scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/2t90f7.md

## Anyone read Citadel?

* Author: u/None *
* URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2t90f7/anyone_read_citadel/
* Score: 2

* Created: 2015-01-22T03:24:52

### Post:

Is it worth getting into?

### Comments:

> **u/FlossingThread** [+4]  (3 hours later)
> 
> [Citadel](https://unillustrated.wordpress.com/). It's about a military school for capes. I dropped it after just a few chapters. Something about the writing and the characters seemed too grating for me.

> **u/unillustrated** [+2]  (a day later)
> 
> I am the author of the piece in question and freely admit to bias.  That said:
> 
> The story is a militaristic take on the school for supers genre.  Additionally, the training is pragmatic and brutal.  I think calling it violence porn would be overstating it, but the early portions of the story are probably the most violent and, if they bother you, I wouldn't recommend you continue.  Both the setting and elements of the plot are fairly dark.
> 
> This is the second time it's popped up in a rationalist thread but it is not intended as rationalist fiction.  I do make a deliberate effort to have characters act in a fashion that makes sense to them.  As a natural result, there are a few individuals who make a concerted effort to better themselves, constantly improving, but only a few.  One of those characters seems to be a fan favorite and that may be the reason Citadel appeals to some rationalist readers.
> 
> Citadel is a work in progress.  The current intro, the two sections that have been most heavily discussed in this thread, are by no means final.  The first two versions were each significantly worse and I freely acknowledge that there is a lot of room for improvement in the most recent one.
> 
> I prefer not to comment on the alleged Sociopathic Hero in depth.  I'll simply say that, in my opinion, he does not fit the trope or the medical diagnosis.  The trope is subjective but I am actually semi-qualified to say the latter.
> 
> Spacing.  It seems a little unreal to me that this is an issue that prompted so many comments.  I use the double-space because that's how I was taught to do it and because that's how many of the books I read in my formative years were written.  I am aware that it is at least mildly anachronistic and has been for quite some time.  Even the later typewriters did not truly need it.  I intend to continue for two reasons: (1) it's what I'm used to and I'd rather put the effort required to change it into improving content instead and (2) precisely because it's old fashioned, double-spacing is what most of the large publishing companies prefer.  I realize that those same companies will never touch Citadel, or anything else that's been put on the web, but I do intend to write and submit other works.  Much as I value my current and future web readers, I'd prefer to keep my writing habits in tune with the publishers' expectations.
> 
> Regardless of anything else, I love feedback.  Good, bad, so long as it's honest, there's almost nothing said about what I've written that can't help me improve.  Thank you for what is clearly honest criticism.

>> **u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer** [+1]  *Utopian Smut Peddler* (a day later)
>> 
>> Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
>> 
>> In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
>> 
>> Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
>> 
>> “The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
>> 
>> The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.
>> 
>> Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.
>> 
>> Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.
>> 
>> L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them.

> **u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer** [+2]  *Utopian Smut Peddler* (7 hours later)
> 
> Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
> 
> In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
> 
> Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
> 
> “The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
> 
> The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.
> 
> Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.
> 
> Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.
> 
> L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them.

>> **u/Farmerbob1** [+2]  *Level 1 author* (12 hours later)
>> 
>> It is different and strange, that's certain.  There is no real main character, but there are main character(s).  I agree strongly that this can be confusing, but I like that the characters all feel different.
>> 
>> Jason is indeed a bit scary.  His power is extraordinarily OP to the point that he doesn't dare use it on humans directly, he can only use it to heal himself.
>> 
>> Double-spacing after sentences?  Really?  That bothers you enough to comment on it?

>>> **u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer** [+1]  *Utopian Smut Peddler* (19 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
>>> 
>>> In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
>>> 
>>> Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
>>> 
>>> “The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
>>> 
>>> The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.
>>> 
>>> Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.
>>> 
>>> Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.
>>> 
>>> L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them.

>>>> **u/Farmerbob1** [+1]  *Level 1 author* (21 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not sure why you are missing the coherent storyline that I see clearly.  It's a school for people with super powers, where teaching occurs to train soldiers, not students.  It's an extremely grimdark world.  The author is showing it to us from the perspective of several characters.
>>>> 
>>>> Because the story is being told from the perspective of several characters, as if they were each main characters, it seems fragmented.  No, it IS fragmented.  But there's nothing inherently wrong with fragmentation.
>>>> 
>>>> Would I have written it that way?  No.  But I'm not the author.
>>>> Am I saying you should like it?  No.  Like what you want.
>>>> If you do not like the series, then you have a perfect right to say so, and perhaps give reasons.  You did those things.
>>>> 
>>>> It simply puzzled me to no small degree that you latched onto something as completely trivial as double spacing to complain about.  You had legitimate things to voice opinions on.  Things that I can actually respect.  Then you criticize for double spacing?  and emphasize it?  I just cannot wrap my mind around where you were coming from.
>>>> 
>>>> I am also a serial internet fiction writer.  I, as this author also does, have gone back and made edits in recently completed work at the direction of readers who point out problems.  My work was admittedly rather terrible when I started.  FAR worse than this author's work is.  That being said, my work has dramatically improved since I started, somewhere around 800k words ago.  I have improved enough that I literally cannot go back and simply make significant modifications in prior work completed only a few months ago.  If I do try to do so for anything more than a triviality, then I end up rewriting huge blocks of text.  Which I do not have the time to do when I am also working on new content.  Serial online fiction with regular, frequent updates simply does not work that way, with very few exceptions.
>>>> 
>>>> Let me be clearer.  Despite the fact that I identify far more strongly with the writer than I do with you, I respect all of your opinions except the opinion on double-spacing,   I don't agree with the others, and have explained why, with a little illustration.
>>>> 
>>>> I also double-space.  I will not be changing that habit.
>>>> 
>>>> As a side note, Jason has not yet used his power on a human.

>>>>> **u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer** [+1]  *Utopian Smut Peddler* (23 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
>>>>> 
>>>>> “The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
>>>>> 
>>>>> The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.
>>>>> 
>>>>> L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them.

>>>>>> **u/Farmerbob1** [+1]  *Level 1 author* (a day later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If a 50k book contract landed in my lap, I would have absolutely nothing to do with sentence spacing.  That's formatting, and formatting is the editor's job.  The editor would probably be annoyed with me if I even mentioned spacing between sentences because I shouldn't even be thinking about formatting.  I should be writing a good story.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I agree that this conversation is irrational.  I was taught to double space decades ago, and I will always double space.  If some potential future editor of mine doesn't like it, I guarantee you that they know how to use the find and replace all option on a word processor.

> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (an hour later)
> 
> What is it?

> **u/Farmerbob1** [+1]  *Level 1 author* (2 hours later)
> 
> Citadel by Unillustrated?  If so, then yes, I read it.  It's solidly written and interesting.  A very military approach to superpowers in a pretty grimdark superpower universe.

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