scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/2u1hm6.md

## Daily Actions

* Author: u/xamueljones  *My arch-enemy is entropy**
* URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2u1hm6/daily_actions/
* Score: 9

* Created: 2015-01-29T03:12:07

### Post:

Whenever people post to this subreddit, I generally end up reading rational fiction or have a brief, but engaging, discussion. I have almost never seen anyone give real-life examples of rational thinking. Just long discussions about the theory and little about practical application.

Is someone willing to state occasions where they used principles of rational thought to make a decision, or some daily habit to practice rational thinking?

Thank you to anyone who is willing to share personal details on their behavior.

### Comments:

> **u/rumblestiltsken** [+10]  (3 hours later)
> 
> Every argument with a loved one conceded for no reason other than the lack of expected benefit aka knowing when to lose.

>> **u/None** [+6]  (18 hours later)
>> 
>> Cannot. Upvote. Enough.  The cost to the relationship of having An Argument almost *always* outweighs the benefit of Being Right.

>>> **u/rumblestiltsken** [+5]  (20 hours later)
>>> 
>>> I also find that relationship arguments are never black and white, right and wrong, either. Even silly stuff like who took out the bins last. 
>>> 
>>> The number of times I have been convinced I did it, and then realised I was wrong ... the arguments are always the sort of trivial shit that our minds love confabulating about to make us feel better about ourselves. I don't trust myself about that shit anymore.
>>> 
>>> Just another reason to drop the argument.

>> **u/DangerouslyUnstable** [+3]  (5 hours later)
>> 
>> That's a lesson I have yet to learn with my SO. I have extreme difficulty bordering on complete inability to concede when I don't feel I have done anything wrong. It's a miracle she hasn't broken up with me yet.
>> 
>> However, during the course of those arguments which never should have happened because I should have apologized at the beginning since there was no concievable gain to be had from having the argument, I make all kinds of rational arguments. So I've got that going for me, which is nice.

>>> **u/rumblestiltsken** [+5]  (6 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Yeah, you only get better if you practice. Train those pathways, learn to lose etc.
>>> 
>>> Making rational arguments for irrational reasons (to prove you are right (ie no benefit) at significant personal cost) is still irrational.

> **u/Charlie___** [+7]  (5 hours later)
> 
> Practice noticing.  Relevant blog posts: [1](http://agentyduck.blogspot.com/2014/09/what-its-like-to-notice-things.html) [2](http://agentyduck.blogspot.com/2014/12/how-to-train-noticing.html), but also more broadly see the cognitive behavioral therapy literature on how noticing things is a key step in changing things.
> 
> For me, an excellent thing to practice noticing was when I open a browser tab as a method of procrastination. I kept a piece of paper and a pen next to me, and put a check mark every time I noticed that I'd ctrl+t'd out of habit. Other people have had great success with tracking calories as a method of noticing what they eat.
> 
> The idea is that once you notice something, you need to exert less effort to change it, because you actually know how the effort needs to be used.

>> **u/DangerouslyUnstable** [+3]  (16 hours later)
>> 
>> The calorie counting has definitely worked for me. I use an app that lets me enter what I eat and gives me a daily target for calories consumed. I'm pretty sure that the apps estimated calories are not that accurate usually, but the fact that I am noting it down and thinking about what I eat seems to be the more important thing. I have to decide "is that really worth the X number of calories I would get by consuming it? How much do I really want that"

>> **u/abstractwhiz** [+2]  *Friendly Eldritch Abomination* (2 days later)
>> 
>> Tracking stuff is really useful. About a month ago I started carefully timing myself at work with Emacs org-mode timers and task tracking. I've managed to increase my productive time by about 20% since then. 
>> 
>> Fair warning, if you do this you'll be left reeling in disbelief at how little real work you're doing. 50% efficiency should not be surprising at first.

> **u/eaglejarl** [+8]  (9 hours later)
> 
> A simple trick for avoiding impulse buys: ask yourself "if someone would pay me $1.79 to NOT eat that king-sized Snickers bar, would I take the money?"

> **u/None** [+6]  (8 hours later)
> 
> * A nice trick is thinking about "What would someone else do in my position?" This generally makes you think less biased about your situation and opens up new avenues of thought.
> * Frequently think: "Does what I'm doing right now contribute to my larger goal(s)?" This is a general case of the advice given by /u/rumblestiltsken. Long arguments with people you care about doesn't contribute to the larger goal of making those people happy and like you.
> * Another thing I use frequently is treating a single decision as if I was making that same decision for all similar things in the future. Example: My car was almost out of gas and I could either fill it at a station on my way or wait until it was completely out of gas (e.g. the light on your dashboard goes on). Clearly filling it up then was the better option, since I had time and occasion to do it, but my brain was coming up with complex reasons why I shouldn't do it right then. Then I acted as if the decision would be the same for all similar occasions and it'd became very clear how much time I'd waste in a lifetime of making that decision.
> * Second-guess your own decisions and statements. (Unless your brain gets really panicky about that!)
> 
> I know I do more things, but I'm extremely tired and my brain is running at very low speed.

>> **u/kaukamieli** [+2]  (15 hours later)
>> 
>> > Frequently think: "Does what I'm doing right now contribute to my larger goal(s)?" This is a general case of the advice given by /u/rumblestiltsken. Long arguments with people you care about doesn't contribute to the larger goal of making those people happy and like you.
>> 
>> Also, long arguments on the internet with people you don't even know about issues that do not matter at all.

>>> **u/DangerouslyUnstable** [+2]  (16 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Frankly, even when the issues do matter. I still can't help myself sometimes, but I know that getting into arguments about evolution, climate change, or some similar hot button topic will never end satisfactorily.

>>>> **u/boomfarmer** [+1]  *Trying to be helpful* (8 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> But sometimes you just want to see the person say, "Huh. I hadn't considered that."
>>>> 
>>>> Only happens on /r/cmv, though.
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> 
>>>> Sometimes, arguments are cathartic.

>>> **u/rumblestiltsken** [+1]  (19 hours later)
>>> 
>>> No cost though, unlike with people you care about.
>>> 
>>> And they do matter. Public discussion activates biases in the readers, on particular the bias that tells us the more we hear something, the more right it is.
>>> 
>>> If you let loud contrarians have free run without rebuttal, the entire position of the community will shift.
>>> 
>>> Arguments on the internet are rational! QED!

>>>> **u/kaukamieli** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> > If you let loud contrarians have free run without rebuttal, the entire position of the community will shift.
>>>> 
>>>> Yeaa, I don't think it matters much whether or not the community thinks Hermione was graded unfairly. I just couldn't help myself.
>>>> 
>>>> The cost is to yourself. "Aarrgh, I'm doing this again! I've written six long replies and he always answers with a sentence and doesn't answer any points of mine. What's wrong with me?"
>>>> 
>>>> Some arguments on the internet might be rational. But some issues literally do not matter at all.

>>>>> **u/rumblestiltsken** [+2]  (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'd probably go further and say the cost is developing an argumentative approach to general interaction, I know I get more fighty when I internet too much.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But all that means is pick your battles. The rationalist community preaches non-intervention far too much for my tastes.

> **u/abstractwhiz** [+6]  *Friendly Eldritch Abomination* (16 hours later)
> 
> I use a more meta technique to increase the chance I actually use tricks of the form everyone is mentioning here. I explicitly name every trick something short and mentally 'call my attacks' anime style. 
> 
> The combination of sheer cheesiness and mild awesomeness strongly reinforces the habit of using these techniques. It's a little like a mnemonic system -- the fundamental rule of every single one is to make weird and ridiculous associations. As a plus, it also spices up your inner dialogue when you think "Hang on, is doing this really any use to me presently? I invoke True Goal Focus! *(inner voice echoes awesomely, battle aura, war cries, etc.)*"  You might laugh, but I've found myself operating way more sensibly since I've adopted this approach.
> 
> Meanwhile, simply *naming* each trick confers numerous benefits -- they're more easily available, you quickly can run through a list of them, it's easier to reference them in journals for tracking purposes, and it opens your awareness to the possibility of building more advanced techniques by combining simpler ones. The heuristic *name and conquer* is frequently used in mathematics, where the power of good notation for usefully applying reductionism has long been known. For an aspiring rationalist trying to train noticing, naming stuff is the equivalent of chunking. ("Bah, I really don't want to deal with the DMV today...wait, *Ugh Field* detected! Counterattack: *One Small Step*...")
> 
> Quick regex search through my journal reveals several techniques mentioned in the last three weeks. Here are the two I've found most useful.
> 
> **One Small Step**: Apply reductionism to any complex task or problem, especially one that's generating an Ugh Field. Break it into small pieces and do just the first piece. If you can't muster up the motivation to do even that, you haven't decomposed it enough. You must be totally willing to kick common sense to the curb while doing this decomposition. Tasks are infinitely divisible as far as you're concerned.
> 
> As an example, I had to fill out some forms and mail a letter, and I was totally demotivated. So at one point, an item on my decomposition was 'look for stamps in desk drawer'. This literally takes all of 5 seconds. It was the only piece of the task I did that day. But I kept reapplying this to the task for days, and it was done in less than a week. Had I let myself procrastinate, nothing would have happened for a couple of months, and that slight niggling feeling of guilt would keep floating around in my head. This is the single most effective anti-procrastination technique I've found, because it requires basically zero willpower. 
> 
> **Look One Step Ahead**: I think this is my #1 real life application of instrumental rationality. I try to look one step ahead as much as possible, in order to gain a more long-term perspective. I've only been doing this for a couple of weeks, and now I find myself looking *two* steps ahead, because one step ahead has slowly turned into unconscious behavior. I figure this will extend to several more steps if I keep practicing.

>> **u/rumblestiltsken** [+2]  (20 hours later)
>> 
>> I love this idea, but I feel it will make me weird(er) to hang around with.

>>> **u/abstractwhiz** [+1]  *Friendly Eldritch Abomination* (2 days later)
>>> 
>>> How? Do you hang out with telepaths? It's not like you're saying these things out loud. :P

>>>> **u/rumblestiltsken** [+3]  (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> Anything I do compulsively eventually bleeds out into the real world. Doesn't that happen to everyone?

>>>>> **u/Bowbreaker** [+2]  *Solitary Locust* (5 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> You start saying stuff out loud?

>>>>>> **u/rumblestiltsken** [+2]  (6 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No, not usually (sometimes) but I often pause for prolonged periods of time while thinking about something.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also notice the more time I spend in my own head, the less eye contact I make in meatspace.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The funniest is when practicing lucid dreaming and you stop every ten minutes to count your fingers or try to breathe through a blocked nose.

>> **u/xamueljones** [+2]  *My arch-enemy is entropy* (20 hours later)
>> 
>> Thanks for sharing your tricks. Do you also have any "names" for noticing moments of irrationality like *Ugh Field*?

>>> **u/abstractwhiz** [+2]  *Friendly Eldritch Abomination* (2 days later)
>>> 
>>> I usually just think of this as 'noticing', and I'm not very good at it yet. But I can definitely see improvements over the last few weeks, since I started this.

> **u/Farmerbob1** [+3]  *Level 1 author* (23 hours later)
> 
> Is it rational to follow patterns that you know will reduce the negative impacts of irrational behaviors that you can't make entirely go away?
> 
> For instance.  I am mildly OCD and ADD.  Over the decades, I have developed mental tricks and behaviors that I use to play these two tendencies against one another.
> 
> For instance.  My keys, wallet, phone, and other absolutely critical bits and pieces of my life are absolutely always, every time put in the same place every day.  I carry them in the same way on my body when I leave the house, and when I return to the house, they go in exactly the same place.  No exceptions.  My pens always run out of ink, I never lose them.  I haven't locked my keys in my truck or lost my wallet in over twenty years.  However, the rest of my physical possessions are far more fluid.  Things that I do not need are allowed to enter rather chaotic states.
> 
> Ideally, there would be a happy medium between these two states, but I cannot manage that, so I've prioritized.  For the critical things in life, I allow my OCD to have free reign.  For the less critical things, I allow the ADD to have free reign.
> 
> These things have shifted over time.  When I was young and working at disposajobs, getting to work on time was not really a priority.  After I started doing professional work with benefits, I shifted that to an OCD category.  I went from not caring about being on time to being 15 minutes early every day, and maintained that habit.  Sick days and weather is the same.  When I'm scheduled to be at work, I'll be there, unless my truck is flipped upside down in my driveway.
> 
> Basically, I pick and choose the bits and pieces of my life that I allow my irrationality to control.

> **u/None** [+2]  (18 hours later)
> 
> I'm not sure if increasing personal self-discipline about things like going to the gym, getting to work on-time, and eating healthy... counts?

>> **u/xamueljones** [+2]  *My arch-enemy is entropy* (20 hours later)
>> 
>> It does, but it feels as if their obviousness should disqualify them in some way, because everyone knowing that should mean that it's a common thing. Unfortunately, knowing and doing are two different things. Let's hope that when people read this post, they will include your suggestions as one of the habits they pick up. ;)

> **u/MugaSofer** [+1]  (11 hours later)
> 
> I've dealt with (mild) bouts of depression much the same way Harry dealt with Dementor exposure in the Azkaban arc. Notice 
> "I wouldn't normally think that", correct for the bias.
> 
> It was before I read HPMOR, and I'm sure it was the *most* rational way of dealing with it, but still.

---