scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/8bhjwe.md

## [RT][WIP] Worth the Candle, Ch 88/89 (Solitude/Face)

* Author: u/cthulhuraejepsen  *Fruit flies like a banana**
* URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/11478249/chapters/32954463
* Score: 171

* Created: 2018-04-11T14:38:03

### Post:

[Link to content](https://archiveofourown.org/works/11478249/chapters/32954463)

### Comments:

> **u/valeskas** [+43]  (4 hours later)
> 
> I have a feeling that Zona can consume entads. That would explain why nothing left and her condition for using the HTC.

>> **u/kaukamieli** [+16]  (5 hours later)
>> 
>> Oooh, that's why she is way smarter than she should be... Upgrades.

>> **u/sicutumbo** [+11]  (5 hours later)
>> 
>> The simpler explanation is that she hoards them due to greed or some similar motivation.  If she kills at a whim, lying about the number of entads to Joon and co. to stop them from looking for them would hardly register as immoral.

>> **u/SpeculativeFiction** [+8]  (6 hours later)
>> 
>> Makes sense. I wonder if she's the next/last party member. If so, she wouldn't be revealed so as to preserve tension, and because she has no interest in joining them yet.
>> 
>> Then again, she's both too powerful, and rather restricted in location.

>>> **u/rabotat** [+7]  (7 hours later)
>>> 
>>> >  rather restricted in location
>>> 
>>> So's the locus, but then again that's precisely why I don't think Joon is getting another companion fixed in a place.

>>> **u/valeskas** [+7]  (19 hours later)
>>> 
>>> > restricted in location.
>>> 
>>> There was a bit of flying worldbuilding, Zona can move around, piracy cannons, and Fenn still needs an awesome hat. 
>>> So there is an intriguing possibility.

>>>> **u/dalitt** [+3]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> If Zona can fly, that would be awesome — but what’s the relationship to Fenn having an awesome hat?

>>>>> **u/valeskas** [+3]  (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I was playing Heroes 3 lately, and [Admiral's Hat](http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Admiral%27s_Hat) was on my mind.

>>> **u/rmangalurker** [+3]  (21 hours later)
>>> 
>>> If the theory that all of Joon's party member are princess, then Zona could be (related to) the real Zona from Uther era.

> **u/infomaton** [+39]  (58 minutes later)
> 
> > “We may be dumb, but we’re not that dumb,” said Fenn.
> 
> > “I say we follow it,” I said.
> 
> Well done CRJ.

>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+1]  *We are the Empire.* (11 hours later)
>> 
>> ?

>>> **u/infomaton** [+3]  (11 hours later)
>>> 
>>> That wasn't sarcasm, if that's what confused you. It was an especially funny bit from the chapter. Context might be necessary to make sense of it.

>>>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+9]  *We are the Empire.* (11 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> I meant, what does "CRJ" means?
>>>> 
>>>> I just realized it was an acronym for the author's name.

> **u/PurposefulZephyr** [+40]  (8 hours later)
> 
> So let's see:  
> 
> * Another forge frenzy building.  
> * Explicit talking about a hidden theme, only revealed later. (Fallatehr and the identity theme of the prison)  
> * This forge frenzy mansion has a person living inside of for centuries, bored with repetition.  
> * Amaryllis is about to spend a long time inside a room, with little company besides books.
> 
> There's some sort of deep thematic connection between those two...  
> Oh. Do notice how Tiff... changed, in various little ways, from how Joon remembered her. Also, we don't know how was she way back when, personality-wise.  
> 
> The theme of this place is *changing with time*. Amaryllis won't come out the same person, and this time the change will be more permanent that random soul fuckery.

>> **u/Kilbourne** [+10]  (14 hours later)
>> 
>> How could bouts of extended solitary confinement *not* change someone? I agree.

>> **u/xartab** [+6]  (7 days later)
>> 
>> Going with your premises, I think a more fitting theme would be *maddening isolation*.

> **u/CouteauBleu** [+36]  *We are the Empire.* (11 hours later)
> 
> It's kind of scary how close to death the adventurers came in this chapter.
> 
> The only reasons they're all still alive is:
> 
> - They discussed the possibility of inhabiting Zona while in her earshot.
> 
> - The fortress was too bored of killing people after all the people she'd previously killed to put serious effort into killing the adventurers.
> 
> It's like a cross between *Tomb of Horrors* and the Heterodyne Castle.

> **u/Makin-** [+35]  *homestuck ratfic, you can do it* (3 hours later)
> 
> Okay, some wild guesses despite my horrible track record.
> 
> - Zona really is Uther's wife. She was turned into Kuum Doona after he tried to make her invulnerable to damage from The Plot. 
> 
> - The dungeon master is an instance of Arthur (maybe Uther after becoming a god? who knows) and gave Joon Amaryllis to make up for the fact he basically stole his girlfriend.

>> **u/WalterTFD** [+35]  (4 hours later)
>> 
>> I don't think the DM is Arthur in any shape or form.  I could definitely buy Zona as Uther's wife though.

>> **u/Kilbourne** [+12]  (4 hours later)
>> 
>> I like your first guess but the second grates on me in some way.

>> **u/GeeJo** [+12]  *Custom Flair* (a day later)
>> 
>> The first guess is pretty likely:
>> 
>> > “I am not a subject of Anglecynn,” said Zona. “I do not bow [to] its princes or princesses.” 
>> 
>> If you were **Queen** of Anglecynn, both of those statements remain true without betraying the fact that you have a strong connection to the nation itself.

>> **u/dalitt** [+11]  (6 hours later)
>> 
>> Your first guess is my reading as well.  The implications of her looking like Tiff are...interesting.

>>> **u/narfanator** [+21]  (9 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Eh. Amaryllis is an attempt at an "ideal" for June; Arthur pined after Tiff so if you were a lazy GodDM (heh) that's low-handing fruit for the look of an intended love interest.
>>> 
>>> PS - Totally now calling the DM/God the GodDM, because "goddamn".

>> **u/abcd_z** [+5]  (14 hours later)
>> 
>> Or how about this one: Tiff was, somehow, Arthur's wife and "Zona" was just made in her image.

>> **u/monkyyy0** [+1]  (19 hours later)
>> 
>> The 2nd add's complexity
>> 
>> That a god exists is a given, that arthur was offered the same deal joon was is given. Your suggesting a 2nd god existing

> **u/sicutumbo** [+28]  (6 hours later)
> 
> I feel bad for Taft. He just wanted to give tours and be with his wife. Instead he gets to see if the bottomless pit actually is. For everyone else that Joon and co. have killed, they at the least signed up for guard duty or an equivalent. Lots of the people they killed were also either evil in some way, or at least complete assholes. They generally knew what they signed up for. Taft had a cushy job acting as a tour guide.
> 
> Anyways, I've forgotten a few minor things about some of the entads, and was hoping someone here remembers.
> 
> Fenn had her artillery bow, and it has a limit on the number of artillery shots she can use. How does it recharge? And is there a limit to the number of charges it can hold?
> 
> How does Grak's axe work? It makes his hair grow, but I forget what the condition is to use that ability.
> 
> Is Ropey more durable than a normal rope?
> 
> And I suppose one more question relevant for this chapter: Is Amaryllis planning to just store months/years worth of excretion in Sable? This would be an inconvenient time to discover whether Sable has a limit to its sorage capacity. I suppose she can dump everything into the pit every time she comes out of the HTC, assuming Zona allows it.

>> **u/Makin-** [+14]  *homestuck ratfic, you can do it* (9 hours later)
>> 
>> If I remember correctly, Grak's axe makes hair grow wherever it hits, and he's used that ability to make hair appear over enemy's eyes and stuff. Presumably very light touches still work for self-use.

>> **u/Permash** [+9]  (13 hours later)
>> 
>> Assuming that sable currently holds all of the food/water/air she'll need in the time chamber, there's no reason to think it should run out of space while she's inside. The amount of mass in the glove won't actually be changing; it'll only be converted to waste.

>>> **u/sicutumbo** [+7]  (13 hours later)
>>> 
>>> I actually didn't think about air usage (it wasn't mentioned explicitly so in retrospect it shouldn't be a concern) but my assumption is that she's going to be pulling food, drink, and anything else she needs from the backpack. The backpack *does* create mass, or at least teleports it from somewhere else, so if she stayed inside long enough she could find Sable's limits if it has any.

>>>> **u/Permash** [+6]  (13 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> “I presume that you’ve brought your own sources of food, water, air, and waste elimination, as well as ways of providing for your personal hygine.”
>>>> 
>>>> They briefly mentioned it there, but didn’t go into detail on how exactly air would be exchanged. I’d just assumed they would do it somehow with Sable.
>>>> 
>>>> Good point on the backpack, I’d assumed they’d already taken everything she would need and packed it in Sable. If she relied heavily on the backpack and was incredibly unlucky, that could get pretty bad if Sable reached capacity.

>>>>> **u/sicutumbo** [+7]  (13 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Wow I failed on a memory check there. Thanks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> **Narratively,** I am confident in saying that Amaryllis won't die because she doesn't know how gas exchange works and never pulled something out of the backpack to convert carbon dioxide back into oxygen.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Honestly, they should just let Amaryllis have everything they can provide her with. Including all their weapons. She has plenty of time to, say, get good with bows or Anyblade. It's not like everyone else will get more use of them in 45 minutes than she will in a month. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The backpack is especially great for her because she doesn't even need to cook, just pull out whatever hot food she wants. Same with books or items. I mentioned a wiki walk in my other top level comment, and I think it's a good analogy. She'll want lots of random information that is impractical to load up ahead of time.

>>>>>> **u/Permash** [+3]  (14 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I agree on the narrative part, it wouldn’t make sense or be interesting to most readers to have a whole section on gas exchange or waste disposal. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That ‘wiki walk’ would make for a really interesting dynamic if she came out incredibly knowledgeable about Earth, maybe even more than Juniper. We’ll likely see some of that as she plan’s Aerb’s technological revolution.

> **u/sicutumbo** [+23]  (7 hours later)
> 
> (I feel that this is separate enough from my previous comment to warrant a new one)
> 
> I really want Amaryllis to come out of the HTC having gone through an equivalent to a wiki walk or twenty. Joon may be decently well versed on Earth's culture and some aspects of technology, but being in high school I doubt he really comprehends how advanced Earth is compared to Aerb. Aerb may have a few electronics, but is medieval in a number of ways. I want to see Amaryllis marvel at some of the things that modern Earth people kind of just take for granted. Intercontinental flight that is only subsonic because it's more fuel efficient rather than physical limitations, global communication, vaccines and how multiple diseases have been eliminated or virtually so, the luxuries that are available to even the poorest people in the first world, the wealth of information available about all aspects of nature, women's rights, the near complete lack of monarchies in advanced nation's, and so on. Hell, the entire concept of a globe Earth and orbital mechanics, since she lives on an explicitly flat one. Imagine explaining to someone on Aerb that we sent up some humans to another planet that's thousands of miles away, launched on a vehicle the size of a skyscraper that goes up due to a barely controlled explosion, that said vehicle was single use only, and that we thought it a valuable use of resources to send up a hammer and feather to test the known effects of gravity, and a mirror to measure the speed of light. Oh, and we also brought back some rocks. We did all this to prove that we were better than some other nation that we kind of sorta weren't at war with. Oh, and if we did go to war with that nation, it would probably kill everything.
> 
> Data storage! How could I forget. Try explaining to someone who thinks of "computer" as a profession that we have devices that fit in your hand that can hold libraries worth of books, meter scale resolution maps of the entire planet, hundreds of thousands of paintings, and it's available with a few days' wages at the lowest you're legally allowed to pay people.

>> **u/xachariah** [+19]  (13 hours later)
>> 
>> Aerb isn't the Harry Potter magical world.  The biggest thing that will come up when Amaryllis reads up on Earth is that she'll be amazed by the lack of catastrophes.  "If we went to war with [Russia], it would probably kill everything" is really cute when Aerb really did have a thermonuclear war, and it ended up with nukes being excluded.
>> 
>> Earth has advantages in the form of plastics and electronics, and everything else is inferior, at parity, or blocked by some aspect of Aerb.  (And possibly plastics aren't on Aerb because they don't have petroleum.)
>> 
>> * Intercontinental flight - Worse than teleporting, plus dragons   
>> * Global Communication - They've also got global communication  
>> * Vaccines - Worse than Aerb medical magic  
>> * Luxuries - We haven't seen Aerb be any worse than Earth  
>> * Wealth of Information to anyone - Not an advantage in a world where knowledge is literally power, and power keeps killing billions  
>> * Lack of monarchies - Aerb is superior if you live in a world where levels and stats are real, and arguably democracy is similarly untenable in said world    
>> * Orbital Mechanics - A cute but useless endeavor on a flat planet  
>> * Traveling to the moon - They already did that with an entire population  
>> 
>> We've got arguably a better economy (although they've got some post-scarcity stuff going on) and better electronics, but Aerb isn't full of backwards rubes.

>>> **u/sicutumbo** [+15]  (14 hours later)
>>> 
>>> For a number of your points, the results that Aerb have accomplished may be better, but I wouldn't say that the achievements are comparable. Intercontinental travel on Earth is accomplished through massive engines that push our knowledge of material science, aerodynamics, and mechanical engineering to their limits. These engines represent millions of man hours of testing, design, and analysis from some extremely smart people. On Aerb, some guy made these magic things one day, in a feat that no one can replicate, and now you can teleport. It's a similar story for vaccines, and space travel. The medical magic is more comparable to medical science, but I don't get the impression that they are siginificantly refining their knowledge of the field over time. Not to the same degree, at least.
>>> 
>>> Does Aerb have global (or whatever the adjective is when the world isn't a globe) communication at decent speeds? They have radio, but I can't remember a time when messages have been sent across the world.
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure what youre saying about your point on monarchies. Joon and co. are the only ones who have to deal with levels and stats.

>>>> **u/xachariah** [+13]  (15 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> They've got helicoptors and airplanes; they know about aerodynamics.  They just can't use any of that because of dragons.  
>>>> 
>>>> Aerb medical magic is post-singularity compared to Earth Medicine.  They can cure any disease that doesn't have magic backing it, instantly fix any wound, bring people back from being cut in half, etc..  A generic doctor can go get a bachelor's degree at the Aethenium of Bone, setup a practice, and heal people of mortal wounds for reasonable prices in an afternoon.  How much more advanced do you want?
>>>> 
>>>> Aerb has global communication fast enough for information about Amaryllis to every keystone on the planet.  They can bulk send materials, and news (being inorganic) gets instantly transported.  
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> 
>>>> Everyone in on Aerb has levels and stats, it's just that Joon can see the information on companions and he levels a lot faster.  'People' like Quills aren't just doing things that normal humans can do except better, they're performing genuinely superhuman acts like blocking bullets jedi-style.  High level characters are vastly more powerful than the common populace.  It's unlikely that 10,000 commoners with guns could deal with Aumann and his party.
>>>> 
>>>> On an idealistic level, a philosopher king who is superhumanly wise and confirmed to be moral good is absolutely better than a democracy.  Such a person can't exist in real life, but is fairly straightforward to find on Aerb. 
>>>> 
>>>> We know that wisdom and knowledge and cunning are stats, we can reasonably extrapolate that people have 60+ in a skill (because Fenn is amazing with a bow but isn't the best archer *ever*), and we know that takes at least 20+ in a stat to reach that skill.  Joon reached the point where his personality would diverge too much due to stats at 7 int/wis.  If you add it all up, this means there are people who are literally orders of magnitude more wise and intelligent than the general population.  Aerb also has ways to objectively measure morality.  Boom, philosopher king.
>>>> 
>>>> On a practical level, democracy only works because of the implicit threat of force of the populace.  A state can only survive if it has a monopoly on violence, and democracy ensures that the greatest possible force (the majority of the populace) is always on the side of the state.  This comes crashing down if the greatest force isn't the populace, but a handful of adventurers.

>>>>> **u/adgnatum** [+4]  (17 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe this is the PC/NPC distinction in this world:
>>>>> 
>>>>> NPCs have stats, PCs have a progression system and get balance-brokenly-strong by adding points with every level up.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe by PCs I really mean just Juniper (and Arthur)

>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [+4]  (16 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> > They've got helicoptors and airplanes; they know about aerodynamics. They just can't use any of that because of dragons.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I still think Dragons were added as an after thought, because the party needed to be on a train, cause story would not work on an airplane. Every chapter prior to train showed 0 evidence that dragons were somehow a problem with flight transportation\use, in fact helicopters\airplanes were used pretty freely. If dragons were in fact a consideration from the start, a lot of people and situations our heroes encountered should be the result of dumbest decisions that other people made.

>>>>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+21]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (2 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I really don't think that you like this story, and wish that you would go read something else rather than get annoyed by various elements that bother you. [I left you a comment explaining my stance on exposition](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/82v9go/rtwip_worth_the_candle_ch_8384_familiarline/dve5jgj/?context=3), and don't really want to communicate with you further.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dragons having a chilling effect on air travel was intended from the start; that passage was originally intended for ch 9, when they arrived at Silmar City, but I didn't like how it played with the pacing, given that it would have extended a "lull" in the text. You probably disagree; that's fine, but with due respect, I have my own opinions about how to write, and have disagreed with pretty much every "add more text" solution you've suggested, especially since the more I try to communicate, the more you find to criticize (which, again, I think extends from the fact that you simply don't like the story, and aren't of the mindset to enjoy it).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > If dragons were in fact a consideration from the start, a lot of people and situations our heroes encountered should be the result of dumbest decisions that other people made.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Your comments, especially lines like this, read as really rude and aggressive to me, as well as completely lacking in the principle of charity. Honestly, it really bums me out to get comments like this, and is one of the things that's made me stop reading or replying to comments as much.

>>>>>>> **u/nytelios** [+12]  (2 days later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I read your March report on Patreon ([add more donation tiers](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/8882ln/rt_worth_the_candle_ch_8687_headdown/dwjxz6l/)!) and I felt irrationally guilty when I got to the part about negative feedback since I'm a critical reader by nature. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> More seriously, every writer struggles with negative feedback, but in Ace's case, it seems generally unproductive or incompatible criticism that you can't act on and it's wasted effort trying to respond when you're hounded by (often derogatory in tone) complaints of the same gist. It's a downside that comes with having an online presence as a web-serial author - people will dislike it and express it. Book writers talk about developing a thick skin, but they don't really have to deal with a bad review until their work is finished and the distance is already there. It might be useful to not treat all criticism as equal(ly reliable) or meriting a personal defense.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you're invariably fixated on the need to respond, then it could be constructive to get RES (Reddit Enhancement Suite) and set those comments on ignore indefinitely until it loses its immediate demand on your attention. I think dealing with these comments is more distracting when they're directed to your latest chapter than if they refer to some previous arc. At any rate, substantive criticism will recur and crop up again from multiple readers.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I do dearly hope the negativity doesn't deter you from the comments because I've always enjoyed the responses and seeing how comments occasionally leave traces in subsequent chapters. Please don't ignore all the love!

>>>>>>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+6]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (5 days later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I don't have a ranking of readers, but if I did, you'd definitely be in the top five.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> A lot of the criticism I get stings, but is nonetheless helpful, or at least confirms my own understanding of what problems I've been running into. When I write I'm usually *really* close to the work, and unable to see how it looks from the outside; I've posted chapter thinking "ugh, that was garbage" only to have people say that they loved it, or I've been anxious about whether it was any good only to get great feedback. Sometimes stuff like "this scene didn't have clear enough or high enough stakes" hits me like an epiphany, and I instantly realize what the problem I'd been having was, I just hadn't been able to figure it out because I was mired in trying to use the wrong methods to fix the uneasy feeling I had.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ... and then there are other kinds of feedback that are just negative without offering anything, or which come down to disagreements about what the story should be, or which point at trade-offs that I decided to make and just say "hey, there was a downside to that trade-off", which I already knew. Or people who just say "kinda garbage, didn't get past ch 11, don't understand why people like this", and logically, this is someone for whom the story didn't work, but it still kind of hurts to get rejected like that, even when you weren't trying. And yeah, some people are just assholes; I've gotten PMs from people that just wanted to let me know how much they disliked me personally for writing a story they didn't like.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I think there's a limited amount of negativity that I want to let into my life, and that's why I've scaled back on reading and replying to comments, which I never did all that much to begin with. I don't want to dissuade people from giving feedback, even if it's negative, especially in a public place where it's meant for other readers or community members, not me. It's more the tone and form of some of that feedback that gets to me, which I'd rather not subject myself to.

>>>>>>>> **u/Inked_Cellist** [+1]  (7 days later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Do you have any suggestions for what other tiers could be?

>>>>>>>>> **u/nytelios** [+2]  (7 days later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Other thoughts, mostly addressed to /u/cthulhuraejepsen:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If earning enough money through Patreon to be self-employed is the goal, then CRJ/AW will need to commit to financially-minded managerial decisions for maximizing voluntary patrons. pirateaba has had the most explosive web serial earnings increase  that I know of ([interesting graph for tracking Patreon growth](https://graphtreon.com/creator/user?u=4240617)) since she made the decision to add that $5 tier last year and it's been steadily rising for two main reasons (as I see it): (1) she's written an amazing story that people like to read and (2) she's a writing machine who consistently puts out at least two ~10K word chapters a week. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> WtC started last year and its reader-base has also been growing. CRJ/AW has put out an average of ~7-12K words a week the past 2 months and I think that's more than enough to attract a regular readership. However, I think some factors are limiting its Patreon growth:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 1. AO3 is excellent for readers (e-books!!) and has nifty in-built features for authors (the mouseover character sheets are great). But as far as I can tell - since I don't have the statistics for how many new viewers find it by exploring the site, it's a poor venue for attracting more readers - at least the type of readers who are looking for and would be interested in an original litRPG like WtC (AO3 does have a reputation for fanfiction and smut). By comparison, posting on RoyalRoad gives stories a huge influx of readership if they're popular because the reader-base is specifically looking for these types of stories (arguably a trade-off at the cost of reader and feedback quality).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 2. Patreon tier amounts. WtC is currently at $1.9 per patron and it seems 101 of the 103 patrons are pledging the only option of $1. With higher tiers, there should be a marked increase in the average. And if low effort rewards like access to the latest chapter are thrown in, who knows? It does come with the mental shift of treating the story (at least partly) as a source of income, as opposed to the free personal story that WtC is written as.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 3. This one is more iffy. But creating a site for WtC (like the ever popular Wordpress) may be useful to exert some overt ownership over the story. A site tailored specifically for WtC makes the story seem like a product and WtC like a brand - much more marketable to potential Patreons. It's also a place to build a community around, as I see many programmers around who have offered a place to host or can contribute to polishing such a site. *Especially since finding that Patreon links are banned on AO3. Also, fanart!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Important/obvious caveat: one story isn't a sustainable long-term source of income. No matter how popular it gets, WtC appears to have a clear ending in mind; so unless it's deliberately prolonged into a decade-spanning epic, it will end as the main reason people pledge.

>>>>>>>>>> **u/Inked_Cellist** [+2]  (7 days later)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I will mention these suggestions to him - I am actually his wife and am going to try and take over some of these things, like Patreon managing and whatnot.  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I think more tiers are definitely an idea we will move on, although deciding on what rewards they come with will be tricky. I think possibly giving access to the next chapter a day before it goes on AO3 would be good, but he is concerned about segmenting his audience and the discussions.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> He has a website already and it wouldn't be too much work to add WtC to it, possibly as a subdomain so that it could have its own branding/theme.

>>>>>>>>>>> **u/nytelios** [+2]  (8 days later)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Plot twist! Your handle was vaguely familiar...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It's tricky for sure. I was carelessly throwing ideas geared towards increasing Patreon yields, but opportunity cost and (unforeseen) consequences are a thing. It's very convenient that the latest WtC discussion is centralized in the /r/rational threads, but I don't think segmenting the discussion would be a disincentive for readers because other stories also work with the similar problem of discussion dispersed across multiple forums. The /r/rational crowd and predicted majority of free readers that usually hang around for the discussion will still be there once the threads are posted. It would mainly hurt enthusiastic Patreon readers who are eager to discuss the fresh chapter but wouldn't have an outlet. That'd be another benefit of having your own site and hidden comment section ([example](https://wanderinginn.com/2018/04/17/4-29/)). Another possibility taken out of pirateaba's book is to create a Discord channel for discussing all of wales' works and give Patreons exclusive access to a live-discussion WtC-spoiler channel. Discord is also a way to plant a seed for building a community around alexanderwales as an author to support, rather than say, a writing hobbyist. Downside being another thing to keep track of. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think a one day advance is sufficient incentive for someone to subscribe to (for example) a $5 tier. It's the itch of wanting to know more, but having to wait several days, that likely drives people to commit for a month of hair-tearing-cliffhanger-free relief.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I just checked the website on mobile and it has a neat and very readable interface. I don't know how much trouble it would be to copy over the more complex bits of formatting (character sheet) and how it would look on mobile.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Another stray thought:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Crossposting on a site like [Royalroad](https://royalroadl.com/), even temporarily, may be a useful way to reach a new "market." I know crossposting is a terrible and evil chore, but fantasy/litRPG writers who later branch to publishing their finished work on Amazon have found a lot of success by posting their "draft" version on RRL. It's a free way to get (usually generic) feedback and reach a large audience at the cost of crossposting annoyance and possibly a hit to respectability for posting on a site of mostly amateur writers.

>>>>>>>>>>>> **u/Inked_Cellist** [+1]  (a month later)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, we added a couple more tiers - now we wait and see if anyone goes for them!

>>>>>>>>>>>>> **u/nytelios** [+2]  (a month later)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aha those $10+ tiers are pure silliness. I guess the official announcement via reddit thread is forthcoming. I'm still mildly pessimistic about how motivating the 24 hr. headstart is, but I like the stretch goals! Excitedly hoping the community starts throwing wallets to reach $800.

>>>>>>>>> **u/nytelios** [+1]  (7 days later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Digging around, here's a response from the author on higher tiers:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> > The problem with higher tiers is that I don't really have much more to give. I'm actually not quite writing as fast as I can, given that I still watch television and read books, and occasionally pump a few thousand words (or a half hour of editing) into other projects, but I really don't want to suffer burnout, nor promise that some of the other works I have brewing will come to fruition.
>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>> > I suppose that I could offer acknowledgements or cameos or something. Actually, probably not cameos given that I have a problem with money dictating art, even in ways that don't quite matter to the text itself.
>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>> > I'll have to take a look at what other people are doing, I guess. Let me know if you have any suggestions.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> And my response:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> > I saw your front page post saying you're not offering goals; I didn't mean higher tiers with rewards but adding extra tiers as a kind of decision simplicity (a bit late but I just checked and patrons can write-in a higher pledge amount). The higher tiers don't strictly need to come with progressively better rewards (e.g. [pirateaba](https://www.patreon.com/user?u=4240617) of The Wandering Inn).
>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>> > Or work with creative rewards. I'm thinking something like the pastebin you linked of one of your past campaigns. Presumably you have a huge archive of those and if they're not private or too spoilery for WtC, worldbuilding geeks, aspiring DMs and such might appreciate them. Tangentially, I've been feeling it's a shame WtC doesn't have a banner on topwebfiction despite being in the top 15. Perhaps there could be a tier where some of the money can go to commissioning art or book covers and those patrons can vote on...whatever. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> By decision simplicity, I meant something along the same lines as [the post I linked](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/8882ln/rt_worth_the_candle_ch_8687_headdown/dwjxz6l/). There are surely patrons who would pledge more, but one tier gives the illusion of one choice. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I really like pirateaba's system of funneling patrons to the "reasonable" tier of $5 and offering them the satisfying reward of reading one chapter early (and voting on side stories). It's the only tier with a reward, and anything higher is just the generosity of patrons who want to give more (and a snazzy Discord channel tier). Practically no additional effort besides setting up a place for Patrons to access the latest chapter and it's much more attractive as a purchase perk if updates are frequent/consistent.

>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [-4]  (2 days later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> >>If dragons were in fact a consideration from the start, a lot of people and situations our heroes encountered should be the result of dumbest decisions that other people made.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> >Your comments, especially lines like this, read as really rude and aggressive to me, as well as completely lacking in the principle of charity.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Huh, i was talking about people in the story aka government and ruling class being dumb.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 1. Larkspur using 5 helicopters to chase people when he knows dragons are a thing was dumb and desperate in my opinion.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2. Using airplanes to drop prisoners while every flight is valuable and needs to be negotiated for is a dumb move from the ruling party.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 3. Having multiple worst accidents when as you said "dragons only crash airships as last resort" is incompetence and stupidity from people that made those decisions.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I never tried to insult you personally or say that you are incompetent or dumb, even if i hated the story i would not do that. You do great work writing and creating your world. But i notice problems that should not really be problems, but they are because there are a lot of blanket statements about the world, that get disproved\dropped when it's convenient for the story.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It's the exact problem that we are having here. You perceived me saying "it's dumb" as a personal attack when in fact it wasn't like that. I see those "revelations about the world" as spur of the moment changes sometimes, because you write weekly and often more than one chapter, so it's reasonable that you can forget things.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> > I left you a comment explaining my stance on exposition
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think i mentioned it in that thread, but here it is again. Not describing the whole world at once is fine. Text upon text would be boring and pointless. But Juniper was obseessed with helicopters for a good amount of chapters and "you can't fly them cause dragons" was never a counter point and it would only take 1 sentence. Plus dragons appear only in chapter 82 in a small paragraph, that is easy to forget and to me it reads like a justification for using a train that didn't need to be there.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I dislike elements of the story and especially stuff i see as unwarranted inconsistencies, especially when they crop up, but i like the overall story. My problem is some things are a heavy focus and crux of the plot for a group of chapters, but when they get dropped, forgotten or completely invalidated by introduction of a magical item and when cycle begins anew with a different thing. It is pretty much D&D adventure, but the problem is the world is consistence and power spikes\drops are that more noticeable for me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> >You probably disagree; that's fine, but with due respect, I have my own opinions about how to write, and have disagreed with pretty much every "add more text" solution you've suggested, especially since the more I try to communicate, the more you find to criticize
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That's fine, but my point often is don't add that text, don't use blanket statements, because when you need to work them in for the whole world or all balance crumbles or you set limiters that don't feel natural in the next story arc. Character seem to bounce from ultimate power and a lot of solutions, to no power and all the solutions.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is me being arrogant, but you could have easily said "Dragons are a thing in this particular region, not all of the Aerb., or here is 1 especially active dragon resides" have Juniper joke about " I told you we should have stolen that helicopter, it would be so much easier to fly".  But the problem is now "dragons are not acknowledged when Juniper talks about helicopter and narrative of him piloting one", "Him wanting a helicopter is not mentioned when they would benefit from flying in one".
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> > I don't want to write "Mary and Juniper sit in a room while he gets things explained to him for several days"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes you are right in not doing so, but one of my "gripes" was  in the chapter there Juniper and Mary literally set down and talked in a room for the whole duration of it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Edit: I have a perfect analogy about how i feel about dragons. You know when shows introduce brother\daughter\lost cousin of the main character and try to make it look like he was a thing all along. That's how i felt with their sudden and brief appearance.

>>>>>>>> **u/dalitt** [+9]  (2 days later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> FWIW, your comments come off as super aggressive to me as well. (I think I’ve commented to this effect in the past.) Just...try to be nicer, maybe?

>>>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [-2]  (2 days later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Nicer to who and how should have i've been nicer in this case. I wasn't even talking to him or even mentioning him. I was specifically discussing how dragons seem to pop out of nowhere and that government seems dumb wasting their resources on pointless stuff.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> My whole take on the government was based on your comment.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> >One pathology of government is that there is no limit on how cruel or absurd (or even inconvenient to the state) punishments can be — politicians can almost always gin up some support by suggesting ever crueler and more labyrinthine penalties. Anglecynn has a weird system of government, but I can imagine someone suggesting the drops in the Risen Lands as part of a “Tough on Crime” campaign.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Me saying there are flaws or asking if other people see them as flaws is not a personal attack against anybody.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> All that aside. Even famous meme of flying on eagles is explained in LoTR by enemy also having flying units and constant mention of dragons long before they even needed that.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 1. Story starts with him and presumable the princess of said government dropped from a plane. She never talks about dragons.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 2. Anuman hovers in a helicopter and Juniper mention being a pilot. Again no mention of dragons.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 3. Five attack choppers chase them, Junipers wants to take one as a trophy. No one conunterpoints it with - well dragons.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 4. Dragon mentioned in Uthers assistant\love interest Morana(man that's an unfortunate name) "Three months in, she was skinned alive by a dragon" No one mentiones theri alliance
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 5. First real and only mention of dragons in bulk is that small paragraph about (we can't fly so let's take the train).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> My point is there was 0 establishment to that and it didn't even need to be there. I noticed it not because i "hate the story" or specifically focused on air politics, i noticed it because it felt forced and Juniper was were much focused on flying before.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I don't try to be an asshole and hate on anyone. But can you tell me with a straight face that reveal of Dragons own the skies doesn't seem out of nowhere and that all of the major villains just happen to be lucky and own flying vehicles with no one ever caring about that?

>>>>>>>>>> **u/nytelios** [+7]  (2 days later)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The thing is you're nitpicking every little detail. You don't consider alternative explanations, narrative convenience or even the law of parsimony. When people respond to your long-winded critiques, I might be misremembering but I don't believe you ever acknowledge their points but instead repackage your criticism, often into something else that annoys you.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> You're not hating on anyone and I even admire your investment into the story, but to a writer and others, that stubbornness and attitude of "this is wrong, that is wrong" easily comes across as being an asshole.

>>>>>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [+1]  (2 days later)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> To me this are not really little details they are world building. I get your point and yes most of my points stayed true to me, but people raised good counter points or provided another perspectives with which i agree.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> This one in particular is still stand out to me, exactly for the reason of it being so noticeable.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> People tried to deconstruct how water would work on Aerb, i tried to understand how exactly Dragons would work.

>>>>>>>>>>>> **u/nytelios** [+5]  (3 days later)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> There's a difference between your perception of missing world-building (subjective) and an actual world-building hole (objective). The relevance of the dragon union has never cropped up until that segment explaining why train travel is more common than air travel. In all of your examples, there is no narrative reason to mention the dragon union without going off into a world-building tangent. There's also a difference between discussing/deconstructing the consequences of a dragon confederacy with readers versus calling the dragons an "afterthought" like the author just half-assed their existence into Aerb.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Why would Mary have any reason to tell a complete stranger about dragons? "Hey stranger, don't you think it's weird that they flew us here in an airplane? Want to hear about dragons while we prepare our getaway?"
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2-3) Helicopter travel over short distances != long distance air travel over dragons' territory. Alternatively, "hey we're in an emergency right now, but what's really important is the remote risk of dragons swooping down on these copters!"
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4)  "Morana was skinned by a dragon and now's a good time to tell you about the Draconic Confederacy since the dragons' chilling effect on air travel is directly relevant to our talk about Uther and narratives right now."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) Compare to ch. 82. "Hey we're traveling by train. Why are we using trains when Aerb aerodynamics isn't far behind Earth? Is this a good time to talk about dragons and their influence on air travel?"
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm being sarcastic, but as I said above, it's useful to think about "alternative explanations, narrative convenience or even the law of parsimony" and save yourself/the author from inanity.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [+2]  (3 days later)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably i should preface all of my stuff with this is one of the better stories i read and i was super glad that i found it and maybe post less, since it stresses him out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe in alternative explanations. Really, amount of my responses made it seem like it's a bigger deal than it is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >In all of your examples, there is no narrative reason to mention the dragon union without going off into a world-building tangent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, this would be true, but it's explained in a short 6 sentence paragraph that could have been anywhere. It feels like and late addition doesn't mean it is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If i just suddenly said, well, actually i wrote a similar, but total different story in my days, but i wasn't satisfied with it, so that's why i'm so critical - you would probably react with - You wrote paragraph upon paragraph of complains and questions and you only mentions this now, frankly seems like a stretch. - **This is just an example by the way, i never wrote a similar or any kind of story that i can remember**
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't even notice it if it wasn't in focus so much. I noticed it because of this sentences.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >I was supposed to fly that helicopter. Narrative convention dictates that I was supposed to fly that helicopter, I have a fucking very specific skill in my backstory, mentioned to both of you, and what the hell, I don’t get to fly the helicopter? This is garbage. There wasn’t even a fight.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >Also, there was no doubt in my mind that we were going to have to fight a dragon at some point, but that thankfully seemed like it was going to be a long time coming.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >4) "Morana was skinned by a dragon and now's a good time to tell you about the Draconic Confederacy since the dragons' chilling effect on air travel is directly relevant to our talk about Uther and narratives right now."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, that's exactly one exception of the word dragon being used when talking about the world of Aerb. I fact 5-6 aka 1/3rd of the word "dragon" used is in that small paragraph.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >There's a difference between your perception of missing world-building (subjective) and an actual world-building hole (objective)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, my other perspective is, a lot of of the world building, character powers and item powers placement in the story is rather unfortunate, so it seems like it's too conveniently\inconveniently placed. I still think the problem is the story takes routes in the D&D adventure so it comes with it's strengths (building on the fly, changeability, adaptability) and it's weaknesses (weak connections between places, imbalance of powers that is hard to address, ways of solving conflict)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **u/nytelios** [+7]  (3 days later)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's an empty preface when the rest are complaints. Maybe it's best to come to terms with the fact that the actual story won't be tailored to your idealized vision of how this story should be. I don't recall you ever entertaining alternative explanations - your posts are unfailingly railroading your list of gripes (occasionally organized like a backseat-writing agenda). And forget being an author- I'm only a reader and it's been frustratingly tedious explaining why your points are usually your personal opinion or reading of the text - which is hard when you're always presenting them with such conviction/aggression, like you can't possibly be wrong (your post to CRJ above was almost unbelievably arrogant and condescending if you didn't already have a track record for that tone). 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't quite follow the rest of your post since most of it is quite rambling, but you predictably replied like I described:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > When people respond to your long-winded critiques, I might be misremembering but I don't believe you ever acknowledge their points but instead repackage your criticism, often into something else that annoys you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I decisively pointed out why your points were silly and you twist it to why you think telling a story using a D&D frame has weaknesses. Cue eyeroll. Relax, get off the backseat-writing high horse, and enjoy the story for what it is.

>>>>>>>>>> **u/dalitt** [+2]  (2 days later)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Yes. This didn’t bother me even slightly, even after reading several of your comments on the issue.

>>>>>>>>>> **u/RMcD94** [+1]  (19 days later)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I never considered your points before and think that a critical eye is an invaluable tool in examining works and something lacking in the comment threads.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I think people automatically assume criticism is hostile and read into your tones things that aren't there.

>>>>>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+4]  *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (5 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi /u/Ace_Kuper.  Your opinion here is pretty obvious; and you're entitled to have it and to explain it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> However, we also have a rule "Keep /r/rational pleasant (and on-topic)", and the extent of your criticism is pushing up against that line.  Why not just accept that other people will enjoy stuff that you don't like, and skip over it?  There's just no need for an argument and nothing at stake here except for the community :)

>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [+0]  (5 days later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is kinda funny, but sure. I already said something similar about not posting stuff in my comments below. I honestly can understand that people can get upset, but really someone reported me for actual on topic discussion that happened here? I thought this places was all about deconstruction and discussion, maybe i did go overboard, but really i didn't insult any one and didn't even intended to do so.

>>>>>>>> **u/nytelios** [+2]  (6 days later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bit wry that someone would complain about you complaining... though reporting dissenting opinions isn't helpful because the takeaway isn't that your criticism should be silenced. /r/rational is all about (controversial) deconstruction and discussion, but we're only people here - not machines! Even when we're arguing, [communication etiquette](https://thoughtcatalog.com/marzena-bielecka/2015/01/the-art-of-effective-communication-how-to-argue-mindfully/) can really make a difference in how other people perceive our points since nobody likes being patronized.

>>>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [+1]  (6 days later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Since this unrelated i guess i can post here and it would be fine.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In some of my posts i mention that i'm trying to improve. That's the reasoning to post here in the first place. It's really hard to discern tone on the internet. That's why i'm always baffled by the fact that people think i'm making fun of them or being condescending.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I write my long essay like paragraph for that exact to avoid that confusion, so that my points are explained in detail and reason for their existence is provided to the best of my effort. The worst tone i intend to convey is "Really, i don't see it like that" or "Sure, but i don't buy this explanation" or "I'm kinda doubtful". I want it to be "sassy" at worst.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  I fully admit that my points especially in the early posts are kinda of a structural mess, they are probably full of typos and read like a direct mind transmission on to paper. That's why i tried to structure them more, cause someone gave that advice. Next step was to limit  the number of points i bring up.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  I can't really do anything about the complaint of "you act like you are right". Well, that's why i try to be detailed as to why i believe in what i believe and if i didn't think it was true to some extent why would i bother talking about it in the first place. (see already a repeat of my earlier point) I change my opinion on some stuff or somewhat, but it can't be a straight 180, otherwise i didn't have that opinion in the first place and was posting to only pointlessly say "this is bad or this is good". I'm not going to 100% agree with people, but neither should they. Thanks to some feedback i started organizing my posts somewhat better, even test posting them somewhere else to see how the formatting is, they are still a mess, but i'm slightly better at it.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Funny enough i found another, this time pretty small question to ask people about, but i will not do that, cause i promised to not ruin stuff for others. Most of my questions carried intent of "How do improve if i was an author or people i interact with would do it in their work", because i think a lot stuff in this story is world prime material for munchkinry and i would not want it to exist in those obvious ways, cause it breaks immersion in some aspects. This is the selfish aspect of my posts.

>>>>>>>>>> **u/I_Probably_Think** [+1]  (9 days later)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I’m glad that you are trying to improve your interactions and communications. I hope that you reach (and pass!) a point where your posts become well-received instead if causing people frustration, but would like to point out that doing so definitely will take introspection. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Separetely, I hope to change your mind on the following (and though it might be humorously self-referential, I intend it as a serious point: you seem to think that it is futile to fully change your mind when presented with conflicting arguments
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> >  I change my opinion on some stuff or somewhat, but it can't be a straight 180, otherwise i didn't have that opinion in the first place
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> It is rational to update your beliefs in the face of new evidence! Sure, many things are a matter of personal preference (and I admit that maybe those are the only matters you were speaking of, here), but being willing and able to change your opinions in a way that invalidates your previous ones can be highly valuable and respected, depending on the circumstances!

>>>>>> **u/munkeegutz** [+3]  (a day later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Could also be a question of altitude.  Long distance air travel is most efficient at high attitudes where the air is thinner, minimizing air drag.  The dragons could be more prone to attacking high things

>>>>>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+10]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (a day later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It's not really that dragons attack. You can run the numbers; there are five hundred dragons, and the surface area of Aerb is ten times that of Earth, which means that it's like fifty dragons holding the entirety of Earth's airspace. Each would be responsible for about four million square miles, or about a square about two thousand miles to a side.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The *individual* odds of an aircraft being attacked by a dragon are, therefore, low, so it's not really a "don't fly or you will be struck from the air by a dragon" type of thing, it's more "an aircraft needs to fly pretty much every day, full of passengers, for three years, in order to pay for itself, which means 13,000 hours in the air before it's turning a profit. If the odds of a dragon attack are greater than 1/13,000 per hour, then planes are unlikely to make a profit. (And obviously a plane crash isn't just a matter of not being able to make a profit on a plane anymore, there are significant expenses involved in clean-up and liability, which can be handled by insurance schemes, but almost increase time-to-payoff for someone building or buying an airplane for commercial travel.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But the dragons *don't* really attack, they have a regulatory agency that constricts air travel to within certain quotas, times, and places, with various penalties for infraction going all the way up to "a dragon notices and destroys the plane and everyone onboard" (though it's more "one of the reporting apparatuses notices and informs a dragon" than a dragon actually noticing). All of that results in a chilling effect on aviation -- but not an actual *halt* to aviation.

>>>>>>>> **u/munkeegutz** [+5]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hmm this is a very good explanation- I had not considered simply how few dragons were around.  It also justifies the use of helicopters in the two cases seen.  But why would they do the trial by adversity at the risen lands, since there is no little value there, compared to simple execution?  After all, if only one in 100 people make it back, the Host isn't getting much value out of the sure drops.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Naturally, this isn't as much of a concern if dragons need to take substantial amounts of time arriving to an illegal flight- short, unscheduled flights will be back on the ground before a dragon can chase them down, and presumably ground based defense can take a dragon down at some level

>>>>>>>>> **u/dalitt** [+5]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> One pathology of government is that there is no limit on how cruel or absurd (or even inconvenient to the state) punishments can be — politicians can almost always gin up some support by suggesting ever crueler and more labyrinthine penalties.  Anglecynn has a weird system of government, but I can imagine someone suggesting the drops in the Risen Lands as part of a “Tough on Crime” campaign.

>>>>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [-1]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to respond with something about using teleportation and it kinda raised more questions.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 1. How did the retrieval group Fenn was part of got into the zone?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 2. If teleportation key is so valuable why not send a group via teleport and let them get out via retrieved teleport, worst case scenario they have to wait 2 hours of recharge on their own teleport. You may say it's not practical cause you need a teleportation anchor or someone who was there, but somehow increasing the zombie population via prisoners and planes is more practical(insane) at the same time.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I still think dragons explanation is kinda flimsy and it's because it's to specific so it works when it needs to, but at the same time conveniently to vague and hard to enforce so it gets ignored.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> There was 5 helicopters chasing the party that took off from a pretty populated area. You might say it was prince being desperate, but why exactly there were 5 ready to fly helicopters in that area and no one even said "Boy, Larkspur and goverment is gonna get a nice scolding from dragons".
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> >But the dragons don't really attack, they have a regulatory agency that constricts air travel to within certain quotas, times, and places, with various penalties for infraction going all the way up to "a dragon notices and destroys the plane and everyone onboard"
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Also, this doesn't really explain anything, because it seems  there are no "various penalties" just straight up drop the plane type of deal. How incompetent would you need to be to cause multiple "worst disasters"
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> >some of the worst disasters in Aerbian aviation history were caused by dragons going after improperly cleared flights, which was obviously the kind of thing that had a chilling effect on passenger air travel.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I only know noticed how funny the next sentence is in retrospect.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> >Also, there was no doubt in my mind that we were going to have to fight a dragon at some point, but that thankfully seemed like it was going to be a long time coming.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Because of this
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> >I was supposed to fly that helicopter. Narrative convention dictates that I was supposed to fly that helicopter, I have a fucking very specific skill in my backstory, mentioned to both of you, and what the hell, I don’t get to fly the helicopter? This is garbage. There wasn’t even a fight.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Would be nice of both of those inevitabilities were introduced at the same time. Again i have a problem believing dragons were a consideration from the start, because they appear 60 chapters after that "destined to fly a helicopter" speech.

>>>>>>>>>>> **u/dalitt** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I think you replied to the wrong comment?

>>>>>>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah i understand how it would seem like it, i did want to reply to you with my initial comment, but i added stuff. My point partially was that why does government use planes when they gain nothing from it, while they can use teleport and get rid of the prisoners and reclaim territory,lost artifacts and much more.

>>>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [-1]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I did pretty much consider that, that's why it works and doesn't work in pretty convenient places.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> [A more detailed response, that is one comment lower, so that i don't just copy it](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/8bhjwe/rtwip_worth_the_candle_ch_8889_solitudeface/dxa1efc/)

>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [+2]  (a day later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sure, only no one even mentioned the Dragons when chapter upon chapter Juniper talked about him knowing how to fly a helicopter and wanted to take one as a trophy, no matter how absurd that was.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Also, the story opens up with our hero dropping from a plane. Why would government waste precious "negotiate with dragons for a long time to fly anything" chance to dispose of criminals for little to no gain? It was kinda stretching the believability on it's own, but revealing dragons 80 chapters in only made me question every instance of the flight tech used in the series.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Edit: There are other mechanics\aspect that appear as a problem\challenge\motivation when get dropped as conveniently as they were introduced. Is more the case of i see how the world is build as we see it, which is not a problem on itself, but aspect start to contradict each other so the plot could progress or the party finds a macguffin that circumvents very specific thing that was the crux of the previous couple of chapters. I'm reluctantly wait for one of those things to become way to noticeable and hope it doesn't happen. For me train chapter was very obviously written the way it was because it would not work otherwise.

>>>>>>>> **u/Makin-** [+3]  *homestuck ratfic, you can do it* (a day later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I still think the criminal drop has more of a meaning to it and we just haven't found out its true goal yet.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> However, I agree with you that the dragons at least *seem* an afterthought. Can't say for sure if the author just didn't want to reveal it until they really had the chance to fly.

>>>>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [+0]  (a day later)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Juniper had chance to fly. Amarilys was flying with the Anuman, they were chased by 5-6 helicopters. The amount of times and technology used is my problem with that. Also, he could have easily said "Dragons are a problem in this particular part of the world", but blanket statement of they are a huge problem for this world that is 10(?) times bigger than Earth, while dragon population is extremely low makes me question it.

>>>>> **u/PM_ME_OS_DESIGN** [+1]  (4 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> >  How much more advanced do you want?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cure aging.

>>>>>> **u/xachariah** [+1]  (4 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm reasonably sure that they've got that with soul magic.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Fel Seed and most of the exclusion zones seem to be immortal.  And by theory, patterning your body after someone younger should work easily.

>>>> **u/RMcD94** [+2]  (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> Planal presumably

>>>>> **u/WarningInsanityBelow** [+2]  (3 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> its hexal since their world is a hexagon which keeps repeating itself to tile the infinite plane (stated in the 5th bullet point in [chapter 19](https://archiveofourown.org/works/11478249/chapters/26627424))

>> **u/WalterTFD** [+8]  (7 hours later)
>> 
>> And all of this...with no magic.

> **u/loonyphoenix** [+21]  (7 hours later)
> 
> Wait, why did they send Mary in alone, again? That seems pretty insane. She might be badass enough to survive total isolation for 9 months, but there's no need to with 3 potential companions that can switch from time to time. The justifications seemed... Flimsy.

>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+17]  *We are the Empire.* (11 hours later)
>> 
>> Yeah, psychological stress aside, there are so many medical complications that could happen where having a second person in there could save Mary's life

>> **u/ceegheim** [+14]  (8 hours later)
>> 
>> Agree. No reason not to send Juniper is, for example, or Val (use teleportation key to fetch her, costing about 2 hours of real-time).
>> 
>> Also, I don't understand why Mary is not going for weekly check-ups: Once a week, come out for half an hour of conversation, to help keep her sane. I mean, they are not under the kind of time pressure where 3 extra days make trouble.

>>> **u/xachariah** [+15]  (14 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Juniper would be an interpersonal issue.  
>>> Mary still wants to get with Joon but she's given up, and Joon still thinks she's the most attractive woman he's ever seen.  Several months of time spent together, cut off from the world, with perfect birth control already applied... that's a recipe for disaster if Joon values his relationship with Fenn. 
>>> 
>>> Val is also an interpersonal problem.  
>>> Mary is less prejudiced to her than she was before and seems to have a good relationship with her now, but Val is still a terrifying boogeyman.  I don't see anyone but Joon willingly spending a month with her as solitary company.

>>>> **u/t3tsubo** [+5]  (22 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> >Mary still wants to get with Joon 
>>>> 
>>>> Huh? I thought she never did but was simply prepared to in order to stay relevant if she didn't get symbiosis.

>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [+0]  (15 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> > Several months of time spent together, cut off from the world, with perfect birth control already applied... that's a recipe for disaster if Joon values his relationship with Fenn.
>>>> 
>>>> If Joon in any way a decent human being, which this assumes he is not (i agree to an extent)this would not be a problem in the first place.
>>>> 
>>>> Plus your points comletely ignore this
>>>> 
>>>> >I don't understand why Mary is not going for weekly check-ups: Once a week, come out for half an hour of conversation, to help keep her sane. I mean, they are not under the kind of time pressure where 3 extra days make trouble.

>>>>> **u/xachariah** [+16]  (16 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> >If Joon in any way a decent human being, which this assumes he is not (i agree to an extent)this would not be a problem in the first place.
>>>>> 
>>>>> When you're at a distance reading a story, you can just say "don't give in to temptation" and then the hero won't.  People who want their relationships to last shouldn't put themselves in situations where there's any possibility of trouble.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Who's your favorite pornstar?  Can you seriously say you could get locked in a room with her for a month of her desperately wanting you, and nobody would know what happens in there except you, and you wouldn't do anything?  Even if you're married, I'm not buying it.  Staying faithful means not entering that room in the first place.
>>>>> 
>>>>> >weekly check-ups
>>>>> 
>>>>> At maximum speed, they could be out in 5 hours instead of 3 days.  They're still at the mercy of the crazy murder castle.  And while 5 hours is plenty of time for it to kill them, 3 days is tempting fate.

>>>>>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+9]  *We are the Empire.* (20 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > Who's your favorite pornstar? Can you seriously say you could get locked in a room with her for a month of her desperately wanting you, and nobody would know what happens in there except you, and you wouldn't do anything?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ... Yes?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Like, maybe this is me being naive, but... I don't think doing the right thing is *that* hard? Like, this isn't an ambiguous situation where the right thing to do is complicated. You just have to *not* put your tongue / fingers / other organs in the lady you're spending time with, for a month.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is like if someone asked "Imagine you're spending a month in a closed room, with a pile of cocaine. Do you really think it's possible you'd never, ever touch it for the whole month?". I can imagine people with drug antecedents might give in, but you don't need monk-levels of self-control to... like, not do the stupid thing.

>>>>>>> **u/awesomeideas** [+7]  *Dai stiho, cousin.* (22 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What if the coc**ai**ne was really, really smart and could talk?

>>>>>>>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+5]  *We are the Empire.* (22 hours later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I still think I wouldn't put my genitals in it.

>>>>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+5]  *Carbon-based biped* (a day later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> >  I can imagine people with drug antecedents might give in
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well, pretty much every male has hormones that create a similar situation. Joon already finds her ridiculously attractive.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I wouldn't *guarantee* anything happening, but I agree with /u/xachariah that it's creating a huge unnecessary temptation.

>>>>>>>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+4]  *We are the Empire.* (a day later)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Note that, if nothing else, there'd be nothing stopping June from using essentialism to lower his own attraction to women or whatever.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That aside, I think "unnecessary" isn't accurate when the alternative is letting Mary stay alone or with the same person in a small room for 9 months.

>>>>>>> **u/RMcD94** [+2]  (2 days later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Why on earth wouldn't you?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When else are you going to get to take cocaine and also be in the best rehab ever

>>>>>>> **u/loonyphoenix** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I agree. Mary might be able to seduce Joon if she really put her mind to it in this situation, but I don't think she'll be actively trying to. I think the two of them would be reasonable enough to see that trying anything like that is bound to have serious complications.

>>>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [-2]  (16 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> >Can you seriously say you could get locked in a room with her for a month of her desperately wanting you, and nobody would know what happens in there except you, and you wouldn't do anything? Even if you're married, I'm not buying it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Well, i'm kinda older than Juniper and currently single, so i wouldn't really care. I would say you have a point, but when i'm in a relationship and someone looking hot and being close is enough for me to cheat, i might as well end that relationship, cause it's going nowhere. Plus, unlike Joon i have multiple look only types that i would consider gorgeous and even when personality is a factor after some time even if the girl looks like she is my dream. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Considering Joon spent enough time with Mary already she should know better or stop lying to himself. Like every past insert paints him as caring about Tiff or girls being more than just cute dolls, but every interaction on Aerb is about "Boy she is so hot and that one is so hot too", i'm exaggerating, but he talks about how girls that he interacts with "are hot" too much.

>>>>>>> **u/xartab** [+2]  (7 days later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> > Like every past insert paints him as caring about Tiff or girls being more than just cute dolls, but every interaction on Aerb is about "Boy she is so hot and that one is so hot too", i'm exaggerating, but he talks about how girls that he interacts with "are hot" too much.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I don't think that's true. He has, like most adolescent males, a part of his brain that's constantly nudging him to mate with attractive exemplars of the female sex, constantly reminding him that they're there (and even more, accessible if he just made the effort, or not even that in the case of Val), and constantly putting on the top of his mind their attractiveness. Despite this, Joon puts in the effort to "behave honourably", focus on the things that the group has to manage, maximise utility for the whole of Aerb, and think of his female companions like very complex people rather than the mere objects of his desire.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The only peculiarity being that the author doesn't care to mask the sexual aspect of the human experience, and I'm completely down with that.

>> **u/Law_Student** [+7]  (9 hours later)
>> 
>> She does at least have an unlimited supply of Earth reading material.

>>> **u/the_steroider** [+2]  *Trascending Humanity* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> And electronics components.

>>>> **u/Law_Student** [+2]  (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe she'll come out with a soul powered electrical generator and who knows what else, yes.

>> **u/WalterTFD** [+7]  (7 hours later)
>> 
>> I think the idea is that they kind of need Grak's vision out here to help with Zoran/Tiff, and ditto for Juniper, and they wisely realized that Fenn couldn't cope with the iso cube.

>>> **u/loonyphoenix** [+8]  (7 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Like I said, those juatifications seem flimsy. I'm not sure what to say about Fenn -- is total isolation really better than being cooped up with her? That seems like a caricature of Fenn rather than real Fenn, and you shouldn't make serious decisions like that because of a joke. But even taking it for a given that it's a bad idea, that still leaves Joon and Grak to alternate. Still enough time to talk to Zona, and no nead to inflict isolation torture on a friend.

>>>> **u/WalterTFD** [+14]  (7 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> I mean, they are checking on her after a month, if she isn't coping well they can switch stuff up.

>>>>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+2]  *We are the Empire.* (20 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> A month is a long time to be stuck alone in a small cabin with barely enough room to walk, but yeah.

>>>>> **u/Makin-** [+1]  *homestuck ratfic, you can do it* (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is what I've been thinking about all these nitpicks. The first month is a trial run, and she can get out at any time if there are any problems. There's not much need to worry right now, worry when she *doesn't want* to get out.

>>>> **u/Ace_Kuper** [-1]  (15 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> > That seems like a caricature of Fenn rather than real Fenn, and you shouldn't make serious decisions like that because of a joke.
>>>> 
>>>> Did she stop being a joke in this last chapters? Cause at some point all of her character, insecurities and personality turned into "i'm horny, we are having sex, joking about sex, Juniper thinking she is cute" and it was like that for a while now.

>> **u/akaltyn** [+5]  (2 days later)
>> 
>> My interpretation was that Mary was pretty deliberately shooting down teh reasons and railroading them into letting her go in alone. Not exactly sure why, maybe she has plans for hosw to spend the time that she doesn't want the others involved in (build a magitech superweapon?) or maybe she just wants a break from them. She also has a bit of a martyr/trlevance complex as we saw earlier on when she decided to be the one pregnant with the baby

>>> **u/Kilbourne** [+2]  (4 days later)
>>> 
>>> Definite martyr / independence habits.

> **u/WalterTFD** [+19]  (an hour later)
> 
> Grak, the one handed Dwarf, is also a midwife's assistant of exceptional experience.  I did not see that coming.
> 
> Also, good call on 'Never Put Fenn in the Iso Cube'.

> **u/WarningInsanityBelow** [+16]  (9 hours later)
> 
> Mary just became the DnD equivalent of a weakly superhuman AI, she can:
> 
> * do a months worth of thinking in 45 minutes
> 
> * has access to Earths total knowledge
> 
> * create technology in minutes that would take the rest of the world decades to invent
> 
> She even has several handy targets to AI box, including Zona, her party or the DM (by designing the perfect plot derailment).

>> **u/erwgv3g34** [+4]  (a day later)
>> 
>> See ["The Hyperbolic Time Chamber as Brain Emulation Analogy"](https://www.gwern.net/Hyperbolic-Time-Chamber) by Gwern Branwen.

> **u/Sparkwitch** [+16]  (13 hours later)
> 
> Putting pieces together. Most of what we get about Tiff comes from [chapter 42](https://archiveofourown.org/works/11478249/chapters/27769455):
> >“I did [like Arthur],” said Tiff. “And I knew that he liked me. I kept waiting for him to ask me out or even just confess to me, but months and months went by and he never did, and then my interest started to fade because there was this other handsome boy, so what was I supposed to do?”
> 
> [...]
> 
> >“Yeah, I am [an asshole],” said Reimer, rubbing his forearm. “This difference between the two of us is that I know I’m an asshole, and you prance around like you were his bestest friend in the whole world. You and Tiff could have told him, he’d have been upset but at least it would have spared him being made a fool of. He died a virgin, pining after her, and you were just laughing behind his back about what a moron he was.”
> 
> So Arthur either didn't know or had only guessed about Tiff and Joon when he died, and she probably got the tattoo as a commemorative thing. Zona is Arthur's memory of Tiff, not Joon's. That's why she's different, Arthur didn't know her so well. She's also a locally omnipotent magical sentience that's been murdering people for centuries... which might tend to alter one's personality.

>> **u/adgnatum** [+6]  (17 hours later)
>> 
>> When you put it that way, I can almost see chapter 89 as a hint to an inference about (Uther-era) Zona:
>> 
>> Character|_
>> :--|:--       
>> Tiff|Interested in Arthur, gets no response, gets attention from Juniper
>> Zona|Relationship with Arthur, he does a lot of adventuring, gets attention from ???

>>> **u/Nimelennar** [+5]  (22 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Are you saying that, with Arthur gone, she may have gotten Lanced a lot?

> **u/munkeegutz** [+24]  (3 hours later)
> 
> Various thoughts- (warning - I'm a munchkin)
> 
> Sounds like Kuum Doona is not the best permanent base after all.  "Tiff" seems unstable at best.  If they could win her over it would be OK, but I think Amaryllis is a lost cause.
> 
> On a related note (from chapter one), CHA: Charm - How much people like you. Used to convince princesses, barter with barmaids, or plead for your life.  LOL, nice use of "princess" instead of "party members".  That said, I betcha that if Joon had more SOC, he would not have had any trouble using the chamber for free or having unfettered access to the fortress.
> 
> It's increasingly clear to me that MEN/magic is the thing to focus on, for a few reasons
> 
> * In general, having many different schools of physical combat is not so useful: you can't take advantage of your axe skills and bow skills at the same time, and trying to switch between them incurs a cost.  However, each magic can (in general) be switched between seamlessly.  Likewise, each magic taps from a different resource (although some, such as Gem, are distasteful).  Still and Revision magic seem especially useful for survivability.
> * Soon, 2-3 party members will have Symbiosis, so simply having the ability to use the bone magic+essentialism trick gives them a huge advantage
> * It makes the party far less predictable: nobody expects the bow expert to have crazy magic skills, too.
> 
> On a related note, you really need to unlock and level as many magical skills as possible to take advantage of its potential.  This is likely actually quite easy, and the party is likely to finally have the time to do it once Solace brings the locus back.  In the simplest case, you just teleport into the city for the appropriate athenaum.  Creep around and find an unwitting subject who's out for a night of drinking.  From here, the options are endless!  
> 
> * "I'm writing a novel with a water mage in it.  I'd like to have a realistic training sequence... care to show me just the very first exercise you were ever taught?  That's all I need, and I could make it worth your while"
> * Hire a water mage for some petty task.  Establish rapport in doing so.  After all is done, offer more money to get a 10sec lesson.
> * (act drunk, or be drunk)  "Dude, my friend's totttaaallllyyy full of himself.  He says he can pick up a bit of any magic just by trying the first exercise for a second or two... Wanna help us settle a bet?  I'll give you $10k when I win ;-)"
> * Creepy games involving using soul magic to copy the appearance of their best friend, seducing them, applying the fools choker on them, temporarily modifying values, etc
> * And then just pack up ASAP and teleport to a new city.  For all cases, give yourselves fake faces just to be safe.  Rinse and repeat
> * Getting this for fire and water magic seems like an especially good idea, in light of what I say below
> 
> After doing that for any reasonable magic, it would be a good time to consider re-speccing.  Do the sacrifice again, but this time save a bit of extra skill so that you can boost skin magic as well.  Re-spec out of anything that you get from symbiosis, and likely into magics and things which your team does not have access to.  Use scar magic (skin boosted to high levels) + soul symbiote to give everyone scars (the soul symbiote has good synergy with this).  Focusing your points into MEN gives you extra flexibility here.
> 
> Once your Soul magic is at a decent level, it might be a good idea to flip-flop your points back and forth between SOC and PHY, depending on the situation and provided that you don't lose virtues to do so.
> 
> Likewise, since they'll have time after this, it seems like a good time to start building their technology base.  None of the exclusion zones are urgent matters and they have almost no immeadiate threats, so preparation is key
> 
> Perhaps the right answer to saving the locus is simply to get Grak or Joon up to super competent at Warding, and extend the interior dimensions of the bottle?  Make the bottle larger on the inside and it'll be stronger, giving you more options.  Or just combine Art and Essentialism on some later Sacrifice so you can interpret what the Locus' soul is telling you.
> 
> Magic is interesting in Worth the Candle, because it appears to be sorted into a relatively small number of related categories.  We've only really explored the first of these in depth, but I wouldn't be surprised if magics within a category are interfaced with in similar ways...
> 
> * "soul":
> blood
> bone
> carapace
> ink
> pustule
> skin (scar, tattoo)
> essentialism (not quite the same)
> 
> * "force":
> constriction
> still
> velocity
> vibrational
> 
> * "elemental":
> fire
> flower
> glass
> ice
> steel
> water
> wind
> wood
> 
> * "mental" (??):
> gem
> library
> revision
> 
> * "unsorted"
> druidic
> gold
> spirit(?)
> ward
> 
> Speaking of Spirit, I would have expected Joon to ask for a quick lesson in the Spirit blades after the rescue.  Doing so would likely unlock that telepathy trick, too.

>> **u/valeskas** [+9]  (4 hours later)
>> 
>> > "Tiff" seems unstable at best
>> 
>> Where? My read of the situtation - she was killing invaders for centuries, so she is switching gears a bit slowly. Otherwise she sounded consistent and stable during conversation.

>>> **u/munkeegutz** [+7]  (16 hours later)
>>> 
>>> I guess you're right.  I thought of her as more like the prison, which was built for a purpose and then had value drift.  On a second read-through, Zona looks like she is an intelligence which is not bound to the bloodline, and is instead more like a "separate being who also lives there".  
>>> 
>>> I'd still be careful around her, considering how much she dislikes Amaryllis

>> **u/Law_Student** [+6]  (9 hours later)
>> 
>> Speed's sheer defensive utility strikes me as worth not disregarding, and social skills are worth considering even if all they wind up doing is preserving party harmony.
>> 
>> Do we know how the mental stats interact with magic use, yet?

>>> **u/munkeegutz** [+3]  (14 hours later)
>>> 
>>> I think you have a good point about speed, and likewise about SOC.  
>>> 
>>> Really, it's a question of relative utility... Try to maximize the strength of the party per attribute point.  So there should be a strong bias for capitalizing on the advantages provided by symbiosis, which reduce the value of shared specializations.

>>>> **u/Law_Student** [+2]  (15 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> I suppose it's a good thing bone magic lets you twink physical attributes like crazy.
>>>> 
>>>> It occurs to me to wonder if the protagonist will ever find a way to bone magic up social skills for himself. (Bone up on?)

>>>>> **u/munkeegutz** [+1]  (16 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bone magic lvl10: pow/spd/end
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bone magic lvl20: cun/kno/wis
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bone magic lvl30: cha/ins/poi (?)

> **u/None** [+12]  (7 hours later)
> 
> [deleted]

>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+7]  *We are the Empire.* (11 hours later)
>> 
>> ... I don't think that's going to happen, but shit, that would be bad.

>> **u/Escapement** [+4]  *Ankh-Morpork City Watch* (a day later)
>> 
>> The hypothetical gets worse: 
>> [] (#s "“One day every minute,” said Zona.")
>> [] (#s "Their only authority on that particular fact is Zona, who... has not inspired a great deal of trust so far. If the chamber goes one year for one minute in reality, they could get to their first regular monthly checkup and meet an adult 30 y/o druid raised on Earth fiction and a mother Mary being in her late forties.")

> **u/Kilbourne** [+11]  (4 hours later)
> 
> Poor Mary :(
> 
> I feel bad for her.

> **u/SatelliteFool** [+9]  (a day later)
> 
> *After finishing chapter 88*: oh thank god there's another chapter. What a cliffhanger *that* would've  been.
> 
> *After finishing chapter 89*: oh god damn it.

> **u/monkyyy0** [+9]  (19 hours later)
> 
> Why the fuck are they not taking turns spending time with her?
> 
> The guy who has supernatural abilities to learn shit could use some time to train

>> **u/Makin-** [+3]  *homestuck ratfic, you can do it* (a day later)
>> 
>> Remember Joon's abilities can only be solo/amateur trained to a point. Time to train mattered more when he didn't have so many well leveled skills.

>>> **u/sicutumbo** [+7]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> That's true, but he has a number of skills that he hasn't properly unlocked yet. Given some initial book learning, he should be able to unlock still, velocity, vibrational, revision, water, and fire magic. Then also get engineering and a few of his less used combat skills maxed out. After that, he can still do normal learning through the books stored in Sable or the backpack. He would be limited by the size of the room, and given that I doubt he could max out fire or water magic, but even some simple fire spells used by multiple people could provide a nice combat advantage.  There's also thinking of ways to use his current abilities better, rather than simply making them more powerful. He hasn't tapped into soul magic body enhancement significantly as of yet.
>>> 
>>> There was another comment in this thread that I think makes a better case for why Joon shouldn't go in with Amaryllis. Fenn can't go in because she would annoy Mary way too much. Amaryllis is extremely attractive to Joon, and that attraction is returned to some degree. Joon and Amaryllis living in such a small confined space together, with basically complete privacy, is potentially very bad for Joon's current relationship with Fenn. It's best for him not to put himself in the situation in the first place.
>>> 
>>> Hopefully, Fenn and Joon could use the room for a subjective month or week, where they could both train without the potential problems of Amaryllis and Joon sharing the room.

> **u/akaltyn** [+6]  (2 days later)
> 
> Random thought about the parallels betweeen Zona and Juniper & co. They've been getting progressively more casual about killing people, even innocent bystanders like the pilot. They've been thinking about it in passing but not going into detail examining it. Now they are encountering this sentient location that cheerfully admits to killing and torturing various groups of adventurers in creative ways for its(her?) own amusement. May be leading up to a "not so different" moment

> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+5]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (10 seconds later)
> 
> Typos here, please.

>> **u/wnoise** [+8]  (2 hours later)
>> 
>> > Amaryllis got a thirty-pound weight out from the glove, which was attached to a length of thin mithral chain
>> 
>> "Mithril", if you're borrowing Tolkien's word rather than later corruptions of it.  I don't recall seeing it referenced earlier.

>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+5]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> I'm not borrowing from Tolkien, I'm borrowing from D&D and/or Pathfinder, which I think might be using the variant spelling for copyright reasons.

>> **u/Anderkent** [+4]  (46 minutes later)
>> 
>> Typos:
>> 
>> >Amaryllis had freed both her armors from the armor
>> 
>> Both her arms
>> 
>> > A fast-bonding adhesive would then be carefully applied to the arrow before it was fired, and ideally *it was stick* to a wall
>> 
>> Ideally it would stick
>> 
>> >the end of which was attached to a length of thing, elven-made rope that had been purchased at great expense.
>> 
>> A length of thin, elven-made rope
>> 
>> ------
>> 
>> My brain has opinions about commas; I don't know if those opinions reflect english grammar, so take those complaints with a grain of salt. LMK if those are too opinionated, and I'll try to stick to just typos next time.
>> 
>> >It had been coined by Fenn, but the ‘tele-’ prefix meant ‘far’, and all arrows, almost by definition, were already traveling across great distances, and further, the telearrow didn’t actually go any further than a normal arrow, and in fact, due to weight, balance, and worse aerodynamics, tended to go quite a bit less far.
>> 
>> I get that it's probably intentional that this scans poorly, but maybe if some of the commas were semicolons ("distances; and further", arrow; and in fact") it wouldn't be quite that extreme? I had to read this sentence three times to parse out which clauses were independent ;p (is 'and further' about the great distances, or a variant on 'furthermore'? etc)
>> 
>> > Amaryllis had freed both her armors from the armor, while one hand rested gentle fingers on the glove, feeling its magic, the other held a pocketwatch, which was counting down the seconds
>> 
>> "gentle" feels out of place there, did you mean "while one hand rested gently on the glove"?
>> 
>> Also feel like you need either a full stop after armor, or some kind of conjunction after the comma. "Amaryllis had freed both her arms from the armor, and while one hand rested gentle fingers on the glove, feeling its magic, the other held" seems to scan better.
>> 
>> > arrow fired against glass, metal, or stone, would be too likely
>> 
>> Don't think the comma after stone should be there. "arrow fired against glass or stone would be too likely" -> "arrow fired against glass, metal, or stone would be too likely"
>> 
>> >which would slow down the glove-carrying shaft of the arrow. A fast-bonding adhesive would then be carefully applied to the arrow before it was fired, and ideally it was stick to a wall, which would allow Amaryllis to get out of the glove, stick herself in place with the immobility plate
>> 
>>  in 'would then be applied ... before it was fired' the then seems off, messing up the chronology; 'stick' is repeated twice in short succession (try fix?:
>> 
>> "A fast-bonding adhesive, applied carefully to the arrow before it was fired, would ideally stick to a wall, allowing Amaryllis to get out of the glove, fix herself in place..."
>> 
>> > For that, Amaryllis had specialized tools, not just ropes, pitons, and a harness, all things she’d bought way back in Barren Jewel for the assault on Caer Laga, but a wound crossbow that she loaded with a heavy arrow, the end of which was attached to a length of thing, elven-made rope that had been purchased at great expense.
>> 
>> don't think you need a comma between thin and elven-made; the comma after 'specialised tools' should be a colon, the commas around 'all things' could be hyphens:
>> 
>> "specialized tools: not just ropes, pitons, and a harness - all things she’d bought way back in Barren Jewel for the assault on Caer Laga - but also a wound crossbow that she loaded with a heavy arrow, the end of which was attached to a length of thin elven-made rope that had been purchased at great expense."
>> 
>> > The steel-tipped arrow was fired from its specialized crossbow, hurled across the relatively short distance separating them, then broke off part of the wall where it struck and fell limply down, trailing rope behind it until Amaryllis grabbed the end and began pulling it back up to reload it.
>> 
>> The arrow changes from object to subject in the third part of the sentence, and I feel like you need to make that explicit; "then it broke off part of the wall where it struck", maybe? As is the transition is jarring.

>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+3]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Fixed the first part. The second part I'll have to spend more time going over, a lot of it is stuff that just takes two or three editing passes for me to see. It kind of sucks that writing and editing take from the same pool of time and effort, because I do think I'm capable of writing prose at a higher level, the problem is that it comes at the expense of *quantity* of prose, which isn't really a trade-off that I want to make.

>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+2]  *Carbon-based biped* (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> I suppose one workaround would be to have a trusted beta with sufficient access to do the editing passes? And just consult with you in cases where the fix is uncertain.

>>>> **u/Anderkent** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks! To be clear none of this stuff is anything that prevents me from enjoying your work, it just sometimes makes me pause :P

>> **u/Kerbal_NASA** [+2]  (8 hours later)
>> 
>> ch. 88
>> 
>> >she had all the tools she needed to make into within the wards of Kuum Doona
>> 
>> make into -> get
>> 
>> (OR similar alternative, ofc)
>> 
>> >which she gradually realized were interlocking in the same way that chainmail is
>> 
>> that chainmail is -> chainmail does

>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+1]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Fixed, thanks.

>> **u/Atilme** [+1]  (an hour later)
>> 
>>  each of them ~~different~~ a different size and shape, 
>> 
>> around as **a** wedding band \(you already mentioned this in the previous paragraph, intentional?\)

>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+1]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Fixed those, thanks.

>> **u/GeeJo** [+1]  *Custom Flair* (5 hours later)
>> 
>> Ch 89:
>> 
>> > I do not bow its princes or princesses

>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+1]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Fixed, thanks.

>> **u/Permash** [+1]  (13 hours later)
>> 
>> Chp 89
>> 
>> “I presume that you’ve brought your own sources of food, water, air, and waste elimination, as well as ways of providing for your personal hygine.”
>> 
>> Hygine should be hygiene

>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+2]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Fixed, thanks.

>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (21 hours later)
>> 
>> Chapter 88:
>> 
>> two hours time/two hours' time
>> 
>> the release her plate's immobility/the release of her plate's immobility
>> 
>> take the edge of/take the edge off
>> 
>> Chapter 89:
>> 
>> The obvious answer Arthur/The obvious answer was Arthur
>> 
>> I should give you warning;/I should give you warning:

>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+1]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Fixed those, thank you.

>> **u/Makin-** [+1]  *homestuck ratfic, you can do it* (17 days later)
>> 
>> Chapter 6:
>> >Poul was silent for awhile. “Solider,” he finally said.
>> 
>> Should probably be Soldier.
>> 
>> >by squeezing my legs around the seat,, 
>> 
>> Should only be one comma.

>>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+1]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (19 days later)
>>> 
>>> Fixed those, thanks!

> **u/serge_cell** [+4]  (a day later)
> 
> So, which three entads Zona gonna claim?
> 
> My guess is:
> 
> Immobility plate because Zona doesn't like Amaryllis
> 
> Ropey because June emotionally attached to it
> 
> Glove because it'd make Fenn gone berserk, or f Zona actually like Fenn Earth portal backpack because it strange or to f*k Amaryllis more.

>> **u/sicutumbo** [+3]  (a day later)
>> 
>> I hope that they can negotiate to keep the glove, backpack, and teleportation stone. Everything else is replaceable to one extent or other, but losing any of those three would severely hamper their ability to do anything in the future. Losing Sable means that they have about a thousand pounds of gold that they would somehow have to store in a secure location that they don't currently possess. Losing the teleportation means they have no ability to actually get out of the pit, much less move around Aerb at a non-glacial pace. And the backpack provides huge utility in it's ability to just conjure food, information, and gadgets at will. It's an almost strictly better version of the clonal kit. All three have no replacement, while losing some useful armor or a versatile weapon is harmful but only mildly effects their overall performance.

>>> **u/serge_cell** [+1]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Actually if Zona eat entads as it hinted in the chapter, backpack could be poison to it.

> **u/Rouninscholar** [+7]  (29 minutes later)
> 
> Lol, was just getting annoyed that there wasn't more (I started reading monday, and caught up yesterday)
> 
> Thank you for the story! Love the world.

> **u/adgnatum** [+3]  (17 hours later)
> 
> > I kept thinking that this fortress was basically a Superfund site
> 
> What do you think are the odds that it can clean up after itself, but doesn't (since it would ruin the haunting effect)?
> 
> Aside, what's the etymology of this meaning of "Superfund"? Wiktionary has [an answer](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/superfund), but not to the right question.

>> **u/akaatnene** [+2]  (19 hours later)
>> 
>> US Federal program to clean up polluted areas - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfund

>>> **u/adgnatum** [+1]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> Right, right, but why is it called that? CERCLA -> ??? -> Superfund.

>>>> **u/Izeinwinter** [+2]  (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> Politics. "Clean up all the worst polluted areas" is very important, but the opposite of glamorous, so the politicians behind it slapped a cool name on it to ensure they got at least a bit of cred with the voters for doing a right thing.

> **u/SlightlyInsaneMind** [+3]  (a day later)
> 
> I'd literally break few of my own fingers if it would somehow make Ctulhu write Amaryllis's school days interlude.

>> **u/Kilbourne** [+5]  (4 days later)
>> 
>> Holy crap man, calm down

> **u/lowercase__t** [+3]  (a day later)
> 
> Can someone confirm that the following is their current list of entads? Am I forgetting one?
> 
> - teleportation key: high power level, very high utility; hard (but not impossible) to replace
> 
> - storage glove (Sable): extremely high utility; sentimental value (Fenn)
> 
> - Anyblade: low power level, high utility; 
> 
> - Ropey: negligible power level, some utility, very high sentimental value (Joon/everyone?); should be considered a party member/friend
> 
> - immobility plate: (apparently) infinite power level but narrow; some utility
> 
> - artillery bow: only long-range "big gun" (especially with the void grenade trick) in a fight; might hold sentimental value (Fenn)
> 
> - hairy axe: low power level, minor utility; might hold sentimental value (Grak)
> 
> - fairy jar: medium utility, fairly redundant given Joon's healing powers
> 
> - clonal kit: minor marginal utility since most things it produces can be produced by backpack or bought in advance and stored in glove
> 
> - Earth backpack (?): medium utility; literally irreplaceable; provides access to the combined knowledge of a civilization
> 
> - returnable dagger: low power level, negligible utility
> 
> - countdown bow: low power level, medium utility
> 
> - first-hit armor: high power level, negligible utility
> 
> - Amaryllis' sword: can't remember the power
> 
> - Amaryllis' amulet: can't remember the power
> 
> - various random entads (?) looted from various enemies

>> **u/Dufaer** [+4]  (2 days later)
>> 
>> There are also:
>> 
>> * Amaryllis' sword (blade can be switched on and off; telefrags)
>> * throwing dagger (comes flying backward; teleports around the body to stay hidden)
>> * sand bow
>> * Joon's armor
>> * Fenn's destroyed armor might still count
>> * Amaryllis' amulet (holds a single personality imprint)
>> * the leafy cloak
>> * the bottle with the locus
>> 
>> Stuff that hasn't seen any use:
>> 
>> * a sickle with a rich oak handle (uninvestable)
>> 
>> Auman's stuff:
>> 
>> * a shortsword
>> * bracelet (maybe anti-poison)
>> * necklace (maybe anti-poison)
>> * pocketwatch (shows the equivalent of latitude and longitude)
>> * glasses (some sort of IFF)
>> * a chair
>> 
>> Also Larkspur's stuff, I guess.
>> 
>> EDIT: Added many more.

>>> **u/lowercase__t** [+3]  (2 days later)
>>> 
>>> Oh, I forgot they also have lots of random entads from loot. I guess the sacrifice-three-entads thing becomes pretty trivial then, unless Zona insists on some specific ones.

>>>> **u/icesharkk** [+2]  (2 days later)
>>>> 
>>>> She did say she gets to choose. Assume that it's going to be painful.

>>>>> **u/Izeinwinter** [+2]  (3 days later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> You are assuming Zona will pick maliciously. This is, of course, a possibility, but not the most likely outcome. 
>>>>> Other Possibilities: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> A: Zona eats entads, but does not care at all what they are, thus picks 3 they wont miss. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> B: Zone does very much care what she eats, and will be picking on the basis of what will be most useful to her.. Which will sting, but is not optimized for being hurtful to the party - This could for example mean the cookie jar, the bottle of the six-eyed doe (dumping the locus back into the world in the process of claiming it) and the amulet of mind storage.

> **u/nytelios** [+3]  (2 days later)
> 
> I've been imagining Kuum Doona as Howl's Moving Castle ever since we found out it moves. Maybe I glossed over it, but I haven't really gotten the image of how it's oriented. It's more tall than wide, but is that height on the Y-axis? I'm imagining it looks like an encyclopedia pancaked against the wall with any cannons or towers built on the broad side sticking over the pit. So Mary climbed down the "spine of the book" onto the "bottom" where the door and the jutting walkway presumably sit right above the empty expanse of the Pit.

> **u/sandra_cain** [+3]  (2 days later)
> 
> > Most of the climbing faces had velocity wards beneath them, layered so that you would be slowed by degrees as you passed through them and hit the ground no harder than if you’d tripped over your own feet on ground level, which meant there was no need for spotters or someone to belay her.
> 
> when my sister was 13 she tripped over her feet on a carpeted floor and shattered her forearm bones into several fragments, requiring years of reconstructive surgery
> 
> it was not particularly likely but id want to make the wards a *bit* gentler

> **u/Imm_Atherial** [+3]  (5 days later)
> 
> Did something happen to the story? I can't access it anymore. It's killing me.  
> I love it so far, and have been eagerly awaiting the next chapter.

>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+4]  *Fruit flies like a banana* (5 days later)
>> 
>> See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/8cppyk/d_worth_the_candle_seems_to_be_gone/dxgv09w/

>> **u/None** [+3]  (5 days later)
>> 
>> [deleted]

>>> **u/Imm_Atherial** [+3]  (5 days later)
>>> 
>>> The author responded to me.  
>>> >See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/8cppyk/d_worth_the_candle_seems_to_be_gone/dxgv09w/

> **u/Kuratius** [+2]  (10 hours later)
> 
> So can Joon use soul magic and a marzipan fairy to fix Grak now?
> 
> Second question, but why no vacation in the time chamber?

>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+5]  *We are the Empire.* (20 hours later)
>> 
>> > Second question, but why no vacation in the time chamber?
>> 
>> Because the time chamber is the size of a small apartment, and would feel super crowded with the whole group in it. Not sure why they sent Mary alone, though. The ideal group size would probably be 2.

>> **u/adgnatum** [+2]  (17 hours later)
>> 
>> In hindsight, I present the joint facts that Grak doesn't like soul interactions and that soul interactions can be useful. Seems like something we might have guessed in advance, really.
>> 
>> Time for some more left-right bone mirroring?

> **u/xartab** [+2]  (3 days later)
> 
> Wait, quick question. Do they still have the bottle/s of unicorn blood with them? They said they were gonna keep one, and we never knew that they sold it, as far as I remember.

>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+3]  *We are the Empire.* (3 days later)
>> 
>> Even without the blood, I was wondering if they could heal from whatever poison they took using bones or blood. It would probably be part of Zona's "game of cups", a la "One of these cups may be poisoned, let's not have the bone mage drink until she's cured everyone else".

>>> **u/xartab** [+2]  (4 days later)
>>> 
>>> Although it seems like she could crush their skulls easy enough...

> **u/AStartlingStatement** [+2]  (a day later)
> 
> I ship Amaruniper so I was hoping they would end up in that time chamber together. 
> 
> But I'm a patient man, I can wait.

>> **u/xartab** [+1]  (7 days later)
>> 
>> I ship Junifenn the most and you are bad people.

>>> **u/water125** [+3]  (18 days later)
>>> 
>>> Why can't we all get along and go for that sweet polyamory? Through devil girl on there as well.

> **u/dalitt** [+1]  (2 days later)
> 
> Yes. This didn’t bother me even slightly, even after reading several of your comments on the issue.

> **u/Andreasfr1** [+1]  (17 days later)
> 
> Maybe the "See you in a month" is also to us, the readers. Because it's currently been 17 days without a new chapter, and the longest time between chapters before this was "The Long Night", with 19 days between chapters.

> **u/CouteauBleu** [+1]  *We are the Empire.* (11 hours later)
> 
> Haha, "Case 70". I get it now :)

> **u/awesomeideas** [+0]  *Dai stiho, cousin.* (22 hours later)
> 
> Zona! I love it. Stalker reference?

---