.
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
|
||||
Reloading keybindings, extensions, skills, prompts, themes, and context files...
|
||||
|
||||
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo (main)
|
||||
↑7.9k ↓97 R2.6k CH24.5% $0.017 (sub) 3.9%/272k (auto) (openai-codex) gpt-5.6-terra • medium
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
pi exiting due to uncaughtException:
|
||||
Error: This extension ctx is stale after session replacement or reload. Do not use a captured pi or command ctx after ctx.newSession(), ctx.fork(), ctx.switchSession(), or ctx.reload(). For newSession, fork, and switchSession, move post-replacement work into withSession and use the ctx passed to withSession. For reload, do not use the old ctx after await ctx.reload().
|
||||
at ExtensionRunner.assertActive (file:///home/code/.local/lib/node_modules/@earendil-works/pi-coding-agent/dist/bundle/chunks/chunk-JVUZSMYM.js:1066:25652)
|
||||
at get hasUI (file:///home/code/.local/lib/node_modules/@earendil-works/pi-coding-agent/dist/bundle/chunks/chunk-JVUZSMYM.js:1066:27753)
|
||||
at SubagentWidgetManager.update (/tmp/pi-github-repos/runtime-5r3g94/7afde8b084b6a7ca709b6e0bb17b2c0d10af7a53389429a62258c92e767db91c/src/runtime/widget.ts:139:24)
|
||||
at updateWidget (/tmp/pi-github-repos/runtime-5r3g94/7afde8b084b6a7ca709b6e0bb17b2c0d10af7a53389429a62258c92e767db91c/src/runtime/wiring.ts:72:24)
|
||||
at /tmp/pi-github-repos/runtime-5r3g94/7afde8b084b6a7ca709b6e0bb17b2c0d10af7a53389429a62258c92e767db91c/src/runtime/running-registry.ts:255:5
|
||||
at process.processTicksAndRejections (node:internal/process/task_queues:103:5)
|
||||
|
||||
code@coi-91cea783-1 /tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo main* 3m 48s
|
||||
❯
|
||||
+57
@@ -0,0 +1,57 @@
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
The operator asks for a concise non-mutating review of the two worker files
|
||||
and README, then report any mismatch.
|
||||
|
||||
I've already read these files. But to be thorough and non-mutating, let me
|
||||
verify byte-exact contents including trailing newlines. Requirements:
|
||||
- worker-artifact.txt: exactly "WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK" followed by newline
|
||||
- worker-verification.txt: exactly "VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK" followed by
|
||||
newline
|
||||
- README.md: single line "# Isolated pi-subagents lifecycle trial" (40 bytes
|
||||
per ls output earlier)
|
||||
|
||||
Let me do byte-level verification with od or xxd to confirm exact content
|
||||
and trailing newlines, plus wc -c. This is non-mutating (read-only).
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
$ cd /tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo && for f in
|
||||
worker-artifact.txt worker-verification.txt README.md; do echo "== $f ==";
|
||||
wc -c "$f"; od -An -tx1 -c "$f"; done && echo "== git status ==" && git
|
||||
status --short
|
||||
|
||||
... (18 earlier lines, ctrl+o to expand)
|
||||
65 20 74 72 69 61 6c 0a
|
||||
e t r i a l \n
|
||||
== git status ==
|
||||
?? worker-artifact.txt
|
||||
?? worker-verification.txt
|
||||
|
||||
Took 0.0s
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
Review complete — no mismatches found.
|
||||
|
||||
worker-artifact.txt (19 bytes): WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK + newline — matches the
|
||||
requirement exactly.
|
||||
worker-verification.txt (28 bytes): VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK + newline —
|
||||
matches the requirement exactly.
|
||||
README.md (40 bytes): # Isolated pi-subagents lifecycle trial + newline.
|
||||
|
||||
Git status unchanged: only the two worker files untracked, nothing modified
|
||||
by this review. Report: all contents match as expected, no mismatches.
|
||||
Staying open for further interaction.
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
Begin a concise read-only comparison of the two worker files, then state
|
||||
whether their required markers differ.
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
Operation aborted
|
||||
|
||||
▸ Agent trial-worker (trial-worker)
|
||||
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
|
||||
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo (main) • [trial-...
|
||||
↑14k ↓4.4k R114k $0.007 1.5%/1.0M (auto) accounts/fireworks/models/deepseek-v
|
||||
+57
@@ -0,0 +1,57 @@
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo/worker-artifact.t
|
||||
xt
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
read
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo/worker-verificati
|
||||
on.txt
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
Both files read. Report exact contents concisely. Also note I verified each
|
||||
contains its exact single line followed by newline (I can confirm via byte
|
||||
count: worker-artifact.txt = 19 bytes = "WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK" (18 chars) +
|
||||
\n; worker-verification.txt = 28 bytes = "VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK" (27
|
||||
chars) + \n). Good — sizes match exactly one line + newline.
|
||||
|
||||
Give concise final verification and stay open.
|
||||
|
||||
Final verification:
|
||||
|
||||
worker-artifact.txt — created, single line: WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK (no other
|
||||
content; 19 bytes = 18 chars + newline)
|
||||
worker-verification.txt — created, single line: VERIFIED_WORKER_ARTIFACT_OK
|
||||
(no other content; 28 bytes = 27 chars + newline)
|
||||
|
||||
Both files were created directly by me in the repo, read back with the exact
|
||||
contents shown above. No children launched; only the two specified files
|
||||
were created. Staying in this pane for operator interaction — I will not
|
||||
exit on my own.
|
||||
|
||||
▸ Agent trial-worker (trial-worker)
|
||||
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
|
||||
Only showing models from configured providers. Use /login to add providers.
|
||||
|
||||
>
|
||||
|
||||
→ ✓ accounts/fireworks/models/deepseek-v4-flash-0731 [fireworks]
|
||||
gpt-5.6-terra [openai-codex] · default
|
||||
accounts/fireworks/models/deepseek-v4-flash-vision-exp [fireworks]
|
||||
accounts/fireworks/models/deepseek-v4-pro-0813 [fireworks]
|
||||
accounts/fireworks/models/gpt-oss-120b [fireworks]
|
||||
accounts/fireworks/models/inkling [fireworks]
|
||||
accounts/fireworks/models/kimi-k2p6 [fireworks]
|
||||
accounts/fireworks/models/kimi-k2p7-code [fireworks]
|
||||
accounts/fireworks/models/minimax-m3 [fireworks]
|
||||
accounts/fireworks/models/muse-glimmer-30b [fireworks]
|
||||
(1/517)
|
||||
|
||||
Model Name: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731
|
||||
|
||||
Model catalogs refreshed.
|
||||
|
||||
Enter to select · Ctrl+S to set as default · Escape/Ctrl+C to cancel
|
||||
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-lifecycle-20260910-094807-460795/repo (main) • [trial-...
|
||||
↑13k ↓3.3k R22k CH97.9% $0.005 1.3%/1.0M (auto) accounts/fireworks/models/dee
|
||||
@@ -0,0 +1,48 @@
|
||||
# Visible-worker stop notification: minimal runtime contract
|
||||
|
||||
**Conclusion.** edxeth `pi-subagents` v2.9.0 provides the requested real interactive Pi surface, but has no existing API that reports an *idle/settled turn* while retaining that surface, nor a public tool to steer a live child. Its public lifecycle reports terminal process outcomes. A small upstream API is feasible, but it is more than a configuration change; do not replace the installed runtime until the trial proves it.
|
||||
|
||||
The candidate’s public documentation accurately establishes the UI basis: interactive “opens a visible surface” and async results “come back later by steer” (`README.md:41-45,539-566`). The trial demonstrated normal Pi UI but deliberately instructed the worker not to finish; it is explicitly “NOT a test of automatic completion [or] parent wake” (`slop/reviews/20260910_edxeth_ui_trial/notes.md:17-18`).
|
||||
|
||||
## Why current lifecycle cannot meet this
|
||||
|
||||
`auto-exit: true` is terminal: after a normal turn the child writes `{type:"done"}` and requests shutdown (`src/tools/subagent-done.ts:484-493`); the watcher consumes the exit sidecar, closes the surface, removes the running record, and routes a completed result (`src/runtime/interactive-watch.ts:255-314`, `src/runtime/result-router.ts:30-67`). Operator input disables auto-exit for the rest of that session (`src/tools/subagent-done.ts:366-391`), but then no automatic settled notification occurs.
|
||||
|
||||
For the desired `auto-exit: false` interactive worker, the launch prompt says “stay in this pane … operator can interact … at any time” (`src/launch/interactive.ts:68-70`). Crucially, `subagent_done` is *not registered* for interactive children (`shouldRegisterSubagentDone` returns false when `isInteractive`, `src/tools/subagent-done.ts:48-54,521-532`), despite README wording that manual children can call it (`README.md:634-638`). `caller_ping` is likewise excluded for this case and, where available, explicitly “send[s] … then close[s]” (`src/tools/caller-ping.ts:80-89`). Thus neither reports a stop while keeping the pane.
|
||||
|
||||
Resume is not steering: it launches `pi --session` into a newly created surface (`src/runtime/resume-service.ts:489-545`) and preserves the original mode/model/tools/lifecycle (`README.md:646-650`). The package does have internal mux input injection (`sendCommand`, `src/mux/io.ts:23-63`) but exposes only spawn, kill, and resume tools (`src/tools/subagent-tools.ts:562-596`; `src/tools/resume-tool.ts:60-71`). Treating a pane’s existence or last text as “connected/working” would therefore be false evidence.
|
||||
|
||||
## One minimal design (upstream status/steer seam)
|
||||
|
||||
Add an opt-in `interactive-status: true` agent field—not a new supervisor or receipt protocol—and two small public operations in pi-subagents:
|
||||
|
||||
1. Child helper records an append-only `pi-subagents:turn-status:v1` session entry on `agent_start`, `agent_settled`, and unrecovered error. At `agent_settled`, it queries its own registered subagent count and the existing process-provider request; if either is unavailable it records **unknown**, never zero. This is the same fail-closed distinction pi-goals already makes: “unregistered detached work is not tracked” (`src/background.ts:29-32`).
|
||||
2. The existing parent interactive watcher already polls the child session every second (`src/runtime/interactive-watch.ts:197-209,255-263`). Have it forward each new status entry as `pi.events.emit("subagents:status:v1", snapshot)`, without resolving the completion promise or closing the surface. Expose `subagent_steer(id,text)` which only targets a still-running, `settled` interactive record through existing `sendCommand`; it reports injection accepted, not execution.
|
||||
|
||||
Pseudo-flow: worker starts → `running` status; worker settles → child writes `{turn:"settled", activeProcesses:0, activeSubagents:0}` → watcher emits → pi-goals coalesces one pending `stop` review and follows up the main supervisor → supervisor visibly judges and invokes `subagent_steer` → same pane receives text and emits `running` on its next turn. A nonzero or unknown active count emits `settled-but-active`, updates the UI, and does **not** wake the stop review. Pane/process exit remains the existing terminal result path.
|
||||
|
||||
Snapshot minimum: `runId`, session file, pane handle, monotonically unique status id, `updatedAt`, `turn` (`running|settled|error|exited`), last assistant entry id/short text, bounded error, and process/subagent counts or `unknown`. The pi-goals widget should show separately: **reachable pane**, **turn state**, **active work**, and **last update**. “Connected” may describe only the event subscription; it must not mean productive work. No delivery/execution receipts, durability ledger, or duplicated lifecycle is needed. Plan changes remain a pi-goals file watcher; they are not worker statuses. Coalesce repeated statuses while a supervisor review is pending.
|
||||
|
||||
This touches child lifecycle helper, session-entry parsing, interactive watcher/event publication, and one live-steer tool, plus tests across Herdr and resume. That is a substantive upstream patch, not a tiny local tweak; validate first. It also does not authorize removing pi-goals approval/tool-policy safeguards. Existing pi-goals has stricter result gating that requires a stopped view and quiet background state (`src/supervisor-session.ts:281-305`); retain it until ownership is decided.
|
||||
|
||||
## Hourly wake: package versus local timer
|
||||
|
||||
`pi-schedule-prompt` without `model` does wake the existing supervisor, not a new model: it calls `sendUserMessage(job.prompt,{deliverAs:"followUp"})` (`.../pi-schedule-prompt/src/scheduler.ts:227-243`). It supports session binding (`scheduler.ts:39-63`; `types.ts:51-52`), persists jobs in `.pi/schedule-prompts.json` (`storage.ts:6-15`), shows a widget (`index.ts:92-102`), and clears intervals on shutdown/reload (`scheduler.ts:68-86`; `index.ts:85-108,136-145`). It fires only while that Pi process is alive and leaves a persisted, old-session-bound job to be explicitly removed when supervision ends.
|
||||
|
||||
For this single fixed hourly wake, recommend **one local supervisor timer** plus a visible `next hourly review` status. It has no package/config/file ownership, is already the established pi-goals pattern (`src/index.ts:365-398`), and is stopped on session shutdown (`src/index.ts:897-899`). It should enqueue one coalesced follow-up, not interrupt a running review. Use schedule-prompt only if human-managed persistent schedules and its separate schedule widget are specifically desired; it cannot supply stop or plan-change events.
|
||||
|
||||
**Required human decision:** who may change plan/checkmarks and who owns final completion—worker, supervisor, or a split authority. Until that is explicit, preserve current plan/approval semantics and treat the supervisor’s partial read-only role as instruction, not a permission to alter shared state.
|
||||
|
||||
## Addendum — pair inspection and provenance (script contract)
|
||||
|
||||
A small **read-only** script in the edxeth fork can discover a directed parent→worker edge without another log system. Scan configured session roots; for each JSONL header, read `parentSession` and resolve it only when that exact parent path exists. Non-standalone child creation writes that link (`src/session/session-files.ts:110-130,133-151,178-190`), and launch preparation also passes it in `PI_SUBAGENT_PARENT_SESSION` (`src/launch/prep.ts:473-475`). Read the first valid `customType:"pi-subagents_launch_metadata"`; it is the launch record and includes timestamp, agent/name/title, mode/sessionMode, resolved model/thinking/model source, cwd, tools/extensions, and policy (`src/session/session-files.ts:25-87,277-288,337-366`). Output an edge keyed by absolute parent and child session paths, with those fields and explicit `pair-confidence: direct-lineage`.
|
||||
|
||||
This is deliberately not a universal historical pairing claim: `standalone` children, deleted/moved parent files, manually started Pi sessions, and multiple children of one parent have no unique supervisor/worker pair identifier. The script should list those as unpaired/ambiguous rather than infer from cwd, timestamps, pane names, or model. A supervisor fork also has a normal session `parentSession`; current pi-goals starts it with `--fork sourceSessionFile` (`src/herdr.ts:46-62`). That identifies lineage, not a durable worker-pair receipt. Role labels should come from an explicit configured agent-name mapping; they cannot safely be recovered from arbitrary historical prose.
|
||||
|
||||
**Separate usage.** Sum only `message.role === "assistant"` usage records in each session, separately. Preserve raw per-turn `input`, `output`, `cacheRead`, `cacheWrite`, `totalTokens`, optional `reasoning`, and provider cost when present; use `totalTokens` *or*, if absent, the component sum—never both (the package uses that fallback, `src/session/session.ts:108-132`). For a `fork` worker, begin after its launch-metadata marker: the source explicitly warns that earlier entries are inherited parent history (`src/session/session-files.ts:317-335`). Do not add a child total into the parent, sum context snapshots, or treat parent prompt tokens copied into a fork as separate worker inference. Report missing usage as unknown, not zero.
|
||||
|
||||
**Launch-only provenance.** Existing headers’ `version:3` is session schema (`session-files.ts:120-128`), and current launch metadata has no Pi version, loaded-extension package version/source commit, or git dirty snapshot. A later `package.json` (v2.9.0 here) or `git rev-parse` describes the filesystem now, not what ran. At launch, append one compact immutable `pi-subagents:provenance:v1` entry to each side: Pi version; extension package name/version/source; extension fork commit and dirty boolean (plus optional diff hash); worker cwd repo HEAD and dirty boolean; and agent-definition/prompt content hash. Historical records lacking it must say **unknown**.
|
||||
|
||||
For behavior review, default export should be bounded and deterministic: pair identifiers/paths, metadata/provenance, usage totals, then chronological timestamps, role, message id, stop reason/error, tool name, and text excerpts (for example 2,000 chars/entry and 100 KB/pair). Omit thinking and full tool arguments/results by default; preserve entry ids and source paths so a reviewer can inspect exact raw JSONL. This supports judgment without pretending an excerpt is complete evidence or building a second lifecycle/logging framework.
|
||||
|
||||
-- Pi/OpenAI
|
||||
@@ -0,0 +1,53 @@
|
||||
# Visible worker trial and design interview
|
||||
|
||||
## Observed trial
|
||||
|
||||
- pi-goals branch: `experiment/main-supervisor-visible-worker`, created from `2a7c490eb9e1a2455d1b34e9d184a4ab13c75d77`; pre-existing dirty files preserved. Other same-checkout session acknowledged the branch change.
|
||||
- Candidate: edxeth/pi-subagents v2.9.0, `953c6f6d2fc7d8a5c956c30cd77c51bad697c2a4`, loaded from its previously inspected temporary source clone.
|
||||
- No package installation or global settings change. Temporary profile: `/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5/profile`. It loads only this candidate extension and reuses existing credentials/catalog through symlinks; no credentials in this report.
|
||||
- Temporary Git repo: `/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5/repo`.
|
||||
- Parent: Herdr `w8:p63`, agent name `edxeth-trial`, OpenAI Codex Terra medium. Child: `w8:p64`, Fireworks DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731. Both are real interactive Pi processes.
|
||||
- Parent startup used the temporary profile and `pi --offline --no-skills --no-prompt-templates --no-context-files --no-approve --model openai-codex/gpt-5.6-terra --thinking medium --name 'edxeth trial supervisor'`.
|
||||
- Parent delegated the small TypeScript demo. Child created `hello.ts` and `verify.log`; parent did not implement them. I read both files. Saved verification contains: `byte-exact match: PASS` and `output: "Hello, World!"`.
|
||||
- Evidence: [worker capture](worker.txt), [worker ANSI capture](worker.ansi), [supervisor capture](supervisor.txt). These show normal Pi messages, tool output and a fenced TypeScript result. No screenshot was generated.
|
||||
- User observation: "oh i see the subagent go, it's looking goo so far".
|
||||
- Intervention: child was explicitly instructed not to call `subagent_done`, so the user could inspect its pane. This is a UI preview, NOT a test of automatic completion, parent wake, restart, reload, compaction, or sign-off.
|
||||
- Parent session: `/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5/profile/sessions/--tmp-pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5-repo--/2026-09-10T01-35-13-055Z_01a088f4-649f-72be-98d4-2fac04240dd4.jsonl`.
|
||||
- Worker session: `/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5/profile/sessions/--tmp-pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5-repo--/2026-09-10T01-35-45-560Z_78e1b19f-b106837a-d9a7fe20-a349.jsonl`.
|
||||
|
||||
## Interview: user wording
|
||||
|
||||
> q1 1) on stop (without process or subagent running) 2) every 60 minutes 3) on check of or change in plan
|
||||
> note if we want to be simple we can use pi-scheduled prompt to tell supervisor to check in?
|
||||
> how will supervisor view subagent in token efficient way?
|
||||
|
||||
> q2 hmm i was thinking the worker does but yeah in this model maybe the supervisor... it's just I wanted an independant check where the supervisor is on a ralph loop and has perspective, perhaps read only (or partial)
|
||||
|
||||
> q3 yes we can patch if needed, hopefully we don't need to
|
||||
|
||||
> if we have to patch it might be easier to patch or extent the main subagent packages idlk
|
||||
|
||||
## Preference summary (user wording now recorded in AGENTS.md)
|
||||
|
||||
- Main conversation is the stronger supervisor; cheaper workers do implementation in separate contexts.
|
||||
- Human sees full interactive worker Pi panes with normal Markdown/code rendering, not raw transcript inspectors. Supervisor judgment/messages remain visible too.
|
||||
- Review after worker stops with no active background work, every 60 minutes, and when plan checkboxes or content change. Clarify whether "check of" also includes an explicit manual review request.
|
||||
- Independent supervisor judgment and autonomous continuation remain required. Plan ownership and scope of read-only restrictions are not settled.
|
||||
- Prefer editable prompts and existing subagent/scheduling capabilities over custom lifecycle code. Patches are acceptable if needed; edxeth is a candidate, not an irrevocable package choice.
|
||||
|
||||
## Proposed design, not yet approved
|
||||
|
||||
- pi-schedule-prompt can deliver a session-bound `1h` interval with no model override, waking the existing supervisor instead of creating a stateless judge. Source: installed `src/scheduler.ts` uses `sendUserMessage(job.prompt, { deliverAs: "followUp" })`; schedules fire only while Pi is open. This does not supply stop/plan-change events.
|
||||
- Supervisor reads a bounded factual worker update: active work, last substantive message, changed paths, verification paths, and plan changes. Inspect the produced files, saved verification output, and relevant source lines or worker messages when needed; worker summaries are claims, not independent checks. Cross-session background activity reporting is an unresolved integration contract.
|
||||
- Proposed partial read-only role: supervisor may inspect project state and update the plan/verdict, but delegates implementation. No decision yet to remove exact-state approval checks.
|
||||
|
||||
## Lifecycle test and runner failures
|
||||
|
||||
- [Lifecycle report](interactive-lifecycle.md): direct worker input, model picker and Escape cancellation worked. A naturally finished manual worker stayed open but did not trigger parent verification. `/tree`, resume, fast completion and background-work conditions remain untested.
|
||||
- [Actual reload capture](lifecycle-captures/parent-reload-final.txt): `Error: This extension ctx is stale after session replacement or reload.` The stack reaches `running-registry.ts:255` through `updateWidget`. Reload closed the worker and crashed the parent. This is separate from the test-runner failure below.
|
||||
- [Runtime/script review](minimal-runtime-contract.md): identifies missing settled-turn notification and live steering, recommends one hourly timer, and specifies session-pair discovery, per-session usage and launch provenance. These are source-based recommendations, not implemented behavior.
|
||||
- Current Nicobailon runner: both original children ended `Request was aborted` after saving their reports, receiving queued follow-ups, and beginning another request. For lifecycle run `16e3531f-4ecd-4535-9e09-09e2f86daf61`, the session records final output at `01:54:44.336Z`, follow-up at `01:54:44.338Z`, then abort at `01:54:45.339Z`. A follow-up timing defect is plausible; the cause is unconfirmed. The workflow completion notification does not make these child statuses successful.
|
||||
- Reviewer follow-up recovered through same-protocol resume as `dcd54919-94e7-4cf0-8901-c985cde9920a`; its script addendum is saved. No lifecycle retry was needed to recover the already-written report. No alternate executor was used.
|
||||
- Repository check after failure: branch `experiment/main-supervisor-visible-worker`, HEAD `2a7c490eb9e1a2455d1b34e9d184a4ab13c75d77`; existing dirty files preserved, no `src/` or `test/` changes, candidate checkout clean. Only isolated test workspace `w9` was cleaned up; the original demo panes were not touched.
|
||||
|
||||
-- Pi/OpenAI
|
||||
@@ -0,0 +1,41 @@
|
||||
|
||||
pi v0.85.1
|
||||
escape interrupt · ctrl+c/ctrl+d clear/exit · / commands ·
|
||||
! bash · ctrl+o more
|
||||
Press ctrl+o to show full startup help and loaded
|
||||
resources.
|
||||
|
||||
Pi can explain its own features and look up its docs. Ask
|
||||
it how to use or extend Pi.
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
[Context]
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5/profile/APPEND_SYSTEM.md
|
||||
|
||||
[Extensions]
|
||||
src
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
Try the visible worker UI now. Use subagent to launch
|
||||
exactly one trial-worker, name ui-worker, title "Visible
|
||||
TypeScript worker demo". Its task: in this disposable repo
|
||||
create hello.ts exporting a greet(name: string) function
|
||||
returning Hello, ${name}!; run a byte-exact check with
|
||||
installed Node, save its output to verify.log, then show
|
||||
the function in a fenced TypeScript block and the check
|
||||
result in normal Markdown. No installs, publishing,
|
||||
real-project edits, or extra agents. Ask it to leave its
|
||||
Pi pane open for user inspection and not call subagent_done yet. Delegate all edits; do not implement the task yourself. This is only a UI preview, not proof of
|
||||
autonomous lifecycle or recovery. After launch yield to
|
||||
the user.
|
||||
▸ Spawn ui-worker (trial-worker) ## Objective
|
||||
In this disposable repository, create `hello.ts` exporting
|
||||
exactly a TypeScript function `greet(name: string)` that returns ``Hello, ${name}!``.
|
||||
## Required work 1. Create `hello.ts` with the requested export. 2. Using the already-installed Node runtime (no installs),
|
||||
run a byte-exact check of the function's output and save that check's output to `verify.log`. 3. In your response, show the function in a fenced
|
||||
`typescript` block and show the check result in normal Markdown.
|
||||
## Constraints - Do not install packages, publish anything, access or edit any real project, or launch agents.
|
||||
... (3 more lines, ctrl+o to expand)
|
||||
● Agents · 1 running · 26.3s └─ ◝ ui-worker [trial-worker] · 5 tool uses · 4.6K/1M... Visible TypeScript worker demo · fireworks/accou...
|
||||
Done. Both tasks are complete in the disposable ... ────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5/repo (main) • edxeth tr...↑3.5k ↓265 $0.010 (sub) 1.4%/272k (auto) gpt-5.6-terra • me
|
||||
@@ -0,0 +1,27 @@
|
||||
[0m[38;2;128;128;128m```text[0m
|
||||
input: greet('World')
|
||||
output: "Hello, World!"
|
||||
expected: "Hello, World!"
|
||||
output bytes:
|
||||
[72,101,108,108,111,44,32,87,111,114,108,100,33] (13
|
||||
bytes)
|
||||
byte-exact match: PASS
|
||||
[0m[38;2;128;128;128m```[0m
|
||||
|
||||
The output [0m[38;2;138;190;183mHello, World![0m matches the expected string
|
||||
byte-for-byte (13 UTF-8 bytes: [0m[38;2;138;190;183m72 101 108 108 111 44 32 87 [0m
|
||||
[0m[38;2;138;190;183m111 114 108 100 33[0m), and the check exited with code 0
|
||||
([0m[38;2;138;190;183mPASS[0m). The temporary check script was removed, leaving
|
||||
only [0m[38;2;138;190;183mhello.ts[0m and [0m[38;2;138;190;183mverify.log[0m as untracked additions.
|
||||
|
||||
I'll stay in this pane and wait — let me know if you'd
|
||||
like any changes.
|
||||
|
||||
— Pi/DeepSeek
|
||||
|
||||
[0m[38;2;138;190;183m▸[0m [0m[38;2;138;190;183mAgent[0m [0m[1mui-worker[0m[38;2;128;128;128m (trial-worker)[0m
|
||||
[0m[38;2;129;162;190m────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────[0m
|
||||
[0m[7m [0m
|
||||
[0m[38;2;129;162;190m────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────[0m
|
||||
[0m[38;2;102;102;102m/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5/repo (main) • [trial-wo...[0m
|
||||
[0m[38;2;102;102;102m↑4.3k ↓1.8k R14k CH94.2% $0.002 0.5%/1.0M (auto) accounts/f[0m
|
||||
@@ -0,0 +1,100 @@
|
||||
const expected = 'Hello, World!';
|
||||
const actual = greet('World');
|
||||
|
||||
const actualBuf = Buffer.from(actual, 'utf8');
|
||||
const expectedBuf = Buffer.from(expected, 'utf8');
|
||||
const byteExact = actualBuf.equals(expectedBuf);
|
||||
|
||||
const result = [
|
||||
`input: greet('World')`,
|
||||
`output: ${JSON.stringify(actual)}`,
|
||||
`expected: ${JSON.stringify(expected)}`,
|
||||
`output bytes: ${JSON.stringify([...actualBuf])}
|
||||
(${actualBuf.length} bytes)`,
|
||||
`byte-exact match: ${byteExact ? 'PASS' : 'FAIL'}`,
|
||||
].join('\n');
|
||||
|
||||
console.log(result);
|
||||
process.exitCode = byteExact ? 0 : 1;
|
||||
EOF
|
||||
node _check.mjs > verify.log 2>&1; code=$?
|
||||
cat verify.log
|
||||
echo "---node exit code: $code---"
|
||||
rm _check.mjs
|
||||
ls -la
|
||||
|
||||
... (10 earlier lines, ctrl+o to expand)
|
||||
drwx------ 4 code code 4096 Sep 10 09:34 ..
|
||||
drwxrwxr-x 8 code code 4096 Sep 10 09:35 .git
|
||||
-rw-rw-r-- 1 code code 76 Sep 10 09:35 hello.ts
|
||||
-rw-rw-r-- 1 code code 184 Sep 10 09:34 README.md
|
||||
-rw-rw-r-- 1 code code 183 Sep 10 09:36 verify.log
|
||||
|
||||
Took 0.1s
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
Both checks pass. Let me verify the final files are
|
||||
correct.
|
||||
|
||||
Both files are in place. Let me confirm the final state of
|
||||
the repository:
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
$ cd /tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5/repo && echo "===
|
||||
hello.ts ===" && cat hello.ts && echo "" && echo "===
|
||||
verify.log ===" && cat verify.log && echo "=== git status
|
||||
===" && git status --short
|
||||
|
||||
... (11 earlier lines, ctrl+o to expand)
|
||||
bytes)
|
||||
byte-exact match: PASS
|
||||
=== git status ===
|
||||
?? hello.ts
|
||||
?? verify.log
|
||||
|
||||
Took 0.0s
|
||||
|
||||
|
||||
Done. Both tasks are complete in the disposable repo.
|
||||
|
||||
The function (hello.ts)
|
||||
|
||||
```typescript
|
||||
export function greet(name: string): string {
|
||||
return `Hello, ${name}!`;
|
||||
}
|
||||
```
|
||||
|
||||
Byte-exact check result (verify.log)
|
||||
|
||||
The check ran with the pre-installed Node v22.23.2 runtime
|
||||
(its native TypeScript type-stripping, no installs) and
|
||||
saved its output to verify.log:
|
||||
|
||||
```text
|
||||
input: greet('World')
|
||||
output: "Hello, World!"
|
||||
expected: "Hello, World!"
|
||||
output bytes:
|
||||
[72,101,108,108,111,44,32,87,111,114,108,100,33] (13
|
||||
bytes)
|
||||
byte-exact match: PASS
|
||||
```
|
||||
|
||||
The output Hello, World! matches the expected string
|
||||
byte-for-byte (13 UTF-8 bytes: 72 101 108 108 111 44 32 87
|
||||
111 114 108 100 33), and the check exited with code 0
|
||||
(PASS). The temporary check script was removed, leaving
|
||||
only hello.ts and verify.log as untracked additions.
|
||||
|
||||
I'll stay in this pane and wait — let me know if you'd
|
||||
like any changes.
|
||||
|
||||
— Pi/DeepSeek
|
||||
|
||||
▸ Agent ui-worker (trial-worker)
|
||||
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
|
||||
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
|
||||
/tmp/pi-goals-edxeth-trial-YxPEE5/repo (main) • [trial-wo...
|
||||
↑4.3k ↓1.8k R14k CH94.2% $0.002 0.5%/1.0M (auto) accounts/f
|
||||
Reference in New Issue
Block a user