scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/5bgcc7.md

## Battle of Gondor mission analysis by a US Army staff officer using current doctrine

* Author: u/neshalchanderman *
* URL: https://angrystaffofficer.com/2016/11/04/warfighter-middle-earth/
* Score: 83

* Created: 2016-11-06T15:49:40

### Post:

[Link to content](https://angrystaffofficer.com/2016/11/04/warfighter-middle-earth/)

### Comments:

> **u/Wiron** [+32]  (2 hours later)
> 
> It reminded me about this old forum thread.
> 
> [If LotR Had Been Written By Someone Else!?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=138905)
> 
> >The King of the Nazgul (KotN) fingered the safety buckle that secured the shortsword in it's scabbard. It was modeled after the Gladius design, making it wholly inadequate for going up against Elven armour, but it was perfectly suited for being jammed in the collarbone of a Hobbit 'merc, without calling too much attention to it's owner. His XO, "Camel" Khamul had used a similar weapon in numerous CoIN missions in North Gondor, where he had been sent to disrupt "Elrond's" supply fellowships sneaking down the Is-ild-ur trail.
> The KotN smiled, even without a head. This mission was almost going to be a mead-run. Taking out a squad of sleeping halflings was going to be easier than slaying Wyvyrns sitting on a tarmac...
> 
> >*Hunt for the Ring, Tom Clancy*

> **u/OrzBrain** [+13]  **Fingers* to *dance*, *hands* to *catch*, *arms* to *pull** (a day later)
> 
> Well, looks like someone with an understanding of Military Jargon translator translated LOTR into it. Nifty.
> 
> You know what would be niftier? If someone who spoke Military Jargonese but had never heard of LOTR came along and tried to translate this back into epic fantasy-ese. Would it be like one of those jokes where they show you what happens when you use a machine translator to translate something from English to a foreign language and then translate the result back and forth a few times?
> 
> "And then Aragorn swung the light tactical warhead at the Witch King's head, but Sauron had hacked the encryption on the base code of reality and was able to institute a just in time patch to the physics engine, resulting in a failure to detonate."
> 
> It sometimes bothers me in fiction when I start wondering exactly how much information is really encoded in the jargon. The PRT ratings from Worm are a perfect example.
> 
> "Okay, fellow PRT men. We are here to deal with a highly dangerous individual, one Skitter. Use of extreme force is authorized. According to the briefing command transmitted before coms cut out she is an, um, Master 8, bugs."
> 
> "What the heck does that mean, Sarge?"
> 
> "Good question. Squad two, you up for a recon probe?"
> 
> "Oh hell, Sarge. Do we have to?"
> 
> "Sorry, men. Them's the breaks. Hey, before you leave, anyone want to place a bet on whether "Master 8, bugs" means she's going to turn your biomass into a swarm of bugs under her control, or mutate you into giant bugs that serve her, or cause you to hallucinate and think there are bugs everywhere, or cause your clothes and equipment to turn into bugs, or cause bugs to start hatching inside you and borrowing their way out?"

>> **u/Bowbreaker** [+5]  *Solitary Locust* (a day later)
>> 
>> None of the ones you mentioned are pure master class abilities. Some of them would be considered master/shaker/breaker or even not master at all.
>> 
>> What could have been bug-related master is if she summons bugs or if she can use bugs to control humans. It also leaves blank the possibility of the bugs themselves having supernatural powers. But transforming vital assets into controllable creatures or substances would not be considered purely master.

>>> **u/OrzBrain** [+3]  **Fingers* to *dance*, *hands* to *catch*, *arms* to *pull** (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Isn't "cause you to hallucinate and think there are bugs everywhere" pure master? It masters humans by causing them to start screaming and flailing around and it relates to bugs.
>>> 
>>> And what is "mutate you into a giant bug"? Is that breaker or master?

>>>> **u/Bowbreaker** [+3]  *Solitary Locust* (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> > Isn't "cause you to hallucinate and think there are bugs everywhere" pure master? It masters humans by causing them to start screaming and flailing around and it relates to bugs.
>>>> 
>>>> IMO it isn't really a Master class ability if the person with the power doesn't have some control as to how you flail about. I'm not sure though. Where general insanity and/or hallucinatory powers considered Master class? I can't at the moment come up with an in-story example. Long time ago that I read Worm.
>>>> 
>>>> >And what is "mutate you into a giant bug"? Is that breaker or master?
>>>> 
>>>> According to the wiki Rachel (Bitch/Hellhound) is a Master 5/Striker 5. Amy (Panacea) is a Striker 9 as well. I don't remember though if she had to touch her dogs to transform them or not. I don't think any canon character had the ability to transform people at range, especially not unilaterally and without some kind of targeting mechanism.
>>>> 
>>>> I guess the classification system may be lacking in that department.

>>>>> **u/Roxolan** [+2]  *Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager* (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> To note, Bitch's Master classification is (as intended) about what kind of threat she offers in combat, not what her power actually does. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> She doesn't get (much) *supernatural* control over her dogs, and *she* can't supernaturally harm you on contact. But her rating tells you "there are entities under her control, and some kind of close-contact threat".
>>>>> 
>>>>> There does seem to be a hole in the classification for "beneficially altering other human beings without controlling them or interacting with their powers". Othala is the only such character in canon (Panacea could have, but didn't), and her rating is not known.

>>>>>> **u/Bowbreaker** [+1]  *Solitary Locust* (2 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Classifications aren't about the powers anyway but about the people wielding them and how they can use their powers.

>>>>> **u/OrzBrain** [+3]  **Fingers* to *dance*, *hands* to *catch*, *arms* to *pull** (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> > I don't think any canon character had the ability to transform people at range, especially not unilaterally and without some kind of targeting mechanism.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the S9000 could do *something* weird involving turning people into temporary monsters under his control.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Edit, from the wiki: Psychosoma warps people into twisted wall-climbing monsters that he controls. If these monsters are damaged enough, the effect breaks and the victims are returned to their normal and unhurt selves. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Classification
>>>>> Stranger 4, Master 7
>>>>> 
>>>>> Doesn't seem to have a breaker or striker classification. Where does the stranger come from?

>>>>>> **u/Roxolan** [+1]  *Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager* (2 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can't say I remember that character, but per that description it could be because the climbing monsters are good at infiltration. [Stranger](http://worm.wikia.com/wiki/Stranger) includes all the things that make someone a good spy (or spy-generator), even if the most famous examples are capes who make themselves invisible in some way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (Another cape who dodges the "enhancer" hole in the classification by mind-controlling his targets.)

>>>>>> **u/Bowbreaker** [+1]  *Solitary Locust* (2 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > Where does the stranger come from?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Being able to suddenly infiltrate enemy lines maybe? He probably doesn't have any breaker/striker classifications because he doesn't do permanent damage to the people transformed. I guess a Skitter bug-themed version of this power would have similar clasifications then.

>>>> **u/Roxolan** [+2]  *Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager* (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> > Isn't "cause you to hallucinate and think there are bugs everywhere" pure master?
>>>> 
>>>> Sounds like a Striker or Blaster (depending on range). 
>>>> 
>>>> Except if her hallucinations give her some control over the victims somehow, but in that case her classification would be "Master [pretty low number], humans".
>>>> 
>>>> Worm power classification is not extremely accurate. There's only so much information you can compress into a couple of words. But that's no different from real-world classification systems, e.g. 
>>>> 
>>>> > Gondor’s sustainment came in the form of massed supplies of Class I and Class V
>>>> 
>>>> The PRT agents who are told that Skitter is "Master 8, bugs" are *considerably* better informed than those who aren't.

> **u/gmrm4n** [+5]  (10 hours later)
> 
> I want him to do one of Aliens now. That seems like something a theoretical West Point student could learn from.

> **u/Schuano** [+5]  (14 hours later)
> 
> He doesn't mention the men from under the mountain at all.

>> **u/FistOfFacepalm** [+8]  (a day later)
>> 
>> The Men of the Mountain only assisted in clearing out the Corsairs in southern Gondor. Aragorn released them at that point then gathered all of the Gondorian forces that had been pinned down by the corsair attacks and brought them to reinforce Minas Tirith.

>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+6]  *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (18 hours later)
>> 
>> You mean the ghosts?  In the 'intelligence' section, the "small Special Forces strike group" is probably just the three runners, but once it's talking about psywar and a maneuver element complementing the Rohirrim I think that's the ghosts.

>>> **u/FistOfFacepalm** [+4]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> No, he's talking about the Gondorian reinforcements brought by Aragorn. The Dead only helped get rid of the corsair fleet.

> **u/Roxolan** [+2]  *Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager* (16 hours later)
> 
> It's fun reading a fantasy battle couched in modern military jargon. 
> 
> I'm not sure it has much value as a teaching tool though, except to learn the terminology. A LotR battle goes a certain way not as an inevitable consequence of the way military leaders managed their assets, but because Tolkien / Peter Jackson decided it would look good and hit the right story note.

>> **u/FistOfFacepalm** [+6]  (a day later)
>> 
>> The movies maybe, but Tolkien was an officer in the First World War, so he knew how to write about battle.

>>> **u/Roxolan** [+4]  *Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> He did it better than an average writer, I'm sure, but WW1 was not won with Rohirrim charges.

>>>> **u/TennisMaster2** [+2]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> "But I thought the Ro-hirr-im charges are what set off the powder keg that killed the treaty with the duke and made his country not exist?  Right?  And then everything was okay.  That's what Mommy said and Mommy doesn't lie because Daddy said that Mommy can't lie and so Mommy is always telling the truth.  And Mommy loves Daddy very much so Daddy can't lie too.  And now we have no more wars!"

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