scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/3ynfot.md

## [RT][FF] Rational Worm slight!AU (Beta Call)

* Author: u/None *
* URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3ynfot/rtff_rational_worm_slightau_beta_call/
* Score: 4

* Created: 2015-12-29T12:50:15

### Post:

Hey guys, I've been chipping at this Wormfic for about a year. There's 4 chapters of Prologue and I'm just about done for the 4 chapters at 15k words. There's a bit of flashback left that's not yet completed, but I can't wait! So who's up for beta? I need about 2-3 of you :)

Sample from the Chapter 1 of the Prologue:

Coil sipped his champagne. It was too light and too sweet, but it was his only pleasure in the company of bores. Billion dollar mergers, summer houses in Europe, imported Lamborghinis, children in Ivy Leagues... The men and women on board had only money and the most predictable of ambitions. 

He stared out from the side of the yacht. 

Four and five-star hotels and resorts lined the Boardwalk, interspersed, he knew, by top-rated restaurants, bars and clubs, the Lord Street Market, the Heroes Museum, the Bay Casino, and other profitable attractions. 

Most of them owned by him in some way, shape or form.

Coil smiled. 

"May I refill your glass, sir?" asked a waiter. 

Coil agreed, and the waiter poured more champagne into his emptied flute. Then, he stepped once more towards that uninspiring morass. Unfortunately, he still had to bear a mask of civility in society. 

"Brockton Bay is split into two," he heard someone say. 

Coil approached the man and his companion. He did not recognise either man, and it appeared that neither were from Brockton. 

"Coil’s Organisation,” said the first man, “Led by Coil, controls the Boardwalk and the Docks. Coil’s forces are a mix of local and non-local parahumans, counter-parahuman mercenaries, Boardwalk Enforcers, and enforcers from the remnants of ethnic gangs. The Empire Eighty-Eight is led by Kaiser. 

“Eight refers the eighth letter of the alphabet, ‘H’,” said the man, proud. “So, Eighty-Eight refers to ‘HH’, code for ‘Heil Hitler’. They’re White Supremacists controlling the suburbs. Though their forces are lesser in number and less diverse, they have more parahumans than any other faction, including the Brockton Protectorate.

“Both Kaiser and Coil are fighting for control of the Downtown-"

"Fighting?" said the second man, startled.

"Not guns-and-parahumans fighting,” the first man corrected. “They’re both businessmen, and they’re both after profits. Profits neither will have if there are no tourists buying overpriced Martinis, or no middle-to-upper class tax base in the suburbs. 

"So, they’re more subtle about their fighting. They subsidise their charities and businesses to expand in each other's territories. Push their people in each other's corporate Boards and local Associations. Bribe each other's people to their side. Implement one-sided rules to stop each other from expanding their influence, and so on.”

“But, you ask, ‘Why doesn’t the Protectorate arrest them?’” asked the first man excitedly, as the second man patiently listened. “Why should they? The two sides not being violent. They might charge protection ‘fees’ and only hire and promote their supporters. Things might be a little more expensive and people might be a little less free. 

“If the Protectorate tries to arrest them, though, they might go full Chicago, and then that’s on the Protectorate. 

“Then, there’s the fact that thirteen of the Empire’s parahumans are enrolled in Brockton’s Endbringer Defense. Two Class Ones, five Class Twos and one Class U. If the Empire unenrolls, Brockton immediately loses at least half of its defenses.”

“Not to mention,” said the first man, in a conspiring tone, “The Empire Eighty-Eight is allied with the Mayor. They say half of the City Council is in the Empire’s pockets. The other half? Coil-”

"Calvert," interrupted a third person, with a smarmy familiarity. "I hope I’ve not interrupted."

Coil turned towards Roy Christner, the forty-something, heavy-set, blonde-haired Mayor of Brockton Bay. The two people from before, seeing the Mayor, left.

"Christner," Coil greeted, turning towards the Mayor, smiling. “It’s been a long time. No, not all."

"I trust Fortress Construction is doing well?" asked Christner.

“Well enough to break for a drink, as you can see,” said Coil, raising his champagne flute.

The Mayor laughed. "You’re a busy man, as always. I hear you even signed a contract with the Port of New York."

"You hear a lot of things," said Coil. He paused. "But yes, the Port of New York contracted Fortress Construction rebuild the sections Atrophy damaged."

"And New York’s taxpayers are getting the best deal for their tax dollars!” exclaimed Christner. “Dependable schedules, reliable construction, a reasonable CEO… I told Mayor Scranton how much Fortress Construction has done for the Bay, by the way. You may not have been born here, you’re one of the Bay’s own."

Coil smiled as they cheered their glasses. "We couldn’t have done it without your support."

"Fortress Construction is still expanding, of course," said Christner, and Coil had a suspicion of the Mayor’s scheme. 

If only Christner knew, that Kaiser’s fall had already been set in motion, and his own fall would soon follow. The man from before had been right that the Protectorate did not care about the Empire Eighty-Eight. But that complacency depended on the Empire’s image in Brockton Bay as a benign quasi-government, and ignorance of the Empire outside of Brockton. 

A reporter in the right place and the right time, a little exaggerated misery-making, a little political example-making, a few corruption scandals, a few denials and uncertainties, and Brockton Bay could be national, prime-time TV. 

Once the Empire Eighty-Eight’s shield of apathy had broken, the Protectorate had to attempt to capture Kaiser and the other members of the Empire to protect their own reputation. Christner and his allies in the City Council could be pressured to retire. The State Government then had to depend on him to maintain stability, establishing him as Brockton Bay’s only power.

“Of course,” said Coil, smiling and sipping his champagne.

“And FC Hotels?” asked Christner.

"The Board has considered it,” Coil said, playing along. “But our construction business is our most profitable business, and the current market for hotels and resorts is saturated, especially here in the Bay."

The Mayor’s eyes lit up, confirming Coil’s suspicions.

Christner had been attempting to expand his influence in the Boardwalk, independently from the Empire Eighty-Eight, since his previous re-election. 

But Christner had also previously limited himself to regulating the businesses on the Boardwalk and pressuring the suppliers to the businesses. To attempt to influence the Boardwalk through a proxy, he must have been confident of his influence vis-à-vis Kaiser.

"A disappointment," said Christner. "I entertained the Governor's friends at the Crystal Blue once, and they were impressed. The natural, ocean-like design is more beautiful than all the other hotels on the Boardwalk, and the Tinker-crafted glass makes the sea itself seems to shine like a field of crystals. Absolutely stunning.”

"You should be careful of your praise,” said Coil, “Or I might suspect you had some use of me.”

The Mayor smiled coyly. "The City Council had been scouting for local businesses to promote. They might be able to help you compete against more dubious operations that have beset our fine city as of late."

Coil smiled along. "That's generous of the Council. The Board shall take it into consideration."

Christner’s smile faded. “Of course, I understand it is a difficult decision. But I have great hopes that you can help me represent the /true/ Brockton Bay.”

He cheered his glass, still seeming disappointed. “I shall leave you to consider it, then.”

The Mayor turned to leave, then stopped and half-turned to Coil, index finger raised as though he remembered something.

"I also heard Sanctuary Construction is giving you trouble on your other projects in New York," the Mayor said. "I happen to be meeting Scranton for a conference the next weekend. If there are any concerns you’d like me to raise..."

"I shall be in touch with you, Mayor."

Christner smiled again, cheering his glass in parting. "You are a reasonable man."

Coil smiled at the Mayor as he left.

If only Christner knew...

### Comments:

> **u/Rhamni** [+6]  *Aspiring author* (50 minutes later)
> 
> I'll Beta. Worm has its flaws, but mostly of the "this fight lasted for 20k words" rather than the "why does no one think of x" variety. It'll be interesting to see what a Rational Coil gets up to (Assuming he stays the PoV character).

>> **u/OrzBrain** [+9]  **Fingers* to *dance*, *hands* to *catch*, *arms* to *pull** (7 hours later)
>> 
>> > Worm has its flaws, but mostly of the "this fight lasted for 20k words"
>> 
>> Don't you mean, "One of the most awesome things about Worm is the fights lasting for upwards of 20k words and still not boring or over long (except for the one with Echidna)"?
>> 
>> Also, my "super clunky infodump alert" alarm went off just a few paragraphs into the sample and rapidly grew too loud to allow me to continue reading.

>>> **u/Rhamni** [+3]  *Aspiring author* (8 hours later)
>>> 
>>> The length of the Echidna battle was indeed what I was referring to, although I'm generally on the side of shorter, more concentrated battles in most fiction.

>>> **u/None** [+2]  (8 hours later)
>>> 
>>> > Also, my "super clunky infodump alert" alarm went off just a few paragraphs into the sample and rapidly grew too loud to allow me to continue reading.
>>> 
>>> Not much choice on the infodump, if I'm going to establishing a rational setting, though.
>>> 
>>> Edit: I do try to keep the infodumps in character and interesting. In this case, I was establishing that this random person was a braggart, and that represented the culture of the movers and shakers on the yacht.

>>>> **u/Rhamni** [+2]  *Aspiring author* (9 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> People have vastly different preferences when it comes to infodumps. I don't mind them so much, but some do. You can never satisfy everyone, and in the end only you can decide how much is needed, and how it's presented. That said, on the writing subs this is probably the most common criticism people have of every author ever. I don't understand it, and have grudgingly adjusted by toning down and camouflaging my own dumping, though that's much easier in original fiction, where the whole world is an unknown, than in fanfics, where the reader will assume they know things to be true unless you explicitly point out that it's not.

>>>>> **u/None** [+2]  (9 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Haha, true. I think there's a lot of bad infodumps by beginning authors, and I stop reading when I see them as well. Thanks for your support.

>>>>>> **u/Rhamni** [+2]  *Aspiring author* (9 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I mean, I will probably have a few things to 'complain' about when I've read the whole thing, but infodumps are something I just don't mind most of the time.

>>>>>>> **u/None** [+2]  (9 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 'Complain' ahead :P Any thought-out feedback is good feedback.

>>>>>>>> **u/OrzBrain** [+2]  **Fingers* to *dance*, *hands* to *catch*, *arms* to *pull** (a day later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It's not that I dislike infodumps, it's that I dislike super clunky ones. Three or four paragraphs into the story and the POV character runs into some random people having an "as you know, Bob" conversation which lays out all the differences from cannon for the reader? 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Come *on*! This is supposed to be a rational story? People don't have those kinds of conversations in real life for the most part, certainly not so conveniently. What people actually do all the time in real life is go over some part of their situation in their head, explain it to themselves (at least I do this), to come up with ideas and fresh insights. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You've got a close POV on the thoughts of a character who is in the know. Use it! If you want to spice it up and make it interesting have Coil come to some unusual or unexpected or ironic conclusions. (Maybe, "I really value that Skitter, I think she will be the most useful of my minions, and will never use a deathtrap if I try to kill her because that might be very dangerous." Or a discussion of exactly why he will never let his soldiers carry grenades of any kind if he tries to catch Skitter in a death trap. Or something else interesting and kind of awesome.) 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Don't do "as you know, Bob" between strangers just as he happens to be walking by. At this rate next thing you'll have the plot look in a mirror and describe how tall it is and how handsome or busty. If you've got to take an infodump, just take the dump, don't dress it up with devices that were clunky a century ago.

>>>>>>>>> **u/None** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hm, I suspect I'd have been better served by sampling a different scene. In general, in the fic, there's insight into the characters through the exposition (though I'm obviously biased.) In that particular case though, neither Coil nor Christner were likely to reveal information necessary to the story. I'll taken your feedback into note though, and see if I can polish that bit up a bit. I actually had Coil having fun joining into the conversation talking about himself in an earlier iteration.

>>>> **u/Jakkubus** [+2]  (9 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Actually Worm setting is already quite rational TBH.

>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+2]  (23 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Not really. It's always puzzled me why it's in the rational canon.

>>>>>> **u/Jakkubus** [+1]  (23 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why? Doesn't it fit characteristics of rational fiction?

>>>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+3]  (23 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Not really. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Taylor is the only one who munchkins her powers. That one guy who made hands come out of things actually had to have her tell him "hey, you should carry around samples of stuff to make hands come out of."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No one actually uses their powers efficiently. Taylor should be pollinating fields and removing pests, not engaging in Righteous Face Punching by insect proxy. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The entire setting can only be made even vaguely plausible by alien worms in people's heads taking away their free will and forcing them to act in accordance with the plot. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So, no. Not terribly rational.

>>>>>>>> **u/Jakkubus** [+2]  (23 hours later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> IIRC rational fiction is not about EVERYONE striving for rational methods. Worm powers are constructed to drive conflicts, not to help people. That's why entities created them. If someone tries to do otherwise, Endbringer appears and puts an end to said activity (like with Mannequin or Dragon's creator). To change it you would have to basically write it basically from scratch. Also characters are not completely mindfucked by their passengers. They still have their own goals and reasons.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Completely rewritting particular setting to fit one's agenda doesn't seem very rational.

>>>>>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+3]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> > Worm powers are constructed to drive conflicts, 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> My point exactly. The reason that all the conflict in the story happens is authorial fiat. "Authorial fiat" is spelled "alien worms", but that doesn't change what it is. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> > Completely rewritting particular setting to fit one's agenda doesn't seem very rational.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I...think that was supposed to be an insult?  In any case, I'm not suggesting it should be rewritten. I'm suggesting it shouldn't be in the rational canon.

>>>>>>>>>> **u/Jakkubus** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> And if you take away these alien worms, what will remain? They are basically the centerpiece of Worm. Removing them is like writting Harry Potter without magic. Of course you can write a story, when both entities crashlanded, there are no Endbringers and everyone is working for the sake of humanity, but I wouldn't call something like that rational setting, but rather utopia. What did humanity IRL after discovering nuclear fission? Gave everyone in the world cheap energy? Nope, aside from creating some nuclear power plants they nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Setting, where everyone is rational and uses his/her resources to help the world instead of caring about own gain doesn't seem very rational, cause it assumes all people to be "good".
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Insult? Nope, I am just saying, that rewritting setting to fit particular ideas, that are conflicting it's basic idea doesn't seem to be very rational. If you felt offended, then sorry, it wasn't my intent.

>>>>>>>>>>> **u/eaglejarl** [+2]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> > And if you take away these alien worms, what will remain?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> A story that isn't rational or isn't anything like Worm, one or the other. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> > Of course you can write a story, when both entities crashlanded, there are no Endbringers and everyone is working for the sake of humanity, but I wouldn't call something like that rational
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> There's some confusion here. I'm not suggesting anything should change about the story, I'm not suggesting any ways to make it more rational or utopia-like. I'm saying that it's not a rational story as written.

>>> **u/alexanderwales** [+2]  *Time flies like an arrow* (7 hours later)
>>> 
>>> > Don't you mean, "One of the most awesome things about Worm is the fights lasting for upwards of 20k words and still not boring or over long (except for the one with Echidna)"?
>>> 
>>> We probably have different preferences, because most of the major set-piece fights that went on for tens of thousands of words started to fatigue and then bore me. (I'm pretty sure that this is a common complaint, though people vary widely in which particular fights they felt the fatigue on.)

>>>> **u/JackStargazer** [+1]  *Primordial Apologist* (8 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> I have the same issue. I always find myself skimming very long combat setpieces which are in the same PoV, with very few exceptions. It's hard to stay invested.

>>> **u/thecommexokid** [+1]  (4 days later)
>>> 
>>> Anecdotal evidence time! I can report eventually giving up on Worm around Arc 16 or so specifically because I just couldn't take it anymore, despite really enjoying Taylor's character and story. I tend not to like the superhero genre in general for this reason.
>>> 
>>> Also re: "not over long" — my feeling all the way from chapter 1.01 to wherever it was I gave up was that the story's wordcount could be reduced by about 50% with no ill effect. Which is fine! Wildbow was outputting chapters at a remarkable rate, and cutting excess verbiage is a task for the editing phase, not the drafting phase. But I absolutely found every chapter — every paragraph, even — overlong.

> **u/Jakkubus** [+7]  (5 hours later)
> 
> Hmm, what are you writing next? Rational HPMOR fanfic? :P

>> **u/tilkau** [+4]  (13 hours later)
>> 
>> The setting contains Contessa and the Simurgh. You would have to remove them both from the setting to have any assurance that anyone of note, aside from Zion, could choose to act rationally.

>>> **u/Jakkubus** [+3]  (23 hours later)
>>> 
>>> To achieve it, you would also have to throw away also entities and shards (and thus completely remake power system), since passengers affect parahumans subconsciously to create conflicts. 
>>> 
>>> And well, IMO that would make Worm setting rather Mary Sue utopia than rational fiction.

>>>> **u/tilkau** [+4]  (23 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> > entities and shards (and thus completely remake power system), since passengers affect parahumans subconsciously to create conflicts. 
>>>> 
>>>> The degree of this influence is never actually made clear. It's easy to say it is mild, for the sake of the story. Even if you say that it is strong, it doesn't preclude writing a rational fic.
>>>>  It's also doubtful that Scion cares about doing .. anything ever, really, so he's not really a pressing concern in terms of agency, either, even if he had the best PtV in existence.
>>>> 
>>>> Contessa and the Simurgh, on the other hand, *are* actively interfering, and are pretty much literal deus ex machina. "Basically everything was a Simurgh plot, except the parts that were Contessa plots" -- not disprovable. **Nobody**, aside from Scion and maybe endbringers, **has the power to figure out what is really going on** if Contessa or Simurgh don't want them to. I'm not asking for people to be totally free of influence, I'm just saying it has to be merely *possible* for them to figure out what is really going on; they have to have some amount of agency higher than zero, rather than merely having the illusion of agency.

>>>>> **u/Jakkubus** [+2]  (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> It isn't strong, but don't forget that powers go to most fucked up people not to most sane, so even slight push may affect them. Scion IIRC cares about gathering as much combat data for his shards as he can.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But even so, Simurgh and Contessa are not omniscient and certain capes are beyond their calculations.

>>>>>> **u/tilkau** [+3]  (a day later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > don't forget that powers go to most fucked up people not to most sane
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> *Natural triggers* do, yes. Cauldron capes are less clear.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > Scion IIRC cares about gathering as much combat data for his shards as he can.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you take a very generous interpretation of 'cares' (ie. 'I remember caring about this once. I should do a thing with that? I guess maybe.'), yes. He manages the shards because that's 'what he's supposed to do', but he's also very aware that 'what he's supposed to do' is pointless.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > But even so, Simurgh and Contessa are not omniscient and certain capes are beyond their calculations.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> True.. I don't know what you can do with it though.  Say Eidolon wants to figure out how Contessa ticks, in detail.. Okay, probably doable if Contessa isn't actively trying to prevent it. Or figuring out the endbringers, even. But as soon as he starts looking outside that, to people and organizations that are not Contessa-immune / Simurgh immune.. what is really going on -- for example, whether any individual is truly competent or simply important enough to be managed by C or S for the time being -- falls into doubt.

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