scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/2joeyy.md

## Following the Phoenix, Chapter 17: Nihil Supernum Part 4

* Author: u/Zephyr1011  *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity**
* URL: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10636246/17/Following-the-Phoenix
* Score: 21

* Created: 2014-10-19T08:21:03

### Post:

[Link to content](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10636246/17/Following-the-Phoenix)

### Comments:

> **u/None** [+3]  (2 days later)
> 
> >*Figures,* he thought, *Harry never did care much about rules.*
> 
> "The chance of this spell succeeding was 0%, but I guess theoretical calculations mean nothing with you."
> 
> Also, strolling right in undetected and dropping a mind-virus in the middle of a courtroom?  TROLL QUIRRELMORT IS TROLLING YOU BETTER.

> **u/RMcD94** [+2]  (9 hours later)
> 
> Still not a fan of the instant comprehension that stops people casting Patronus, people can't partial transfiguration without innately comprehending the universe at that level, but at the word of some strange they instantly are devolved of their entire previous world beliefs hammered in since birth.

>> **u/Zephyr1011** [+3]  *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity* (9 hours later)
>> 
>> Partial Transfiguration and the Patronus are completely distinct things. Patronuses work by thinking happy thoughts which distract you from thinking about death, so being told that they are death stops you being able to do that, since deliberately distracting yourself is incredibly difficult. Partial Transfiguration operates off of completely different mechanics and is to do with world beliefs, while the basic Patronus is not

>>> **u/RMcD94** [+5]  (9 hours later)
>>> 
>>> >so being told that they are death stops you being able to do that, since deliberately distracting yourself is incredibly difficult
>>> 
>>> There is absolutely no way that distracting yourself from a thought is harder than distracting yourself FROM ACTUAL FEELINGS OF FEAR AND HORROR AND SCREAMS OF YOUR PARENTS DEATH, since all of those are also thoughts but + actual real physical effects.
>>> 
>>> There's also the incredibly nonsense idea that no one has ever mentioned the word death in the entire history of all people using patronus ever, or thought about it (for example a lot of peoples worse memories will be of death which would mean they could never cast a patronus).

>>>> **u/ArisKatsaris** [+6]  *Sidebar Contender* (11 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Don't shout at people, it's rude.
>>>> 
>>>> Nobody ever said that these people aren't allowed to have ever thought of death, it's whether they can distract themselves from such thoughts that is the issue.
>>>> 
>>>> People like Harry, Hermione and Padma weren't good at so distracting themselves, so they couldn't cast Patronus v1.0

>>>> **u/rp20** [+4]  (10 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> And few people can cast it.

>>>> **u/Iconochasm** [+3]  (16 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> >(for example a lot of peoples worse memories will be of death which would mean they could never cast a patronus).
>>>> 
>>>> People very often fail to cast a Patronus while under the effects of a dementor.

>>>>> **u/RMcD94** [+0]  (22 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> But it's not a constant instant failure from every auror whose worst memories are even more likely to be a death, or again any mention of it ever

>>>>>> **u/Iconochasm** [+3]  (a day later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There's a large difference between thinking of death, having your worst memory be of death, versus knowing to specifically connect the dementor to death.  The first two are things you can push out of your head by summoning a happy thought of life to banish the fear monster.  Happy thoughts don't do shit against a *death monster*, unless they are a very specific, rare kind of happy thought.

>>>>>>> **u/RMcD94** [+0]  (a day later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But that presumes that everyone immediately took what he said at face value and truth as well as instantly comprehending the link between seeing dementors as death something that they have believed their entire life was not the case, and then never being possible to not think that.  Imagining me telling you that Santa was actually Hitler, how nonsensical it is. This whole Death sucks and if you think that you can't be happy any more ever it's just one huge circlejerk because we all hate Death

>>>>>>>> **u/Zephyr1011** [+2]  *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity* (a day later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> >This whole Death sucks and if you think that you can't be happy any more ever it's just one huge circlejerk because we all hate Death
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This is an obvious Strawman, and nobody in this conversation has ever supported that position
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> And, if you had told me that Santa Claus was Hitler but that I should not think this when I next think of Santa, that would be very hard to do. Regardless of whether or not it is true, or if I believe it. Sure, given time, that association might fade. However, if the knowledge given is demonstrated to be true by my inability to cast the Patronus, that will just reinforce it and make it incredibly hard to ignore

>>>>>>>>> **u/RMcD94** [+0]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Considering this is a community based on immorality I think my point that you are bias to view death being the biggest baddest is more than enough for people to start rationalising, so I disagree that my circlejerk comment is irrelevant. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> As I've said repeatedly the whole function of a patronus involves ignoring thoughts you have, there is literally nothing better suited to not being instantly cancelled by a thought, also note it was at the same time for everyone meaning no one was distracted or had a slower thought process everyone instantly connected death and dementors in their mind. Considering all of these people have spent their lives ignoring the screaming of their family and friends dying to cast a patronus it's just so absurd to think that thought of death (would it work on a child who can't comprehend death, do these people really comprehend death if they aren't immortalists) is so special that it instantly evaporates years of hard cognitive dissonance

>>>>>>>>>> **u/None** [+2]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Fix your grammar, your capitalization, your punctuation, and your spelling:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> >Considering this is a community based on immor**t**ality I think my point that you are bias to view death being the biggest baddest is more than enough for people to start rationalising, so I disagree that my circlejerk comment is irrelevant. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> At least, I hope that was a spelling error.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Point being, speak coherently, or get removed.

>>>>>>>>>>> **u/Putnam3145** [+2]  (3 days later)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> > Fix your grammar, your capitalism, your punctuation, and your spelling
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Er, since we're on the subject, I figure I should say that you probably want them to fix their *capitali(s|z)ation* instead of their capitalism.

>>>>>>>>>>>> **u/None** [+1]  (3 days later)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Goddamnit, muscle memory.

>>>> **u/tilkau** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> > There's also the incredibly nonsense idea that no one has ever mentioned the word death in the entire history of all people using patronus ever, or thought about it (for example a lot of peoples worse memories will be of death which would mean they could never cast a patronus).
>>>> 
>>>> That's not necessary. If you are a historian, do you choose to point a loaded gun at your descendents, or do you lie?
>>>> The idea of patronuses being death would be largely erased from history.
>>>> 
>>>> As for the last part, that would be true of some, but there are plenty of egocentric people for whom, well, the memory *features* death, but what makes it their worst memory is simply that they feel bad.

>> **u/ajuc** [+3]  (12 hours later)
>> 
>> The next time you press Space don't think of pink rabbit.
>> 
>> And in this case thinking of pink rabbit makes pressing space impossible.

>>> **u/E-o_o-3** [+3]  (19 hours later)
>>> 
>>> icould ...ok, I was planning to reply to your comment that it is possible since pressing space is such an ingrained habbit that I could easily do it automatically without even thinking of anything, and I was going to do that without spaces, but then I accidentally pressed space. Does that count?
>>> 
>>> (It's similar to how you can leave the stove on when you leave the house, even if you resolve to think of the stove next time you touch the front doornob)

>>>> **u/ajuc** [+2]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> Ok, bad example. You're right it's muscle memory. But you know what I meant.
>>>> 
>>>> BTW - I've noticed that making "notes to myself" in head works for me lik 90% of the time, if I visualize myself geting the note in the future in proper circumstances, like "I will get a note that I should buy a tea when I will get out of bus after geting back from work today".

>> **u/E-o_o-3** [+1]  (19 hours later)
>> 
>> That would require HPMoR!Harry being horribly wrong. (Which is fine, I guess, but narratively tricky since you have to show FoP!Harry reacting to being horribly wrong)

> **u/super__nova** [+1]  *Working on taking over the world like Elon Musk* (3 hours later)
> 
> Damn, that's good!

> **u/None** [+1]  (7 hours later)
> 
> Bloody hell, I'm still stuck back on Chapter 8 where Harry tries to play Kamina.

> **u/Zephyr1011** [+1]  *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity* (10 hours later)
> 
> What is meant by Gryffindor Head Girl? There is only one head girl, not one for each house. Unless they meant Gryffindor prefect?

>> **u/Iconochasm** [+3]  (16 hours later)
>> 
>> Maybe just "Head Girl who was a Gryffindor?"  Or author slip.

>> **u/eltegid** [+0]  (a day later)
>> 
>> Prefect most probably

---