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169 lines
8.8 KiB
Markdown
169 lines
8.8 KiB
Markdown
## Following the Phoenix Chapter 101: Knowing the Enemy
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* Author: u/None *
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* URL:
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* Score: 20
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* Created: 2014-11-08T13:23:37
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### Post:
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[Link to content]()
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### Comments:
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> **u/Jon_Freebird** [+4] (3 hours later)
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>
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> So, if Harry is a horcrux (as he is in cannon) why isn't he indestructible?
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>
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> EDIT: Or at least only vulnerable to Basilisk venom and feyndfire.
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>> **u/l_ugray** [+3] (4 hours later)
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>>
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>> We currently have no evidence either way as to his destructibility.
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>>> **u/Jon_Freebird** [+1] (4 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> Should be relatively easy to test though.
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>>>> **u/l_ugray** [+3] (4 hours later)
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>>>>
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>>>> Umm, no? In the event that Harry is destructible, any test results in his destruction - not a desirable outcome.
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>>>>> **u/Zephyr1011** [+1] *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity* (4 hours later)
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>>>>>
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>>>>> Well, if you cut him, then he should not be harmed if he is a Horcrux, because he'd be indestructible
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>>>>>> **u/l_ugray** [+2] (4 hours later)
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Canon!HP, a horcrux in a universe where they're indestructible by mundane means, was frequently damaged (but not destroyed) by mundane means. I don't see successfully cutting him as evidence that he's not a horcrux.
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>>>>>>> **u/Zephyr1011** [+2] *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity* (5 hours later)
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> When were non-Harry Horcruxes damaged by mundane means?
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>>>>>>>> **u/l_ugray** [+3] (23 hours later)
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> I'm reasonably certain they weren't, but then Harry was the only example of a human horcrux we've had. I guess since the characters are unaware of Canon!HP, they should interpret any successful damage to Harry as strong evidence for his not being a horcrux, but from our vantage point we should interpret it as weak evidence at best.
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>>>>>>>>> **u/None** [+1] (a day later)
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> Harry and Nagini were the living horcruxes
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>>>>> **u/Jon_Freebird** [+1] (9 hours later)
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>>>>>
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>>>>> Ok, say immune to casual damage. I'm not suggesting soaking him in basilisk venom but trying to cut him with a normal, non magical knife could prove illuminating and would be easy to heal.
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>> **u/E-o_o-3** [+2] (4 hours later)
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>>
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>> It could be that the host object is destructible, but the soul attachent isn't (so you can rip up the painting, but the soul can just go to another portrait - or you can tear up the diary, but one or more pieces still have the horcrux attached).
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>> **u/None** [+1] (4 hours later)
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>>
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>> In canon, his *scar* is a Horcrux, not *him*.
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>>> **u/ArisKatsaris** [+1] *Sidebar Contender* (9 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> I think that's false and that Harry himself is the Horcrux in canon.
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>> **u/JosephLeee** [+1] (19 hours later)
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>>
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>> Maybe horcruxes are indestructible because their creator made them indestructible? Like, doing a ritual that makes the object indestructible?
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>>> **u/Jon_Freebird** [+1] (21 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> That would be a useful ritual, I can just imagine robes/clothes acting as almost impenetrable armour with something like that.
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> **u/None** [+4] (4 hours later)
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>
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> So this was the chapter where we reference canon!HP all in the right order... and in which all the heroes go "OH FUCK" as they realize how thorough Quirrellmort really was.
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>
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> Also, dealing with this kind of villain is what the [Pandorica](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Pandorica) was made for: when your villain *might escape by dying*.
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> **u/eaglejarl** [+1] (2 hours later)
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>
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> Good chapter, as always.
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>
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> One question (which I put in a review, but I'll ask again here): As far as imprisoning Quirrel, doesn't Imperio take care of it? My impression of Imperio is that it allows long-term orders which the person will obey.
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>
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> Separate question: when this story first went up, it had a dot in place of a karma score. Even after I upvoted it, it still had the dot. Now I see a '4' as people have been voting it; what was up with that dot?
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>> **u/JackStargazer** [+1] *Primordial Apologist* (2 hours later)
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>>
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>> I think the dot is from when a post is first posted, to obfuscate the early up/downvotes.
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>>
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>> Imperio can be resisted with a strong enough opposed will. In canon even 14 year old Harry is basically immune to it after maybe 3 applications. Judging by Quirrel's overwhelming magical superiority to every other person ever shown, and with him knowing this spell in particular, I doubt he is vulnerable to it.
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>>
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>> If it's a learned response, then you simply Imperio someone into Imperioing you over and over with very menial orders until you learn to break it. Then you Obliviate the person you forced to help.
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>>
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>> Or, if you're Quirrel, likely just Avada Kedavra that person.
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>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1] (5 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> > Imperio can be resisted with a strong enough opposed will.
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>>>
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>>> Ah, fair point.
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>>>
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>>> Still, in order to bring your will to bear you need to be able to focus. Hit him with enough Confundus charms and / or whatever their version of a flashbang is and he won't be able to resist it.
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>>>
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>>> Alternately, use Obliviate to wipe his brain clean, or the False Memory Charm to turn him into a nice person.
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>>>> **u/JackStargazer** [+1] *Primordial Apologist* (10 hours later)
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>>>>
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>>>> False Memory Charms require as much time on the false memory as the actual memory would have taken to form. Replacing a day has a day cast time. You can't just give him a completely false life to change his personality without spending a literal life casting it.
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>>>>
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>>>> In the HPMOR fic, this was why they didn't believe Hermoine had been false memory charmed to hate Malfoy after the fake duel, because making that charm would have taken subjective days to cast (unless, as Harry points out, you false memory charmed an image that gave you a reason to hate and then obliviated THAT three days later, making it seem like you had an irrational hatred for those three days).
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>>>>
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>>>> I tentatively agree with the rest, but I'm not sure how Obliviate interacts with a Horcrux, and I'm not sure anything can actually get a dozen confundus charms through on Quirrel. He's been shown casually overpowering a hundred year old Dark Wizard hunter.
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>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1] (10 hours later)
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>>>>>
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>>>>> > I'm not sure how Obliviate interacts with a Horcrux,
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>>>>>
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>>>>> Well, Horcruxes (technically Horcruces, I suppose, but that sounds ridiculous) are all about the soul. Obliviate is about the mind, so I would *think* that it would work. Only the author knows for sure, though.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> > I'm not sure anything can actually get a dozen confundus charms through on Quirrel
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>>>>>
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>>>>> It should only take one Confundus charm, though -- once he's tagged with one, he's helpless and you can zap him as much as you want. Then you put him in prison and set up a squad to take it in turns zapping him every twenty minutes until forever.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> As to how to get that first one through...yeah, that's a bit of a sticky wicket. Maybe if Dumbledore can pin him down, then a whole passel of Aurors could blast him. Getting him into a situation where that's possible is, of course, the trick.
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>> **u/None** [+1] (4 hours later)
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>>
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>> Imperio is a constant drain of magic.
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>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1] (5 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> You could have people take turns, right?
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>>>> **u/None** [+1] (19 hours later)
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>>>>
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>>>> People can get tired. People can be bribed. And Quirrellmort will still have *some* power to think his own thoughts under all but the most powerful Imperio.
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>>>>
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>>>> If he can think, he is dangerous. It would be simpler to just subject him to noise torture.
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>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1] (20 hours later)
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>>>>>
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>>>>> > If he can think, he is dangerous. It would be simpler to just subject him to noise torture
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>>>>>
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>>>>> Makes sense. Or drug him. Or just kill him.
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> **u/RMcD94** [+0] (a day later)
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>
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> But he's got to care about people on some level, otherwise why would he care if the Muggles wiped out the magical world?
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>
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> He has a horcrux off the planet he has nothing to worry about. He doesn't only care about his own life otherwise he'd just trigger the nuclear war when he knows he personally is safe.
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>
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> > aligned with mine, but I don't like his methods,
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>
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> Not really relevant what his methods are if he's going to do them anyway.
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>
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> Why doesn't Harry just do what he wants then resign from dictatorship in an extremely public way which will stop him ever being able to do it again?
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>
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> Not "wanting" to conquer the Muggle world is hardly good rational, he wants to stop death, isn't that his ulterior goal? Seems like he's forgetting stuff by being bothered by having to do the day to day of ruling the world
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>
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> Also I can't possibly agree that he "just gets cynical about it" someone who just sees someone doing wrong and just gets cynical would never have successfully (so far) set up this huge chain of events to checkmate Harry before he's even moved a pawn.
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---
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