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113 lines
6.5 KiB
Markdown
113 lines
6.5 KiB
Markdown
## What to do if you have a one shot full proof Path to Victory
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* Author: u/rationalidurr *If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight!**
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* URL: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2e3y3e/if_you_knew_the_next_thing_you_attempted_would/cjvx2vn
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* Score: 8
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* Created: 2014-08-21T10:01:52
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### Post:
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[Link to content](http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2e3y3e/if_you_knew_the_next_thing_you_attempted_would/cjvx2vn)
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### Comments:
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> **u/Chronophilia** [+12] *sci-fi ≠ futurology* (an hour later)
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>
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> Giving the drug to a thousand people, because you think you can determine who deserves to live and who deserves to die? permaTruth is thinking along the right lines, but he overestimates his own intelligence.
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>
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> Give the drug out for free to everybody? Better, but that would start the mother of all wars. Last chance to assassinate your enemies, everybody! Better hurry up and nuke Pyongyang, it won't work this time next week!
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>
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> So, make everybody immortal, at the same time, in secret with no warning. Oh, and as quickly as possible. I think that would be my wish.
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>> **u/JackStargazer** [+3] *Primordial Apologist* (a day later)
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>>
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>> Gotta agree. He wasn't even specific enough for it to be worth it. He didn't make himself smarter, or make it easier to gain information. He chose to only create enough Elixir of Life to serve a small population, ensuring most of humanity will miss out. All in all, it is a huge wasted opportunity that - at *best* - creates a real Illuminati or ra!Wheel Group.
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> **u/Zephyr1011** [+10] *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity* (49 minutes later)
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>
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> This just seems too broken to be particularly interesting. Ascending to godhood, becoming omnipotent, or anything like that are guaranteed to work, and render anything else useless
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>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+2] *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (19 hours later)
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>>
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>> Well... how exactly would you go about trying to become omnipotent?
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>>
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>> This is a distinct power to the *Path to Victory*, because it just makes your attempt work - it doesn't allow for any kind of feedback or give you any help in planning how to go about it. It also doesn't help you select a worthwhile goal...
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>>> **u/Zephyr1011** [+3] *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity* (21 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> I'd become omnipotent by saying that I am now omnipotent. It has to work.
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> **u/None** [+8] (3 minutes later)
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>
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> Is there a no-Munchkining rule in effect that says I can't just design an FAI with 0% chance of failure?
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>> **u/Chronophilia** [+6] *sci-fi ≠ futurology* (7 hours later)
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>>
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>> Skip the FAI middleman, just make everything be perfect forever.
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>>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+1] *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (19 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> How would you attempt to do that? What defines perfection? What about the importance of growth and change?
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>>>> **u/Chronophilia** [+3] *sci-fi ≠ futurology* (a day later)
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>>>>
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>>>> I don't know, but rigorously defining perfection is essentially equivalent to creating an FAI. Or at least, it's equivalent to writing the utility function that will make the difference between an UFAI and an FAI.
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>>>>
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>>>> Creating FAI is a step in a process, not the end-goal. The end-goal is to **SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS EVERYWHERE**, and if that sounds poorly-defined, I think FAI is poorly-defined too.
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>>>>
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>>>> If you get one wish, why would you ask for something that will get you what you want, rather than asking for what you want directly? It seems to add an unnecessary step to the plan, and a possible point of failure.
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>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+1] *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (3 hours later)
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>>
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>> No. The thing I would attempt is to create a strong general friendly recursively-self-improving AI, running on Amazon / Google / Microsoft Web services. I figure that it should be able to pay for its running costs pretty quickly, become absurdly resilient, and turn into something well beyond a Culture Mind.
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>>
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>> This is only because I'm not sure how one would go about trying to make a 0 percent chance of failure on the next action a permanent effect. It might even be *stronger* than Path to Victory in the very short term, though it doesn't have the Thinker part that helps formulate goals and that would probably ruin the long game.
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>>> **u/None** [+1] (16 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> > I figure that it should be able to pay for its running costs pretty quickly
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>>>
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>>> Unless it's more efficient to seize control of the datacenter, or find another way of operating that doesn't require it to earn money, et cetera.
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>>>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+1] *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (16 hours later)
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>>>>
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>>>> Or otherwise not require my support for long after the period of infallibility ends, yeah.
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>> **u/rationalidurr** [+1] *If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight!* (14 minutes later)
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>>
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>> It appears to be common thing in these sort of threads for other posters to add clauses and drawbacks, like this guy
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>>
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>> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2e3y3e/if_you_knew_the_next_thing_you_attempted_would/cjw84z7
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>>
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>> here for example.
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>>
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>> So I guess you could go for the end all FAI, but it might incur an equal or greater drawback. Randomly generated black holes or the world being a simulation used by an alien mind to best defeat humanity or some such.
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>>> **u/None** [+3] (16 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> There are two main families of drawbacks in these situations: unintended consequences and randomly interjected punishments. Unintended consequences are fun to think about. They're sometimes reasonable things to be concerned about when actually implementing things like you wished for or envisioned. Random punishments are just annoyances.
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>>>
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>>> Examples:
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>>>
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>>> > "I wish I had a huge fortune!"
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>>> >
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>>> > "Done. You got it when all your friends and relatives died simultaneously. Also, the IRS is investigating you."
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>>>
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>>> Versus:
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>>>
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>>> > "I wish I had a huge fortune!"
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>>> >
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>>> > "Done. Now you have cancer."
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> **u/rationalidurr** [+2] *If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight!* (a minute later)
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>
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> Thought it was interesting enough for this subreddit. Not the random person testing so much as dedicating your life to scientific research
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> **u/None** [+2] (16 hours later)
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>
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> Nitpick: it's generally "fool proof". Though considering the person you linked is talking about creating a beverage, "full proof" would indicate its alcohol content is 100%.
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---
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