scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/8dkrue.md

## [RT][HF] A Practical Guide to Evil: Book 4: Chapter 4: Warpath

* Author: u/Zayits *
* URL: https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpress.com/2018/04/20/chapter-4-warpath/
* Score: 74

* Created: 2018-04-20T04:01:22

### Post:

[Link to content](https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpress.com/2018/04/20/chapter-4-warpath/)

### Comments:

> **u/paradoxinclination** [+25]  (33 minutes later)
> 
> Fourteen heroes? Goddamn. It's a good thing conservation of ninjutsu is in effect here, 'cause as dangerous as the Woe are they definitely can't take nearly 3-to-1 odds without the narrative on their side. Even with the proper story that is going to be a hellacious battle. Got-*damn* I can't wait.

>> **u/CFCrispyBacon** [+10]  (11 hours later)
>> 
>> They're not used to working together\-the ones Thief managed to get info on are all solo heroes.  Cat's plan is probably to skirmish and defeat them in as small of groups as she can get them, all along reinforcing the narrative that she's the rightful ruler trying to defend against invaders and getting them to sue for peace.  Not a good story to be going against as heroes\-the righteousness of their cause falters as soon as they meet the average Callowan on the street, a good person that doesn't want their country burning and is FINE with Cat as a ruler.  She'll rip right through them until Grey Pilgrim does some mentoring shenanigans.

> **u/Mountebank** [+16]  (38 minutes later)
> 
> So the Grey Pilgrim is the mentor archetype? He's got connections with a ton of other heroes, so it wouldn't be strange for "unexpected" reinforcements to show up, but at the same time if Cat can convince him then that would maybe spread to all the other heroes influenced by him.

>> **u/panchoadrenalina** [+23]  (42 minutes later)
>> 
>> the Grey Pilgrim is Gandalf in the Hobbit, even the name fits.
>> 
>> Appears sets shit in motion leaves, 
>> Heroes are in trouble, comes back to help.
>> Leaves again.

>>> **u/Zayits** [+12]  (an hour later)
>>> 
>>> Up to and including the fourteen heroes in the party. I seriously hope the Saint of Swords will have some kind of long-term conflict with one of the princes getting resolved in the middle of the campaign, because if the Pilgrim takes the point for this story, we may well expect stuff like story-mandated resurrection during a climactic battle.

>>>> **u/panchoadrenalina** [+12]  (2 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> There are already hints that the Saint had bones to pick with the nobility since her last act before going into a decades long training montage was to turn into sashimi a prince. Furthermore since the Saint will be acompanying a very corrupt, self serving and little "e evil" noble. I can expect that she will get tired of dealing with the noble's shit very soon.
>>>> 
>>>> The ony thing Cat have going for her is that the heroes suffer from Conservation of Ninjutsu and that maybe Cat can take advantage on the fact that the world runs on Plot-onium to reframe the story from "Crusade to off a Tyrant" into "Rightful Ruler fights off Invaders"
>>>> 
>>>> Cat is planning to turn the war into an atrition campaing to convince procer to fall back (Russia's General **Winter** vs Napoleon/Hitler) when i read that my mind blew up. maybe there is somekind of prediction there maybe not, but the concept of cat summoning gral winter to her cause sounds fun.

>>>>> **u/Razorhead** [+7]  (15 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> > Plot-onium
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think the proper term is *Narrativium*, as first described in the Discworld novels by Sir Terry Pratchett (GNU Terry Practchett). It's even listed on the TvTropes page for [Theory Of Narrative Causality.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheoryOfNarrativeCausality)

>>>>> **u/LLJKCicero** [+5]  (14 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> > Plot-onium
>>>>> 
>>>>> I love this.

>>> **u/Nimelennar** [+2]  (7 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Makes the Demon Egg in the mountains the heroes are taking a shortcut through a good sign (temporarily), doesn't it?

>>>> **u/panchoadrenalina** [+2]  (17 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> a fire demon? as in "you shall not pass!"?

> **u/haiku_fornification** [+15]  (5 hours later)
> 
> Cat's gambit is extremely risky but I can see it paying off. 
> 
> If the Dead King and the Tyrant attack the Principate and Cat doesn't totally butcher the invading army the First Prince would likely reevaluate Callow's usefulness. If the Big Bads are powerful enough an alliance would make political (and narrative) sense - the good guys have to ally with a lesser evil in order to defeat a greater one.
> 
> It strikes me that the purpose of the monthly meetings between Cat and Cordelia might have nothing to do with diplomacy or even with seizing each other up. Rather, Cat used is as a way to make herself sympathetic. 
> 
> Hardly any time was spent on diplomacy - essentially both sides reiterated their position - but Cat talked at length about her mistakes, her motivations, her idea of ruling. Trying to find common ground in history and having an honest discussion about principles of governance... she was courting Cordelia for a future alliance.

>> **u/GaBeRockKing** [+10]  *Horizon Breach: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6785857* (10 hours later)
>> 
>> >she was courting Cordelia for a future alliance.
>> 
>> Or maybe she's just straight-up courting Cordelia. Black Queen x First Prince OTP

>>> **u/None** [+3]  (14 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Best way to end the war, right there.
>>> 
>>> Nobility so loves it's political marriages.......

>>>> **u/panchoadrenalina** [+3]  (17 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> but creation does not recicle plots in the same story, and the wars with the fae ended with marriage

>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+3]  *We are the Empire.* (9 hours later)
>> 
>> Yeah, that's the vibe I got too. Cat is trying to humanize herself to Cordelia.

> **u/Yes_This_Is_God** [+25]  (an hour later)
> 
> Okay so get this...
> 
> The Woe starts killing heroes. Grey Pilgrim shows up as a boss fight with the narrative on his side.
> 
> RANGER shows up to SAVE HER APPRENTICE and her lover's apprentice, turning the Grey Pilgrim story right on its head.
> 
> I'm ready for it.

>> **u/Frommerman** [+21]  (4 hours later)
>> 
>> Someone who has never lost sounds *exactly* like something worth hunting, doesn't it?

> **u/WalterTFD** [+10]  (9 hours later)
> 
> Very wise of Cat to realize that destroying the Proceran army will make peace impossible.  I hadn't expected her to grok that.  Maybe Akua's influence.

>> **u/Sarkavonsy** [+2]  (2 days later)
>> 
>> I think Ubua would be 100% in favor of massacring the Procerans, actually. One of Evil Classic(TM)'s biggest blind spots is "don't make the whole world your enemy." See literally everything she does in Book 3 for an example.

> **u/None** [+5]  (46 minutes later)
> 
> I cat wait for whatever is going to happen to even the scales.

>> **u/narfanator** [+13]  (2 hours later)
>> 
>> Grey Pilgrim gets his hero squad reinforcements...
>> 
>> ...and Triumphant shows up with the part of the Fifteenth that got stranded in Hell by Warlock.
>> 
>> Also something something Dead King.

>>> **u/Frommerman** [+16]  (4 hours later)
>>> 
>>> I swear, if Triumphant does return, that would be the greatest brick joke I've ever read.

> **u/signeti** [+4]  (2 hours later)
> 
> I have to say I don't see the end game of this story. South of Callow is in ruins, north is about to be fucked. I have no doubt, that someone is going to release that demon in Harrow and that most of norther part of kingdom is going to be fucked. Even if she wins she is going to rule over dead and ashes.
> 
> I also don't like her reasoning. She has secret weapon for second time. She has a way to avoid spilling Callowan blood and she is not going to take it. Because it would make rest of Carelia her enemy? The rest of Carelia is waging war with her. She has 14 heroes on her doorstep. Did she learn nothing from Liese and Akua?
> 
> Also why that reluctance to massacre Procean troops (even if she could)? Procer cant wage protracted war on her. They have other threads to worry about. Cordelia said that herself in one of her interludes.

>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+16]  *We are the Empire.* (5 hours later)
>> 
>> > I also don't like her reasoning. She has secret weapon for second time. She has a way to avoid spilling Callowan blood and she is not going to take it. Because it would make rest of Carelia her enemy? The rest of Carelia is waging war with her. She has 14 heroes on her doorstep. Did she learn nothing from Liese and Akua?
>> 
>> Oh yeah, all she has to do to stop the war is to burn dozens of cities to the ground and kill tens of thousands of civilians, over the course of many months, until the enemy country collapses. And hope the 14 heroes go away on their own after that, and that Procer doesn't kill immense amounts of Callowan civilians as retributions while she's busy razing the Proceran countryside.

>>> **u/signeti** [+2]  (5 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Yeah I know it sounds bad, but last time she choose to back of from drastic measures it resulted in 100k dead Callowans. Here she has the opportunity to take war to Procer, to force Procer forces to back out or face extinction and to show she is willing to go for mutually assured destruction.
>>> 
>>> It just grates on my nerves that she allways says that people of Callow are her first priority, but anytime there is choice to be made, she always chooses the way that results in more damage to Callow and more dead Callowans.

>>>> **u/Iconochasm** [+19]  (7 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Alternative framing:  last time someone tried to fuck around with drastic measures, it resulted in 100k dead Callowans.

>>> **u/Razorhead** [+1]  (15 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Not to even mention the intensity of the *Story* this would set up against Cat in the future, which will work even more against her due to her being Fey Royalty and stories having an even bigger edge against her. Yeah, she may win the war this way, but the cost would be so horribly high and catastrophic that she's setting herself up for suicide by narrative.

>> **u/notagiantdolphin** [+7]  (4 hours later)
>> 
>> I suspect as to plan bonfire that she's concerned about starting a world war, with literally everyone stomping all over her - both good and evil. It'll fracture, sure, but Callow's pretty central and everyone can get a turn in. Liesse might stave off Crusades, if it worked, but having a single warleader who could cheerfully walk her army anywhere on the planet and ignore any sort of resistance? Forget the armies, the legions of assassins and heroes would be stacked a kilometre high.

>>> **u/signeti** [+2]  (5 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Every "good" nation is already waging war with her. Every "evil" nation is either already on her side (Praes), impartial (King of Dead atm) or to my understanding indifferent towards surface dwellers (King Under/Drows). Only entity that remains is Free Cities but they are atm mostly doing their own thing.
>>> 
>>> I also think that it would be good deterrent against future wars. If enemy knows you can pop up anywhere in their country they will think twice before attacking. This could also be good to support any allies.
>>> 
>>> Regarding heroes. This seemed like a bit wobbly argument to me even when they talked about Liesse. They are facing Crusade, I would think this means that all Heroes on continent are already stacking against them.

>>>> **u/notagiantdolphin** [+6]  (6 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> That's what I mean - even evil nations would go to war with her. Including Praes. It'd be a case of 'she can't kill us all'. It'd be as big a revolution in warfare as WW1 was, but with only one side having automatic guns and everyone else out to stop them.

> **u/Arancaytar** [+1]  (a day later)
> 
> > the Grey Pilgrim
> 
> Oh crap, Catherine has to fight Gandalf.
> 
> Along with thirteen other heroes apparently. Is one of them a burglar?

>> **u/Zayits** [+1]  (a day later)
>> 
>> Holy kung-fu Gandalf, to be more precise. And twelve underleveled heroes who are likely to start triggering new Aspects as soon as they get in a real fight, which might lend more weight to Catherine's idea to call retreat.
>> 
>> Then again, if the campaign will start to get bogged down by disappearing supply trains and scheming princes, they may go down the river straight to Wasteland.

> **u/cyberwarrior101** [+1]  (4 days later)
> 
> I had a theory on this series for a while now. The reason for the success of the calamities and the woe is that they put themselves into the roles of heros. Hero's fight for a cause greater than themselves. Hero's are merciful and self sacrificing. It does not matter quite as much as people think it does to BE a villain vs a hero. It is much more important what you are based on the story you are a part of in the moment. I believe that the Calamities and the Woe are decent evidence for that. So from the perspective of the story, this is not a crusade, this is the invasion of a soveign nation by an evil empire. Farther the hero's are not hero's but assasins. They are villans, seeking to depose of a rightful and relitively popular ruler, bringing chaos to the kingdom in preparation for an invasion. Cat farther solidifies that by welcoming the hero's and offering mercy to them, which they throw back in her face, just as a villain might.

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