scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/2m3e1d.md

## [deleted by user]

* Author: u/None *
* URL: 
* Score: 25

* Created: 2014-11-12T18:13:52

### Post:

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### Comments:

> **u/eaglejarl** [+9]  (a minute later)
> 
> Folks were generous with the reviews and my muse was generous with the words, so I'm dropping a bonus chapter.  And yes, it's short.

>> **u/MoralRelativity** [+4]  (56 minutes later)
>> 
>> I was excited when I saw the new episode and you didn't disappoint. 
>> 
>> And... ANOTHER huge cliffhanger... What are the other gods going to do now?!?

>> **u/None** [+3]  (4 hours later)
>> 
>> Are we getting anywhere close to the end? I kinda don't want it to, but I'm feeling very denouementy this chapter.

>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+6]  (4 hours later)
>>> 
>>> I had originally been going to have to this be the end, yes. Then I realized I still have lots of story to tell, and I intend to write it. I'll probably call this the end of "Book I: The Drauga War" and will start into the next after I finish it. That said, there's still a few more chapters left to wrap up the details, so you'll keep getting drops for at least another month. 
>>> 
>>> (Aside: this should really be Books I-III, since 80,000 - 100,000 words is typical for a novel and I'm closing in on 300,000.)
>>> 
>>> I do have other things that I'm interested in writing, so there's some question about whether I'll go right into a sequel or take a break for other stuff first. You'll still keep getting weekly drops of SOMETHING, though.

>>>> **u/MoralRelativity** [+3]  (7 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> 300,000? Wow, it does not seem like that. But then, I didn't have to write it. :)
>>>> 
>>>> It's been a seriously fun ride and I'm deliriously happy to hear that there's more to come after this story-line is wrapped up.

>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+2]  (7 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> > 300,000? Wow, it does not seem like that. But then, I didn't have to write it. :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> FFN says:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Rated: Fiction T - English - Adventure/Fantasy - Chapters: 70 - **Words: 293,053** - Reviews: 693 - Favs: 380 - Follows: 443 - Updated: 7h ago - Published: Sep 8, 2013 - id: 9669819 "
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hard to believe, huh?  That's what you get after more than a year of weekly drops, I guess.

> **u/philip1201** [+8]  (an hour later)
> 
> I don't buy Suze's reason for keeping it secret. People shouldn't expect others to hand them opportunities on a silver platter, especially if it's something they could easily ask for themselves. Being a "servant" has nothing to do with it, if someone who has carte blanche to act with Imperial authority can even be considered a servant.
> 
> As a result, her resentment put the entire mission - and by extension the entire world - in danger. Nevermind that it's still stupid for a group with millennia of tactical experience between them, a median IQ and wisdom quotient^^TM of 200, not to expect a mindscrape when it's their opponent's signature move; once she had that realisation she should have informed the rest so they could all have hidden information from the Icefi's. It was only by the dumb luck of Neklos not bothering to perform the free action to capture Suze's soul like he had done with every other soul in the party that the mission wasn't a total failure.
> 
> However, the author has a history of plans within plans within plans. [My guess is](http://predictionbook.com/predictions/43636) that this is still not the innermost layer of the onion and Suze had more legitimate reasons for her actions. Besides, my tropey sense is tingling, saying the Goddess of Secrets still has to do something important to justify her existence in the narrative, so we can't be at the end yet and there are still secrets left to uncover.

>> **u/eaglejarl** [+3]  (7 hours later)
>> 
>> > not to expect a mindscrape
>> 
>> They *did* expect a Mindscrape.  They simply had nothing to hide, and they wanted Afi to see that -- they were there to help him get out from under Neklos.  There was nothing going on that he wouldn't be completely onboard with, so there was no need to muck with their own memories.

>>> **u/Law_Student** [+1]  (5 days later)
>>> 
>>> Giving Afi all of Jake's knowledge was probably a really bad idea...

>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (5 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> > Giving Afi all of Jake's knowledge was ~~probably~~ a really bad idea...
>>>> 
>>>> FTFY
>>>> 
>>>> Then again, it wasn't really their choice.

> **u/Chronophilia** [+8]  *sci-fi ≠ futurology* (15 minutes later)
> 
> >~Works for you. Also, just baaarely not jailbait. And half your age. Perv.~
> 
> To this list, I'd add "is a sixtieth-level spellcaster who could turn you into a dragon and probably still tear you in half with her bare hands".

>> **u/None** [+3]  (an hour later)
>> 
>> [deleted]

>>> **u/Chronophilia** [+3]  *sci-fi ≠ futurology* (an hour later)
>>> 
>>> I'm going to claim that I meant sixty caster levels, not sixty levels in total, and then I'm going to hide before you work out whether that's correct or not.

>>>> **u/None** [+4]  (2 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> [deleted]

>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+3]  (7 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'd like to see that build when you finish it.  Note that she said "wizard, sorceror, cleric, and rogue" but she's smart enough to keep secrets.  Those might not be all of (or in fact, ANY of) her classes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, she had carte blanche from Jake to have absolutely any and all standard or custom magic items that she wanted and there were more or less infinite Wishes available.  Go nuts.

>>>>>> **u/None** [+4]  (12 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [deleted]

>>>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (20 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cool. Very cool.  Thanks for putting it together. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  And yeah, I realize that under my rules it's hard to do real OP builds...that's kinda the point, actually. Simplifies my life as the writer when I don't have to try to figure out the most OP cheeseball build for Afi and can just say "he's stupid high level in all the casting classes. Done."

>>>>>>>> **u/None** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> [deleted]

>>>>>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, someone pointed me at that shirt a while ago.  It's pretty much the "haha, we win!" button though, so I've been reluctant to use it.

>> **u/ulyssessword** [+3]  (10 hours later)
>> 
>> >tear you in half with her bear hands
>> 
>> FTFY.  I bet she's a lvl 20 Druid too.

> **u/None** [+7]  (5 minutes later)
> 
> Thank for the unexpected surprise! 
> 
> Also, Jake wisdom bonus seriously isn't helping him, right?

>> **u/eaglejarl** [+6]  (10 minutes later)
>> 
>> > Also, Jake wisdom bonus seriously isn't helping him, right?
>> 
>> Odd, isn't it?

>>> **u/MadScientist14159** [+3]  *WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe.* (3 hours later)
>>> 
>>> POPEs don't affect him?

>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+2]  (4 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> He used Wishes to bump his INT and the POPEs are just packaged Wishes.

>>> **u/MoralRelativity** [+2]  (59 minutes later)
>>> 
>>> Wait. If that bonus isn't helping him then maybe his earlier intelligence bonuses weren't helping either. And that would mean...

>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+3]  (an hour later)
>>>> 
>>>> No, his earlier intelligence bonuses have been helping.

>>>>> **u/MoralRelativity** [+1]  (7 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Okay.... I'll stop pretending to understand that aspect and wait to see how it plays out then. Thanks.

>>>>>> **u/drageuth2** [+3]  (8 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The POPE is stated not to effect personality.  So it's just a buff on Jake's checks, more or less.

>>>>>>> **u/Zephyr1011** [+1]  *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity* (16 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Can he even make checks?

> **u/None** [+3]  (10 hours later)
> 
> [](#s "In other news, I just realized that all I ever do in TYE threads is upvote /u/eaglejarl's comments")

>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (2 days later)
>> 
>> [My](#s " karma and I thank you.")

> **u/Gurkenglas** [+3]  (an hour later)
> 
> Wouldn't it take only one Wish from a follower of Neklos to summon him back out of the time freeze?
> 
> (...could Neklos of in who knows how many eons use a Wish to turn back time by one subjective round? Edit: Ah, we just need to actually neutralize him before those eons are up.)

>> **u/eaglejarl** [+8]  (7 hours later)
>> 
>> > Wouldn't it take only one Wish from a follower of Neklos to summon him back out of the time freeze?
>> 
>> Gods are immune to "effects that...banish them"  My interpretation of this is that you can't move them around with mortal magic -- you can *ask* them to show up, but you can't *force* them.
>> 
>> But, if you don't like that reasoning, try this:
>> 
>> As a greater god, Neklos has spell resistance 32 + divine rank (20) = 52.  In order to move him with a Wish, you need to make a caster check to beat his spell resistance; unless you're level 32 in that class(*), you can't possibly do it.  (Note that you can't take 20 on the check, since you have to pay a cost to use Wish.)   Because of this, no one who hasn't gone through the FLEA is going to be able to Wish him out of the hole.  (Some of the Lich Kings might be an exception, but even they aren't going to have a great chance.)
>> 
>> Now, Neklos could lower his spell resistance to make this straightforward but that takes a standard action and he's currently trapped in a non-magical Temporal Stasis.  (He is immune to the magical version, but not to simple physics-based time dilation, just as he wouldn't be immune to the Flowing Time trait of a plane, if I were allowing those to exist.)
>> 
>> tl;dr  --  He can't be Wished out of the hole because he's a god and gods are immune to that.  Even if that *weren't* the case, it wouldn't be practical for any caster who actually exists.
>> 
>> (*)  From the SRD:  "To make a caster level check, roll 1d20 and add your caster level (in the relevant class)"  So, if you're Wizard20/Sorceror20, you only get to use 20 as your caster level.

>>> **u/JackStargazer** [+1]  *Primordial Apologist* (17 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Well, new!Afi has a mindscrape from the pwotagonists. He knows about FLEA now, and you can bet that he will use it to its fullest to hit max level.
>>> 
>>> Of course, there is a -50% chance he wants to do anything to bring Neklos back.

>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (20 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> He knows about FLEA and POPE and RAW and physics, actually. :>
>>>> 
>>>> Ane, actually FLEA works less well for him than for the heroes. Bumping a firsts level person to 60 is easy -- six Linnorms and you're done. Bumping someone who is already high level is much, much harder -- it requires hundreds of Linnorms, maybe thousands, to get the same effect. 
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, he can just PAO into a non-undead, drop levels with a negative-level-fail-save trick and go from there.

> **u/MadScientist14159** [+4]  *WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe.* (3 hours later)
> 
> Suze seemed a *little* unreasonable considering that the reason Jake didn't want her coming along was that as far as he knew she was level zero and couldn't do much to help, so it would have put her in unnecessary danger.
> 
> If she had explained Jake probably would have taken her willingly.
> 
> (Of course, this doesn't excuse him from not sending her through FLEA himself, as soon as it was convenient to do so.)

>> **u/eaglejarl** [+6]  (7 hours later)
>> 
>> > Suze seemed a little unreasonable considering that the reason Jake didn't want her coming along was that as far as he knew she was level zero and couldn't do much to help, so it would have put her in unnecessary danger.
>> 
>> Oh, she's not pissed at him about that.  Actually, she's not really pissed at *him* much at all, at least not in specific.  To the extent that she's angry with him, it's because he's treating her with the same type of thoughtlessness that all the other nobles do...but in his case he's always treated her well and she actually likes him, so that moderates the situation a lot.
>> 
>> No, she's fine with the fact that he didn't want to bring her along.

> **u/Prezombie** [+3]  (11 minutes later)
> 
> Considering I've read the Iron Druid Chronicles, and the exact same thing happened in that book (A true immortal god neutralized with extreme time dilation), I should've expected a similar response. (The bastard had friends who want him back.)

>> **u/eaglejarl** [+5]  (7 hours later)
>> 
>> Wait, what?
>> 
>> Damnit.  I had thought this was completely original.
>> 
>> *goes off and curses a LOT.  seriously*

>>> **u/None** [+4]  (7 hours later)
>>> 
>>> It's okay. Nothing's truly original. I'll bet you did it better, anyway.

>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+5]  (8 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> It just pisses me off.  I haven't managed to have an original idea in my freakin' *life*.  Every time I come up with something that I think is at least somewhat unique...nope!  Someone else already did it, haha!
>>>> 
>>>> I hadn't even *heard* of the Iron Druid series, or its author.  And, I mean, seriously -- trapping a god with time dilation???  Really?????!!  Someone had to preemptively steal that?
>>>> 
>>>> Ah well, I suppose I can't complain too much.  /u/drageuth2 was the one who originally thought of it, although I adapted it a bit.

>>>>> **u/aeschenkarnos** [+4]  (9 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Newton, meet Leibniz. Leibniz, this is Newton. I'm sure you two have lots to talk about.

>>>>>> **u/dhighway61** [+7]  (10 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Leibniz, my dear chap, your work is so derivative.

>>>>>>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+4]  *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (14 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ...whereas mine is integral to physics as we know them.

>>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+3]  (9 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Grumble grumble, stop being reasonable when I'm feeling pissy grumble grumble.

>>>>> **u/Prezombie** [+3]  (15 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> As another bonus, in IDC, the time dilation is purely magical, it's a portal to a portion of nir na nog which has slow time. You used TRUE time dilation, in the form of a singularity!

> **u/Gurkenglas** [+3]  (an hour later)
> 
> We've got them all right there! If Suze does the dilation trick with the Singularity again they can make a world free from gods. (Except possibly from Loki who probably only has a shadowclone here. (Because if you were him, you too would hide behind seven proxies.)) Just take a few days to wish all the creatures they don't want frozen in time to the place they escape to.

>> **u/alexanderwales** [+7]  *Time flies like an arrow* (an hour later)
>> 
>> If they've been listening to Suze talking to Jake, then they are probably prepared enough that it's impossible to get a surprise round. On top of that, the only reason the singularity didn't destroy the world is that it was unleashed onto a demiplane and not into the real world.

>>> **u/Gurkenglas** [+3]  (an hour later)
>>> 
>>> The planet won't be destroyed, just frozen in time, right? You could still extract all the people and make another planet elsewhere.

>>>> **u/notentirelyrandom** [+2]  (2 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> That is sort of true, from a certain point of view. But if they're *on* the planet at the time, it wouldn't be frozen relative to them. And it *also* destroys everything. Neklos only survives because he's a god and can just walk out immediately.

>>>>> **u/Gurkenglas** [+3]  (3 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> If they're on the planet at the time, the Singularity nigh-instantly consumes them and also they are nigh-instantly whisked away by the Wishes that tugged at them after a subjectively very short time.

>>>>>> **u/notentirelyrandom** [+1]  (8 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> OK, I see how that could work. It'd depend on the time scales, and I'd be kind of surprised if it does. Let me check the numbers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Suppose you create the singularity 10m above you. (Above is so that it's equidistant from the gods surrounding you, which probably does not matter but is conveniently symmetrical.) You have 3.33x10^-8 seconds to live, your time. How much time passes on the outside is a function of the mass of the singularity...*and you can make up a number as big as you need it to be*. I forgot about that part. Guess I don't need to look up time dilation equations after all.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So you're right. If this works, they could survive doing it. Do they have any Wish-capable allies off that plane who would know that's what they need to try?

>>>>>>> **u/Gurkenglas** [+1]  (8 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If Suze is the one to do the trick, she can just do the Wishing herself. (Starting with teleporting in other Wishmages for exponential growth, of course.)

>>>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (9 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Actually, Wish can transport you to anywhere on any plane.  A black hole of a billion solar masses won't even eat the solar system, so you could safely teleport away to "a location on the nearest planet that satisfies the condition: the arrival location must have an environment no more than three percent different from my current location in any measurable environmental detail related to my survival and comfort"

>>>>>>>> **u/notentirelyrandom** [+1]  (10 hours later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Do they know that there is another habitable planet? It'd suck if they got teleported to the same planet, or some place where the strong nuclear force is 3% stronger.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Also, can you do both a Wish and a black hole simultaneously with both taking zero time?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Oh, and what if one of the gods has a Readied Action for if a mortal tries casting? Would that allow them to do something in zero time and escape?
>>>>>>>> (I knew a thing! Thanks SirPoley!)

>>>>>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (11 hours later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The Summoning ritual used by Flobovia to find their rulers makes it clear that there are multiple versions of the Prime Material out there.  (This used to be part of D&D cosmology.  Not sure if it is still canon, but it is for 2YE.)  The operating assumption is that this is a Copenhagen model of QM, so the number of Prime Material variants is effectively infinite, and each universe is the size of our own.  In total, this means that there is an infinite number of planets, some percentage of which are habitable.  Therefore, there are an infinite number of habitable planets.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Wish can transport you anywhere on any plane, so all of these worlds are reachable.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Yes, you can do both a Wish and a black hole with zero time between them.  You just do what Suze did:  use readied actions.  In her case she used a Celerity spell to give herself a readied action after already taking an action; that works, but you could also just have two people cooperating.  Better yet, you can REALLY go nuts:  two people are cooperating.  Each has both a readied action and a Celerity which gives them ANOTHER readied action!   Anyway, yes:  you cast the Wish then, using a readied action, you cast the PAO:X-to-singularity.  The PAO resolves first and then zero time later the Wish resolves and transports you out of there.  (If you do it the other way around then the Wish resolves first, so your PAO resolves at your new location and you die.)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Now, could the gods interfere with this?  You betcha.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> There are roughly 50 gods here.  Each of them can have a readied action and a Celerity-caused readied action.  They can also have a Contigency which gives them another another Celerity, meaning they effectively have three readied actions prepared.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Let's assume, provided they have a chance to act:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> * All of the gods have the power to stop a mortal from casting one way or another
>>>>>>>>> * All of the gods have the power to escape from a just-formed singularity
>>>>>>>>> * The gods are working together to make sure they all survive.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In this case the actions of the gods form one long chain with the first god (Al) readying three actions with the trigger "If a mortal starts casting, I smite him".  The second god (Bob) readies his three actions with the trigger "If a mortal starts casting and Al doesn't smite him, I smite him" and so on.  There are effectively 150 actions stacked up in front of you, and you need to go before all of them.  The only way to do that is to declare your action after all of them...but the only way to make all of them TAKE their actions is to make sure that each of them fails in turn, so you have to have more than 150 actions stacked up yourself.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Long story short, you'd need to have way more mortals than gods before the gods wouldn't be able to shut you down.

>>>>>>>>>> **u/JackStargazer** [+2]  *Primordial Apologist* (17 hours later)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Someone's gotta start [really breaking](http://web.archive.org/web/20100111073359/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b) things, naturally.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> This is true hidden lore. Guard it well.

>>>>>>>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (20 hours later)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I was aware of it actually. Never gonna happen. :>

>>>>>>>> **u/Putnam3145** [+1]  (2 days later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> > A black hole of a billion solar masses won't even eat the solar system
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> A black hole of a billion solar masses would be 39.5 AU in radius (if Universe Sandbox is reliable about black hole radiuses, which I sincerely doubt) and would most definitely eat the solar system regardless of size. The milky way is only a thousand times that size.

>>>>>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (2 days later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I stand corrected. My point still stands, though.

> **u/kuilin** [+2]  (3 hours later)
> 
> Is it ever explicitly stated that Suze is half Jake's age? Or does that just come from Jake guessing her age at the beginning before he knew about resurrection? I swear, if it is revealed later that she is some kinda centuries old goddess or something...

>> **u/eaglejarl** [+5]  (7 hours later)
>> 
>> Well, back in chapter 2 we got this:
>> 
>> > a girl in a maid's uniform [...] She was very pretty but I chose to ignore it; I was old enough to be her father.
>> 
>> But no, her age hasn't been explicitly stated.
>> 
>> EDIT:  Just realized that the above was ambiguous.  There's nothing tricky going on -- she's 19.

> **u/eaglejarl** [+2]  (9 hours later)
> 
> Huh, that's odd.  Pretty sure I submitted this, but /u/ShareDVI is labeled the submitter.  Wonder what happened?

>> **u/None** [+1]  (11 hours later)
>> 
>> I submitted it when I got my email-notification. Maybe your post got into doublepost filter or something

>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (11 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Ah, yes, you're right.  I do remember seeing a doublepost notification, but I assumed I'd just clicked the button twice.  Ah well.

> **u/RMcD94** [+1]  (5 hours later)
> 
> Hmm, if I was mindscraping people I would always do it before and after disjunction since people are highly likely to be going to be using magic on their thoughts.
> 
> Now, if no one else thought they were going to get mindscraped then why did Suze of all people predict it to use Programmed Amnesia? 
> 
> I'm surprised the Gods teleported to him instead of teleporting him to them, seems awful uh, ungodlike I suppose, though it's not clear I suspect if he had teleported it a note would be made.

>> **u/eaglejarl** [+2]  (7 hours later)
>> 
>> > Now, if no one else thought they were going to get mindscraped then why did Suze of all people predict it to use Programmed Amnesia?
>> 
>> They knew they would get Mindscraped.  They chose to not protect it because they had nothing to hide -- the whole POINT was that they were there to help Afi, so it was in his best interest to work with them.  
>> 
>> > I'm surprised the Gods teleported to him instead of teleporting him to them,
>> 
>> Every single time we've seen a god to date, they've teleported to him.

>>> **u/Gurkenglas** [+1]  (8 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Of course, gods can only manifest in the presence of Flobovia's emperor.

>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+7]  (8 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> *headdesk*
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, no.  Gods can manifest wherever they want, but if they want that place to be *on camera*, then they need to manifest in front of the main character who tells the story in first person.

>>>> **u/JackStargazer** [+0]  *Primordial Apologist* (18 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> There is a subtle implication there that perhaps not all salient divine abilities (the ones which particularly target 'mortals' for example) work on Jake.
>>>> 
>>>> This may be because of his status as an Outside Context Problem.
>>>> 
>>>> Some powers obviously still work, and anything which creates a true magical effect or a gross physical effect obviously does (see - painful death and time regression resurrection).

>>> **u/RMcD94** [+0]  (3 days later)
>>> 
>>> >They knew they would get Mindscraped. They chose to not protect it because they had nothing to hide -- the whole POINT was that they were there to help Afi, so it was in his best interest to work with them.
>>> 
>>> My bad
>>> 
>>> >Every single time we've seen a god to date, they've teleported to him.
>>> 
>>> Sure, singular, there's never been a reason for them not to be the one to teleport to him, though I am also of the position that it was ungodlike when he was being given into trouble.
>>> 
>>> A hall of God judgement is just the kind of place Gods would have, and summon mortals there to feel very Godly and dious, them teleporting to him all the time feels like he's in charge u get me

> **u/JanusTheDoorman** [+1]  (21 hours later)
> 
> I'm not sure I get how the whole God Portfolio Sense thing works. Herrun seems to be implied to be constantly aware of everyone's secrets - she's aware of secret knowledge only discovered or posited after her formation since it was pointed out that scheming against her is difficult since trying to keep your scheming secret makes it known to her.
> 
> Since Neklos's portfolio is death, and the protagonists take pains to avoid a plan that actually kills him, it seems to be implied that he is aware at least of anything that could lead to his own death, and in conjunction with the way Herrun's Portfolio-Sense works, I'd hazard a guess that he's able to sense every death before it happens.
> 
> Shouldn't Suze's use of the anti-osmium to kill everyone he had Soul Trapped tipped him off that something was about to happen and prevent the surprise round? Even if Neklos' sense doesn't quite extend to literally every potential death, it seems contrived that his sense would give him foreknowledge of his own death, but not the imminent death of a dozen souls he had under his personal control at the moment.

>> **u/mordorisbad** [+1]  (2 days later)
>> 
>> If he were planning on killing them(which seems likely), this might not have set off his portfolio sense in a meaningful way.

> **u/Belgarion262** [+1]  (a day later)
> 
> Awesome :D

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