scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/8e8pjx.md

## [RT][HF] A Practical Guide to Evil: Book 4: Chapter 5: Interests

* Author: u/Zayits *
* URL: https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpress.com/2018/04/23/chapter-5-interests/
* Score: 64

* Created: 2018-04-23T04:00:51

### Post:

[Link to content](https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpress.com/2018/04/23/chapter-5-interests/)

### Comments:

> **u/Zayits** [+18]  (50 minutes later)
> 
> So, unlike in the previous conflicts, this time Catherine wars with another countries, ones she can't feasibly conquer and control. She also will either have to resign sooner or later, or to become a human again, either of which means that breaking the crusading armies badly enough that the enemies flee will only delay their return until the threat is gone. That means she'll have to treat with them, in some form.
> 
> To do that she'd have to:
> 
> * leave the Grey Pilgrim alive and relatively well, or the Levantines will rush her. Saint of Swords may be more expendable, since heroes aren't as popular in Procer, but she also has been hinted to have gripes with Proceran royalty, so it might be wiser to leave her alive, if leveraging that would be possible.
> 
> * spare the majority of the invading host, since otherwise Cordelia will *have* to retaliate. How expendable are the princes is debatable, since while First Prince sent them in the first wave to die, their popularity with the remainder of the Principate is debatable.
> 
> * come up with treaties that would assure the leaders of crusaders that the threat that served as the pretext for the war (the superweapons from the Tower that can be replicated at a later date) is dealt with. The wording ("Now I just had to make sure everyone else in this mess was ready to sign [the Liesse Accords], and that was a different beast. Malicia, I knew, never would agree."), while implying that the Empress will have to be deposed, doesn't seem to *include* her resignation in those treaties. The only way that superweapons can be credibly disposed of, and one Malicia would see as an unacceptable, is bringing down the Tower. EDIT: On a second thought, even that may not help. If the recent story about the poisoning of a former Russian spy in London is any indication, there is *no* good way to convince people you aren't hiding the poison-producing facilities elsewhere.
> 
> Did I forget any other diplomatic constraints? 
> how would you untangle his political knot while actively waging a war in your lands?

>> **u/paradoxinclination** [+13]  (55 minutes later)
>> 
>> Fate seems determined to find out just how many restrictions Catherine can be put under before she decides to say fuck it and just massacre everyone who crosses her border like an old-school villain.

>>> **u/Zayits** [+10]  (57 minutes later)
>>> 
>>> Oh yeah, I forgot the looming Princes' Graveyard! That sounds like at least one condition broken (unless she can manage to sift the blame, or Amadis does something monumentally stupid like keeping the demon standars to himself).

>> **u/signeti** [+14]  (2 hours later)
>> 
>> I don't believe becoming human would help her rule better. Lets be honest, she is crap at it. She is much better on the battlefield. Which is also why I don't think that war is going to come to any peaceful resolution. Nothing in this story has been done so far without rivers of blood and mountains of bodies.
>> 
>> I also quite like that inhuman aspect she is fighting with. It brings something new and refreshing. And when she will eventually cut loose, it will be glorious.
>> 
>> At this stage I really don't have slightest idea, how she will win (or if she will). None of my predictions in past came to be and author does great job in coming with unexpected turns. I quite enjoy that.

>>> **u/Zayits** [+11]  (2 hours later)
>>> 
>>> While you are right about rivers of blood and mountains of bodies, she cannot afford not to try. After all, no matter where a conflict on Calernia starts, if she protracts it chances rise of it spilling into Callow. Add to that the fact that she already will have to antagonize eight mortal rulers to deliver on her bargain with Larat, and she needs to start minimizing the fallout *now*.
>>> 
>>> Letting Winter loose will come at a great cost, which nearly guarantees it to be lethal, with savvy heroes and a Bard on the other side. Remember, giving in to it turns her into the kind of villain that they've been exterminating for *decades*.

>>>> **u/signeti** [+2]  (3 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> You have a point. But can she really hold back against Grey Pilgrim and Saint of Blades? When the choice is certain death or some future complications I believe she will use everything at her disposal.

>> **u/panchoadrenalina** [+7]  (4 hours later)
>> 
>> I think that is of note that Cat also haves a little Providence of her own. The first stage of a villain's plan will always work. Maybe she can pull an irritant and concatenate first stages until something good happens

>>> **u/None** [+5]  (8 hours later)
>>> 
>>> the Tyrant is going that way for sure

>>> **u/Sarkavonsy** [+4]  (16 hours later)
>>> 
>>> As has been said about Kairos, the "always keep a first step going" thing isn't a plan, it's a juggler's philosophy. No matter how good at juggling you are, if you try to juggle forever your arms will get tired. In particular, the more wacky plans you stack up and then leave behind you, the more catastrophic it will be when you lose momentum and they all come crashing down on you, Evil Classic™ style. Fate gets sick of that kind of gimmick quickly, I imagine.

>> **u/AurelianoTampa** [+1]  (8 hours later)
>> 
>> >How expendable are the princes is debatable, since while First Prince sent them in the first wave to die, their popularity with the remainder of the Principate is debatable.
>> 
>> My thinking is that Prince Milenan is the number one contender for deadifying. Princess Malanza is dangerous, but politically she's weaker than Milenan because her brother is buttering up the leaders and poised to take rulership of his realm. So if Milenan dies but Malanza lives, Cordelia loses her main political rival, keeps a great general, and faces no real risk from the outcome. If Malanza takes over the reigns of Milenan's faction, I doubt the other rulers will be too upset and demand retribution. That will make her much more willing to work with Cat on negotiating a cease-fire.
>> 
>> I'm actually curious why Malicia wants them both to live. Perhaps she sees treating with Milenan as easier than Cordelia? But she has to know that Milenan succeeding Cordelia means he'll want a chunk of Callow in return for calling off the Crusade. That means a long-term threat closer than Procer currently is, losing part of Praes's bread basket, and obviously severing ties to the Woe forever (well, as long as Cat's around). It seems like a lousy long-term plan, even if it's the "easiest" way to end the Crusade.

>>> **u/WalterTFD** [+3]  (10 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Amadis may launch a coup attempt which will fracture the crusade, is my guess. If the princess stays alive, and joins with him, and Black/Assassin can kill Klaus...

>> **u/None** [+1]  (9 hours later)
>> 
>> Not a political constraint, but a narrative one: put any of the heroes in too tight of a spot, and the Grey Pilgrim gains narrative weight for the purposes of stepping in and saving them.

> **u/JanusTheDoorman** [+14]  (an hour later)
> 
> God, I just feel *bad* for Catherine. I know, and she knows, that she threw away any chance of a personal happy ending from the moment she accepted apprenticeship to Black, but does the whole world have to burn down around her, too?
> 
> I mean, this story seemed to start out with a pretty clean divide between good and evil, with one young girl trying to have her cake and eat it too - crossing over to the side of evil because it seemed like the only way to help end the suffering of her people.
> 
> Now that she's finally got her crown, it turns out there is no Good in the world as far as I can see - the spectrum seems to run from Dark Grey to Blacker-than-Black. Every hero we've encountered so far has been so naive and narrow minded it's hard to see them as real people. The rulers of every nation, including the "Good" ones are some combination of corrupt, appallingly selfish, and just actually Evil.
> 
> Where's the anti-Cat? Where the smart, capable person who can see and deal with power struggles but still believes in good, moral behavior and methods? Cat says she can't rule, but aside from just not having the support, it's not super clear to me that Anne wouldn't be at best just a competent manager of the bureaucracy, let alone an actual counter-weight the Malicia.
> 
> Where in the world is there any hope for a clean, stable exit for Cat?

>> **u/cyberdsaiyan** [+11]  (3 hours later)
>> 
>> The story's setting up Cordelia to the the anti-cat for the moment. She herself has a lot of pressures but I think she's pretty much the only "good" side person cat can see eye to eye with.

>> **u/earnestadmission** [+2]  *Singular "they" user* (18 hours later)
>> 
>> I think there's a bit of unreliable narration involved in all the scenes with the Lone Swordsman, to be fair.

>> **u/CFCrispyBacon** [+1]  (15 hours later)
>> 
>> The exit would be in rivers of blood until Callow can reach some recovery time, while at the same time using bastardized Praes\-ian bureaucracy to make Callow stable without **anyone** on the throne.  Once Cat doesn't need to rule with an iron fist, Thief can Steal the kingdom from her, and Cat can try and transition her story from "literal royalty" to "power behind the throne" or "figurehead and occasional massacre specialist".  The rest of the world cooperating to let Cat ACTUALLY use her talents instead of scrambling is...doubtful, however.

> **u/paradoxinclination** [+10]  (an hour later)
> 
> Wow, I just realized that Catherine now has a super-powered evil side. I'm going to be extremely disappointed if we don't get at least one scene where she fully unleashes her powers and does some unspeakably badass shit, and then swears never to do that again but is forced to anyways.

>> **u/signeti** [+5]  (2 hours later)
>> 
>> Well she has 14 heroes and two superheroes against her. I believe she will have to go all out at some point and its going to be glorious. I also think such event would be good place to transition into new name.

> **u/haiku_fornification** [+5]  (3 hours later)
> 
> Cat's greatest strength in the upcoming conflict is the fact Callow hasn't pissed in anyone's cereal, which she wants to leverage in a diplomatic solution. This is quite smart as she's at least cordial with the major actors but I don't really see it happening as it is. 
> 
> There needs to be some sort of inciting incident or a greater threat for peace talks to occur. The Dead King, the gnomes or the Everdark - a combination of all of them, maybe.

>> **u/C_Densem** [+1]  *LessWrong (than usual)* (a day later)
>> 
>> Yeah, what's UP with the gnomes? That early stuff with the Red Letter and Black talking about how Calernia is basically the backwaters of the world sort of seems to have gone nowhere. I'd suspect that EE laid that groundwork without having a payoff in mind,but everything else in the story says he knows exactly what kind of story he's telling here.
>> 
>> Wassup with that?

>>> **u/LordGoldenroot** [+2]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> The gnomes sole purpose seems to be keeping the world in medieval stasis which seems like it would be important to the gods if they want the world to continue on being about individual stories. Because of this I suspect they will come up again when/if we learn more about the Gods.

> **u/CouteauBleu** [+5]  *We are the Empire.* (5 hours later)
> 
> Quick question: we know that in the past the Empire had to invade Callow on multiple occasions to compensate for food shortages. So how is it that, if the kingdom was invaded every now and then, they still kept a long-lasting dynasty of Callowan Kings until Amadeus showed up?
> 
> Were the previous invasions never successful enough or long-lasting enough to truly suppress the Fairfaxes beyond their ability to recover?

>> **u/ErraticErrata** [+6]  (a day later)
>> 
>> The Fairfaxes are the second ruling dynasty of Callow, the original founders were the Albans (the most famous of these being the Queen of Blades). As for how they survived in the face of constant invasion, it's a combination of branch families and the very strong story of 'every royal dies except for that underage one, which then proceeds to kick out the hated invader'.

>>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+1]  *We are the Empire.* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> So what's special about the Conquest is that Black was thorough enough to nip any Fairfax resurgence (so far)?
>>> 
>>> Anyway, thanks for the WoG!

>> **u/Oaden** [+5]  (10 hours later)
>> 
>> Basically, you don't need to actually be in the direct family of a royal, to be able to claim you are part of said dynasty. 
>> 
>> Third cousin twice removed? No one better around, no one seems to care, There ya go, You are now a Fairfax. 
>> 
>> So i imagine quite a few of the Praes rulers will have attempted to stamp out the name, but then out of nowhere, some bastard from a orphanage pops up, drags a sword from a stone, and suddenly all of Callow is up in arms chanting "Fairfax!"
>> 
>> At some point the Tyrants probably stopped bothering with trying.

>> **u/None** [+3]  (8 hours later)
>> 
>> Remenber that theres part of callow that were never touched by praes, and even after the conquest when the capital fell the had little direct damage, I think that those very areas had a good portion of the reserves while praes took the food from the sieged cities plus the dead tool let them be  more or less feed for a while.
>> 
>> Edit: Thanks Bot!

>>> **u/CommonMisspellingBot** [+2]  (8 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Hey, MadridFC, just a quick heads-up:  
>>> **remeber** is actually spelled **remember**. You can remember it by **-mem- in the middle**.  
>>> Have a nice day!
>>> 
>>> ^^^^The ^^^^parent ^^^^commenter ^^^^can ^^^^reply ^^^^with ^^^^'delete' ^^^^to ^^^^delete ^^^^this ^^^^comment.

>>>> **u/None** [+1]  (9 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> Good bot

>>>>> **u/GoodBot_BadBot** [+1]  (9 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you, MadridFC, for voting on CommonMisspellingBot.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://goodbot-badbot.herokuapp.com/).  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  ***  
>>>>> 
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>> **u/Out-Of-Context-Bot** [-10]  (5 hours later)
>> 
>> Driving fast to Crush - Pendulum

>>> **u/CouteauBleu** [+4]  *We are the Empire.* (5 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Bad Bot.

>>>> **u/None** [-5]  (5 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> [removed]

>>>>> **u/None** [+1]  (8 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> BEGONE THOT

> **u/Dent7777** [+3]  *House Atreides* (21 hours later)
> 
> I wonder exactly how much concentration of ninjutsu there is in this story. 14 heroes seems like far too many to succeed.

>> **u/werewolf_nr** [+1]  (a day later)
>> 
>> If all 14 dive in at once Cat will wipe the floor with them until Grey and Saint show up to give her an honest fight. If they come in ones and twos it won't be so bad for the heroes.

>>> **u/Dent7777** [+2]  *House Atreides* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> I'm personally worried about some sort of hero-breakout attempt. If you manage to get a half dozen to a dozen heroes through the lines to cause havoc in Callow, I doubt there is much Cat could do.

>>>> **u/werewolf_nr** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> If they caused havoc to the civilians they wouldn't be heroes. And Robber and his band have gotten capable enough to throw monkey wrenches into heroes plans. I wouldn't be surprised if they took out a few weaker ones.

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