scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/7belut.md

## Ask Rddit Xpost: You are teleported back to the same spot as now, but in the early 1800. You keep all stuff on you, all your knowledge and a phone with modern internet access and unlimited battery. How do you proceed?

* Author: u/wren42 *
* URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/7bcwo6/you_are_teleported_back_to_the_same_spot_as_now/
* Score: 28

* Created: 2017-11-07T17:14:30

### Post:

[Link to content](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/7bcwo6/you_are_teleported_back_to_the_same_spot_as_now/)

### Comments:

> **u/quigley007** [+51]  (32 minutes later)
> 
> As I am on the 16th floor, I would plummet to my death.

> **u/eternal-potato** [+30]  *he who vegetates* (53 minutes later)
> 
> Unlike many who will fall to their death, I will instead suffocate while entombed underground.

>> **u/None** [+15]  (6 hours later)
>> 
>> [deleted]

>>> **u/Trips-Over-Tail** [+14]  *Death of Crabs* (10 hours later)
>>> 
>>> All locations in space are defined relative to a specified point. I would assume from context that that point is intended to be locked to the Earth.

> **u/zeldn** [+30]  (5 hours later)
> 
> I make a Reddit thread asking people smarter than myself for ideas.

> **u/wren42** [+11]  (37 seconds later)
> 
> off the top of my head:
> 
> google maps. Can provide extremely valuable accurate cartography to settlers, engineers, and military.  Lewis and Clark should have a much easier time.  Gold deposits can be predicted and discretely mined prior to the rush. 
> 
> How it's made wikis. kick off industrial revolution early a la Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court.  major advances in mathematics and medicine are easy short term gains that can build notoriety and credibility. 
> 
> Unlimited battery means I could set up a system to pull power out of the phone and provide free energy for my [magical floating super city.](http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Columbia)
> 
> oh, and if I live that long, once he's born invite Nikola Tesla to come live in my techno-paradise and rule the world with his mad science schemes.

>> **u/ben_oni** [+12]  (13 minutes later)
>> 
>> > Unlimited battery means I could set up a system to pull power out of the phone and provide free energy for my magical floating super city.
>> 
>> On the other hand, you probably only get a few amps at no more than 24 volts, and try as you might, you can't get any more. Yes it's free, but you could get more with a pedal powered generator.
>> 
>> Also, why is your goal automatically uplift?

>>> **u/wren42** [+7]  (20 minutes later)
>>> 
>>> >On the other hand, you probably only get a few amps at no more than 24 volts, and try as you might, you can't get any more. Yes it's free, but you could get more with a pedal powered generator.
>>> 
>>> it's true, the Columbia thing was a joke ;) though you might be able to bootstrap some other higher output systems if you are patient.  
>>> 
>>> >Also, why is your goal automatically uplift?
>>> 
>>> why not? I'm a futurist.  I believe if we can jump start the race for strong AI and I can set humanist foundations for it by counteracting the puritan regression and anti-intellectualism that took hold around that time, we'd be seeing a post-scarcity world much sooner. 
>>> 
>>> Even from a purely selfish standpoint, the above would help put me in a position of relative power and luxury.

>>>> **u/ben_oni** [+12]  (59 minutes later)
>>>> 
>>>> > by counteracting the puritan regression and anti-intellectualism that took hold around that time
>>>> 
>>>> ... you might want to study history.
>>>> 
>>>> > we'd be seeing a post-scarcity world much sooner.
>>>> 
>>>> If you want to jumpstart the AI revolution, your best bet will be to cross your fingers and hope you aren't in a separate timeline. Using your internet access, set up a communication loop with the future, and use the loop to brute force solutions to difficult problems. Like the FAI one. Eventually you'll want to solve the time-travel problem, too, and then you're laughing.
>>>> 
>>>> Without time-travel hacks, you'll be able to uplift to early-mid 21st century technology, at best. In this case, your best bet will be to figure out how the phone is communicating with the internet: it's either technological or magical, and either one means hacks.
>>>> 
>>>> And to be fair, figuring out how the unlimited battery works could also mean hacks.

>>>>> **u/SignoreGalilei** [+5]  (an hour later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> How unlimited is this battery? Like if I destroy it does the phone grow a new one? If it shorts out galaxy note-style do you get an eternal flame? Those could get you some decent entry level entropy hacks.

>>>>> **u/crivtox** [+3]  *Closed Time Loop Enthusiast* (2 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Using  time loops to brute force dificult things is dangerous ,you are basically creating an outcome pump that searches a future where you stopped the loop, and usually "do not mess with time "stile solutions are easier to find than how to solve ai safety,  for example you die before starting the time loop, or you become convinced that you solved fai without actualy doing it.

>>>>>> **u/ben_oni** [+1]  (8 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes... I am aware of the difficulties. The large solution space is why paradoxes in closed time-like loops are (probably) guaranteed to be impossible. Nevertheless, I suspect it would be fairly easy to implement solutions for difficult-to-solve/easy-to-prove style problems. Perhaps AI doesn't fall into this category, but as you leverage the loop to solve successively more difficult problems, you may end up in a slow-takeoff scenario. I still think it's the best bet if you want to beat current technology.

>>>>> **u/wren42** [+5]  (an hour later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> >by counteracting the puritan regression and anti-intellectualism that took hold around that time  
>>>>> >... you might want to study history.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm referring to the second Great Awakening and Restoration in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity_in_the_United_States#19th_century) that undid a lot of the skeptical and rational culture changes that were underway across europe and the colonies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment).  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jefferson and other intellectuals of the time were Deists, for instance, and there was a broad support for science and rationality around the turn of the century that was slowly pushed back by growing anti-intellectual Christian movements.   However, care would need to be taken that the Abolitionist origins in many faith circles weren't snuffed out along with the evangelicism.

> **u/ben_oni** [+10]  (20 minutes later)
> 
> The first task is to figure out how this internet access from the 19th century works. See if I can communicate with the future. Can I make major changes to the past, or is it basically inflexible?
> 
> My ultimate goal here will be to gain access to this time travel technology. I don't really understand what happened, but I'm hopeful that I can figure things out.

>> **u/wren42** [+3]  (24 minutes later)
>> 
>> that's a good point - the real answer if I'm being literal and not following the spirit of the question is likely "question the metaphysics of this reality."  I've just discovered I'm either insane, being manipulated or living in a simulation.  First priority is probably attempt communication with whoever is messing with me ;)

> **u/ben_oni** [+8]  (9 hours later)
> 
> After thinking about this scenario a bit, I realize I'd rather see someone do the harder version:
> 
> You are a native of the early 19th century, and have come across a modern-day smartphone with internet access, unlimited battery, and is not locked. The original owner appears to have died tragically. Initially you don't know what this device is, or how it works, but eventually you discover that it responds to the name "Okay Google", and is able to display cat pictures. What do you do from there?

>> **u/CCC_037** [+5]  (11 hours later)
>> 
>> ...I imagine this could very well end up with the smartphone either smashed or at the centre of a shrine to Okay Google the cat deity.

> **u/amoetodi** [+3]  (an hour later)
> 
> I plummet haphazardly into the bushes. The town I live in has been around for at least 500 years, so I'm two minutes away from the town centre, and a couple of miles away from where my ancestors lived. I'd go find them, because that seems like a laugh. So now I'm in central Scotland during the Scottish enlightenment. I'll go invent electronics and chill out with the cool 19th century rationalist community that was big at the time. I can understand Scots well enough to communicate, I don't think that would be too much of an issue. I'd probably do okay for myself.

> **u/VorpalAuroch** [+3]  *Life before Death* (3 hours later)
> 
> Inconveniently I am in Mountain View, which was not incorporated for another century. The San Francisco mission exists, but I'm still in Spanish territory and will be until Mexican independence in 20 years. I don't speak Spanish, and my English will make me stand out. I will also be mistaken for Jewish, which is not illegal in Spanish territory at this time but not convenient. Travel will be difficult.
> 
> My best bet is probably to jump-start the Gold Rush. If I can find maps of the biggest deposits/the areas owned by those who made the most money, I can probably do reasonably well and get infrastructure flowing in. Unfortunately this would probably also produce war and totally upend the political history of North America, since war with Spain in the 1810s would probably make the history of Mexico completely different, and possibly derail Manifest Destiny and the political unity of the USA, so the Civil War might not happen. On the plus side, this means that I would have a comparatively early way to check Wikipedia and see if my effects on the future are changing the internet I see.

>> **u/irrationalskeptic** [+1]  (12 hours later)
>> 
>> Your phone would help with language issues

>>> **u/VorpalAuroch** [+1]  *Life before Death* (12 hours later)
>>> 
>>> It can't do real-time and it can't do audio. Not that much.

>>>> **u/ben_oni** [+1]  (14 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Help, not solve. A pronunciation guide and Spanish-English dictionary is already a big help.

>>>> **u/Lorxu** [+1]  *Borg Collective* (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> Google Translate can do audio, and thus near-realtime (press record, read it, tell your phone your response, press read aloud)

>>>>> **u/VorpalAuroch** [+1]  *Life before Death* (2 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hmm, never when I've tried it. But it would be weirder if you believed that falsely than if I just hadn't set it up right.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In any case I would take a while to notice and once I did would have serious witchcraft allegations. Especially since, as mentioned, I look wicked Jewish and my initial points of contact would be literal Catholic priests.

> **u/thrawnca** [+3]  *Carbon-based biped* (9 hours later)
> 
> Um..internet access and unlimited battery? Seriously? Full two-way communication with a time period 200 years in the future?
> 
> http://www.hpmor.com/chapter/17 springs to mind.

>> **u/Izeinwinter** [+2]  (a day later)
>> 
>> . Well not with *your* future. That would be broken. You are obviously in a new branch of time/ancestor sim, with some kind of cross-time bullshit tethering your phone to your origin time frame. You can deduce this because the butterfly effect does not wink you out of existence in the first thirty seconds.

> **u/EthanCC** [+3]  (10 hours later)
> 
> I post this very question to r/rational

>> **u/swaskowi** [+7]  (a day later)
>> 
>> Nah, you would hedge with more specifics about your location, ethnicity/appearence, and any applicable skills if you were trying to get actionable data.

>>> **u/EthanCC** [+2]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> That's true. I'm thinking of doing a prank post on April 1 which is something along the lines of "How do I hide a body r/rational?" with really specific information.

>>>> **u/swaskowi** [+8]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> That's the kind of comment someone planning a murder between now and April would make to reduce suspicion.......

> **u/LazarusRises** [+6]  (an hour later)
> 
> When you start out, that phone will be the single most valuable object on Earth. You're going to want to keep it secret until you're powerful enough to protect it. Never take it out unless you're alone, preferably at night, with no chance of anyone walking in on you looking into a mysterious light square. You'll be doing a *lot* of nighttime reading. 
> 
> You probably don't have any 1800s dollars on you, so first thing would probably be to work a few hours washing dishes or sweeping floors. Once you have a seed, it's off to whichever racetracks have the best historical records in the area. Gotta move around a lot and start small so nobody clues in to the fact that you're a time traveler. 
> 
> Now that you have a little nest egg built up, start investing. Just like before, spread your investments out and go through middlemen. At this point you should probably hire bodyguards, you're going to get rich fast. 
> 
> Once you've backed the inventors of the steam engine, cotton gin, lightbulb, etc. (or maybe invented one or two of these yourself, if you like crafts) you'll be firmly set up as a magnate and power player in your city. Now you can start looking at historical USGS data and buying up parcels of land with valuable deposits. Stay away from oil, it won't be valuable for long. 
> 
> Congratulations, your name is now spoken in the same sentences as Rothschild and Vanderbilt! You can start your own mining/manufacturing industry now. I recommend starting with solar power and communications. Tesla won't come around for another few decades, so you can shamelessly steal the idea of the electric car, and make sure it takes this time. 
> 
> It should only take a few years for you to become Earth's wealthiest and most-loved individual. Quality of life has skyrocketed thanks to you, and this 'internet' thing is so much fun! Appoint your most trusted advisers to run your factories and server farms, it's time to go stop colonialism. 
> 
> Regrettably, the British East India Company already has its hooks in the subcontinent, but the real damage hasn't yet begun. Buy the Company. Research where the most valuable tea, ink, silk, etc. come from, go make fair trade deals with those populations. 
> 
> You'll have to do a lot of micromanaging in Europe to make sure they don't sink their teeth into India and Africa. You could do this by going to those places and giving them the technology to fend off incursion, but the whole point is to let them develop on their own, so maybe just give them medical technology and outbid anyone who wants to set up trade. Up to you and how valuable you think Western ideals are. Definitely give everyone solar and comms. 
> 
> The greatest catastrophes of the 19th century have been averted and you're by far the most powerful human alive, so now you can do pretty much what you like. You might kill Hitler's parents, but we're approaching a post-scarcity society, so Communism probably never arises for the National Socialists to fight. It might be fun to start the UN a century earlier and then try to unify the world under your rule, but that's a lot of responsibility, and things are going pretty smoothly worldwide at this point. Honestly I recommend appointing someone to do that while you build Xanadu and work on making sure your favorite authors and artists are born (and if not, on recreating their masterworks). 
> 
> You've given humanity a 200-year shortcut, minus all the pollution and exploitation! Regrettably this doesn't give you immortality, but put your best medical researchers and CS folks on the case. You for sure have access to the best medical technology around, so pump your labs full of cash and hope 2 centuries was enough of a boost.

>> **u/None** [+1]  (4 hours later)
>> 
>> [deleted]

>>> **u/LazarusRises** [+1]  (4 hours later)
>>> 
>>> I'd assumed there would be records kept, but if there are they're not readily available on the internet. Also it looks like organized horse racing didn't start in the USA until 1868. Might have to keep your day job until you can start investing.

>>>> **u/C_Densem** [+1]  *LessWrong (than usual)* (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> You could also play poker.
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVdTRPfDLQA

> **u/ulyssessword** [+2]  (46 minutes later)
> 
> I'm at a good place for a city, but almost 100 years early.  The first thing I would do is try to get to the nearest HBC fort, (found via maps and Wikipedia),  then try to get East far enough to reach a city (probably Winnipeg or Ottawa).  Set myself up as an academic, and trade technology for a good standard of living while simultaneously advancing Canada as a world power.

> **u/Nulono** [+2]  *Reverse-Oneboxer: Only takes the transparent box* (an hour later)
> 
> Define "on me".

>> **u/wren42** [+1]  (an hour later)
>> 
>> i assume what you are wearing, have in your pockets, holding, etc

>>> **u/Nulono** [+3]  *Reverse-Oneboxer: Only takes the transparent box* (4 hours later)
>>> 
>>> In that case, I celebrate the fact that my iPod can now hold a charge for longer than 5 minutes.

>>>> **u/Evan_Th** [+1]  *Sunshine Regiment* (14 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> No, you panic for six minutes or so, and *then* start celebrating.

>>>>> **u/Nulono** [+2]  *Reverse-Oneboxer: Only takes the transparent box* (15 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> It'd be apparent pretty quickly that the battery charge isn't plummeting.

> **u/SignoreGalilei** [+2]  (an hour later)
> 
> Real glad I'm on the first floor in a city founded well before 1800. I'm a few months late to invent the battery, but assuming this means "January 1 1800" I can still scoop electrolysis by a few months to get myself noticed by the scientific community. Having enough clout now not to be immediately dismissed as a crackpot, I can hopefully explain my situation to the scientific community and get continued living expenses paid while we work out how to implement inventions from the future.

>> **u/ben_oni** [+2]  (9 hours later)
>> 
>> > I'm a few ~~months~~ [millennia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery) late to invent the battery

>>> **u/SignoreGalilei** [+2]  (9 hours later)
>>> 
>>> The Baghdad batteries were unknown to Volta, still would count as "inventing" if I did it in 1798.  Plus unsure if they were really batteries if just one cell.

>>>> **u/ben_oni** [+2]  (11 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Points totally accepted. But now you know something interesting.

>>>>> **u/SignoreGalilei** [+1]  (12 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am indeed a big fan of ancient tech.

> **u/crivtox** [+2]  *Closed Time Loop Enthusiast* (2 hours later)
> 
> Define "same spot" .

>> **u/wren42** [+2]  (2 hours later)
>> 
>> longitude and latitude correspond.  altitude may or may not.

>>> **u/crivtox** [+2]  *Closed Time Loop Enthusiast* (3 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Well, if I get in the same altitude I'll fall to death but at least If civilization survives they will have a  unlimited battery to power them in the heath death of the universe.
>>> Otherwise I will have to get more information on the internet  about local history and some basic information that i would need   to survive and not seem suspicious( first ask other people on the internet what information is more important) .
>>> 
>>> Then I would try to get a place to stay and a job, or figure out how to get at least food and water.
>>> 
>>> Depending on the situation impressing someone which my magic glowing rectangle that only I can use can  be a good idea or a terrible one depending on cirscunstance  .
>>> 
>>>  Once I have time and safety ask on the internet  for ideas of what to do disguised as hypothetical scenarios,( maybe say that in writing a story about a time traveler to the 1800 and ask people for ideas and info to make it more  realistic).
>>> 
>>> My phone gives me insane  math superpowers  , so figure out how munch of my awesome computing  power I can let people know and what kinds of jobs I can get whith that( I'm actually really interested in that , maybe I'll propose a similar thing but whith only a calculator and no memories of future tech in the next Saturday munchkinism thread ).
>>> 
>>> I live  in Spain so I'll have to ensure I leave the country in a few years.
>>> 
>>> I'll investigate what happened to me in my original timeline to search for clues.
>>> 
>>> It would be awesome if I could prove that I time traveled   to the people of my time and therefore  get help from a ton of experts  , but it's unlikely that I will be able to convince people.But convincing people from the  year 1800  is easier given that I don't lose mi phone.
>>> 
>>>  On the long term my goal is triying to uplift civilization as munch as posible, and try to make people more interested on x risk prevention and life extension, and If I can get rudimentary cryonics before I die better( but I don't think I would be able to improve tech that munch), and improve civilization in general .

> **u/MagicWeasel** [+2]  *Cheela Astronaut* (5 hours later)
> 
> Not only does my city not exist, but nobody who speaks a language resembling any of the ones I speak to any degree of fluency lives within several thousand kilometres. 
> 
> Fortunately there are Noongar dictionaries online, so I can use those as a starting point for communication and pick up on the language within a year or so.
> 
> I think realistically I'd try to integrate with whichever local tribal group would have me. I don't really see the point in trying to do an Uplift, but I'll use my knowledge and internet access to the best of my ability to make our lives easier. Realistically it won't really change much because of the lack of infrastructure.
> 
> The first British settlers come in 1830 so I'll probably still be alive when that happens. That'll be trippy for them. I'll offer some suggestions. I work in road design so I'll probably advise them to leave nice big road reserves, and I'll tell them about the gold desposits inland. See if I can meet up with a scientist who has access to industrial methods and work out how to accellerate technology.
> 
> Realistically though I guess my main hope is for an idyllic hunter-gatherer lifestyle, which I know is far from actually existed in reality. With some googling I might have access to some climate records from 1800s and be able to predict droughts and stuff, maybe.

> **u/Sceptically** [+2]  (9 hours later)
> 
> Fall, suffer injury, and probably die of internal bleeding or exposure.
> 
> (Edit: And if I survive the fall without significant injury and meet the local people before I die of starvation or exposure, probably get stabbed.)

> **u/CCC_037** [+2]  (12 hours later)
> 
> Step one, panic.
> 
> Step two, attempt to contact anyone and let them know what happened. (I can't phone, but I can send out panicy emails. I can work with that.) It won't do me any good, but I don't know that yet.
> 
> Step thr - no, step *one and a half*, climb a tree. I should be able to see the (much smaller) city from up there, and it probably won't be more than three or four days' hike away.
> 
> ...I'll need water, eventually. I can see a river from up in my tree. Food will be trickier, I'll have to find an ally, perhaps in the city... I can certainly 'invent' stuff to pay my way...

>> **u/Evan_Th** [+3]  *Sunshine Regiment* (14 hours later)
>> 
>> >I can't phone, but I can send out panicy emails.
>> 
>> Step 2.1:  Sign up for a Google Voice account, so you can panic by phone too.  And call your family and let them know where you are.
>> 
>> Step 2.2:  Post on /r/rational:  "I've been transported back to the early 1800's, with just my clothes and smartphone, which somehow has internet.  How can I live long and prosper?"

>>> **u/CCC_037** [+2]  (15 hours later)
>>> 
>>> I believe a slight change is required. In step 2.2, I will provide a location.
>>> 
>>> After all, I'm not particularly interested in how to live long and prosper in 1800's *America*.

> **u/Kishoto** [+2]  (a day later)
> 
> As I said on the main post; I start to wonder why my phone isn't breaking reality and probably accidentally end up doing something analogous to HPJEV's time turner "Don't mess with time" experiment. 
> 
> Except since this is the real world, and not a story, I'm expecting more catastrophic results.

> **u/PretentiousSmirk** [+4]  (10 hours later)
> 
> I get whatever work I can, live life quietly and try to avoid getting lynched or something (black). I get married and have kids and tell them my story along with where to find me in 2017. They tell their kids and so on until that version of me receives a letter from me  telling him to seriously arm up the day of the time jump. 
> 
> 2nd me comes back seconds after I got there seriously armed and while I'm impressed, I become somewhat used to it as more me's start pouring in with weapons, food, and various materials, basically stuff previous versions of me realized we can't replicate even with smartphone research. Eventually more meds stop showing up. Changing the future as much as we're going to means I'm probably not born in this universe.
> 
> My army of me sets up camp near an area we can mine for precious metals (smartphone research) and sends out squads to rescue slaves and bring them to my little proto-country. They'll be free citizens but they'll have to swear allegiance to the grand council of Me's. We're friendly enough but we're also basically a Me-worshipping cult. Better than being slaves though right? With the added labor of folks with actual farming experience, the money we can make from mining, and our overwhelming military might, the U.S. has no choice but to let us keep one of their states as our own separate country. A few groups of me stay in America as citizens. They bet on pretty much anything they can research and start businesses/ investing in profitable businesses. Eventually their families get rich enough to bribe politicians and sometime in the mid to late 1900s the U.S. cedes more land/territories to its newest and most terrifying ally. 
> 
> After that, the focus is bringing all of our resources to bear to find the source of my one-time time jump in the first place. Assuming that can be accomplished, we send squads of indoctrinated citizen-soldiers led by versions of me (plucked from the 1800s) back to different points in time to sew themselves into various seats of power. The me's won't be at the forefront for obvious reasons, but I only trust myself to keep my cult in line. 
> 
> By 2017 every world leader has agreed to make me (whichever members of the collective got to make it back to the future) their God-Kings and we mostly just use the power to park free and impress hot chicks at bars.

>> **u/thrawnca** [+2]  *Carbon-based biped* (a day later)
>> 
>> This reminds me of Branches on the Tree of Time...

>>> **u/PretentiousSmirk** [+3]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Lol it should. That fic taught me that the only correct solution to any time travel problem is to use it to farm people

> **u/SeeRedGinger** [+3]  (42 minutes later)
> 
> Use ancestory.ca and kill hitlers grandparents.. and other political figures who shall remain unnamed

>> **u/WilyCoyotee** [+3]  (a day later)
>> 
>> Why kill? Why not try to become a businessman and simply offer one of Hitler's ancestors a job in another town or something before they meet their OTL spouse?
>> 
>> Thus preventing hitler's birth without murder of someone effectively innocent?

>>> **u/SeeRedGinger** [+1]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> sounds reasonable.. but what If that makes a worse person!? variable's that cannot be foreseen!

>>>> **u/WilyCoyotee** [+3]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> Killing hitler's no guarantee, either, because Hitler joined the Nazis rather than the other way around. Someone else just as popular but maybe more competent could have arisen absent hitler, or a successful Communist revolution of germany, etc. 
>>>> 
>>>> The choice without murder just seems better, honestly.

>>> **u/Silver_Swift** [+1]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Realistically, even that is overkill. A single second delay in a persons conception radically changes what genes that person is born with. 
>>> 
>>> Just walking up to one of Hitler's ancestors, saying "Hi" and walking away is probably sufficient. Of course, this only prevents the exact incarnation of WWII that we had in our timeline, there is no guarantee that this will actually improve the situation.

>> **u/lawnmowerlatte** [+5]  (an hour later)
>> 
>> You might say **He Who Must Not Be Named**.

>>> **u/SeeRedGinger** [+1]  (2 hours later)
>>> 
>>> a missed opportunity

> **u/Sevii** [+1]  (11 hours later)
> 
> Gold Rush!!!

> **u/irrationalskeptic** [+1]  (12 hours later)
> 
> I think most web connection authentication uses some sort of time synchronization protocol so the internet connection would be kind of useless. Beyond that, fucking with time is always a bad idea. So I guess I'll just have fun violating thermodynamics?? If the battery operates on a fixed voltage I just find the best conductor I can to maximize power output

>> **u/CCC_037** [+2]  (15 hours later)
>> 
>> > I think most web connection authentication uses some sort of time synchronization protocol so the internet connection would be kind of useless.
>> 
>> If that was true, then I would not be able to connect to the internet if my computer clock was set wrong.
>> 
>> A brief experiment shows that setting my computer clock wrong still allows me to connect to the internet.
>> 
>> Time travel may break physics, but it does not appear to break the internet.

>>> **u/Sceptically** [+3]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Go ahead and set your clock to 1980 and see how many sites won't load due to certificates not being valid.
>>> 
>>> The reason the time won't be an issue here is because you wouldn't be setting your clock to the local time, it would be picking up the time through its internet connection.

>>>> **u/CCC_037** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> Admittedly, my test run didn't use https because I hadn't considered that. But yeah, leaving the smartphone clock set to modern times will fix that.

>> **u/Sceptically** [+2]  (a day later)
>> 
>> Your phone gets its time through either GPS or by NTP. GPS presumably won't work because of the lack of satellites, and if it does work then you're not picking up the *local* time. NTP (Network Time Protocol) works over the internet, so it's also getting the time from the future you came from.
>> 
>> In neither case will you have any issues with the time setting on your phone causing certificates to be invalid. The only reason you'd have problems is if you set the phone time manually to the local time.

>> **u/ben_oni** [+1]  (14 hours later)
>> 
>> > most web connection authentication uses some sort of time synchronization protocol
>> 
>> No, not really. TCP/IP and HTTP do pretty much all of it. The only HTTP header a client must provide is *Host*. The server will generally reply with a *Date* header, but that's hardly a deal-breaker. TCP, on the other hand, is more concerned with sequencing, and IP only cares about source and destination.

> **u/hankyusa** [+1]  *Sunshine Regiment* (13 hours later)
> 
> Somehow, without killing anyone, prevent Joseph Smith Jr. from being born.

>> **u/thrawnca** [+2]  *Carbon-based biped* (a day later)
>> 
>> > prevent Joseph Smith Jr. from being born
>> 
>> Really? Of all the things you could achieve, that's your #1 priority?
>> 
>> I mean, you only have to wait a few decades for him to be shot in jail *anyway*...
>> 
>> You wouldn't rather, say, rearrange relationships to alter *Hitler's* family tree? Or take steps to reduce the death toll from the US civil war? Massively expand the body of medical knowledge? Or, if you're more self-interested, you should easily be able to find enough gold seams, buried treasure, etc, to set yourself up for life.
>> 
>> Out of all the endless possibilities, this choice baffles me.

>>> **u/hankyusa** [+1]  *Sunshine Regiment* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> It's not the best thing I could do (not my "#1 priority"), but due to personal experience it's the first thing I thought of. Joseph Smith Jr. was born in 1806 and died in 1844, but the religion he founded ruins lives to this day. Pop over to r/exmormon to see what I'm talking about. 
>>> 
>>> I've thought of the discussion prompt on my own many times (except I usually imagine an earlier date and a solar powered laptop with wikipedia downloaded to it) and have wanted to see some rational fiction about it. It's the reason I enjoyed [Saruman of many Devices](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7568728/1/Saruman-of-many-Devices) dispite having no interest in guns. I also really liked the lecture at the end of [chapter 74 of Mother of Learning](https://www.fictionpress.com/s/2961893/74/Mother-of-Learning) where Silverlake points out how modern industry relies on an entire society of infrastructure. 
>>> 
>>> I think I would focus on advancing human knowledge via publishing. I'd allow others to build infrastructure based on the things I publish. I'd focus first on advancing medical knowledge. 
>>> 
>>> What's the most efficient way to get to the stage of mass publishing? 
>>> 
>>> What would happen if people learned about the risks of overpopulation and climate change part way through the industrial revolution (1760 - 1840)?

>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+2]  *Carbon-based biped* (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> > due to personal experience
>>>> 
>>>> I'm sorry to hear that; it sounds like there's a sad story there.
>>>> 
>>>> I doubt that whatever happened is Joseph Smith's personal fault, though, in the way that millions of deaths can be laid at Hitler's feet. And the Smiths would be already married by then, so you'd be hard pressed to intervene nonviolently; tweaking Hitler's ancestry would likely be simpler.
>>>> 
>>>> Also, the existence of disgruntled people who leave is far from sufficient proof that an organisation is a blight on humanity worthy of being erased from time. If there are people who get upset and leave the Democratic party, should we therefore go back a few years more and erase Andrew Jackson? More likely the mistakes and problems are being made by a few people in this century.
>>>> 
>>>> The printing press was already around long before the 1800s, but you could certainly add a lot to what was being printed. Shouldn't be too hard to make enough money to pay for it.

>> **u/LiteralHeadCannon** [+1]  (a day later)
>> 
>> This reminds me of a question I pondered some number of years ago, "what if the early Mormon church got Guns Of The South'd to victory in some way".

> **u/CouteauBleu** [+1]  *We are the Empire.* (15 hours later)
> 
> AKA: *What if you had a machine gun and a computer and you were in Middle Age Europe / Ancient Rome / etc - edition #378*.

> **u/cae_jones** [+1]  (4 days later)
> 
> If this happens at this moment, I'd at least have one pair of socks, gloves, a hoody. Given the time of year and accounting for climate change... probably get frostbite and lose my extremely useful fingers in short order (they're really cheap gloves), or toes, since I'm not currently wearing warm shoes. Also, been trying to run a calorie deficit for a few days, and am already kinda thirsty, so if the cold wouldn't get me, dehydration and starvation probably would.
> 
> Assuming that this happens instead on my way home from a holiday feast, the first thing to do is to use the magical internet connection to get someone on video call, stat. It's dangerous to go alone. If the internet connection has limitations that prevent calls, then I'd have to focus on finding a way to survive the winter and find safe food/water. There might be some people within 100km, but I wouldn't rely on it, or with meeting them going well. If all of that works out, I'd either wait for a sunny day, or use my phone's compass, and head in the general direction of the Mississippi River. With the absence of reliable roadways, food, etc, this will almost certainly take several times as long as it should. I think 2mph would be optimistic under these conditions, so let's assume we're looking at a week or so. Assuming *all* of that works out, follow the river until I find someone I can communicate with. (Also, try to reduce the odds of losing the phone, or having it easily stolen during the "umm, hi?" phase of contact.)
> 
> Odds are, the first people I'd be able to communicate with would speak French, and while I speak some, understanding native speakers is another matter entirely. I'd be hard pressed to keep the phone a secret, so it'd almost certainly be stolen at some point, and I'm pretty much doomed thence forth. My best hope would probably be running into a genuinely virtuous, charitable, bilingual person with sufficient resources to have my back long enough to get back to action. Since such people are hard to find and harder to recognize, and we've already required *way* more than 3 things to go right, It's probably safe to assume me=doomed.
> 
> But assuming that *all* of that *extremely convenient* stuff works out, I suppose I'd try to play the "no seriously Siri is not a demon... OK, I'm sure there's a seal of Solomon here somewhere..." game until the Louisiana Purchase shakes things up. If I haven't gone beyond someone's pet oracle by that point, "i'd sell information to whichever US explorer/diplomat/merchant will buy. I miiight need to find a way to disincentivize people from screwing me over, but I'm not sure how to leverage what I can get from the internet to accomplish this. Credible oracles really oughtn't make a habit of lies and deception, and we're talking people who would not be sufficiently impressed by predicting earthquakes and hurricanes. I think I *can* make the phone effectively useless to anyone who would try to steal it, other than the most methodical investigators (If it's an iPhone, screen curtain and voiceover at the highest speed I can understand is enough to lock out most moderns). However, I really *should* plan for the possibility of my death (what with the terrible medical system and me being the bottleneck for rapid improvement), so I probably would need to teach someone how to use it. And I think I'm bad enough at people that I really struggle to keep up even these best case predictions.
> 
> Oh, and try very hard not to contract smallpox, cholera, dysentery, malaria, yellow fever, or siffolus. Like, I'd need to focus on pushing medical advancement very quickly, just as a matter of self preservation. The mosquitos are bad enough *without* the ability to kill you. ... Ugh, and I just realized all the wonderful biting arthropods I'd have to hike through. If I get warning before this trip, most of my equipment will have to be a ton of granola bars, oranges, and bug repellant. Oh, and V8s. There goes my entire backpack.
> 
> (P.S. need to work on my Japanese and put my phone in Japanese. You know, for security.)

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