scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/3ced3s.md

## Programmable Magic

* Author: u/rochea *
* URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3ced3s/programmable_magic/
* Score: 15

* Created: 2015-07-07T06:42:55

### Post:

Has anyone ever encountered a magic system where casters are effectively programmers writing code? What would that even look like?

### Comments:

> **u/Solonarv** [+22]  *Chaos Legion* (an hour later)
> 
> [Ra](http://qntm.org/ra) by Sam Hughes (/u/sam512) is pretty much that. Magic there is a mix of differential equations and programming. It's an excellent read, original fiction, and it's also completed.

> **u/rdalex** [+14]  (58 minutes later)
> 
> Basically what Rick Cook's Wiz Biz series is all about.  Normal programmer guy gets summoned by mistake into a fantasy universe in order to save it. Discovers magic exists there. Discovers it can be manipulated. What's a programmer to do? Well...

>> **u/Geminii27** [+6]  (4 hours later)
>> 
>> Not to mention that he's slightly pushed into it by *not being a wizard*, and then discovering that this means "not able to cast big high-energy spells, but tiny micro-spells that do sod-all can be cast by anyone". And spells can *cast other spells*.
>> 
>> I particularly like how he doesn't register as a wizard to magic-detection spells, even when he's throwing around citybuster-level magic, because technically it's not him casting/controlling the high-level stuff, whereas with 'real' wizards they have direct control.

>> **u/clawclawbite** [+2]  (10 hours later)
>> 
>> It's not just magic programing, but also the hacker mindset and practical cs applications and thought processes applied to magic.

>> **u/abstractwhiz** [+1]  *Friendly Eldritch Abomination* (22 hours later)
>> 
>> Should clarify though, in that setting not all wizards are programmers writing code -- it's just the protagonist. Other wizards do the equivalent of writing machine code directly, with all the ridiculous effort that implies. Also, unlike most settings, magic is devastatingly easy to do in this universe. It's just so hard to coordinate everything that people studiously avoid it, out of fear for the horrific consequences that inevitably follow the most minor spells without intensive training.
>> 
>> The programmer guy finds this ludicrous complexity impossible to deal with and builds several layers of abstraction, allowing him to ultimately run spells more massive than any standard wizard could comprehend.

>>> **u/rdalex** [+2]  (4 days later)
>>> 
>>> Well, not quite.  The protagonist was the first to do it, but the whole point of his work, to him, was that _anyone_ could do it, wizards and non-wizards alike.  And eventually, they do.  With the obvious unintended consequences.  "Wait. What? That's not why I wrote _that_!" "Well tough, that's how I use it.  What are you gonna do?".
>>> 
>>> As a programmer myself, working in a smallish (~600 users) healthcare structure, I really, really feel for him.

>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+1]  (2 days later)
>>> 
>>> Although in the sequel they bring through a whole team of programmers. It was fun, although I think each book in the series is better than the one after it.

> **u/Magodo** [+5]  *Ankh-Morpork City Watch* (31 minutes later)
> 
> *The Irregular at Magic High School* does this. It's a pretty interesting system where something called eidos is manipulated with CADs, which take the form of traditional weapons or are wearable.  
> 
> You might want to check it out. Personally I couldn't get past the first light novel.

>> **u/Charlie___** [+1]  (10 hours later)
>> 
>> Have you read Mx0? This premise seems a little similar, and dang, now I am just sad again that there's no more Mx0.
>> 
>> Edit: Looked into TIaMHS, was disappointed, oh well.

>>> **u/abstractwhiz** [+1]  *Friendly Eldritch Abomination* (22 hours later)
>>> 
>>> The anime adaptation is still enormous fun to watch, despite the lost opportunities for munchkinry. Not rationalfic by any means, but it does have some interesting points. For example, the protagonist lacks the ability to feel almost all intense emotion, but is very far from a Straw Vulcan. 
>>> 
>>> ....I think someone needs to write rationalfic for that universe now.

> **u/Dreamliss** [+3]  (54 minutes later)
> 
> Have you heard of Off to Be the Wizard by Scott Meyer? Almost exactly what you described.

> **u/None** [+2]  (14 hours later)
> 
> [deleted]

>> **u/alexanderwales** [+3]  *Time flies like an arrow* (14 hours later)
>> 
>> The newest book (The Annihilation Score) came out today! It's got cthuloid superheroes and junk. Also, Stross is doing an AMA in /r/books tomorrow.

>>> **u/None** [+1]  (21 hours later)
>>> 
>>> >Also, Stross is doing an AMA in /r/books[1] tomorrow.
>>> 
>>> WAHOO!

> **u/DCarrier** [+3]  (2 hours later)
> 
> [CodeSpells](http://codespells.org/) comes to mind.

> **u/JackStargazer** [+3]  *Primordial Apologist* (7 hours later)
> 
> There is an original fiction which is a precursor to a Worm crossover where a SI is investigating an original magic system which functions like this. I was considering posting it as its own post, but I'll toss it here.
> 
> https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/break-them-all-original-precross.12960/
> 
> I'd tag it [WIP][MK][RT][HF] for now. Knowing (a little) where it's going from the later Worm crossover, I suspect [TH] is in the works.
> 
> One of the really interesting parts to me is the way spells have an exponential magic cost dependant on degrees of freedom. So, for example, a spell which is specified to an incredible degree, and cannot or does not need to interpret or guess at any other things (the spell formula has taken into account all variables) has its cost in 'willpower' or 'mana' significantly reduced. On the other hand, a common language wish, while possible to do, has absolutely insane energy requirements as the spell itself has to determine all of the thousands of variables needed to make it happen.
> 
> The main character is abducted with a backpack filled with basic science books to the world where he learns magic.  He uses his knowledge of physics to fit in variables that, he suspects, people in other medieval fantasy realms would have always left open, and by doing so turns what might normally be high level magic into cantrips in terms of cost - which he is then able to cast with his mediocre reserves.
> 
> The title and Word of God have implicitly said he's out to break the magic system like an unruly horse, so I expect more of the same.
> 
> The OP has it all written but is posting at a glacial pace, and the index is not complete.

>> **u/Charlie___** [+1]  (13 hours later)
>> 
>> This is a fun magic system, thanks for the find.

>> **u/None** [+1]  (a day later)
>> 
>> I tried reading it... but, well, the *style*. It's off by small degrees in grammar and large degrees in technical proficiency. Just read this sentence:
>> 
>> >James' vision was blurred by the sudden light of a noonday sun, which he found startling and disturbing, as he was quite certain it had been dimming towards twilight only a moment before.
>> 
>> Not *unreadable*, but *annoying*.
>> 
>> I skipped to the last chapter and read a few lines. He gets better, but not to the point that it's fun to read.
>> 
>> On the plus side, the issues are mostly with phrasing, so a good editor would be able to fix it.
>> 
>> Bah humbug.

>>> **u/JackStargazer** [+1]  *Primordial Apologist* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Yeah, phrasing and editing errors are something you really have to live with when it comes to online or forum-posted stories.
>>> 
>>> This one was written as part of NANOWRIMO as well, so speed induced errors are likely rampant, and it probably has a less than stellar editing process throughout.

> **u/Meneth32** [+2]  (7 hours later)
> 
> Chapters 7 to 11 of [*Friendship is Optimal*](http://www.fimfiction.net/story/62074/friendship-is-optimal) features programmable magic and explores a non-euclidean grid space.

>> **u/ben_sphynx** [+1]  (11 hours later)
>> 
>> Just started reading Friendship is Optimal. Seems awesome, although I've not got far into it yet. Thanks for mentioning it.

>>> **u/NNOTM** [+1]  (13 hours later)
>>> 
>>> You might also want to read the recursive fanfic "Caelum est Conterrens" after you're done with Friendship is Optimal. Although I don't necessarily recommend looking it up before you've completed Friendship is Optimal as the summary on fimfiction.net contains potential spoilers for FiO.

> **u/alexanderwales** [+1]  *Time flies like an arrow* (7 hours later)
> 
> I had one a while back based on SQL queries. [You can read about it here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/comments/186l1y/a_crud_magic_system_v2/) I should finish up one of the stories in that world. (Because magic is basically poorly-understood SQL injection, magic has negative side effects that equate to warnings or exceptions.) If you want to read my first scribblings, which are not actually a story, just characters discussing the system, [that's here.](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vViAoDwFX7KoL9yLJDXIUtVu97wvgZgTDpTAOHb8Kec/edit?usp=sharing)

>> **u/None** [+2]  (a day later)
>> 
>> That's a clever way to use a wand. I can also imagine this being a useful way to use runes - for when you want to cast a precise spell at a distance, for example, you can just specify the rune - perhaps each wizard has a personal one - and add in a component that destroys the rune.

> **u/mack2028** [+1]  (13 hours later)
> 
> the anime Oh my goddess

> **u/libertarian_reddit** [+1]  (14 hours later)
> 
> Not rational fiction, but I believe magic operated like that in the video game series Xenosaga.

> **u/None** [+1]  (a day later)
> 
> See Myst: Worlds are created by Writing, and in Riven the world is actually unstable because the Writing was poor and Atrus has to spend a lot of time patching it (while it is running!) to keep it from degenerating completely.

>> **u/CopperZirconium** [+2]  (6 days later)
>> 
>> Those were fun games. I think I played Riven at least four times through.

> **u/Over9000Autos** [+1]  (6 years later)
> 
> https://www.scribblehub.com/series/354009/programmable-magic/

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