scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/4hk3ac.md

## [RT-ish] Daredevil and Elektra Have A Conversation

* Author: u/blazinghand  *Chaos Undivided**
* URL: http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/2016/05/02/daredevil-and-elektra-have-a-conversation/
* Score: 19

* Created: 2016-05-02T22:07:26

### Post:

[Link to content](http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/2016/05/02/daredevil-and-elektra-have-a-conversation/)

### Comments:

> **u/wtfbbc** [+15]  (2 hours later)
> 
> While this is entertaining, I really don't think that the absence of the Avengers can be taken as a meaningful critique of the storytelling in *Daredevil*. I mean, it's obvious that the writers didn't have access to the Avengers characters, so they wrote around that gap. If I had to choose between "universe where Daredevil doesn't call the Avengers for no reason" and "universe where Daredevil does call the Avengers, then the show gets cancelled because they can't afford to call the Avengers" ...
> 
> [](#s "Also ironic to me that everyone's main complaint is 'Why haven't they just called the Avengers,' and then in a movie where they DO call the Avengers -- looking at you, Civil War -- everyone goes 'Why are they calling this Captain America, it's clearly Avengers 2.5' like jeez")
> 
> For what it's worth, I think the writers did a great job telling a story with gray morality and well-written, complex characters. And at least when people are repeatedly invulnerable to ridiculously dangerous stuff, they're consistently so. I'm not saying the show is /r/rational rational, but the writers clearly *tried* to hit the four characteristics, and I give them credit for that.

>> **u/callmebrotherg** [+3]  *now posting as /u/callmesalticidae* (6 hours later)
>> 
>> I'm one of those people who asks, "Why didn't they call the Avengers?" but I'm not one of those people who asks, "Why aren't they calling this Avengers 2.0?"
>> 
>> I'd be happy with some sort of quick excuse for why the Avengers don't appear in a given film, though. And that's not always necessary, either. In Winter Soldier, the lack of Tony Stark and Co. wasn't a problem for me (we can always assume that Thor is "out," Hulk would make things worse, and it doesn't seem like contacting Tony Stark or Hawkeye would have been easy or even possible given the circumstances).

>> **u/gridpoint** [+2]  (8 hours later)
>> 
>> Re: Avengers 2.5 - why does it have to be all or nothing? If CW only had an extra Avenger or 2, it would still be Captain America and nobody would be calling it an Avengers movie. CA2: Winter Soldier had Falcon and Black Widow. Ant-man had Falcon too. 
>> 
>> If Daredevil did encounter a major problem, bringing in a single Avenger or Shield/government agent to check it out is eminently rational.

>>> **u/Izeinwinter** [+2]  (5 days later)
>>> 
>>> It really depends... How much would an Elizabeth Olsen cameo cost? 
>>> 
>>> Because you could actually have a very short scene that would establish why they'd avoid mentioning them again. 
>>> 
>>> Same conversation at the edge of the pit: 
>>> 
>>> Scarlet Witch walks in: "We don't have a phone line, actually. It'd be redundant. Nice hole."
>>> Scarlet Witch walks over the edge and drops out of sight. 
>>> Elektra: "I like her."
>>> DD. "Uhm. She smells really weird."
>>> 
>>> Scarlet Witch walks back into the scene. From the same direction.
>>> she's carrying a very large heart in her left hand. "Hellgate. One of the chinese hells. Didn't recognize the doorman. Not going to be using this gate again for the next thirty years. If you'll exuse me, going to collapse this shaft before the nuke detonates." 
>>> 
>>> She hold up the heart. It catches fire. Scene shakes. Hole collapses.  Then the scene shakes again.  
>>> 
>>> "When you find the person opening hell gates, speak my name thrice" 
>>> 
>>> Exit left. 
>>> 
>>> Elektra: "I have never been more turned on". 
>>> 
>>> DD: "Let's never speak of this again."
>>> 
>>> Elektra: "KK".

>>> **u/wtfbbc** [+1]  (12 hours later)
>>> 
>>> As I said, it's rational for the writers to make that choice, up until the point where it gets the show cancelled.
>>> 
>>> Edit: I should mention that Captain America 2 *doesn't* have all the Avengers. It's missing Hulk and Thor both.

>>>> **u/callmebrotherg** [+1]  *now posting as /u/callmesalticidae* (19 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Then the writers shouldn't paint themselves into a corner where they have to choose between making a crappy show, and getting it canceled.

>>>>> **u/wtfbbc** [+3]  (20 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I guess you mean "shouldn't"? I'm pretty sure any significant crimefighting scenario is about right for the Avengers: the Punisher; Fisk; the ninjas; where do we draw the line? Although I'm pretty sure Stick would be bothered if anyone besides his secret training crew got involved in his secret war. I think trust in the Avengers is generally pretty low – see Ant-Man and the upcoming Sokovia Accords storyline.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In any case, I don't think the absence of the Avengers is enough to make *Daredevil* a "crappy show." I generally prefer to enjoy things over not enjoying things. But maybe my standards are lower than mean for this sub.

>>>>>> **u/callmebrotherg** [+1]  *now posting as /u/callmesalticidae* (20 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Whoops typo!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't watch Daredevil, so I assumed that the scenario in *Daredevil and Elektra Have a Conversation* was pulled from the show, and that *does* seem like something that the Avengers or at least SHIELD would be interested in. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Alternately, "We aren't going to talk to the Avengers because [lack of trust]" would also be good. If anything like that was mentioned in the show (even once, because I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "We're not talking to the Avengers about [thing] because we don't trust them" just once, and then expecting the viewers to remember that the next time that the Avengers might be relevant), then it looks like *D&E Have a Conversation* is a terrible strawman.

>>>>>> **u/Uncaffeinated** [+1]  (5 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Alternatively, the Avengers are off doing more important world saving and can't be bothered with some little thugs in one city.

> **u/None** [+6]  (51 minutes later)
> 
> I feel like there should be a tag for rational satire. Like that series /u/eaglejarl did on Stargate, or this.

>> **u/duffmancd** [+2]  (a day later)
>> 
>> There is [DC] but I get what you mean, it comes up often enough.

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