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103 lines
8.8 KiB
Markdown
103 lines
8.8 KiB
Markdown
## Forget Skynet: How Person Of Interest Depicts A Realistic A.I. Uprising
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* Author: u/psychothumbs *
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* URL: http://io9.com/forget-skynet-how-person-of-interest-depicts-a-realist-1679304088
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* Score: 9
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* Created: 2015-01-13T23:09:21
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### Post:
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[Link to content](http://io9.com/forget-skynet-how-person-of-interest-depicts-a-realist-1679304088)
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### Comments:
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> **u/psychothumbs** [+3] (40 seconds later)
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>
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> I haven't seen much of Person of Interest. Has anybody here been watching?
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>> **u/Integrated_Delusions** [+9] *The Flying Kiwi* (4 hours later)
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>>
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>> I've seen up until the first few episodes of the latest season. For a weekly formula show, it was really, *really* good for the first three seasons. People didn't hold the idiot ball as a general rule, most of the tech made sense (there is occasional lapses where things just...don't work that way) but for the most part, probably one of the closest shows to "rational" on air ATM (note: not rationalist. Rational)
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>>
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>> Then we come to the latest season.
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>>
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>> For those who don't spend their time on certain subreddits where AI intelligence is discussed with regularity, it probably seems like a pretty good approximation. But it still has a procedure to follow, and procedures...don't hold up to true AI well. There come multiple points where it's just like "if you can think that, so can they - and they thought of this *literally as soon as this information was available to them.*"
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>>
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>> As a TV show? 9/10, I should really catch up on this season. One of my favorites. As a realistic depiction of a battle between AIs? 2/10. [Samaritan](#s " should have won a week out of the gate. It has far less limitations than the Machine, and has a much broader support network. These aren't two gods playing with the same deck of cards - one of them has jokers.")
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>>
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>> Edited for formatting
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>>> **u/iemfi** [+2] (5 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> But they don't go into much detail with the AIs so you can more or less just come up with your own story of why stuff is happening the way it is.
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>>>
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>>> [](#s "We know that the machine has been working on self preservation in the background. So it doesn't seem that implausible that it's able to do enough despite its restrictions to maintain the stalemate we see, it did have a huge head start after all.")
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>>>> **u/Integrated_Delusions** [+1] *The Flying Kiwi* (a day later)
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>>>>
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>>>> [Actually](#s " it's Samaritan that I have the issue with. Like the unhackable phone network, for instance. Samaritan had the same info the Machine did, but didn't even check to see if anyone had set up communications it couldn't tap? I mean, I can't know what it thought the probabilities of anyone actually using that network would be, but you would think the expected result/invested effort ratio would be more than high enough to justify a tap.")
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>>>>
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>>>> Edited for formatting. Again.
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>>>>> **u/iemfi** [+1] (a day later)
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>>>>>
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>>>>> [](#s "Again you can just hand wave it away by saying that the machine with its head start already has an iron grip on a lot of things, Samaritan could well be very aware of the network but just be unable to do anything about it for now.")
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>>>>>> **u/Integrated_Delusions** [+1] *The Flying Kiwi* (2 days later)
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> [](#s "It can create a system to distribute itself to every child in the state, but fails to undermine a network being run on outdated tech? I guess it depends on how much probability Samaritan puts on the gang all still being in New York. I'm not sure how much damage those turned servers are doing. But I find it a hard justification to make that "Oh, it's all those server's doing it" or "Samaritan isn't as entrenched as the Machine is yet" without something more concrete from the show to back it up.")
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>>> **u/randallsquared** [+2] (6 hours later)
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>>>
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>>> [I think](#s " the main disadvantage Samaritan has is that it's massively less efficient than the Machine. We know that it required the absolute latest hardware, where the Machine seems to be running on commodity VMs at this point.")
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>>>> **u/Integrated_Delusions** [+1] *The Flying Kiwi* (a day later)
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>>>>
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>>>> [Huh.] (#s "That's something I hadn't thought of. That would imply the Machine is effectively smarter, since it doesn't need the same resources to reach the same results. Though that still doesn't resolve all my issues. Unless.... New theory: The servers that were infected to protect their identities also contained Machine clones, who have been sabotaging Samaritan from the inside. And Samaritan can't tell, because the sabotage has been going on right from the start - there's no deviating data points for it to create a pattern from. As Samaritan expands, the Machine takes up a proportional amount of the expansion space, so the results return as Samaritan expects from it's flawed curve - which gives just enough room for the Machine to keep twisting the knife in. It would explain a few things...")
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>>> **u/E-o_o-3** [+2] (a day later)
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>>>
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>>> >if you can think that, so can they - and they thought of this literally as soon as this information was available to them.
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>>>
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>>> I know many people in the lesswrong-o-sphere subscribe the FOOM hypothesis, but do we *have* to say that the AI immediately becomes perfectly rational? I think it's okay to just say that it's pretty smart and getting smarter...
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>>>
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>>> I don't think it's reasonable to believe in FOOM to the extent that fiction in which mostly-better-than-human AI occurs but is not automatically ridiculously, instantaneously, overpoweringly over good at everything in the realms of intelligence and creativity becomes unrealistic.
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>>>> **u/psychothumbs** [+1] (a day later)
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>>>>
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>>>> Good point. FOOM is something that deserves a lot more scrutiny from society at large, but it's not so cut and dry that any deviation from it is obviously unrealistic.
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>>>>> **u/Integrated_Delusions** [+2] *The Flying Kiwi* (2 days later)
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>>>>>
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>>>>> I wouldn't even say FOOM is necessary what's at work here though. They can think much, much faster than we can, and they always operate at peak or near peak levels. How many thoughts do you have a second? How much information can you process? How many hours of sleep do you need a night? Now compare that to something that operates orders of magnitude faster, and that never has to stop. They aren't perfectly rational, or perfect thinkers - they're just much better at it than we are.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> If you want to argue that "as soon as this information becomes available to them" is closer to hyperbole than fact about how fast they can react, I'll concede if you also admit that nothing the human protagonists come up with should be something the AIs didn't already consider, and in much greater depth than the humans could've.
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>>>>>> **u/psychothumbs** [+3] (2 days later)
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> > if you also admit that nothing the human protagonists come up with should be something the AIs didn't already consider, and in much greater depth than the humans could've.
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Hmm, I'm not sure if I would admit that actually. Of course I haven't seen as much of the show as you have, so maybe there's stuff in there to support your position, but why would we expect the AI to have thought through everything the humans would consider? How fast does it think? How well can it model humans? How much information does it have?
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> With a FOOM these all become rhetorical, since we assume that the answer is always that the AI has every capability you can imagine. But in a non-FOOM scenario not only should we not assume an AI is infinitely above humans, we shouldn't even assume it is on par with us in every way. It could even be sub-human, just running at a so much faster speed that it seems (really is?) more intelligent, like if I was playing Chess against a grandmaster but I got a year between moves while he only got 30 seconds.
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>>> **u/Timewinders** [+1] (2 days later)
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>>>
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>>> Is the show episodic or does it have story arcs that cover the entire thing or at least a few seasons?
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>>>> **u/Integrated_Delusions** [+1] *The Flying Kiwi* (2 days later)
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>>>>
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>>>> Episodic, with longer arcs sprinkled throughout. Sort of like how USA does their seasons (I'm thinking White Collar, specifically). There are sundry recurring villainous organizations, characters, etc. And there will be an arc that lasts between episodes/throughout the season, especially as the seasons progress. But if you watched them out of order, you wouldn't be too lost about what was going on. Might miss some context, but the "previously on" would be enough to go on.
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>>>>> **u/Timewinders** [+1] (2 days later)
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>>>>>
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>>>>> Thanks.
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>> **u/CeruleanTresses** [+3] (17 hours later)
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>>
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>> I've seen a few episodes. The plots were interesting, but the main character really irritated me for some reason. He was just such a generic Gruff McTuff with an ambiguously tragic past.
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---
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