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[FF] [hpmor] Unriddle the Riddles

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u/scruiser [+18] CYOA (an hour later)

Impressive story. I had thought the idea of cooperating with Voldemort and Voldemort agreeing to cooperate would stretch my suspension of disbelief too much, but you actually sold me on it perfectly, keeping both Tom Riddles in character and building up to their deal well with just minor shifts from the original story.

u/Sailor_Vulcan [+11] Champion of Justice and Reason (3 hours later)

I want to see what happens next. Please keep writing!

u/Sailor_Vulcan [+10] Champion of Justice and Reason (3 hours later)

Also, I think you should somehow work in the quote from taboo tradeoffs about how utilitarians were allowed to take common sense into account and how real life utilitarians dont actually rob banks to give to the poor. Then say something about how people aren't smarter than their ethics.

Situations where its best to violate your deontological ethical injunctions in order to accomplish greater good are rare, while also being easy to find and hard to check. The exact opposite of P=nP? problems.

One should be extremely skeptical and make absolutely sure that there is no other way before violating one's deontological ethical injunctions. And its almost always more likely that you've made a mistake then that it was really the optimal choice to break your ethics. It would have been a bit more believable if Harry hadn't been so easy to convince to do this.

u/melmonella [+7] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (5 days later)

And then Tom Riddles conquered the whole world, and nobody could stop them, for while one rationalist wizard is certainly overpowered, two of them working in concert is so unfair that even From Software doesn't think it's working as intended.

u/pleasedothenerdful [+2] (4 days later)

Me too!

u/thrawnca [+5] Carbon-based biped (a day later)

I had thought the idea of cooperating with Voldemort and Voldemort agreeing to cooperate would stretch my suspension of disbelief too much,

Coming from Voldemort, sure. But perhaps the real Tom Riddle is completely, utterly, irredeemably evil in an interestingly different fashion from what he was pretending with Voldemort.

u/DuplexFields [+3] New Lunar Republic (7 days later)

An extremely powerful sociopath who is tired of stupid people, not an extremely powerful bigot who loves praise and adoration.

u/None [+12] (5 hours later)

[deleted]

u/melmonella [+10] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (5 hours later)

Good catch. Fixed.

u/pku31 [+5] (7 hours later)

Also, you wrote balefire instead of fyndfire once or twice. Though I'm enough of a WOT fan to kinda prefer this anyway.

Edit: also, pretty great story. Enjoyed it a lot.

u/melmonella [+4] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (7 hours later)

balefire

It is that way in the original. Blame Yudkovsky.

u/SkyTroupe [+6] (16 hours later)

Are you going to rewrite the end too? Because I just read to them stepping out to set their plans in motion and Im craving more.

u/WalterTFD [+4] (3 hours later)

My 'solution' when the original dilemma was posted was in the same direction. That is, the Unbreakable Vow fixes the trust problem, and should allow Harry's believable surrender to Voldemort.

I was less hopeful re: their cooperation, I tended to believe that this was a "maybe the horse will learn to sing", where Harry just set himself to service and hoped that Voldemort's reign wouldn't be so bad, or that someone else would do something.

u/Ristridin1 [+4] (2 days later)

I liked it.

One point that I think should be expanded on is Voldemort accepting the premise that a prophecy has to be fulfilled. He's trying to kill people to stop the prophecy he heard, so at some level, he believes that prophecy can be averted (which is true, as Dumbledore mentions blocking other prophecies of destruction). So why does Voldemort so easily accept that this particular prophecy cannot be stopped? The answer 'it has already been partially fulfilled' seems a bit weak without any evidence that a prophecy has to be completely fulfilled or not at all.

u/melmonella [+2] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (13 days later)

Yeah, that came up when I was planning the story. Ultimately I decided that it would be best to leave that without justification, for two primary reasons.

  • As far as I could find, there is no solid evidence for or against that in the original, other than the way the ending turned out. This means that I'd have to come up with evidence on the spot, which is a pretty bad writing move, and I think would have felt forced. This interpretation wasn't contradicted by anything, so I decided to let it pass.

  • Intuitively, that seems like a more likely consequence of a mechanism that might be behind the prophecy.

Like, say I told you "my world has prophecies" and asked you to come up with a set of models for this world, with their simplicity rated according to Solomonof Induction. The most probable model would probably be "prophecies can't be averted" - you receive a bit string from the future, and then no matter what you do (with the string or otherwise) laws of physics ensure it ends up in the same state as it started when I went back in time. And then whatever mechanism that sends information back in time just sends that string back. This model gets a Bayesian update to pretty much zero probability from Dumbledore saying he averted some prophecies, and from QQ thinking that it's possible to avert prophecies.

The second most probable model, in my opinion, would be "Either the string gets sent back in time, or the negation of the string gets sent back in time" i.e. suppose that in the future the string would be 100110. Now either the past receives 011001(in which case prophecy was averted entirely in this timeline), or 100110 (in which case prophecy was fulfilled in this timeline). This is the second most simple algorithm for prophecies, and the one I went with. It also pretty much means that after you've observed and confirmed the first bit, you know how the other ones will end up.

Finally, you have even more complicated algorithms for prophecy information, such as "any part of the string can be fulfilled or averted, with some complicated relation between them that ensures prophecy still tells you something instead of being effectively white noise". I don't think those are so improbable as to not be worth considering, but they are still less probable on priors.

[Weaker arguments start here]

  • Counterfactually, if it was possible to fulfill a prophecy just in part, QQ would have known about it and said as much. Since he didn't say anything, it's clearly not possible.

  • As I've pointed out above, justifications of this would have felt forced and would have simply drawn more attention to this weak point. Since most people didn't seem to notice it, I feel that my sight deception had been successful.

But yeah, this is probably one of the weakest points of the fic, in my own authorial opinion. Very good catch.

u/vakusdrake [+3] (a day later)

See now I really want to read a sort of alt-universe version of significant digits based on this rewrite of the story.

u/absolute-black [+2] (a day later)

...Now I just wanna reread significant digits. Yay long weekends.

u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (2 days later)

Presumably the Quirrellisation plan will need to be Snapproved as a valid prophecy resolution before they can proceed...

u/Areign [+2] (4 hours later)

very cool approach

u/Cuz_Im_TFK [+2] (16 hours later)

That was very fun. Thanks for that.

u/thrawnca [+2] Carbon-based biped (a day later)

Are you in the market for typos?

u/melmonella [+2] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (a day later)

Sure. I imagine I have quite a few there.

u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (a day later)

There seem to be a lot of cases where the grammar resembles Parseltongue even after they're no longer speaking Parseltongue.

Chapter 1

a fight with Headmaster/a fight with the Headmaster

it can not/it cannot

I hope Dumbledore hadn't/I hope Dumbledore hasn't

What?, said Hufflepuff - the comma is unnecessary and a full stop is missing.

hogwarts/Hogwarts

actions? , said Ravenclaw - the comma is unnecessary and a full stop is missing.

even by my standards, said Slytherin - missing full stop and line break

Brittain/Britain

answered Ravenclaw, - should be a full stop, not a comma

Dark Rationalist isn't/A Dark Rationalist isn't

deciding wherever/deciding whether

gets a magical artifact/gets magical artifact

suggesting?, said Slytherin, - the first comma is unnecessary and the second should be a full stop.

why Professor is/why the Professor is

worth more than lives/worth more than the lives

What?, said Hufflepuff, - the first comma is unnecessary and the second should be a full stop.

a consequentialist you claim to be/the consequentialist you claim to be

Quirinous/Quirinus

you can not/you cannot

out?- said Slytherin - the first hyphen is unnecessary and the second should be a full stop.

function"-"if - missing spaces

Stone?" said Professor Quirrell - missing full stop.

ask for safety of/ask for the safety of

capital?, - the comma is unnecessary

probably should, said Slytherin, - the second comma should be a full stop, and there shouldn't be a line break afterward.

Natural death rate/The natural death rate

that human brain fell into/that the human brain fell into

Consequences of his choices/The consequences of his choices

Just to think,/Just think,

the oath Professor gave/the oath the Professor gave

u/melmonella [+2] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (2 days later)

Stone?" said Professor Quirrell - missing full stop.

Man, that's especially embarrassing, given that I copied it over.

Thanks!

u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (4 days later)

Chapter 2

what professor said/what the professor said

ensure the death is/ensure that death is

Chapter 3

I have preference/I have a preference

distract headmaster/distract the headmaster

sspeech",/sspeech,"

iss true"/iss true,"

scenario stone itself/scenario where the stone itself

hummed "Perhaps/hummed, "Perhaps

the murderer of hundreds possess/the murderer of hundreds, possess

taken hostage the lives of hundreds of hostages - it would be better not to reuse the word "hostage". Maybe "hundreds of students"?

wherever you seem evil/whether you seem evil

chuckled "Well/chuckled, "Well

under normal circumstances, "On my own/under normal circumstances. "On my own

sounded amused "I suppose/sounded amused. "I suppose

Maybe.", said Harry, "Severus/Maybe," said Harry. "Severus

"Explain yourself, boy - this line is supposed to have been hissed, but it doesn't use italics or double 's'.

"Patronus charm/"The Patronus charm

Wizard has to/The wizard has to

should one come." said/should one come," said

Chapter 4

of prisoner's dilemma/of the prisoner's dilemma

from Harry Voldemort had/from Harry, Voldemort had

One horcux/One horcrux (yes, this is in the original - but it's still an error)

wonderful inventive brain/wonderfully inventive brain

chuckled "Are you/chuckled, "Are you

forces himself to grin "Yes/forced himself to grin. "Yes

chuckled "Perhaps./chuckled, "Perhaps.

mirror-Professor/mirror; Professor

accident",/accident,"

level "if/level, "if

Harry said "Why/Harry said, "Why

look very differently/look very different

Harry shrugged "Your/Harry shrugged, "Your

Oh and five,/Oh, and five,

plenty successes/plenty of successes

start of the year by using/start of the year, by using

husbands never cheating is/husbands never cheating, is

so easy to do people/so easy to do that people

behavior/behaviour (HPMoR appears to use British English)

behaviors/behaviours

the thousands years/thousands of years

Discrepancy between/The discrepancy between

this "I assume/this, "I assume

But human mind/But the human mind

not as wholesome/not as unified

hissed "Iss/hissed, "Iss

mission to Azkaban has almost/mission to Azkaban almost

you have not expected/you had not expected

Prophecy seemed to/The prophecy seemed to

professor Quirrell/Professor Quirrell

u/melmonella [+2] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (4 days later)

Nice! More typos!

u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (6 days later)

Chapter 5

if Mirror/if the Mirror (occurs multiple times)

professor Quirrell/Professor Quirrell

Quirrell?", said Harry, - the first comma is unnecessary and the second should be a full stop.

Quirrel/Quirrell (occurs multiple times)

smirked "This/smirked. "This

Quil/Quill

in english alphabet/in the English alphabet

use International/use the International

artefact/artifact (normally it seems to use UK spellings, but this chapter started with "artifact")

said "Well/said, "Well

"Yes"/"Yes."

likely that Headmaster/likely that the Headmaster

Barrier around/The barrier around

force him to waste time/forcing him to waste time

so world would/so the world would

interfere", hissed Harry,/interfere," hissed Harry.

use you as hostage/use you as a hostage

Though unexpected can/Though the unexpected can

Chapter 6

as Circle/as the Circle

Final sacrifice/A final sacrifice

he felt "I wouldn't/he felt. "I wouldn't

chuckled "Are you/chuckled. "Are you

hissed "What/hissed, "What

Chapter 7

eye twitched "Sstop/eye twitched. "Sstop

it's true meaning/its true meaning

right?", said Harry./right?" said Harry.

"Yess." hissed/"Yess," hissed

, fulfillment of the prophecy must/, the fulfillment of the prophecy must

universe?", Harry had/universe?" Harry had

from himself, "I think/from himself. "I think

similar.", Harry smiled,/similar." Harry smiled.

, sun too relies/, the sun too relies

it's output/its output

harry/Harry

and door of/and the door of

opposite of the dead/opposite the dead

alsso.",/alsso."

Then three things/Then the three things

a couple times/a couple of times

"reasoning makes/"your reasoning makes

Unbreakable Oath/Unbreakable Vow

in return "Have/in return, "Have

professor Quirrell/Professor Quirrell (occurs multiple times)

Harry said "The/Harry said, "The

Harry grimaced "I/Harry grimaced. "I

rolled his eyes "Mister/rolled his eyes. "Mister

I?", said Harry,/I?" said Harry.

I can not/I cannot

"Well, little reason/"Well, there is little reason

prophecised/prophesied

if universe itself/if the universe itself

and said "Well/and said, "Well

, sound as cold/, the sound as cold

Harry shrugged "Sorry/Harry shrugged. "Sorry

wherever you want to/whether you want to (occurs multiple times)

Would be a shame/It would be a shame

child",/child,"

catasstrophy/catasstrophe (occurs multiple times)

then hissed "Even if/then hissed, "Even if

Harry shrugged "I am/Harry shrugged. "I am

"Vow doesn't/"The Vow doesn't

sighed "That is/sighed. "That is

shrugged "We should/shrugged. "We should

Quirrel/Quirrell

a couple different ways/a couple of different ways

a couple interpretations/a couple of interpretations

Dark Lord Voldemort was/The Dark Lord Voldemort was

, Unbreakable Vow required/, an Unbreakable Vow required

, one who was taking/, the one who was taking

Sacrificed trust/The sacrificed trust

, magic of the one/, the magic of the one

Magic of the vow-binder/The magic of the vow-binder

Mask of professor Quirrell/The mask of Professor Quirrell

and drama could/and some drama could

like I have mentioned/as I have mentioned

Would immediately put us/This would immediately put us

Brittain/Britain

minutes have swiftly passed/minutes swiftly passed

Dramatic return/The dramatic return

u/melmonella [+3] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (7 days later)

Figures, the chapter I wrote at 4 am has the most typos. Fixed. Many thanks for your work!

u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)

I really, really enjoyed this. Eagerly awaiting more!

u/SansFinalGuardian [+2] (5 days later)

Great story, horrible grammar. I have an urge to go through it all and correct everything.

u/melmonella [+3] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (5 days later)

Thank you! If you do go through it, I'll be very thankful.

u/callmesalticidae [+2] writes worldbuilding books (13 days later)

This is everything I had hoped the original would be. Its fantastic, I love it, thank you for writing it.