scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/6uyvm0.md

## [RT] [HF] Mother of Learning Chapter 73: Plodding Ahead

* Author: u/Xtraordinaire  *Team Glimglam**
* URL: https://www.fictionpress.com/s/2961893/73/Mother-of-Learning
* Score: 178

* Created: 2017-08-20T22:45:11

### Post:

[Link to content](https://www.fictionpress.com/s/2961893/73/Mother-of-Learning)

### Comments:

> **u/None** [+42]  (20 minutes later)
> 
> [deleted]

>> **u/Cheese_Ninja** [+43]  (3 hours later)
>> 
>> I'm curious what her response is going to be when they actually show up with Grey Hunter eggs. She seemed pretty unflappable, but two unknown teenagers with vast magical skills showing up outside her undetectable residence with items she wanted but had yet to request from them should merit some reaction. I guess they could bring Lukav or Kael along, since she's somewhat familiar with them, Alanic too, I wonder?
>> 
>> It would be funny if the eggs weren't an ingredient for some potion or ritual, but just something she really wanted to try eating.
>> 
>> Did that one simulacra of Zorian's turn into some sort of gun design enthusiast? It sounds like it started with normal anti-personnel rifle and now is playing with some huge magic-assisted anti-materiel rifle. The only job for the golems will be to make sure the eggs don't get crushed, because it's going to have absurd firepower enough on its own.

>>> **u/cretan_bull** [+19]  (7 hours later)
>>> 
>>> One use of grey hunter eggs would be to farm them. I don't think that's Silverlake's plan, but it could be worthwhile after the timeloop ends, even if just as a source of enhancement potions. Security would be tricky; I think individual alchemical metal cells with airlocks for feeding, all inside a pocket dimension, could be viable.

>>>> **u/MacDancer** [+10]  (23 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Oh God imagine a little army of those things. They don't even have to be trained, just release 'em out of their pocket dimension and laugh...

>>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+6]  *Carbon-based biped* (23 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Farm them inside the orb?

>>>>>> **u/MacDancer** [+9]  (a day later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was thinking of Silverware making a new pocket dimension similar to the one she keeps her house in, but that works too... Hordes of angry death-spiders on command is probably more valuable than a broken down old palace. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Of course,  competent mages probably use anti-dimensionalism wards in combat...

>>>>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+10]  *Carbon-based biped* (a day later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How many mages are "competent" by Xvim standards? Because that's who trained Zorian in teleport warding.

>>>>>>> **u/Cuz_Im_TFK** [+5]  (5 days later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I just did a literal spit-take when I read "Silverware". Thanks for that. :P

>>>>>>>> **u/MacDancer** [+1]  (5 days later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ...whoops... :D

>>> **u/None** [+9]  (4 hours later)
>>> 
>>> [deleted]

>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+3]  *Carbon-based biped* (4 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> > even if they do try to peg it as it comes out the cave entrance.
>>>> 
>>>> Why wait that long? Just put it on a magical platform, lower it into the gully, and fire into the hole. Based on the trap simulacrum's experience, it'll sense them coming, but they should still have a moment of time to fire before it emerges.
>>>> 
>>>> Myself, I'm curious about what kind of ammunition they plan to load up that will be suitably devastating to the spider without damaging the eggs.

>>>>> **u/I_Hump_Rainbowz** [+12]  (6 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Armor piercing could work. It would not explode outwards as much and would sufficiently kill a giant armored spider.

>>>>>> **u/hobodemon** [+1]  (15 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I dont think they use a lot of man-portable firearms in universe against holmes, they'd be using cannons and magic rather than anti-material rifles.  
>>>>>> That said, the ideal ammunition would be something like the Lehigh Defense extreme penetrator. Start with a bullet shaped bullet, monolithic hardened copper or brass, cut four scalloped bits off the tip, chop the nose flat. Ends up looking like you broke a Phillips head screwdriver. Tissue and viscera is directed outward by the scallops, cutting through other soft tissue like a diesel powered pressure washer. The exoskeleton contains the damage. And because it does not rely on expansion to create its expanded wound tract, penetration remains deep. Probably will exit the arachnid.

>>> **u/thrawnca** [+3]  *Carbon-based biped* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> > I'm curious what her response is going to be when they actually show up with Grey Hunter eggs.
>>> 
>>> Probably she'll demand explanations and they'll tell her about the loop. Zorian already tried it, but she wasn't interested in talking until he brought her the eggs.

> **u/Fredlage** [+33]  (an hour later)
> 
> Little over 2 and a half years left... The end is nigh... I'll miss this story.
> Good to see they're still improving.

>> **u/throwawayIWGWPC** [+25]  (an hour later)
>> 
>> Haha yes. And if you count the black rooms, they still have 5 years left. Or did they have access to one or two additional black rooms? Which means they still have 7.5--10 years.

>>> **u/thrawnca** [+19]  *Carbon-based biped* (3 hours later)
>>> 
>>> They have access to more black rooms, but much less efficient ones. One stretches a day into 13 days, the other into 5, IIRC. Useful, but much less. Also less psychologically hazardous.

>>>> **u/dbenc** [+13]  (6 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Well it was implied they might reverse engineer the black room tech and apply it to the pocket dimension, so who knows how long subjectively they might have left.

>>>>> **u/literal-hitler** [+4]  (9 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finally, a use for my ridiculous mana reserves.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Zach

>> **u/None** [+4]  (2 hours later)
>> 
>> [deleted]

>>> **u/throwawayIWGWPC** [+9]  (3 hours later)
>>> 
>>> well, in this chapter, they spent nine of those restarts, so they're now have 33 remaining.

>>>> **u/None** [+7]  (7 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Isn't it 9 restarts since they found out where the orb was located?

>>>>> **u/throwawayIWGWPC** [+3]  (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ah, that's true.
>>>>> 
>>>>> > Nine restarts had passed since the restart in which Zach and Zorian had found where the orb of the first emperor was located. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> They found the orb, which was seven or so chapters. Since then, nine restarts have passed. The first of those restarts began this chapter and there were 42 restarts remaining, then eight more, so 34, not 33.

>> **u/monkyyy0** [+3]  (15 hours later)
>> 
>> They still need to kill red robe post breakout, presumably he is able to kill qi, break into a royal treasury, and teleport across continents. Expect a several year war after the time loop

>>> **u/ENTERTAIN_ME_DAMNIT** [+4]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> But Red Robe didn't need the key to get out - he just left, which is why Z+Z are stuck in this situation.  
>>> 
>>> I seem to recall Zach saying that RR isn't much without the litch backing him up, so I would be very surprised if RR can stand up to Z+Z on his (?) own.  
>>> 
>>> That said, RR won't be on their own. They'll have an army behind them, this time with summoned demons. I can only imagine that there will be quite a lot of combat once they break out of the loop.

>>>> **u/GeraldVanHeer** [+2]  (12 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> I think that's something everyone's discounting. The Ibasans aren't just going to have undead, QI, controlled monsters, and war trolls...
>>>> 
>>>> They're gonna have demons.
>>>> 
>>>> *Lots* of demons.
>>>> 
>>>> And neither Zach nor Zorian know a whole lot about how to deal with those.

>>>>> **u/ENTERTAIN_ME_DAMNIT** [+3]  (12 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alanic does. At least, I think he does.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> The problem I see there is that Zorian might have straight-up forgot about the demons.  
>>>>> As I recall, they've only been mentioned once - and no one has sought advice on how to combat them.

>>>>>> **u/GeraldVanHeer** [+2]  (12 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I assume Alanic knows a fair bit, but I think both of them have largely forgotten an entire third of the invasion will be based in demons.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> With the artillery barrage, regardless of red robe's support, aiming for the churches and temples.

>>>> **u/literal-hitler** [+1]  (9 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> Or he did get the key for a loop in order to get out, or at least to start looping himself. One of the keys might help get the rest or something.

>>> **u/Fredlage** [+1]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> I doubt there'll be more than 3-5 chapters post loop

> **u/thrawnca** [+59]  *Carbon-based biped* (17 minutes later)
> 
> Grey Hunter going DOWN! :D

>> **u/Florac** [+32]  (an hour later)
>> 
>> It's been like what, 40 chapters since it was first introduced? IIRC at the beginning of arc 2 or something.

>>> **u/aeschenkarnos** [+31]  (an hour later)
>>> 
>>> Chekhov's gun, with dust and cobwebs.

>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+28]  *Carbon-based biped* (6 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Nah, it hasn't been ignored since then. Zorian speculated about Zach being able to fight it in chapter 56, they took a solid swing at it in chapter 63, and they were using it to make potions of mana perception in chapter 65.

>>>>> **u/aeschenkarnos** [+21]  (6 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Quite right - they beat it, just haven't successfully taken its eggs.

>>>> **u/ivory12** [+16]  (3 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Terrifying house sized cobwebs.

>>>>> **u/vorpal_potato** [+11]  (7 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> And they only now got around to building the gun.

>>>> **u/petrichorE6** [+7]  (5 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Chekov's Canon*

>>>> **u/Cuz_Im_TFK** [+2]  (5 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> I think the magic gun he's working on is the *real* Chekhov's gun here. He came up with the idea for that waaaaay back during the very first time he left Cyoria and it hasn't been brought up again since. I was REALLY satisfied when that came full-circle. :)

> **u/OutOfNiceUsernames** [+25]  *fear of last pages* (11 hours later)
> 
> Ok, scenes in this chapter (of 7,600 words) were:
> 
> > 1\. capturing the orb by themselves (1,304 words \ 17%)
> 
> > 2\. chasing off the hydra, some speculations, and some banter (1,422 \ 18%)
> 
> > 3\. getting one new infobit from the Guardian, tying up two “loose ends” that I remember being discussed here (spamming  of the Guardian with questions, and bringing the Orb inside a Black room) (2,453 \ 32%)
> 
> > 4\. the public’s eye on Kael and on Imaya's house (457 \ 6%)
> 
> > 5\. meeting with a fire elemental (638 \ 8%)
> 
> > 6\. the House Letova heist (582 \ 7%)
> 
> > 7\. fast-forward sequence for nine restarts (804 \ 10%)
> 
> I feel like #4, #5, #6 were too interesting to get so little screentime. To me, they felt rushed in the manner that the later chapters of [*The Games We Play*](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanfic/RyuugisTheGamesWePlay) have felt rushed. 
> 
> How would you go about fixing that if you wanted to make them bigger, though? Move them to the next chapter to allocate them more space? Make #2 and #3 the shorter scenes? Something else?
> 
> ---
> 
> >on the usage of portable canons against the spider
> 
> Are they supposed to be used as tools of area-denial and shepherding the spider in the wanted direction? Because if they directly hit her from those rifles, the eggs won’t be likely to survive.

>> **u/thrawnca** [+7]  *Carbon-based biped* (23 hours later)
>> 
>> I expect that we will see the results of those various endeavors in coming chapters. Pretty typical pattern.
>> 
>> And I just started reading The Games We Play a few days ago...I'll have to see if I feel the same way about it.
>> 
>> I'm rather curious about what kind of payload will be in the cannon. Regular bullets would be problematic, indeed, although it's likely that at least a few eggs would survive. OTOH, a sufficiently potent magical warhead might work well, especially if they can get a shot off while it's still in its lair.

>> **u/throwawayIWGWPC** [+2]  (a day later)
>> 
>> I agree: I wish there had been significantly more time spent on all of these scenes. Unfortunately, this book is full of situations that were summarized. This, imo, is a major shortcoming of the book. I feel these instances are usually done for the sake of pacing and lack of time for the author, so I can sympathize. It would be great if the book gets published and these scenes all get fully fleshed out.

>>> **u/thrawnca** [+6]  *Carbon-based biped* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> :D Publication would more likely be a *barrier* to fleshing things out. Publishers don't want to use extra paper on each copy. They likely wouldn't even touch MoL, as a debut work, without drastically shortening it.
>>> 
>>> I think the time-skips are OK. Sometimes there just isn't enough new stuff happening to warrant detailed description.

>>>> **u/Cheese_Ninja** [+2]  (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> I've always felt that each arc of MoL lends itself fairly well to being its own book, such that a published version would be a trilogy. There would be plenty of opportunity to flesh things out, but in this case, I feel like this timeskip would still be useful. There's just too much minutiae that could be seen as distracting from the overall story. Their actual goals are much more limited than their eventual skillsets would indicate: 
>>>> 
>>>> 1. Leave the loop.
>>>> 
>>>> 2. Neutralize RR.
>>>> 
>>>> 3. Prevent the Ibasen attack.
>>>> 3a.Neutralize the necromancer mayor.
>>>> 3b.Neutralize the Dragon Cultists in and around Cyoria.
>>>> 
>>>> Everything else is just a bonus they were forced to acquire to achieve their goals.

>>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+5]  *Carbon-based biped* (2 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sure, MoL could become a trilogy. Unfortunately, as I understand it, the rule of thumb is that publishers won't touch a debut novel over about 100k words, tops - and each arc is double that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There might be more flexibility with ebooks, I'm not sure.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'd love to see it published, but I'd be sad to see it cut down by 50% to fit.

> **u/CaptainMcSmash** [+19]  (9 hours later)
> 
> Aw I was disappointed by no detail on the House Letova heist, I really, really enjoy the heist scenes in the story.

>> **u/DerSaidin** [+3]  (13 hours later)
>> 
>> Me too.

>> **u/Ardvarkeating101** [+3]  *Father of Learning* (a day later)
>> 
>> Me too.

>> **u/MoralRelativity** [+2]  (10 hours later)
>> 
>> Me too.

> **u/throwawayIWGWPC** [+19]  (6 minutes later)
> 
> Remember to vote for Mother of Learning on  [TopWebFiction](http://topwebfiction.com/vote.php?for=mother-of-learning)! No sign-up required!

>> **u/DTravers** [+3]  (11 hours later)
>> 
>> They don't accept FictionPress stories.

>>> **u/spanj** [+16]  (13 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Regardless of the policy, it's still on the site.

>>> **u/throwawayIWGWPC** [+2]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> It's been on the site for a few months now and as of the last chapter or so, MoL has a banner. I think it's there to stay.

> **u/clawclawbite** [+15]  (25 minutes later)
> 
> Superior magical rifle for spider hunting?!? It is about time!

>> **u/None** [+8]  (an hour later)
>> 
>> [deleted]

>>> **u/clawclawbite** [+3]  (2 hours later)
>>> 
>>> I just hope the pay-off is proportionate to the screen time spent leading up to it.

>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+20]  *Carbon-based biped* (3 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Silverlake is almost certainly a master of dimensionalism, significantly surpassing even Xvim (who doesn't know much about pocket dimensions), and IMO is very likely to be one of the Immortal Eleven. Both of which are a big deal for ZZ.

>>>>> **u/I_Hump_Rainbowz** [+8]  (6 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Immortal Eleven? Who is that? Are they gods?

>>>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+10]  *Carbon-based biped* (23 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Short version: 11 mages who brewed and drank a potion of agelessness. They can be killed (Oganj killed two), but won't die of natural causes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I strongly suspect Silverlake is one of them. 90 years old but looks half of that: no white hairs, no missing teeth, no trembling or weakness in her hands when butchering the salamander. Advanced magical knowledge, apparently including pocket dimensions, which even Xvim doesn't know much about, but especially with *potions*. Doesn't give out her last name. If the Eleven will be part of the story at all, she's hands-down the best candidate.

>>>>>> **u/vorpal_potato** [+5]  (7 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [Some interesting speculation here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/5tovbf/rthfmother_of_learning_chapter_65_dangerous_ground/ddpi981/).

>>>> **u/None** [+12]  (2 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> [deleted]

> **u/CeruleanTresses** [+28]  (3 hours later)
> 
> I was really enjoying the Kilnfather segment--it stood out from the rest of the chapter. It had an unusual vibrancy. I wish it hadn't been cut off so quickly. I would have enjoyed more exploration of Kilnfather's character.

>> **u/Cheese_Ninja** [+24]  (8 hours later)
>> 
>> I had speculated in the past that Veyers transformation into Red Robe involved possession or merging by some sort of ancient fire elemental that was actually old enough to remember the Sovereign Gate. Or at the very least that his bloodline awakening ritual was flawed in some way to open him up malicious influences.
>> 
>> Ways the fire Elemental Salamander Kilnfather thing would relate to Veyers' bloodline awakening ritual:
>> 
>> *Yellow, slitted eyes
>> 
>> *Fire magic
>> 
>> *Elemental spirit infused into living beings
>> 
>> *Hostile tendencies
>> 
>> I'm still assuming he's RR, because of Zach's memory wipe and the timing and thoroughness of his disappearance. But there are still a ton of unknowns.

>>> **u/None** [+3]  (11 hours later)
>>> 
>>> [deleted]

>>>> **u/Icecold1039** [+12]  (11 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> No, Veyers has not been confirmed as RR.

>> **u/throwawayIWGWPC** [+2]  (a day later)
>> 
>> I agree: I wish there were more to this piece of it.

>>> **u/Cuz_Im_TFK** [+1]  (5 days later)
>>> 
>>> Would have been repetitive though since they already did an in-depth meeting with Stonechild(?) the earth elemental.

> **u/Laser68** [+10]  (22 minutes later)
> 
> 9 loops......that is a lot of time used up.

>> **u/thrawnca** [+14]  *Carbon-based biped* (24 minutes later)
>> 
>> Well, the previous iteration stretched to 7 chapters, so...compensating?

>>> **u/Laser68** [+15]  (25 minutes later)
>>> 
>>> It makes sense, 42 detailed loops would take forever, but it also is sorta good for pacing cause its like time flies.

>> **u/Xtraordinaire** [+9]  *Team Glimglam* (33 minutes later)
>> 
>> I'm more than okay with things speeding up inside the loop. Withou the enemy looper things are a bit static.

>> **u/Cheese_Ninja** [+2]  (8 hours later)
>> 
>> About 1.75-1.85 years, if they managed to use all 3 of the Black Rooms for an extra 45 days each loop. I've got to wonder if Zorian is going to hit his peak mana capacity soon. 
>> 
>> I'm not sure how much Zach's skills are improving, but Zorian seems to have made considerable progress over that skip. And they're even richer now? If they don't blow all their money on anti-Ibasen invasion measures and paying back people who helped them upon leaving the loop, I think they're set for life.
>> 
>> I feel like once they leave the loop and figure out RR, RR isn't going to be much of a match, even if Zorian doesn't get the doubled mana capacity upon leaving the loop that Zach has currently.

>>> **u/JusticeBeak** [+1]  (23 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Wait, why would Zorian get the doubled mana capacity once the loop was over? I think I missed something.

>>>> **u/Cheese_Ninja** [+3]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> Like the others were saying, it's basically just a pet theory of mine based off Zach's comment that he's seeming a base magnitude 50 with the shaping skills of base magnitude 25.
>>>> 
>>>> They never came up with a viable reason for it, beyond wondering if it's a super-rare Noveda trait. Bloodlines in general don't work that way though, since they decrease initial reserves by tying up a portion of mana into a permanent magical ability.

>>>> **u/ENTERTAIN_ME_DAMNIT** [+2]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> AFAIK, there's a theory that the time-loop soul copy thing merges with the original soul upon leaving the time loop, resulting in doubled mana capacity.  
>>>> I don't personally believe it, but it is worth considering.

>>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+3]  *Carbon-based biped* (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't consider it plausible.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The only thing we've really been told about merging two souls is that "the resulting entity is virtually always rendered insane or otherwise defective from the stress of the merger". "But!" you say, "if it's two copies of the same soul, then there should be no stress and no insanity!" Well, either the resulting soul will be different to the two inputs, or it won't. If it is different, then we can expect insanity etc. If it's not different, then why would it have doubled mana capacity?
>>>>> 
>>>>> And the tradeoff between capacity and control [extends to all souls](https://motheroflearninguniverse.wordpress.com/2016/07/02/sapient-species-of-the-world/#comment-196). Even if you could somehow double your mana capacity without altering any other aspect of your soul (highly unlikely IMO), it would not be free; you would lose a great deal of control, just as if you had a larger mana pool to start with.

>>>>>> **u/Cheese_Ninja** [+5]  (2 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The tradeoff between capacity and control has one exception that's been pointed out in the story in chapter 62:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> >"Ha. Well, it's not just that," Zach said. "The fact I was able to keep up with the academy curriculum at all, even before the time loop, pretty much shuts down the theory I'm just lucky. I'm magnitude 50 in terms of mana reserves, but I can shape my mana as if I was magnitude 25 at most. That's too… convenient to be natural."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Edit: I think it's fair to say that Zach never got a good measure of his mana capacity before entering the loop, because Zorian didn't either, and Zorian was seemingly a much better student.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've read most? of the same posts as you, so I can see where you're coming from that even if two of the "same" soul were merged, there's no guarantee that it would be problem free. But Zach and Zorian have the Marker built into their very soul, and that thing has a relative Swiss Army Knife amount of functions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My view is this: the Guardian of the Threshold grabs the soul with the Marker from outside the loop, places it in the body inside the loop, the Marker combines the two souls and from that point on directs the loop to no longer create copies of that soul. Then when the loop ends, the Guardian will collect the soul from inside the loop and place it back in the body it was taken from. What I'm expecting is that when Zorian's soul from inside the loop is placed into his real world body, his (hopefully not too defective) Marker will then do the soul combining that Zach gained upon entering the loop. This will probably suck for Zorian, since his soul has diverged considerably from what it was before it entered the loop, but it shouldn't be fatal, because plot armor. Just weakness and a really bad headache for a little while, like with normal soul damage.

>>>>> **u/throwawayIWGWPC** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's possible, but I don't believe it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> How intense, though, would Zorian be with that much mana? His shaping skills would make the big blast spells pretty cool.

>>>>> **u/windg0d** [+1]  (5 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Somewhat unrelated tangent but I personally I think Zach's insane mana reserves are actually a result of the loop giving him a "handicap". Like once he gets out of the loop he'll have normal mana levels and will be vastly nerfed because of it.

> **u/thrawnca** [+10]  *Carbon-based biped* (28 minutes later)
> 
> If Controller powers really are tied to the Key pieces, then that means Red Robe had one.
> 
> Of course, we only saw that near the end of an iteration, and it was an iteration where he had an idea that there were other loopers, so it's not surprising that he would have collected a suitable weapon. What would be more interesting is his confrontation with Zorian at the very beginning of the next iteration, before he had time to assault the treasury or visit another continent (and he certainly didn't fight QI). Unfortunately, the fact that he didn't use purple beams there doesn't tell us much, since he wanted information, so he likely wouldn't have used them on Zorian whether he could or not.

>> **u/Xtraordinaire** [+7]  *Team Glimglam* (36 minutes later)
>> 
>> I kinda forgot, what key was in the royal treasury? Was it the knife? If so, that would hint at Red Robe's very high status in noble hierarchy.

>>> **u/thrawnca** [+10]  *Carbon-based biped* (38 minutes later)
>>> 
>>> It was the dagger, yes; Zorian came close enough to confirm that. Whether the dagger controls the loop ejection power is speculative, though.

> **u/RMcD94** [+15]  (an hour later)
> 
> Not sure how to particularly pinpoint it but I feel like the writing quality this episode was not up to the usual superb par I have come to expect of this series.

>> **u/aeschenkarnos** [+6]  (an hour later)
>> 
>> It's the grammar. Normally he does a couple of proofreading passes to tighten it up, however I expect he didn't get time for this chapter.

>>> **u/throwawayIWGWPC** [+3]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> It's also probably how many juicy scenes were cut short---Kael's mishap, the talk with the elemental, etc.

>> **u/I_Hump_Rainbowz** [+3]  (6 hours later)
>> 
>> I liked the fast paced nature of it. I missed that after the long time in that one loop.

> **u/vallar57** [+7]  *Unseen University: Faculty of High-Energy Magic* (5 days later)
> 
> This is something I just realized regarding this chapter.
> 
> In the chapter 51, Zorian tells a story to Kiri:
> 
> >...the Scorpion Swordsmen had just led Sumrak to the supposed secret area where the **Orb of Memory** rested on a pedestal, beneath the Holy Stalactite, when suddenly...
> 
> Nobody103 is the king of foreshadowings XD

> **u/Fomalhaut-b** [+6]  (9 hours later)
> 
> I've been so hungry for this chapter to arrive.
> 
> * how did the Chameleon drakes get the God Touched Hydra to materialise out of the orb? They don't have a handy soul marker. This is the third instance of a group being able to activate a special gateway. The first being the Silent Gateway adepts activating the Bakora gates, the next was the red robed fanatics whom were releasing the Primorial with their chanting. Here it is a group of lizards and a pocket dimension. 
> 
> * What does this tell us about the nature of this mechanic? Next question is, does this help Z&Z in any way? 
> 
> * nice to see a return of the magical rifle
> 
> * Lots of good info about portable dimensions. 
> 
> * Zorian using soul magic as a means to telepathically communicate with his simulacrum. You guys predicted it!
> 
> * The Grey Hunter. How does a magical canon *not* destroy the babies on her belly. So what's the plan, Zorian? Now I can't wait for the *next* chapter.
> 
> * Next up: Silverlake, and back to Pocket Dimensions. This is why I enjoy this story do much!

>> **u/HPMOR_fan** [+5]  (9 hours later)
>> 
>> > how did the Chameleon drakes get the God Touched Hydra to materialise out of the orb? They don't have a handy soul marker.
>> 
>> It should be the hydra which has the power to jump in and out of the orb. Maybe the hydra was even created at the same time as the orb as it's guardian. The only thing the drakes did was make a lot of noise to call the hydra out.

>>> **u/Fomalhaut-b** [+4]  (9 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Thanks! That makes so much more sense. Especially since Z&Z were concerned that the Hydra would pop out of the orb at any time.

>> **u/spanj** [+2]  (13 hours later)
>> 
>> That depends on if the projectile is explosive or not. A non explosive projectile should only pulverize within a reasonable range of the projectile's diameter. So shoot it's head or upper body.

>> **u/SevereCircle** [+1]  (14 days later)
>> 
>> Maybe I'm naive but I just assumed they literally called for the hydra with noise and sounds and loudness and it can hear things outside the orb.

>>> **u/Fomalhaut-b** [+1]  (15 days later)
>>> 
>>> That's probably more reasonable :)

> **u/DTravers** [+8]  (11 hours later)
> 
> >"It is," Zorian agreed. "And maybe there really was such a place inside the orb, once. But teleport platforms and recall stones don't last all that long without regular maintenance. Not for centuries, at least. And there is a chance that something inside actively broke the mechanism. Say, **a giant rampaging hydra**…"
> 
> >"I didn't think of that," Zach scowled, reclaiming the orb again. "We just don't–"
> 
> >When Zach deployed the orb the fourth time, there was a much louder whooshing sound than usual and the two of them suddenly found themselves standing next to **a gigantic pissed-off hydra**. It immediately pounced on them with an unearthly roar.
> 
> I am very disappointed that these descriptions aren't the same.

>> **u/thrawnca** [+4]  *Carbon-based biped* (23 hours later)
>> 
>> They aren't the same circumstances. "Rampaging" would just be the hydra doing its thing as usual, whereas in this case, if we assume that the hydra was aware of the repeated deployments - like someone repeatedly opening and closing your front door - it was specifically irritated.
>> 
>> Don't know how it was able to leave the orb, though. Probably related to the fact that it can teleport.

>>> **u/HPMOR_fan** [+1]  (4 days later)
>>> 
>>> Also the hydra can't rampage against Zach. Rampaging implies it's unstoppable.

>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+2]  *Carbon-based biped* (7 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> > Rampaging implies it's unstoppable
>>>> 
>>>> Nope:
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.dictionary.com/browse/rampage
>>>> 
>>>> > noun
>>>> 
>>>> > 1.
>>>> 
>>>> > violent or excited behavior that is reckless, uncontrolled, or destructive.
>>>> 
>>>> > 2.
>>>> 
>>>> > a state of violent anger or agitation:
>>>> 
>>>> > *The smallest mistake sends him into a rampage. The river has gone on a rampage and flooded the countryside.*
>>>> 
>>>> > verb (used without object), rampaged, rampaging.
>>>> 
>>>> > 3.
>>>> 
>>>> > to rush, move, or act furiously or violently:
>>>> 
>>>> > *a bull elephant rampaging through the jungle.*
>>>> 
>>>> Nothing in there implies "unstoppable". Lack of *self*-control, sure.

>>>>> **u/HPMOR_fan** [+1]  (7 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Okay, thanks.

>> **u/Mr-Mister** [+3]  (16 hours later)
>> 
>> One is more Zorianesque, the other is more Zachian, I feel.

> **u/gvsmirnov** [+5]  (18 hours later)
> 
> [Chapter 39](https://www.fictionpress.com/s/2961893/39/Mother-of-Learning):
> 
> > "It's a trick that some alteration experts use if they want to be able to **create complex objects without carrying the originals with them**. They use a spell to record the blueprint of an object, **storing it inside their heads**, then simply use that blueprint to **create copies of the object whenever it strikes their fancy**. Well, provided they have the correct raw materials. In your case, that would be a blank book of similar dimensions to what you're trying to copy and a bottle of ink."
> 
> Zorian gave up this method of storing information after learning the more efficient memory packaging technique. But combining this with the Orb's vast storage capacity seems to allow for munchkining lots of stuff across restarts?
> 
> I could not find any indication of whether or not the objects can be magical. But taking the word "blueprint" optimistically, we can expect that with good shaping abilities and enough crystalized mana, it should be possible to instantiate various magical objects in arbitrary numbers. On the other hand, Zorian does not seem to be using this method (at least, explicitly) for creating things, so maybe it only works for mundane stuff.

>> **u/thrawnca** [+2]  *Carbon-based biped* (23 hours later)
>> 
>> You may have a good point there. Zorian has focused on using his headspace efficiently, so he has just stored blueprints for notebooks, and later just for the ink on them. But with practically unlimited space, yeah, he should be able to store blueprints for instantly fabricating golems, or his prototype magic cannon.
>> 
>> You're probably right about magic items needing more work, though. You can't craft a spell formula without being able to actually cast the spell. In light of the latest world building post, I'd say that the mage has to direct mana into the formula in much the same way as directing mana into the elements of a regular spell.
>> 
>> So he could likely fabricate golem bodies en masse, but he'd have to individually craft the animation cores, which was always the hardest job.

>>> **u/melmonella** [+1]  *Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you* (2 days later)
>>> 
>>> Doesn't he store blueprints for his golems already? He has to transfer them somehow, right?

>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+2]  *Carbon-based biped* (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> He stores actual paper blueprints, yes. But theoretically, the spell would allow him to store and recreate the finished golem, given the raw materials.

> **u/asdkant** [+6]  (20 hours later)
> 
> I'm pretty sure nobody here needs it, but for any new readers out there I've updated by ebook builds up to chapter 73: https://github.com/asdkant/bookify-mol/releases

>> **u/Ardvarkeating101** [+1]  *Father of Learning* (a day later)
>> 
>> Thank you!

>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (13 days later)
>> 
>> Thanks, but I have my own eBook version, so I can rewrite the occasional swearing. Substituting the exact words while preserving the tone is an interesting challenge :).

>>> **u/asdkant** [+1]  (16 days later)
>>> 
>>> Note that what I release was mostly automated, I didn't manually edit anything - the only manual part was getting the .html through calibre to create azw and epub files

>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (17 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> I use Calibre too! :) But first I fix typos and substitute language, tracking changes with Git.

> **u/None** [+3]  (20 hours later)
> 
> [deleted]

>> **u/JusticeBeak** [+5]  (23 hours later)
>> 
>> Yeah, but they put way more points into Wisdom and Intelligence than they did in Charisma.

> **u/destravous** [+3]  (2 days later)
> 
> someone posted a link to this story on r/hfy 
> 
> after finally getting through it all...wow, that was good, can't wait for the next chapter.
> 
> Are there any other hidden gems like this I have been missing out on?

>> **u/Ardvarkeating101** [+4]  *Father of Learning* (3 days later)
>> 
>> Well, [there's the recommendation thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/wiki), but personally, I'd recommend Worm

>>> **u/thrawnca** [+3]  *Carbon-based biped* (7 days later)
>>> 
>>> Eh, Worm has had a lot of effort put in and it shows, but it's extremely long, and dark/gritty enough that it ended up being too much of a slog for me. I gave up at...probably about halfway?
>>> 
>>> If you want a superhero story, I like [Doc Future](http://docfuture.tumblr.com/post/82363551272/fall-of-doc-future-contents) better, though book 3 is still in-progress.

>> **u/HPMOR_fan** [+1]  (4 days later)
>> 
>> I second the list on the wiki. Personally I liked HPMOR, Luminosity, A Bluer Shade of White, and Friendship is Optimal the most. Worm and Pact were unnecessarily long for me.

>>> **u/destravous** [+2]  (4 days later)
>>> 
>>> Regarding luminosity, does it stand on its own, or would I have to read twilight first?

>>>> **u/HPMOR_fan** [+2]  (5 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> I have never read Twilight but I had seen the movies. It was fine for me. I think it would be fine without knowing anything about Twilight though. It's a retelling of the story and still from Bella's perspective (second book from a different character) so the characters are all introduced as they come in. There is no assumed knowledge.

>>>> **u/HPMOR_fan** [+1]  (5 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> Oh, and the story starts with the world in basically the same state, aside from Bella, but it quickly takes a very different turn. The plot gets unrecognizable very quickly. It's not just going through the same story but with snarky comments from a rational Bella.

>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (7 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> Being fanfiction, you'll obviously get more out of it if you've read the original. However, if you don't want to, I don't think Luminosity assumes much knowledge; it diverges early enough and substantially enough that it has to do its own character- and world-building.
>>>> 
>>>> If you're going to read it, though, you should be prepared to also read Radiance, which is noticeably longer but pretty much necessary to the plot ([unless](#s " you like downer endings").

> **u/thrawnca** [+4]  *Carbon-based biped* (5 hours later)
> 
> Typos:
> 
> these will be no match/they will be no match
> 
> decided they can't/decided they couldn't
> 
> out of hydra's reach/out of the hydra's reach
> 
> that Silent Doorway Adepts/that the Silent Doorway Adepts
> 
> with Silent Doorway Adepts/with the Silent Doorway Adepts
> 
> a rough humanoid entity/a roughly humanoid entity
> 
> now that they've gotten/now that they'd gotten
> 
> didn't ask him about/didn't ask it about
> 
> until time loop/until the time loop
> 
> unless you chose to delete/unless you choose to delete
> 
> everything they need/everything they needed
> 
> the aid of right/the aid of the right
> 
> loved his creation/loved his creations
> 
> forcing it to step/forcing it to stop
> 
> the short pause in the battle/a short pause in the battle

>> **u/tokol** [+1]  *The Greater Good* (2 days later)
>> 
>> > Defeating the hydra took longer than it had the last time they thought
>> 
>> thought -> fought

> **u/Banarok** [+4]  *Ankh-Morpork City Watch* (an hour later)
> 
> i got to say i found this chapter unusually boring, think it might be because there was almost no dialogue in the entire chapter so it just felt like an extensive monologue.
> 
> new knowledge are the relic powers. and that is nice.
> 
> found it odd that they'd spend time building houses, i mean even as a mage, just magic-ing up a house should be really costly mana wise so i can't really see Zorian building anything that way.
> 
> i hope the next chapter carry a bit more umph.

>> **u/throwawayIWGWPC** [+12]  (3 hours later)
>> 
>> I thought it was hilarious. ymmv

>> **u/thefreegod** [+10]  (an hour later)
>> 
>> The house building was mostly to have fun I think.  They have to do that every now and then.

>> **u/18scsc** [+4]  (16 hours later)
>> 
>> It reminded me or my days playing Minecraft. Blocky houses built in the wilderness that no one will ever find again.

>>> **u/Banarok** [+1]  *Ankh-Morpork City Watch* (16 hours later)
>>> 
>>> yes but what bothered me is that building houses are not a 5 minute endevour, even with magic it should take a considerable amount of time especially if you want to make them look good. building one i could easily buy since that's probably half a day "wasted" but if it's something you have fun doing time flies and they need breaks too but building so many feels iffy.

> **u/dinoseen** [+1]  (2 months later)
> 
> Could somebody please give me a tldr up to before this point? It's been ages since I've read this.

> **u/vallar57** [+0]  *Unseen University: Faculty of High-Energy Magic* (4 days later)
> 
> This was one of the funnies chapter in the series. I never stopped laughing while reading it XD

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