scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/7e8ger.md

## Fiction where the good guys have also read the evil overlord list?

* Author: u/ArgentStonecutter  *Emergency Mustelid Hologram**
* URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/7e8ger/fiction_where_the_good_guys_have_also_read_the/
* Score: 20

* Created: 2017-11-20T12:13:33

### Post:

Is there any genre-aware fiction with genre-savvy characters where the good guys also read the Evil Overlord list.

So when the villain sends his troops out to capture some obscure object, they check the want ads. If he's in hiding, they trace him down by looking for large purchases of redundant power supplies and failover transfer switches. That sort of thing.

### Comments:

> **u/Iconochasm** [+30]  (29 minutes later)
> 
> The Practical Guide to Evil has the "200 Heroic Maxims", some of them were genre-savvy, but most were just good advice.  "Get a sword that's actually the right size for you.  Not only will you survive longer, but you'll catch a lot fewer derogatory jokes along the way."

>> **u/ArgentStonecutter** [+7]  *Emergency Mustelid Hologram* (58 minutes later)
>> 
>> Just started this so I'm looking forward to it... though I'm kind of wondering if there's any actual good guys in it. No spoilers please.

>>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+25]  *We are the Empire.* (2 hours later)
>>> 
>>> There are characters who are shown as genuinely concerned with ethics and the well-being of their fellow human beings, on both "sides" of the conflict.

>>> **u/AurelianoTampa** [+12]  (3 hours later)
>>> 
>>> > I'm kind of wondering if there's any actual good guys in it.
>>> 
>>> A central conflict in the story is that Good and Evil don't always mean "moral" and "immoral." You'll encounter Good characters who are not what we'd consider "good," and you'll grow to root for "Evil" characters who aren't always "evil." It often depends on where they're sitting in a conflict, and if you're considering the ethics on a personal level or a broader level. For example, it is "bad" to kill a person in general, but could be considered "good" if their death prevents a war that would end up killing thousands. 
>>> 
>>> Hope that's not too much of a spoiler, and that you enjoy the series!

> **u/AurelianoTampa** [+16]  (7 hours later)
> 
> Another option frequently posted on here is ["Worth the Candle,"](http://archiveofourown.org/works/11478249/chapters/25740126) which very much involves a genre-savvy protagonist (as the fantasy world he finds himself seems to be an amalgam of a bunch of his old tabletop campaigns). I generally dislike self-insert fantasy world fics, but this one is amazingly entertaining.

>> **u/Trudar** [+5]  (8 hours later)
>> 
>> This sounds very similar to the [Erfworld](http://www.erfworld.com/) webcomic. How similar are these, if you have by any chance read it?

>>> **u/ansible** [+14]  *The Culture* (8 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Erfworld is where a wargamer nerd has been put into a world based on war gaming rules.  The actual world has hexes and move points and all that.  Everyone works by the same rules.  But the protagonist is a munchkin of the highest degree, and quickly learns to exploit the system.
>>> 
>>> Juniper Smith (the MC from Worth the Candle) is (was?) a long-time DM for D&D, thrust into a world partially of his own making.  But it is a real world, not a game world. Most people in the world don't operate by the game rules, they're just doing their own thing.  Learning to swordfight by practising and hard work.  JS, on the other hand, unlocks new skills and achievements with a progression similar to that of other computer RPGs.  He is the only one he knows that can "level up" where he gets magically healed and his stats go up.

>>>> **u/Trudar** [+1]  (8 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you!

>>>> **u/SoylentRox** [-2]  (20 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> *Actually*, he's not the only one.  Which is one thing that makes the story so good.  Our protagonist got amazingly lucky (and/or his powers are related to his origin), but he doesn't have powers that are unprecedented or impossible within the framework of this world.  Other members of his D&D group who were inserted into the same world have similar powers, there are entities known as gods who either have similar powers or powers that work totally differently but are at a similar tier.
>>>> 
>>>> (if our protagonist lives to that point in the RPG, he'll probably have powers comparable to the gods and be given quests to slay the ones he doesn't like)

>>>>> **u/ansible** [+6]  *The Culture* (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I didn't mention that because of *spoilers*...

>>> **u/AurelianoTampa** [+4]  (8 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Sadly I can't help you there; I've heard of Erfworld but never read it myself... sorry!
>>> 
>>> I felt like WTC was kind of a slow start; I've read some really bad "You're in a fantasy world that's like a game!" stuff before and was willing to give it a shot even when the beginning didn't immediately impress me. I'm glad I did; it got better and better as it went on, and some of the chapters in the 50s really got me thinking (the story gets very "meta"). I also liked how the protagonist would have flashbacks to his tabletop games and old life. It's like there are two stories unfolding simultaneously - his new life in the fantasy world, and his old life as we slowly figure out what happened to himself and his tabletop friends. It was a pretty unique perspective.

>>>> **u/Trudar** [+1]  (8 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> This is very enocuarging. I'm purring it on my "to read" list (and it's fairly short at this moment :) )

>>> **u/ArgentStonecutter** [+2]  *Emergency Mustelid Hologram* (12 hours later)
>>> 
>>> I read Erfworld for quite a few years but this last year it's just gotten so ... I don't know ... I don't care any more.

>>>> **u/Trudar** [+4]  (15 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Hmm, I can feel what you mean.
>>>> 
>>>> Problem is, the story got very complicated, it's being told in several time points at once, every groups' interests keep uncovering, and pace grind to a halt.
>>>> 
>>>> Also the site became community-centric, leaving casual readers a little bit alone.
>>>> 
>>>> I visit the page ~once per month or so, so it's more interesting this way.

>>>>> **u/ArgentStonecutter** [+1]  *Emergency Mustelid Hologram* (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, there seems to be a new magic plot token every other week.

>>>> **u/sparr** [+1]  (19 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> I read "book 1" of erfworld when that was all there was, then they moved to a different website and I never realized. Now I know that I am years behind.

>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (a day later)
>> 
>> I've been seeing the updates for it in this subreddit, but hadn't checked it out. Have now caught up.
>> 
>> Seems like a decent gamer fic, if very far from complete. And with a significant number of sexual references. I'd agree with the title.

> **u/panchoadrenalina** [+9]  (9 hours later)
> 
> what about the Order of the Stick? the protags live the genre-savvy-ness and is great

>> **u/ArgentStonecutter** [+3]  *Emergency Mustelid Hologram* (11 hours later)
>> 
>> I'm looking for written fiction, not web comics.
>> 
>> Plus, I've read some of it and was unimpressed.

> **u/buckykat** [+5]  (8 hours later)
> 
> There's Schlock Mercenary, where the protagonists have read the [Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries](http://schlockmercenary.wikia.com/wiki/The_Seventy_Maxims_of_Maximally_Effective_Mercenaries).
> 
> Beware archive panic, though. It's a webcomic which has updated every day since the late 90's.

>> **u/ArgentStonecutter** [+6]  *Emergency Mustelid Hologram* (12 hours later)
>> 
>> I read some of that years ago and it was pretty awful.

>>> **u/leniadolbap** [+4]  (2 days later)
>>> 
>>> The author agrees with you: If you go to the first page of the archive, it suggests starting at book 12 instead (that would be around year 2010).  Here's the link: http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2010-11-29
>>> I really like Schlock Mercenary myself!

>>> **u/kraryal** [+2]  (17 hours later)
>>> 
>>> It has consistently improved. I wouldn't go back to the very beginning, but in recent years Schlock's been quite good.

>>> **u/Empiricist_or_not** [+1]  *Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm* (2 days later)
>>> 
>>> Look at what others have said.  If nothing else you have a fairly decent [one big Lie: FTL, mayby two or three with FTL and graviton cannons](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness) graphic science fiction where AI is not a singelton, has multiple full kardashev 1-2 civilizations depicted from a human 1.0 scale, and has been updating daily since the late 90s.  *This guy puts in some thought; and delivers humor, or hmm. . . I hadn't thought of that daily, and has been doing it for almost 20 years*

>> **u/Empiricist_or_not** [+1]  *Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm* (11 hours later)
>> 
>> The archive dive is worth it, and the 70 maxims is good humor and gives people a laugh if it's next to your art of war, book of five rings and Clausewitz on your bookshelf.

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