scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/2o5hpp.md

## /r/rational Daydreams and Doodles thread: all the random [BST] you don't have time to expand on

* Author: u/None *
* URL: 
* Score: 14

* Created: 2014-12-03T13:31:44

### Post:

[deleted]

### Comments:

> **u/xamueljones** [+16]  *My arch-enemy is entropy* (3 hours later)
> 
> I tried writing a ghost story for NaNoWriMo, but I ran into trouble very quickly. While the plot was very simple with the protagonist dying and investigating the rules of the afterlife with a dark rational living antagonist, there was just too much world-building to do to set-up the rules of the after-life.
> 
> The protagonist dies, drifts around as a mindless ghost until he passes a scene where the people are extremely emotionally charged. He regains full consciousness and deduces that it means ghosts need emotional energy to function. However, there is the drawback that  his personality will match the emotional energy absorbed most often. For example, a ghost who constantly absorbs anger becomes a wraith, or a vengeful spirit. Different types of ghosts correlate to different emotions.
> 
> The protagonist's answer is to hang around large groups of people who are calm, since he doesn't need strong emotions, just to be around a lot of people to dilute the "emotional" overtones for the underlying fundamental energy. Which means he spends his time haunting college classes.
> 
> The antagonist is a person who can see ghosts, and knows about the emotional energy aspect. She has deduced the fact that if a ghost will absorb the emotions of many people, then when only one person is around multiple ghosts, the ghosts "attack" each other which breaks the ghosts down into energy which then can be absorbed by any living person for an increase in health. She believes ghosts aren't truly sentient and wants to find a way to use the health enhancement to help others. 
> 
> It's a story where the protagonist has to be careful to not have his personality overly influenced by outside forces and faces someone who's ideology matches his, but has conflicting goals.

>> **u/EliezerYudkowsky** [+14]  *Godric Gryffindor* (5 hours later)
>> 
>> +1 Good vs. Good

>> **u/None** [+2]  (17 hours later)
>> 
>> > The protagonist's answer is to hang around large groups of people who are calm, since he doesn't need strong emotions, just to be around a lot of people to dilute the "emotional" overtones for the underlying fundamental energy. Which means he spends his time haunting college classes.
>> 
>> This is going to get broken really quickly as he learns everything about everything.

>>> **u/Drexer** [+1]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Yes, because he really has the ability to fully put that knowledge into action, or to accumulate knowledge without any limitation.
>>> 
>>> Even considering he had more than a few centuries to accumulate knowledge, he would probably not mantain full interest or be an all-around expert at all of it.

> **u/alexanderwales** [+14]  *Time flies like an arrow* (a day later)
> 
> > The story of how Lex Luthor ended up in the Gotham City correctional system was a long one, and if questioned, there was a very low chance that he would have admitted to making any mistakes. The story of how the city decided to put all their prisoners on a ferry was a long one that would no doubt be the subject of numerous hearings and court cases, no matter what ended up happening. And the story of how the Joker had planted a bomb on not one but *two* ferries was one that was probably longer than the other two combined.
> 
> > "The Joker seems to think that he's being clever," said Lex to the prisoners and guards. He stood over the bomb, which was ticking merrily away. It had taken some talking to get to this point, but now they were looking at him as an authority, and that meant that there was plenty of time for a monologue while his brain worked at the problem. "He's trying to prove something, I suppose, about the depravity of man. If they blow us up, it proves that they're no better than we are. If we blow them up ... I suppose it's a vindication of the justice system, and I don't see how that helps him make his point, aside from getting a lot of people killed. And if neither of us blows the other up, then he just kills us himself and makes his point that way - that in the end, it doesn't matter whether you do the right thing or not, you die by the actions of a maniac anyway."
> 
> > Lex pointed out a part of the bomb. He had been very careful to keep himself to a visual inspection, and counted himself lucky that most of the mechanisms were exposed. "There. It has a number of fail-deadly mechanisms in it. The point would be subverted if we simply disabled the bombs." He frowned slightly as he stepped around the bomb. "At any rate, it seems that the Joker read something about the prisoner's dilemma, or perhaps simply arrived at this game on his own. There are a number of differences, of course. For one, there's no incentive for cooperation. For another, there's no penalty for defection. The dominant strategy, from a game theoretical perspective, is simply to press the switch as soon as humanly possible." He shot a dark look at the tall black man who'd thrown the switch out the window. "Of course, game theory is about reducing human decisions down to their core, and stripping away the ability to come at the situation from another angle. You begin talking about trolleys and tracks, and most people will ask for more details before they accept that the situation boils down to simply pulling or not pulling a lever. Throwing themselves in front of the trolley, running to untie the people, and what have you. A sensible thing to think about, but not so great for science." He reached forward and yanked out one of the wires from the bomb. A collective gasp came up from everyone around him, and despite the fact that he was sweating, Lex put on his best grin. "Don't be too excited, that was only the part connected to the timer. The receiver for the radio signal is closer to the center, and I can't get at the wire without tripping the mercury switches, which would kill us all. The Joker is more of a planner than you might expect to look at him." He looked to the guards. "I'm not saying that I would have pressed the switch, you understand. It would be just like the Joker to rig the bombs up to explode when either switch was pressed, or something equally moronic. He would find it *funny*. But I've bought us some time while the other boat contemplates whether to kill us. No doubt they're holding a vote or deciding who has to be the one to do it. Stupid, but at least more sensible than simply throwing the switch out the window."
> 
> > "We can't do anything about what they decide," said one of the guards. "Hopefully they make the right choice and figure out how to disarm their own bomb."
> 
> > "Hope is for idiots," said Lex. He looked to the ceiling. "We need to tear out those wires. I think if we still have a few minutes I might be able to make a crude Faraday cage."

>> **u/DaystarEld** [+3]  *Pokémon Professor* (3 days later)
>> 
>> I've said it before, I'll say it again: as great as your other projects are, I would love to see your Lex take on whatever version of Batman you might use. (actually, not *whatever* version, it would obviously have to be a similarly hyper-intelligent one rather than, say, the Nolanverse's, in order to be interesting)

>> **u/ancientcampus** [+1]  *juggling kittens* (14 days later)
>> 
>> Nice delivery of the "punchline"

> **u/alexanderwales** [+9]  *Time flies like an arrow* (2 hours later)
> 
> I've got a bunch of half-finished crap sitting in my drafts folder. Now that NaNo is over I have some time to look at other things. But I don't just want to post half-finished crap willy-nilly in case some of it can actually be made to work as a story. So, a summary of things that are kicking around but that I'm not actually working on:
> 
> * I've got a short story about the Chinese Room, from the perspective of the Chinese room, that takes place mostly as a dialog between a man investigating the room and the room itself. But there's no conflict, and while it's a decent enough exploration of the idea, it doesn't go anywhere. In the story, the room sits at a walled border between the kingdoms of Leshwin and Amar. A representative of Amar comes to speak to the room, thinking that the slot for papers goes to an embassy office, but the room protests that it doesn't even speak Lesh, and only has an interest in Leshwin to the extent that it needs Leshian people inside it following the instructions (written in Lesh) in order to remain conscious. The representative of Amar is incredulous, and eventually goes to investigate ... and that's where I've stopped, because there didn't seem to be anywhere for it to go. I have no idea what a proper resolution would look like.
> 
> * I've got another short story that is mostly a conversation between an AI and someone acting as a gatekeeper. That one is more or less done, and can be found [here.](https://docs.google.com/document/d/18Xa3GTfnw4dWr1hkkc090Xl90UoSStBX5fVTtytrjME/edit?usp=sharing) It's just not very good. Someone else with more of a grasp on the issue is invited to edit it and *make* it good, but I was a bit hampered by the fact that none of the AI wins that I'd seen were terribly convincing to me. The dialog also needs work to have a better flow, but I didn't really see the point in working on that when the arguments seemed weak.
> 
> * For a while now I've wanted to write a time-looping version of the Flash where the loop only lasts for a handful of seconds due to an unexpected nuclear explosion. It would have to be set early in the Flash's career in order for there to be things for him to learn about how the Speed Force works. Of course, the Speed Force is just absurd, so there'd have to be a balance there. Mostly I liked the kernel of the idea but couldn't figure out a way to execute it.
> 
> > He slowed time down as soon as he was back to life again. Three weeks ago, that would have sounded like insanity to him, but after the accident had happened he had spent nearly all of his time testing the boundaries of what he could do. Time wasn’t actually slowed down, it was just that his brain was going so much faster that everything seemed like it was moving through molasses. He’d caught Iris in mid-blink. People’s faces weren’t meant to be stopped at random moments, and a decent amount of the time, especially if they were talking, they just looked silly. Iris was beautiful in that moment, with her eyes closed. She looked like she did when she was sleeping, utterly at peace with the world. Then her eyelids began moving upwards again, and she looked like she was about to sneeze.
> 
> * I have a Hermione/Draco fanfic that was supposed to be a meditation on what racists actually think. It was going to be the *American History X* of Hermione/Draco fanfic! But then it just ended up being veiled commentary on race, and after that it ended up being the standard angsty romance between star-crossed lovers, and I don't know. Here's an excerpt:
> 
> > “Does she admit that her kind are overwhelmingly predisposed to violence, crime, indolence, and stupidity?” asked Lucius. He continued on without waiting for an answer. “I would wager that she does not. She, like others of her kind, would insist that she has a right to enjoy the fruits of wizarding society even though she was not born of it, and I have little doubt that she has designs on the destruction of our race through the further pollution of the bloodlines.” Draco’s father took a sip of elderflower wine before continuing. “You must always remember that mudbloods are not truly wizards or witches at all, they are simply muggles who have managed to steal or chance upon some modicum of magical power through interbreeding. They have persistently poor scores in the N.E.W.T.s and O.W.L.s for that very reason, though Dumbledore makes every effort to keep that fact from the public eye. This … Granger.” The named dripped from his mouth. “She succeeds only because of the intermixing that has occurred. Her inferiority drives her, and she works four times as hard to be half as good as a wizard like you.”

>> **u/chaosmosis** [+1]  *and with strange aeons, even death may die* (23 hours later)
>> 
>> Make the final story an actual tragedy? Seems impossible to avoid the "true love conquers all" trope otherwise.

>>> **u/alexanderwales** [+3]  *Time flies like an arrow* (2 days later)
>>> 
>>> The scene I have in my head for the end is Draco and Hermione nervously getting ready for her to be introduced to his parents after the conclusion of the Second Wizarding War. Sort of a "there are a lot of things to work out, but we're in it together" type of thing. It's a story about a broken person becoming less broken. Mostly I'm tired of tragedies. I don't know, odds are that it will never get past the point of being a bunch of scenes.

> **u/None** [+9]  (23 minutes later)
> 
> >The Anti-Spirals and their terror of the Spiral Nemesis had forced a retreat, but they had been overreliant on sheer brute force.  Lordgenome knew better: pressure *at a point* was power, force *applied intelligently* was power, like a drill.  The Anti-Spiral had allowed him to keep a mere million humans alive upon the planet, but that was all he needed to maintain a viable gene pool and plenty of raw material for engineering.
> >
> >People ask, "Why do you fight?  Why do you kill?  Why do you destroy?"  And if he but succeeded, those people would know the answers, and live.  *That* would be humanity's bliss.
> >
> >His call reverberated down through the atmosphere, across the entire planet that had no idea what they faced.
> >
> >"FOOLISH HUMANS!" he bellowed, "TREMBLE before this absolute power!"
> >
> >Little could be heard over the sound of the atmosphere making its room for the reentering Cathedral Terra.  His army of Beastmen provided not only a way to enforce his regime upon the surface, but a testing and proving ground for modifications to the Spiral races and the Gunmen alike.  Soon, he would begin his training regime for the human race that had been so foolish as to flee into underground shelters.  The Spiral King Lordgenome chuckled to himself in his throne, resting his chin on his spare left hand.
> >
> >"RISE from your knees to grasp the overwhelming hope and potential before you!  To follow the path of the SPIRAL KING!"
> >
> >"To the heights of life we shall rise once more, my foolish tribe," he muttered, and flicked off the microphone.
> 
> -- [Tengen Toppa Extropian Lagann: Gurren-Hen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXg9mvnUWsM)
> 
> (Well *that* was inevitable.)

>> **u/DaystarEld** [+1]  *Pokémon Professor* (2 hours later)
>> 
>> \o/!

> **u/None** [+6]  (3 hours later)
> 
> Zombie-apocalypse scenario where eating brains adds computational power to a zombie, making it smarter. And they can eat brains of each other.
> 
> Of course, they keep humans for brain farming, and eventually the whole planet is again repopulated with humans and there is only one super-mega-smart zombie left. The Last Question or MLP:FiO ensues.

>> **u/ancientcampus** [+1]  *juggling kittens* (14 days later)
>> 
>> This story exists! http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/071029

> **u/DaystarEld** [+7]  *Pokémon Professor* (2 hours later)
> 
> Rational Kingdom Hearts.
> 
> A multiverse where "Light" and "Darkness" are actual types of energy that correspond with thoughts and emotions, largely misconstrued (though with fair reason) to be "Good" and "Evil," especially when regular people get consumed by Darkness and start turning into heartless/mindless monsters.
> 
> Brings up the question of "qualia" in the Nobodies, most of whom seem to be agentless husks, but a rare few who claim that their hearts/qualia are gone, even while they still feel vestiges of emotion and act with some semblance of agency and consciousness.
> 
> Sora, Riku and Kairi are rationalists whose world is one day sucked into the Darkness when Riku, believing that "Dark" deeds can be done with positive outcomes, agrees to go with a mysterious stranger that thinks they will corrupt him (and probably do, for awhile). 
> 
> Organization 13 is trying to study the "soul" and perfect cloning/immortality by way of mind transfer to new hosts: Ansem is the well-intentioned extremist who wants to spread this magic-tech to all, Xehanort is his "pupil" who just wants to perfect it for himself and clone his mind into 13 powerful bodies, so as to better summon the X-Blade of legend, said to be capable of opening the TRUE Kingdom Hearts, where all hearts/souls/minds are said to be born from and return to after death, perhaps with good intention of setting them "free."
> 
> One of the things I thought of going into before I decided on Pokemon. Would be really interested to see what others might make of it.

>> **u/RolandsVaria** [+6]  (7 hours later)
>> 
>> "A multiverse where "Light" and "Darkness" are actual types of energy that correspond with thoughts and emotions, largely misconstrued (though with fair reason) to be "Good" and "Evil," especially when regular people get consumed by Darkness and start turning into heartless/mindless monsters."
>> 
>> Isn't that already canon? They're both clearly energies that can be tapped into, although Darkness is generally easier to harness and more powerful at the cost of being corrosive to the user.
>> 
>> There is a certain discussion to be had about the organization's nobodies, certainly, although the answer seems rather obvious. Even as early as Chain of Memories, it seems clear that they are driven by emotion to some extent. It seems that it's primarily positive emotion that they lack, leaving them with emptiness and sorrow. They act out their past emotions, desperately trying to rekindle how they felt in the past.
>> 
>> Your idea about Organization 13's new goal is a good one, but even in canon, one thing that struck me about Organization 13 is how utterly EASY it would be to paint themselves in a sympathetic light to Sora if they gave even a bit of effort. "Hey Sora, we've lost our hearts, we're in constant pain. We need to complete Kingdom Hearts to be whole again. Why don't you come to our castle, and we'll summon up some Heartless for you to defeat (in a series of small, manageable groups) until that happens. They're a mindless menace anyway, don't you want to get rid of as many of them as you can?"
>> 
>> Lastly, something would seriously have to be done to ramp the difficulty curve. Because when you think about it, Kingdom Heart's multiverse seems absurdly easy to optimize.
>> 
>> First you have all the utterly abuseable magic, technology and resources from the disney worlds (Lilo and Stitch's alien tech, Alladin's Genies, etc). Really, the worlds could definitely use some exchange between them, it'd allow for much improvement of quality of life.
>> 
>> Second, you have Ansem the Wise's technology, which is incredible beyond the likes of which the world has ever seen. He seems perfectly capable of bringing about utopia all on his own (one might note that he was responsible for making Radiant Garden a paradise) He can:
>> 1: Upload and create backup copies of minds (and hearts)
>> 2: Simulate at least a whole town, including its people.
>> 3: Is seemingly capable of bringing parts of his simulation into reality, effectively allowing him to create anything that anyone could ever need.
>> 
>> Third, all you need to do is gather 7 strong hearts of light and 13 of darkness, have them clash, then just like that you can basically become God.

> **u/None** [+5]  (5 hours later)
> 
> I'll bring up Rationalist!Animorphs again. I wrote down a couple of notes, but I lost them in the Great Laptop Disaster of 2014. I'll write down my notes for them again at a later time.

>> **u/ketura** [+1]  *Organizer* (15 hours later)
>> 
>> Let me know if you ever start something like this up.  I'd love to be a soundboard--and I've given that particular rational universe some thought.

>> **u/None** [+1]  (17 hours later)
>> 
>> > I wrote down a couple of notes, but I lost them in the Great Laptop Disaster of 2014.
>> 
>> Google Docs is a thing?

>>> **u/None** [+1]  (17 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Yeah, I started using that a lot more after my hard drive started making weird noises.

> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+5]  *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (10 hours later)
> 
> * *So many* crossovers with *Young Wizards*.  The setting integrates with basically anything, and lends itself beautifully to stories with a genuine clash of values (anything from black/white to grey/grey) rather than stupid non-communication.  
> 
> * Harry Potter AU in which the POV generation (and ok, others too) is actually competent.  I mean, we see all these amazing things done by parents, Riddle, Dumbledore in school and then the trio just muddles through when they *know* someone is trying to kill them?  Note:  *Forging the Sword* is pretty similar, though I'd skip to later and just open with competence porn.  
> 
> * High-stakes, competent magical girl megacrossover.  Similar to *Haigeki* or *Battle Fantasia Project*, but focussing on collaborating with the power of <friendship/love/magic/warm fuzzies/pink dakka/whatever> to protect Earth from all the many invaders instead of constant darkness.
> 
> * Post- *Narnia* story in which four teenagers have all the memories, skills, and charisma of legendary royalty... and a country that needs help.  Partly-done by the [*National Service*](https://archiveofourown.org/series/8533) series.

>> **u/None** [+1]  (17 hours later)
>> 
>> > High-stakes, competent magical girl megacrossover. Similar to Haigeki or Battle Fantasia Project, but focussing on collaborating with the power of <friendship/love/magic/warm fuzzies/pink dakka/whatever> to protect Earth from all the many invaders instead of constant darkness.
>> 
>> Madoka pls

>>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+5]  *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (18 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Snippets:  
>>> 
>>> >"Fairest and Fallen, greetings, defiance, and... may I ask why you're shaped like a cat-rabbit-mascot-thing*?"
>>> 
>>> >"...Ok, no response.  *<Callahan's Unfavourable Instigation>*, and don't come back."
>>> 
>>> >...
>>> 
>>> >Dream Team:  
>>> 
>>> >* Kaname "Godoka" Madoka - those who serve the Powers, themselves become the Powers.  Sometimes literally.  
>>> 
>>> >* Takamichi "Ace of Aces" Nanoha - for anyone wanting friendship by the terajoule (or exajoule, or...).
>>> 
>>> >* Nita Callahan - known *Sailor Moon* cosplayer.  No nickname, because names have power.
>>> 
>>> >* Taylor "You could take her" Hebert - she of many ~~minions~~names, with space-whale-magic powers.  (You couldn't take her.)
>>> 
>>> (Oh, did I mention this is set in *Worm*?  Fortunately Humanity has plenty of bullshit-space-magic of it's own to fight Zion, so it still won't be a darkfic.)
>>> 
>>> >Dragon is one of Spot's siblings, so the whole "Ascalon and St George" thing is a non-starter.  Tohu/Bohu is behind Dark Manhattan, and sealed away (with Lung for good measure).  Leviathan is taken out by the Song of Twelve.  Behemoth by the Four Treasures of Ireland.  Ziz heard a cryptic prophecy ('the moon is no dream'), and left to investigate instead of trolling Earth.  Sailor Moon 'purifies' Ellisburg, and probably the Birdcage too.  Contessa finds that every path seems to lead to an unusually recalcitrant Transcendant Pig, and begins to wonder if the universe has a sense of humour (it does).  Coil kills Madoka and discards, and Akemi Homura shows him his mistake.

>>>> **u/None** [+2]  (18 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Well, I need a ROFL this morning and you supplied.

>>>>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+5]  *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (18 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Harry Potter-Evans-Verres triggers with Tattletale's power when Hermione dies, and quickly deduces the existence of Timeheart.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Something similar but opposite to an existential crisis ensues.

>>>>>> **u/None** [+2]  (18 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Wait... who's Tattletale?

>>>>>>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+5]  *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (21 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Worm character - her power is intuition/deduction; she can reach correct conclusions from evidence insufficient for a superintelligence.

>>>>>>> **u/Bobertus** [+1]  (20 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Tattletale is a worm character.

>>> **u/None** [+1]  (2 days later)
>>> 
>>> I recently read a W.I.T.C.H/WINX-like story (in Russian), where Idiot Ball-holding magical girls were manipulated into other world evil-fighting campaign by KGB.

> **u/chthonicSceptre** [+3]  *Highly Unlikely* (9 hours later)
> 
> Okay, so I wanted to try and write a rational!*Naruto*. Not with particularly innovative protagonists, but ones who are both heroes in the classic sense and who behave like real people. The problem is the antagonists. There's Orochimaru (who wants to learn the secrets of the universe and rule as a god), Pain (who wants to end all suffering in the world via nuclear deterrent, a decent goal for any antagonist). Every other antagonist falls somewhere in between those two extremes, and no amount of retconning and worldbuilding can make either of them into entertaining villains.
> 
> Pain's powers include creating and controlling gravity fields, building absurdly powerful automatic weaponry/biological enhancements, energy absorption, instant death touch along with the ability to read minds like [Aro](http://twilightsaga.wikia.com/wiki/Aro), summoning armies of giant mutant animals/instant troop movement, a field of omniscience via the rain, redundant zombie bodies proof against mental tampering, and unlimited resurrection. If there is a way to make that list more palatable, I can't find it; every one of those powers is gamebreaking. Even in cannon, Pain has a critical shortage of common sense not once (he still had his friend's corpse by the time he learned Raise Dead) but *twice* (killing Hinata for no sane reason, rather than using her as incentive for Naruto's cooperation), and even taking the most convoluted route to success imaginable, he nearly wins anyways.
> 
> Orochimaru is a little more workable, provided he doesn't have an immortal zombie army. I will confess that without access to Hashirama "Cheated on his character sheet" Senju, Tobirama "Munchkin" Senju, and Minato "Thousand Master" Namikaze, he's really not a very interesting character. Despite being a genius, he makes so many tactical blunders that it's almost painful. Since's he more of a sociopath than Josef Mengele, I can't think of any goals he might have that would be... interesting to write about, that don't end with unmitigated slaughter.
> 
> I won't even touch anyone who comes after Pain.
> 
> The main problem is that *Naruto* lends itself rather well to superpowered fighting, adolescent drama, and a few other themes, but not so much realistic international conflict between people who can teleport, control minds, shoot lightning and breathe fire. I considered shifting the focus of ninja training from battle to assassination, but that obliterates the tone of the original series. It's... kind of hit a dead end. Any ideas?

>> **u/alexanderwales** [+5]  *Time flies like an arrow* (11 hours later)
>> 
>> I know very little about Naruto, but it's totally fine to destroy the tone of the original series, so long as you let people know going in. You can rewrite *The Chronicles of Narnia* as a teen drama, and while a lot of people won't like it because it destroys what they enjoyed about the original, there will be an entirely different set of people who always wanted to see disaffected youths walking through a land of whimsy. People like genre shifts if they're done well, because it can breathe new life into something that's already well known.

>>> **u/thecommexokid** [+1]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> >there will be an entirely different set of people who always wanted to see disaffected youths walking through a land of whimsy
>>> 
>>> Sooo... *The Magicians*?

>>>> **u/alexanderwales** [+2]  *Time flies like an arrow* (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> Yup! :)

>> **u/RolandsVaria** [+2]  (12 hours later)
>> 
>> Yes, there is much under utilization of abilities going on in Naruto. But that goes for both sides of the conflict. If you make both sides more intelligent I don't think it's really a foregone conclusion that one would win out over the other. Still, it would require a ton of thought, it's hard to even know where to start.
>> 
>> Orochimaru's focus on obtaining infinite knowledge seems like a pretty interesting pursuit if you ask me. I don't see how not having overpowered zombie slaves makes him an uninteresting character...but you're right in that Edo Tensei has to go. Way too abuseable.

>>> **u/chthonicSceptre** [+2]  *Highly Unlikely* (14 hours later)
>>> 
>>> It is, but I was thinking of a dilemma along the lines of—
>>> 
>>> •If he doesn't need to interact with Konoha in any way, there's no conflict.
>>> 
>>> •If he can't obliterate or permanently cripple Konoha with acceptably low risk to himself, he won't, so there's no conflict.
>>> 
>>> •If he can, or if he just abducts Sasuke with no fanfare whatsoever, there's no conflict.
>>> 
>>> I don't think either of them make serviceable obstacles for the protagonist, hence why I scrapped everything and started something else.

>>>> **u/None** [+2]  (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> Rational actors can still have motivations which are inherently irrational. In fact they should, they're still human.  
>>>> 
>>>> You can have an Orochimaru who utilizes rational-fu in order to create actual workable plans. While still having him driven to attack Konoha because in his eyes, it wronged him. 
>>>> 
>>>> Regardless, you can make Konoha the aggressors too. It is in their best interests to take down Orochimaru. One does not leave such a large potential enemy on the game board.

>> **u/None** [+1]  (a day later)
>> 
>> so you have super powerful villains with cool motivations. what's the problem?

>>> **u/VorpalAuroch** [+1]  *Life before Death* (3 days later)
>>> 
>>> One of them is too powerful to be vulnerable, and the other has motivations that don't really intersect with the cast unless he's stupid about it.

>> **u/ancientcampus** [+1]  *juggling kittens* (14 days later)
>> 
>> I've had the same problem! I'm working on such a thing myself, and other than a terrifyingly intelligent "AI-in-a-box" Kyubi (and yes I know Lighting Up The Dark touches on this already), I'm having a hard time finding an external threat.
>> 
>> Orochimaru and Danzo both have some potential if you tweaked them... the only problem is I hate both of them and don't want to make the attempt. :)
>> 
>> The only other thing to add - if you search ff.net for "smart naruto" you find a gajillion pieces of crap. Intelligent use of abilities alone won't be enough to get your fic to stand above the rest.

> **u/None** [+3]  (18 hours later)
> 
> Another [anime-related](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULhuewfzw04) doodle, this time definitely leaning to the absurdist comedy:
> 
> >Everyone took heart as the first rays peeked over the mountains.  Stroheim breathed deep for the first time in what seemed like years.
> >
> >"We got him!" Smokey exclaimed, "The sun's coming up!"
> >
> >Cars' army of zombies screamed as the UV rays in the dawning daylight liquified their flesh and then burned them into dust.
> >
> >"The vampires' weakness..." noted Speedwagon, *almost* calmly.  He clenched a fist as he realized.  "Cars' weakness is the light of the sun!  We're saved..."
> >
> >Everyone let out their breath.  They were saved.  Cars was dead.  No vampires, no zombies, no Ultimate Life Form, and the Red Stone of Aja preserved.
> >
> >Then Jojo noticed.
> >
> >Cars stood among the vibrant rainbows cast by the field of crystals in the light, his chin tucked down, his arms spread wide, his hair waving and fluttering in the early-morning Mediterranean breeze.
> >
> >"No!" Smokey gasped.  "Cars is -- !"
> >
> >"He's turning his back on the sun," exclaimed Speedwagon, "and bathing in its light!"
> >
> >The Ultimate Life Form looked at them for the first time, and laughed the slow, deep laugh of the victorious.
> >
> >"Dear God!  This is bad!  Terrible!" Speedwagon stuttered.
> >
> >Cars only laughed more.
> >
> >"The Ultimate Life Form embodies the powers of each and every living being.  All lives gather as one.  And..." Cars breathed ecstatically, "How beautiful its shine!  Truly the most wonderful thing I have ever beheld... I have finally, finally tamed the sun!"  He opened his eyes and laughed again.
> >
> >TH-TH-THUMP.
> >
> >Speedwagon panicked.  "He... he's invincible!  He has no weaknesses!  I fear not even the Ripple will work!  He's immortal!  Unkillable!  Unmatched!"
> >
> >Now Cars was licking his lips with a slow WRRRRYYYYYYY.
> >
> >TH-TH-THUMP.
> >
> >"This is the birth of the perfect life-form, the Ultimate Being, Cars!"
> >
> >Stroheim was whispering to himself.  "It's my --"
> >
> >TH-TH-THUMP.
> >
> >"Wait," puzzled Speedwagon, "What's that sound!  Where is that sound coming from!  It's as if someone else is arriving, approaching from behind Cars!"
> >
> >"TAME, AM I!?" cried a feminine voice from the distance, approaching rapidly with each TH-TH-THUMP.
> >
> >The creature charging at Cars was difficult to look at, as if some malign mish-masher of life forms had crossed a muscular white thoroughbred horse with a child's idea of a royal queen.  It was an ivory winged unicorn, with a mane and tail of what looked to be pure Ripple energy, clad in golden armor, horseshoes, and jewelry.  And, if its strange mostly-human facial expression could be read, *it was angry*.
> >
> >"MY HEART RESONATES WITH PLASMA!  HEAT ENOUGH TO FUSE HYDROGEN INTO HELIUM!  MY BLOOD'S BEAT IS THE BURNING DAWN!  SUNLIGHT YELLOOOW OOOOOVERRRRDDUUUUUURIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
> >
> >The Ultimate Life Form could not actually survive being consumed by a 5500 degree-Celsius spear of flame.
> 
> This was basically formed out of the free-associations my mind did when it saw Cars, remembered the name of the First Jojo's special attack... and *completed the pattern*.
> 
> For a further riff on Jojo (further into the same storyline as before):
> 
> >It was all down to luck now, thought Jojo.  He'd known enough to raise the Red Stone of Aja into the path of Cars' Ripple burst, and that had netted him a volcanic eruption -- help from the Earth itself.  He had thrown Cars off the rock, and just had to hope space would take the abomination that was the Ultimate Life Form.  *Something* had to come flying up and impact him, push him to escape velocity, *something*.
> >
> >Jojo saw his severed hand come flying up -
> >
> >And Cars dodged it effortlessly.
> >
> >"Was that really supposed to be your plan, Jojo?"
> >
> >Joseph's mouth gaped ajar.  "Yes, yes it was!"
> >
> >"Well too bad!" announced Cars, "Being the Ultimate Life Form means I'm *superintelligent*!  I did the kinematic calculations for this entire little *scene* of yours five minutes ago!"

>> **u/nerdguy1138** [+1]  *GNU Terry Pratchett* (a month later)
>> 
>> Am I missing something? Who the hell is "Cars"?

>>> **u/None** [+1]  (a month later)
>>> 
>>> You're missing *Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Battle Tendency*.

> **u/Shadawn** [+3]  (a day later)
> 
> I'm recently thinking about Worm-fanfiction where Panacea read HPMOR (or something similarly-inspiring) and decided to get creative, get back at Tattletale and save world in a process. Because her power (total control of living matter) is, IMO, horribly underthought - she can copy people (including parahumans with powers intact), brainwash with touch, solve world hunger via worldwide bacterial culture, cure every disease including death and possibly even create living starships. And instead she just heals some people, gets attacked by antagonists, breaks down emotionally, makes mistakes and gets into Superjail.

>> **u/TimTravel** [+1]  (a day later)
>> 
>> It would be hard to give her worthy opponents even if you let Bonesaw cut loose too.

>>> **u/Shadawn** [+1]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Well, she could get in trouble with Protectorate, because she's approaching S-class threat really fast.

>>>> **u/nerdguy1138** [+1]  *GNU Terry Pratchett* (a month later)
>>>> 
>>>> The thing about S-class *anything* is that its not a defcon 1, Code Red, CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN, type of thing... it's a Cabin in the woods, Code Black. Red you can realistically fight, black, well game over, hit the self destruct if you want to. Ill be over here smashed out of my gourd.

> **u/cae_jones** [+2]  (19 hours later)
> 
> Power Rangers. Options include the rationality-focused approach (pick smart rangers, give them enhancements), or the "make the universe coherent and the characters non-stupid" approach, which is more fun but runs the risk of turning into a "dissect how the magic works even though it probably isn't that important" ramblefest.
> 
> First and foremost: the US Military is not going to ignore heavily armed aliens conducting combat operations on US soil, let alone near a heavily populated area. Rita does not repeat her Bicycle Ride of Doom from the first episode, because people with ICBMs tell her not to, and amost of her monsters move their battles into the desert/mountains on the grounds that they're looking for Zordon's Command Center.
> 
> Likewise, Zordon does not ignore the benefits of a high-population, heavily militarized species that is likely to side with him over his enemies. (Canon hints that he did not ignore the US military as a resource: see "Chase into Space"). However, his trumpcard is the power coins, and it turns out that the morphing technology is designed for meat brains (no morphing Alpha, who is not a superintelligence in this fic), and can have nasty side-effects if the rangers are too physically mature (hence, teenagers instead of the Navy Seals). The entire reason the Rangers have secret identities is so Zordon does not need to deal with the fallout of recruiting child soldiers from a population that is being very kind by not bombing him into oblivion. Rita could defect, here, and give this information to the public, but without Zordon as her excuse for invasion, she'd have to actually try something a little more subtle (like spreading her religion or something\*).
> 
> The Machine Empire has long since conquered the majority of their light cone, and part of Lord Zedd's motivations is to *not* get converted into paperclips (or Cogs, whichever the ME needs most at the time).
> 
> Canon portrays Zedd as skeptical of Rita's religious beliefs (She invokes spirits such as Lokar, the Wizard of Deception, and the Ghost of Darkness; Zedd refers to them as her creations, and there are subtle differences in their approaches to conquest/destruction that hint at different value systems). I bring this up because there is clearly something interesting at work with monster creation (Zedd explicitly requires an avatar for one of his creations at one point, and Scorpina once created a rock golem with a snap of her fingers), but also because The United Alliance of Evil revels in nominal "Evil" (The Machine Empire is explicitly part of the UAE, but the UAE contains numerous other aliens, monsters, and giant lava demigods). So, I have no idea how I'm going to handle that, but I'm guessing there is a (somewhat justified) religious aspect to it, and "Evil" is a mistranslation.
> 
> \* But if anyone wants to write the version where SMART! Rita defects, gets Zordon in trouble for making child soldiers out of US civilians, and becomes a cult leader, much to the chagrin of Zedd when he comes back to check on her, go for it. It sounds like it could be hilarious, awesome, or both.

> **u/MadScientist14159** [+2]  *WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe.* (23 hours later)
> 
> Oh, so many...
> 
> Rational Yugioh GX, centred on Syrus, trying to work out how this whole "magic card game" thing works.
> 
> Rational Naruto, centred on Orochimaru having successfully conquered Konoha during the chunin exams, trying to munchkin the village into a military force which can beat Madara (in absence of plot armour, Hagoromo ex machina powerups, or any other shonen bullshittery).
> 
> Harry Potter/HP Lovecraft rational crossover.
> 
> Rational DBZ, centred on Gohan trying to work out how to create a stupidly large number of dragonball sets to wish everyone immortal (and Kami being supremely unhelpful and not telling him how it's done).
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Niccolo-sensei: instead of Kakkashi, team 7 is taught by jonin sensei Niccolo Machiavelli.

>> **u/TimTravel** [+1]  (a day later)
>> 
>> > Rational Yugioh GX
>> 
>> Good luck. You'll need it.

>> **u/None** [+1]  (2 days later)
>> 
>> > Harry Potter/HP Lovecraft rational crossover.
>> 
>> Well *that's* going to be hilarious.

> **u/TimTravel** [+2]  (a day later)
> 
> Premise is a spoiler: [Avatar: TLA](#s "Aang dies for real and stays dead. They have to defeat the Fire Lord without him.")

> **u/noggin-scratcher** [+1]  *I am a happy tree* (15 minutes later)
> 
> >random [BST] you don't have time to expand on
> 
> Took me a moment to remember that BST stands for Brainstorm, my first thought was a different thing.

> **u/None** [+1]  (4 days later)
> 
> I think this thread is popular enough to warrant a sticky, no? I'd be interested to see more input here.

>> **u/alexanderwales** [+1]  *Time flies like an arrow* (4 days later)
>> 
>> I'd sticky it. It would be nice to have a place for things that aren't deserving of their own threads.

> **u/ZankerH** [-1]  *Remove Kebab* (7 hours later)
> 
> ratfic/competency porn idea: A modern-day time traveller is sent to 16th century Europe with the terminal value of helping its institutions preserve its cultural continuity against the revolutions of the coming centuries. [Victoria](https://www.traditionalright.com/victoria/) with less Turner Diaries and more institution-building institutions.

>> **u/VorpalAuroch** [+2]  *Life before Death* (3 days later)
>> 
>> Send an NRx into the past with a copy of Wikipedia? I wouldn't sympathize much, but I'd totally read it.

>>> **u/ZankerH** [+1]  *Remove Kebab* (3 days later)
>>> 
>>> I'm thinking Leviathan, the collected works of Metternich and Evola, and a map of Idaho. The goal isn't to accelerate progress (not even real, technological/scientific progress), but to preserve cultural continuity.

>>>> **u/None** [+1]  (4 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> You can't entirely do that.  Culture is very much a matter of beliefs, and once beliefs get falsified, culture *must* change, either in the direction of the correct beliefs, or in the direction of *deliberate irrationality*.  Consider the matter of Slytherins, blood-purity, and Draco's finding out it *just doesn't work that way.*

>>>>> **u/ZankerH** [+1]  *Remove Kebab* (4 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Not entirely, but on the other hand, it is perfectly possible to avoid a complete historical fluke like the systematic destruction of western cultural continuity by various murderous revolutionaries since the late 18th century.

>>>>>> **u/None** [+1]  (4 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you are referring to the French and Russian revolutions, then you are *really* going to have to provide your exact definition of "cultural continuity" to make any sense at all, *and* you're going to have to supply *strong* evidence that only a few small changes to the past are necessary to keep the royals in power up until the present day.

>>>>>>> **u/ZankerH** [+1]  *Remove Kebab* (4 days later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Russian revolution is only marginally relevant - I was talking more specifically about the American and French revolutions, as well as the dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire.

>>>>>>>> **u/None** [+1]  (4 days later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yeah, you *might* be able to prevent the American Revolution, since it was basically a mercantile and slave-mongering rentier-class revolting against an aristocratic rentier-class across the ocean.  Good fucking luck with the French Revolution and the separation of the Austro-Hungarian Empire into many countries.

>>>>>>>>> **u/ZankerH** [+1]  *Remove Kebab* (4 days later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Austria-Hungary naturally dissolved into its ethnically constituent parts. The Holy Roman Empire, however, was mostly unified into a single, centralised country despite having little common heritage, two opposed religions and completely divergent interests. In the Holy Roman Empire, all imperial subjects were guaranteed religious freedom by the edict of the peace of 1555 - "Cuius regio, euis religio". Radicals tried (and suceeded in) removing this basic freedom by having people of all faiths pretend they can coexist, by ensuring that everyone has the superficial freedom of believing what they want, while nobody except the secular government has the right to act on those beliefs.

>>>>>>>>>> **u/None** [+1]  (4 days later)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> What the *flying* fuck are you talking about?  One does not remove religious freedom by *instituting religious freedom*.  Are you claiming secular government *destroys religious freedom?*
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Besides which, that totally tosses aside the question of which, if any, religions are *actually true*.

>>>>>>>>>>> **u/ZankerH** [+0]  *Remove Kebab* (4 days later)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd argue that progressive politics is inherently confused about the meaning of the term, "religious freedom". You're not freeing anyone by forcing them to coexist with people they fundamentally disagree with and removing their rights to act on their beliefs. People are far more free if everyone can go live in homogenous societies where the ruler agrees with them, but this would require Exit-based political participation, another concept progressives seem to be fundamentally opposed to.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> >Besides which, that totally tosses aside the question of which, if any, religions are actually true.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Agreed. This is about cultural continuity, not epistemology. I'm cultural Catholic, but epistemically irreligious. It doesn't change anything.

---